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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
It doesn't matter if you're the avatar if you're chained. I mean, we all know that in a real fight you want airbending plus one of water/earth depending on the environment. Fire is useless (at least in LoK). This gives you mobility and traps, which are all you need in a fight. Kuvira can't airbend but is quite agile and excels at the other part. I would favor her in a fight versus Toph depending on whether Toph can neutralize Kuvira's metalbending. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On November 30 2014 03:12 Hyperbola wrote: Korra uses Avatar state to win a race with a five year-old + Show Spoiler + Aang uses Avatar state to stop an invading army + Show Spoiler + Aang didn't learn to go into the Avatar state until the end of Season 3, and then he promptly lost it until the very last episode. Korra could enter it at will at the end of Season 1, and only lost it in specific episodes, so of course she uses it for more mundane things throughout the series. Aang probably would've done that as well...probably would've been more likely to play around with it. | ||
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Hyperbola
United States2551 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Korra in Avatar state getting destroyed by Zaheer, an old shmuck who only recently got his powers + Show Spoiler + | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
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Fleetfeet
Canada2683 Posts
On November 30 2014 03:12 Hyperbola wrote: Korra uses Avatar state to win a race with a five year-old + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKqOqyiIo8w Aang uses Avatar state to stop an invading army + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cI5lnkFKS4 Watch the second half of your "Aang destroying a temple" thing, which gives you some damn fine reasons why an Avatar with no past lives might be weaker than one with all of them. But even so, it's not set up to show the avatar state as a trifling matter. It's still obviously real powerful. | ||
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Hyperbola
United States2551 Posts
On November 30 2014 03:32 Fleetfeet wrote: Watch the second half of your "Aang destroying a temple" thing, which gives you some damn fine reasons why an Avatar with no past lives might be weaker than one with all of them. But even so, it's not set up to show the avatar state as a trifling matter. It's still obviously real powerful. The problem isn't that the past lives were erased. The problem is that Korra is the most incompetent Avatar in history. Worst personality and the least amount of talent. Aang could have defeated Unalaq, Amon and Zaheer without breaking a sweat. Korra is simply a third-rate bender that screwed the entire world up by: a. deleting her past lives b. merging the spirit and corporeal world c. indirectly creating Kuvira Not only does she lack any sort of bending talent, she also has the personality and intelligence of someone half her age. Korra is without a shred of doubt the worst character in the entire series. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On November 30 2014 03:37 Hyperbola wrote: The problem isn't that the past lives were erased. The problem is that Korra is the most incompetent Avatar in history. Worst personality and the least amount of talent. Aang could have defeated Unalaq, Amon and Zaheer without breaking a sweat. Korra is simply a third-rate bender that screwed the entire world up by: a. deleting her past lives b. merging the spirit and corporeal world c. indirectly creating Kuvira Not only does she lack any sort of bending talent, she also has the personality and intelligence of someone half her age. Korra is without a shred of doubt the worst character in the entire series. Aang almost ended the Avatar cycle himself, twice. Once because it took him a minute to go into the Avatar state willingly, and got shot in the back when he was a sitting duck. And the other time because he was willing to risk the entire Avatar cycle, and the entire Earth Kingdom, because he didn't want to kill someone who was literally scorching an entire continent. | ||
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
Korra is obviously not a third rater bender, she is very gifted bender and fighter. The situations Korra faced were not straight forward war situations like in TLA they were morally complex so Korra struggled to deal with them. If Korra was put into the TLA situation Sozin would have never killed all the Air Nomads. Aang was kind and sensitive, but also very timid and ran away dooming his entire people and then the world faced 100 years of war. Korra leaving the portals open was not a mistake, it did both good and bad things. Losing her past lives was a failure, but Aang almost lost his past lives when he was mortally wounded by Azula covered in "Escape from the Spirit World" and if he had died would have ended the Avatar line completely. | ||
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Hyperbola
