|
On December 15 2014 07:05 tehh4ck3r wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2014 06:43 Skyro wrote:
Carry gyro is all about flak cannon. Neither crit nor mini-bash transfers over to flak cannon, and while Daedalus isn't significantly worse than MKB, MKB gives more raw damage, is slightly cheaper, and also gives a slight AS boost. Also IIRC true strike does transfer over to flak cannon, but flak cannon hits aren't supposed to be able to be evaded (via DotA1). So I'm not sure if this is still the case and if so if it was even ever confirmed a bug or not in DotA2.
Also generally speaking even if you are itemizing for DPS, Daedalus is not typically built as your first DPS item. The inflection point of where Daedalus starts to outdamage MKB is ~160 damage (before purchase), which typically means Daedalus is better served as your 2nd DPS item. For Gyro in particular, once you get to the point where you are considering your 2nd DPS item, you're probably going to favor Rapier. At level 16 with 1 point in stats & all other abilities maxed, with phase aquila BKB and helm gyro has 171-181 damage per autoattack which is a fair bit above the ~160 dmg threshold you gave.
160 damage is a rough rule of thumb for the DPS itemization decision b/w Daedalus or MKB in general, not for gyro in particular. Gyro flak cannons benefit more from the higher base DMG and atk spd, plus the utility of minibash and true strike will typically outweigh any small single target DPS difference. Daed is not often built on gyro at all, even after mkb, with BFly being commonly built.
|
When I still played carry gyro when that was popular I preferred abyssal over mkb usually. Its slightly higher damage and its hp helped gyro a lot imo, and not to mention the bkb piercing stun, which was very useful vs melee carries like lifestealer.
|
On December 15 2014 08:40 juracule wrote:
When I still played carry gyro when that was popular I preferred abyssal over mkb usually. Its slightly higher damage and its hp helped gyro a lot imo, and not to mention the bkb piercing stun, which was very useful vs melee carries like lifestealer.
TBH if your gyro is in range to get abyssal active off & doesn't die then the fight was probably already won
|
On December 15 2014 09:02 tehh4ck3r wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2014 08:40 juracule wrote:
When I still played carry gyro when that was popular I preferred abyssal over mkb usually. Its slightly higher damage and its hp helped gyro a lot imo, and not to mention the bkb piercing stun, which was very useful vs melee carries like lifestealer. TBH if your gyro is in range to get abyssal active off & doesn't die then the fight was probably already won
I think the idea is you get it vs melee carries--you don't try to get in range to use abyssal active--you use it defensively when their naix/slark/etc. jumps you.
Still it's significantly more expensive than MKB--I'd be willing to bet MKB gives significantly more dps/cost considering the attack speed.
|
Yes Abyssal is significantly less cost efficient. Even if your concern was meele DPS it is hard for me to imagine a scenario where BFly would not be preferred unless they have both BKB and MKB already. Plus Flak Cannon let's you stay pretty far in the backlines if you have any target close by like a creep or minion. Also with BKB, Rocket Barrage, and Call Down Gyro is not exactly the easiest hero to just chase down.
|
oh i always thought mini stun proc'd in flak cannon. go figure
|
I cringe in most pub games where Gyro goes for Agh scepter. Except for that one game where Aghs gyro was actually useful against Faceless void. When void chronos and activates Mask of Madness, you can just blow him up or bring him really low with the perfect call down. Could be a useful pocket strat for pros? What do you guys think?
|
I would almost always get abyssal over daed on gyro because I value having that extra utility over slightly better flak damage.
|
Flak doesn't crit, either.
And the MKB vs. Abyssal vs. Daedalus discussion is missing an important side point; one of Gyrocopter's potential timings is upgraded boots + Aquilla + Demon Edge (then BKB, then the rest of the first major damage item), and Abyssal builds can't do that.
|
On December 15 2014 15:58 Buckyman wrote:
Flak doesn't crit, either.
