EPTSo the entire discussion of “She doesn’t’ look like she could beat him up” is stupid and is being treated as such. Lets not even talk about Rey getting jumped by 3 dudes on Jakku and beating the shit out of all of them. That girl knew how to scrap.
Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Page 185
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
So the entire discussion of “She doesn’t’ look like she could beat him up” is stupid and is being treated as such. Lets not even talk about Rey getting jumped by 3 dudes on Jakku and beating the shit out of all of them. That girl knew how to scrap. | ||
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ZeaL.
United States5955 Posts
On January 15 2016 04:59 trulojucreathrma.com wrote: Didn't I just talk about that? You found Yoda convincing? He was supposed to be physically weak, wise, but strong in the force. Did you see the prequels? Rey barely knew how to use the force. Yoda was supposed to be the 600 year old jedi grandmaster. And we never saw Yoda fight. You think making him beat up Darth Vader would make Darth Vader look badass? Pay attention. I agree with your argument about it being illogical that Rey barely knew how to use the force but you said: On January 15 2016 02:27 trulojucreathrma.com wrote: Well maybe the problem is Kylo Ren losing vs a girl that probably some nerd on TL could beat up irl. which has nothing to do with that. And prequel Yoda was not physically weak. I would argue his fight vs Dooku made both look pretty badass. | ||
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Diavlo
Belgium2915 Posts
On January 15 2016 04:59 trulojucreathrma.com wrote: Didn't I just talk about that? You found Yoda convincing? He was supposed to be physically weak, wise, but strong in the force. Did you see the prequels? Rey barely knew how to use the force. Yoda was supposed to be the 600 year old jedi grandmaster. And we never saw Yoda fight. You think making him beat up Darth Vader would make Darth Vader look badass? Pay attention. You posted that when I was answering you. Yes Yoda is supposed to be strong with the force and he should have been able to fight without swinging a tiny glowstick. But Lucas fucked that concept because he wanted to see the masters fight with sword so he took the stupider road of having the force be some kind of steroid that helps you fight instead of being something beyond the physical. Rey has apparently a lot of force, and little control over it, and she won against someone whose power we don't know. Vader lost to Luke despite having 30+ more years of experience with the force, if you can accept that why can't you accept Rey winning? | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
On January 15 2016 05:12 Diavlo wrote: You posted that when I was answering you. Yes Yoda is supposed to be strong with the force and he should have been able to fight without swinging a tiny glowstick. But Lucas fucked that concept because he wanted to see the masters fight with sword so he took the stupider road of having the force be some kind of steroid that helps you fight instead of being something beyond the physical. Rey has apparently a lot of force, and little control over it, and she won against someone whose power we don't know. Vader lost to Luke despite having 30+ year of experience with the force, if you can accept that why can't you accept Rey winning? Vader was a cripple who couldn't even walk properly, let alone move his arms freely. Luke was trained by Yoda and Obiwan. That's not comparable to a desert world scavenger beating a luke trained sith. | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
On January 15 2016 05:10 ZeaL. wrote: I agree with your argument about it being illogical that Rey barely knew how to use the force but you said: which has nothing to do with that. And prequel Yoda was not physically weak. I would argue his fight vs Dooku made both look pretty badass. So you think goofy fighting makes people look bad ass. Tiny green monkey with a tiny green sword hopping around? Bad ass~ | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 15 2016 05:17 Deathstar wrote: Vader was a cripple who couldn't even walk properly, let alone move his arms freely. Luke was trained by Yoda and Obiwan. That's not comparable to a desert world scavenger beating a luke trained sith. Why? Jedi are not invincible or able to take on legions on their own. They are impressive, but only due to their abilities with the force and cunning. Kylo stopped that blaster bolt earlier in the film, but that just as easily could have ended with his death. These films are getting away from the unstoppable Jedi killing machines that the prequels made and reduced them to characters from Dragon Ball Z, with force power levels. Kylo Ren is powerful, but he was also wounded and not focused due to killing Han. Finn wounded him during the fight because he was messing around. And even then, we don’t know how much Luke trained him. | ||
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Diavlo