United States2551 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On November 30 2014 03:50 Hyperbola wrote: There's a pretty huge difference between almost fucking up entirely and actually fucking up entirely. In the grand scheme of things Aang united the world and brought peace and prosperity while Korra destabilized the world and polluted cities with spirit flora and fauna. Though I'm glad we agree that Korra is the worst thing to ever happen to this series. Well, Aang also let the Airbenders go almost extinct (except himself), let the fire nation take over Ba Sing Se, let the Moon get killed... Difference between the series is that in TLA, everyone was begging Aang to save the world and he spent most of the series running away. LoK, Korra wants to be the world-saving Avatar, but the world's trying to move beyond relying on her. | ||
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Hyperbola
United States2551 Posts
In regards to Basing sei and the moon, Aang was actually in no position to do anything about it. In one case, the country had already destroyed itself from within with corruption and a weak leadership and in the other case he was in the spirit world and unable to do anything. In any case, neither failure is his own. All of Korra's failures are completely her own 100%. She is beyond redemption. The objectively best thing she could do right now is kill herself and reincarnate as a new Avatar. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
Zhao vs Amon. Zhao couldn't beat Zuko while Amon was probably the most powerful bender in the entire show. The equalists were much better at outplaying their military opponents than Zhao's fleet. Long Feng vs. Unalaq. Pretty much no contest here. Corrupt politicians, one with the power to summon an evil god. Team Azula vs. Team Zaheer. Both sneaky and powerful but one had a pretty clear advantage in terms of raw power. Ozai vs. Kuvira. Pretty even I would say. Just different styles. Frankly they both seem to have gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to being avatars. Kyoshi and Roku etc. had their most memorable struggles in their prime years. But Korra is far from underwhelming, she just has more powerful opponents. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On November 30 2014 04:02 Hyperbola wrote: Funny you mention that. It's arguable that if Aang didn't run away then he'd have been killed by Sozin and his comet. At the time he only knew one element and had no concept of the Avatar state so he would have probably been destroyed. On the contrary, Korra, with all 4 elements and the avatar state lost to Unalaq, a no-name waterbender without any real army. In regards to Basing sei and the moon, Aang was actually in no position to do anything about it. In one case, the country had already destroyed itself from within with corruption and a weak leadership and in the other case he was in the spirit world and unable to do anything. In any case, neither failure is his own. All of Korra's failures are completely her own 100%. She is beyond redemption. The objectively best thing she could do right now is kill herself and reincarnate as a new Avatar. Aang only knew one element when he was 12. Korra knew three when she was like...6. Unalaq with Vaatu was also magnitudes more powerful than anyone Aang ever had to face. Zuko was an above average firebender at most, Azula was one of the best firebenders in the world but still just a normal human, and Ozai was probably less skilled than Azula but had the comet (which Aang also had). Korra also faces villains who actually understand the Avatar's power, and specifically target the Avatar state. Aang only faced villains who faced him head-on and lost the instant he went into the Avatar state. | ||
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Hyperbola
United States2551 Posts
On November 30 2014 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote: Aang only knew one element when he was 12. Korra knew three when she was like...6. Unalaq with Vaatu was also magnitudes more powerful than anyone Aang ever had to face. Zuko was an above average firebender at most, Azula was one of the best firebenders in the world but still just a normal human, and Ozai was probably less skilled than Azula but had the comet (which Aang also had). Korra also faces villains who actually understand the Avatar's power, and specifically target the Avatar state. Aang only faced villains who faced him head-on and lost the instant he went into the Avatar state. Right. And then when Korra was 18 she was still far less skilled than Aang was when he was 12 and defeated Ozai. That's even worse for her. She had all of this natural talent and let it all completely go to waste. Maybe she was dropped on her head when she was younger? Maybe she's just mentally challenged? It would explain a few things. In regards to Vaatu and Unalaq: first of all that shit would never have happened if Aang had been around. Secondly, the giant mega demon is probably still less powerful than comet Ozai. Comet Ozai was literally scorching the entire continent. The stupid Vaatu demon could shoot a pathetic lazer beam that did basically no damage. Putting my thoughts on the stupidity of that season aside, are you seriously saying that Aang couldn't absolutely destroy the retard demon? I'd argue that Aang wouldn't even need deus ex machina powers from the cosmic tree or whatever to wipe the floor with a stupid kite like that. Korra completely lost in that fight and would have basically doomed the entire world if Jinora hadn't saved her. That's just plain embrarassing. Jinora should have merged with Rava and become the next avatar. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On November 30 2014 04:38 Hyperbola wrote: Right. And then when Korra was 18 she was still far less skilled than Aang was when he was 12 and defeated Ozai. That's even worse for her. She had all of this natural talent and let it all completely go to waste. Maybe she was dropped on her head when she was younger? Maybe she's just mentally challenged? It would explain a few things. In regards to Vaatu and Unalaq: first of all that shit would never have happened if Aang had been around. Secondly, the giant mega demon is probably still less powerful than comet Ozai. Comet Ozai was literally scorching the entire continent. The stupid Vaatu demon could shoot a pathetic lazer beam that did basically no damage. Putting my thoughts on the stupidity of that season aside, are you seriously saying that Aang couldn't absolutely destroy the retard demon? I'd argue that Aang wouldn't even need deus ex machina powers from the cosmic tree or whatever to wipe the floor with a stupid kite like that. Korra completely lost in that fight and would have basically doomed the entire world if Jinora hadn't saved her. That's just plain embrarassing. Jinora should have merged with Rava and become the next avatar. Aang's entire storyline is Deus Ex Machina. Northern Water Tribe gets invaded. Get pissed off, activate Avatar State without meaning to, wipe out entire army instantly. One normal firebender kicking his butt despite having the exact same fire bending buff. Randomly get hit on a specific point on his back, go into Avatar State without meaning to, instantly become overpowered and curbstomp. Doesn't want to kill anyone. Randomly given Energy Bending by Lion Turtle. At least in LoK, the villains actually have A) powers Korra doesn't have, B) take people hostage, or C) weaken her beforehand. TLA, all the villains are basically like "I'm more powerful than the Avatar", and then "Surprise, you're not". | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
Similarly, Zaheer's finishing ability is powerful enough he is favored vs Korra, she just wins again because she's the protagonist and has immunity. It's a kids show, you can't really base power levels on the outcomes of fights because the good guys always win. These shows are not documentaries. | ||
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
On November 30 2014 04:38 Hyperbola wrote: Right. And then when Korra was 18 she was still far less skilled than Aang was when he was 12 and defeated Ozai. That's even worse for her. She had all of this natural talent and let it all completely go to waste. Maybe she was dropped on her head when she was younger? Maybe she's just mentally challenged? It would explain a few things. In regards to Vaatu and Unalaq: first of all that shit would never have happened if Aang had been around. Secondly, the giant mega demon is probably still less powerful than comet Ozai. Comet Ozai was literally scorching the entire continent. The stupid Vaatu demon could shoot a pathetic lazer beam that did basically no damage. Putting my thoughts on the stupidity of that season aside, are you seriously saying that Aang couldn't absolutely destroy the retard demon? I'd argue that Aang wouldn't even need deus ex machina powers from the cosmic tree or whatever to wipe the floor with a stupid kite like that. Korra completely lost in that fight and would have basically doomed the entire world if Jinora hadn't saved her. That's just plain embrarassing. Jinora should have merged with Rava and become the next avatar. Pretty sure Hyperbola is trolling. Eh, I'll humor him anyway. Aang was one of the most powerful Avatars, likely more powerful than Roku but not as powerful as Kyoshi. I will also agree that his Avatar State was more powerful than Korra's. Though I strongly suspect that this season will end with an awesome display of power by Korra. Either way, the less powerful Avatar State we see in LoK is a result of Nickelodeon ordering more Books, when only one was planned. They had to make do and come up with scenarios where, unlike in TLA, Korra couldn't just "glow it up" to crush her foes. Anyway... Aang had to deal with fairly straightforward issues, with the one exception being Long Feng. That part was more tricky due to Long Feng's deceitful behaviour and so on. However, the rest was really free of any moral dilemma. On the other hand, Korra has had to deal with: - The sense of inequality growing amongst non-benders. A real, legitimate issue Aang never even had to think about. - The spirit of darkness. Come on, Harmonic Convergence is a huge, huge deal, and only Korra and Wan went through it. Korra is essentially the first Avatar to go through Harmonic Convergence, seeing as Wan became the Avatar during the one prior to that. - A