And the MKB vs. Abyssal vs. Daedalus discussion is missing an important side point; one of Gyrocopter's potential timings is upgraded boots + Aquilla + Demon Edge (then BKB, then the rest of the first major damage item), and Abyssal builds can't do that.
Why not just get a 3800 instead of 2400
|
Cheaper and most of the time you get it for rapier or MKB. Sometimes even a Daedalus. Abyssal Blade is niche on him.
I don't swear by Demon Edge builds because sometimes I get BKB into butterfly instead of MKB but it's a solid suggestion before you take Rosh and then upgrade rapier ASAP.
|
On December 15 2014 15:58 Buckyman wrote:
Flak doesn't crit, either.
And the MKB vs. Abyssal vs. Daedalus discussion is missing an important side point; one of Gyrocopter's potential timings is upgraded boots + Aquilla + Demon Edge (then BKB, then the rest of the first major damage item), and Abyssal builds can't do that.
you can get basher instead of demon edge, which gives you 6 less damage in return for 6 more strength and also has an easier build up. Also gives you unreliable bash.
|
Again, or you can get the Demon's Edge, get Roshan's aegis and upgrade to Rapier and use its synergy well with Flak cannon to win games.
|
On December 15 2014 19:02 evanthebouncy! wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2014 15:58 Buckyman wrote:
Flak doesn't crit, either.
And the MKB vs. Abyssal vs. Daedalus discussion is missing an important side point; one of Gyrocopter's potential timings is upgraded boots + Aquilla + Demon Edge (then BKB, then the rest of the first major damage item), and Abyssal builds can't do that. Why not just get a 3800 instead of 2400
Because the relic would happen 2-3 minutes later, and slow down the BKB by the same amount. This generally means the opponent has a timing window where Gyro can't fight well.
|
SoCal8910 Posts
On December 15 2014 19:52 juracule wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2014 15:58 Buckyman wrote:
Flak doesn't crit, either.
And the MKB vs. Abyssal vs. Daedalus discussion is missing an important side point; one of Gyrocopter's potential timings is upgraded boots + Aquilla + Demon Edge (then BKB, then the rest of the first major damage item), and Abyssal builds can't do that. you can get basher instead of demon edge, which gives you 6 less damage in return for 6 more strength and also has an easier build up. Also gives you unreliable bash.
but basher is an unnatural build into something that is niche on the hero.
while I agree, the 6 str helps, gyro is at his core a glass cannon. the 6 str will not be more valuable than blowing everyone up in a team fight with an item that builds from your demon edge. also consider that he gets no attack speed from that build too, something you can get out of your eventual mkb.
|
The +15 extra attack speed really isn't all that important on gyro due to the limited number of flak shots. You are getting those flak shots off anyhow during the duration of BKB. After that you just become a ranged creep without a steroid. Neither is the magic damage proc from MKB all that relevant. So essentially you are getting MKB for 88 damage and the sure-fire hits.
Really you might as well get basher + demon edge for equal gold.
+6 str +86 dmg +unreliable bash vs true strike (which wont be relevant at early timings) +88 dmg +15 attack speed +magic damage procs
The former build leaves your build far more open-ended (abyssal is an item you will want to have anyway when 6-slotted)- and can prevent people from building evasion without having to build mkb itself, allowing you to build rapier faster if needed.
|
Is support Gyro still a thing?
|
On December 16 2014 11:15 Just_a_Moth wrote:
Is support Gyro still a thing?
Not really a thing. But that doesnt mean it's terrible, he can make an OK support. Although you do suffer a lot as support later in the game when you cant run close to people to rocket barrage and missiles are easily dealt with. But against unprepared enemies an early boots gyro can do some work during laning.
|
Unless you value the flexibility that highly, basher or crystalys outperform Demon Edge overall. Hell, even Yasha, Maelstrom, or MoM would in certain situations.
|
SoCal8910 Posts
I see why you would get basher, but I would argue that abyssal over crits would be better in most situations because you only get crits from the main target and the majority of your damage late comes from flak cannon due to its range.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