Belgium2915 Posts
On January 15 2016 05:17 Deathstar wrote: Vader was a cripple who couldn't even walk properly, let alone move his arms freely. Luke was trained by Yoda and Obiwan. That's not comparable to a desert world scavenger beating a luke trained sith. Are you also trying to say that jedis fights are just about who's the fitest? Yoda was a midget and Obiwan was an old man, count Dooku was an even older man who beat up 2 young jedis alone... Actually in his second fight against Dooku, Anakin says his power has doubled since the last time they met, I'm pretty sure it means he got stronger through the force, not that he has hit the gym. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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trulojucreathrma.com
United States327 Posts
How many women are there in the special forces? Yes, it isn't about being a bodybuilder. Christopher Lee being outpowered by a 4 feet cgi muppet, that would also not impress me. Point is, if you want Kylo Ren to be a badass and establish him as a dangerous villain, you need to do something about that. About all he did was capture that bolt and mind force Poe to divulge all his secrets. Was that enoug and does he only look like a pushover because he took his mask off? When I saw it I liked the scene where he took the mask out and where it became obvious Rey was mentally more powerful and also a force user and took Kylo off guard, then Rey being completely surprised she could read his mind and see that he was scared as well, that was all cool. The moment she used jedi mind trick, one just had to cringe, and all the plot investment they had succesfully made was gone.\ Him not being focussed because he just killed his father, that's just an inference. Him being shot with the bowcaster, that's just put in to make Rey's win less absurd and give those who can really try hard a hook with which they can pull up their suspension of disbelief. I love how you people refuse to argue properly backwards. You say, Rey could beat Kylo because he was shot. You say this like it is a truth of the universe that he is shot, and events unfold from there. They just made that up! On the spot! That he was shot, that he was bleeding, that he needed to punch himself. They didn't need to do that. They deliberately made the story go down that path. Can you people think as a screenwriter for a second, not as a person in the audience the moment it happens? Just try please. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
He clearly tried to convince her to be his student, he didn't wanna "beat her up". Noone seems to give a damn though, all i see is ridiculous statements about the fight without any context at all. The fight gets reduced to powerlevel vs powerlevel when it has a lot of factors going into it. Seems extremely stupid to me to criticize the fight in the way people are doing it for the most part In general i kinda agree with these thoughts: I love how you people refuse to argue properly backwards. You say, Rey could beat Kylo because he was shot. You say this like it is a truth of the universe that he is shot, and events unfold from there. They just made that up! On the spot! That he was shot, that he was bleeding, that he needed to punch himself. They didn't need to do that. They deliberately made the story go down that path. Can you people think as a screenwriter for a second, not as a person in the audience the moment it happens? Just try please. Euh? What is your point even? Because they tried to give us reasons to believe the outcome of the fight it is what exactly? I don't get it. | ||
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trulojucreathrma.com
United States327 Posts
Just put on a prostetic hand. In the Star Wars universe they are just as good. Hey, maybe a red one. But maybe that wasn't received as well by a certain important demographic in the test screening audience. Let's not forget 9 out of 10 movies end the wrong way, both artisticfally and according to the creators, because people must leave the cinema with an upbeat feeling. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 15 2016 05:51 trulojucreathrma.com wrote: The screenwriter could just have written down: "Kylo cuts a suddenly heroic Finn in half, Rey turns on Luke's lightsaber, Kylo cuts off her hand in a second." And go from there either with a kidnapping or whatever. Just put on a prostetic hand. In the Star Wars universe they are just as good. Hey, maybe a red one. This the point where you degrade into someone whining about a movie they didn’t like to people who enjoyed it. Just crying and upset that people won’t agree with you and seem to enjoy the film you didn’t like. Because that is all you have been doing. Do you really expect to change anyone’s mind? Or are you just going to whine more about focus testing and "catering to women with a female lead'? | ||
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CobaltBlu