group of four talented, awesome benders with a very legitimate purpose, given the state of politics in the Avatar universe. Zaheer is not "an old schmuk who just got his bending". It's quite apparent from the first time we see him that he's a top-tier bender, close to being a real master. Tenzin seemed to be a league above Zaheer, but Zaheer didn't get completely destroyed either during their 1v1, seeing as he was trying to stall him. The guy learned to fly for crying out loud, and could bend the breath out of one's lungs. - Kuvira. Kuvira is in no way a "second-rate bender". She moves nimbly, wastes virtually no effort, and strikes precisely every time she bends. Just rewatch her power display from the first episode: each "bending stroke" takes out one opponent. She uses a very advanced and creative form of bending, and she's obviously a fighter of tremendous skill. She's also a competent leader and has thousands of people following her and cheering for her. She's not the outright and one-dimensional villain Ozai was. - Lots, lots, and I mean lots, of moral dilemmas. Try and tell me Aang wouldn't have opened the Spirit Portal with Unalaq threatening Jinora's life. He would have done it for sure. I'm not even sure he would have distrusted Unalaq either. Someone willing to give Ozai a chance would give Unalaq the benefit of the doubt, at the very least. I'm also fairly sure Aang would have had real trouble facing another airbender. Also, and most importantly, Korra has managed to accomplish what Aang never could: she restored the Air Nation. You say opening the portals was a mistake, but it's generally accepted that it is thanks to that (and Harmonic Convergence) that random people were given airbending. Without that, the Air Nation would still be limited to Tenzin's family. Korra gave life to Aang's biggest dream. I can only imagine how much praise he would give her for that, and rightfully so. All in all, Korra is in no way the worst Avatar. The worst Avatar would probably either be that waterbending guy (Kuruk?) who didn't have anything to do during his life time, and lost the love of his life to Koh. Roku is also a strong pretender to the title, what with having done nothing for 20 years and letting Sozin live to let the Hundread Year War happen. On the other hand, Korra has helped restore balance to the world more than any other Avatar has since before the war, mostly because she brought back the Air Nation, as mentioned earlier. Korra's struggles are simply far more complex than Aang, and her journey reflects that. Honestly, Aang was morally devastated when he lost Appa, can you take a second to imagine what he would have been like if he had to deal with Amon taking his bending away, or a fellow airbender killing a queen? Anyway. It's your opinion. To each their own. But don't go giving links to YouTube videos to compare bending feats performed in the Avatar State by Korra and Aang, when it's obvious that the Avatar State itself was made weaker in LoK for story-telling purposes. That's just non-sense. | ||
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Hyperbola
United States2551 Posts
On November 30 2014 05:29 Spaylz wrote: Anyway. It's your opinion. To each their own. But don't go giving links to YouTube videos to compare bending feats performed in the Avatar State by Korra and Aang, when it's obvious that the Avatar State itself was made weaker in LoK for story-telling purposes. That's just non-sense. No. See, that's not an argument. A world has internal consistency. You can't just say "she's weaker because the creators decided it to be that way." She's weaker because she's talentless and dimwitted. The facts are such: 1. Aang saved the world from destruction and started an age of prosperity. 2. Korra threw the world into chaos and started an age of strife. These are facts, inarguable. Based on these facts Korra is a horrible Avatar, character and person. You can clarify all you want with technicalities but the larger picture remains the same. I stand by my statement that the objectively best thing Korra can do is kill herself and reincarnate into someone more competent. | ||
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
Kyoshi once split off a piece of a continent and turned it into an island... That was probably just done for storytelling purposes. Age plays a part, but only as far as physical abilities go. The Avatar when able to control their state uses their own fighting style and can bend much better. When they don't fully control the state, as with Aang several timies, they're controlled more by a primal force. Aang often didn't remember anything from being in the state. When they do control the state, they use their own fighting style and bending knowledge. It is a TV show, nothing has to be based in logic and powers can change from one episode to the next. The source of the power can get retconned. Compared to other animations like Dragon Ball or Naruto, I think Korra manages power pretty well. At least they don't have the Ginyu force losing to Tien and Yamcha. @Hyperbola, you sound very angry. I don't understand why. No one provoked you. | ||
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