United States919 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 15 2016 05:55 CobaltBlu wrote: You seem really upset that Ren was beaten by a woman. Glad to see I wasn’t the only one to notice this overtone. | ||
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trulojucreathrma.com
United States327 Posts
On January 15 2016 05:55 CobaltBlu wrote: You seem really upset that Ren was beaten by a woman. No. I am just really happy he took his helmet off. Just countering people who say he is a whimp because he did. If he was one, he was for other reasons. This all started with me and others defending the movie, not attacking it. Again, pay attention. Rey being a bad character, I won that argument 10 pages ago. Also, if you like this movie? Why are you here? You liked it. You have nothing intertesting to say. This is the biggest box office movie ever and I like Star Wars. Why shouldn't it be important enough? Then you don't have to brag about your brother killing Iraqi's while also white knighting someone who is going to be the best paid actress in Hollywood in a while. Her character doesn't need Finn's help. She certainly doesn't need yours. I also like how this movie reaffirms to me that I have superior artistic taste and refinement, I'll gladly admit. That's why I like this probably a bit more than I should. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Edit: White Knighting an actress I don't know and will never meet. We have arrived at full 4chan level arguments. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On January 15 2016 05:12 Diavlo wrote: You posted that when I was answering you. Yes Yoda is supposed to be strong with the force and he should have been able to fight without swinging a tiny glowstick. But Lucas fucked that concept because he wanted to see the masters fight with sword so he took the stupider road of having the force be some kind of steroid that helps you fight instead of being something beyond the physical. Rey has apparently a lot of force, and little control over it, and she won against someone whose power we don't know. Vader lost to Luke despite having 30+ more years of experience with the force, if you can accept that why can't you accept Rey winning? The difference between Luke defeating Darth Vader and Rey defeating Ren: In Episode 4 Luke ran away from Darth Vader and his crowning achievement is not to have gotten blown up by Darth Vaders fighter. In Episode 5 Luke got his ass handed to him. Pun intended. (Too soon?) In Episode 6 Luke wins - barely - after giving in to his anger and his dark side and having done basic training with Yoda. In Episode 8, Rey defeats Ren after... well, holding a Lightsaber for the first time ever. She has never used one until the final fight, it was in Finn's possession all the time while she was in the New Order prison. The only time she came in contact with a Lightsaber before was when she touched it in that cellar and then ran away from it. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
But it was a good Star Wars movie, a good action/adventure movie. It was enjoyable if you know what you can expect from these kind of movies. Context is important. You "winning an argument" shows pretty clear what your attitude is though, completely bonkers  | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Rey uses the lightsaber wrong at the start for the fight. She tries to stab with it like she would with her staff. She runs for most of the fight and Kylo chases her. He keeps trying to disarm her because he wants to take her alive. Once she regains her focus and lets the force guide her, she uses the lightsaber more effectively and manages to hit Kylo. But she still barely overcomes him in the final struggle. Kylo was wounded by both Chewie and Finn before the fight. And we don’t know if that was the first time she held a lightsaber. Rey’s past isn’t known. | ||
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trulojucreathrma.com
United States327 Posts
If Vader doesn't turn, he just gets executed hopelessly without even putting up a fight. I must admit, I was happy after I left the theatre that they didn't turn the female lead right away into a romantic interest. But this is still moot. In the end, she is still young and extremely above average pretty. It is still unthinkable to have a vulnerable mature not so pretty strong female lead in a blockbuster. So don't kid yourself about equality. Rey doesn't use the lightsaber wrong. Stabbing is right( and done by Vader). They just did the wrong choreography because movements need to be exaggerated because Hollywood. There's a reason why after the invention of gunfire and the disapperance of armor, the rapier became the most popular duelling weapon; it was the most efficient. Stabbing is superior to slashing attacks in many respects. Now, you want to see a movie where a fight looks like an Olympic fencing bout? I would. But 99% of the people wouldn't. And their money votes on what happens. By the way, stabbing with a stick is rather pointless, literally. It will be harmless. | ||
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