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On June 11 2014 17:56 Torte de Lini wrote:
whenever I get Gyrocopter, I try to get Phase, Drums, BKB and then MKB; but I find I always lack the necessary time to reach MKB. If I go MKB before BKB; it really hurts me as well.
I can never seem to get the timing down for him.
Maybe drums is your problem. Get a casual ogre if you want HP. Get Dom to stack ancients. Don't delay everything by an unnecessary 1.8k gold.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
Eh, what about 6th slot refresher? Assuming you get it around lvl23 after bkb-mkb-satanic-bfly-bots it makes similar impact as rapier damage-wise, while being a safer option in either case and actually makes 4 second bkb not that bad in rare engagements that are usually characteristic for lategame.
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I'm going to need some justification for the statement "Refresher makes similar impact to rapier damage-wise"
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On June 12 2014 02:36 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'm going to need some justification for "Refresher makes similar impact to rapier damage-wise"
it would if you/enemy heroes dont die and just take the double flak cannon over 10s. but how often does that happen
and how is the game not over when a gyro has all those items... there are rarely even pub games where both team are herping and cant do anything to each other.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 12 2014 02:36 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'm going to need some justification for the statement "Refresher makes similar impact to rapier damage-wise"
Double flak cannon with 350 damage > single flak cannon with 610 damage, assuming you attack quickly enough for your double bkb not to run out during it. Obviously, that is assuming that fights happen not more often than each 160 seconds.
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after doing 2K phys dmg in 1k aoe u prolly don't need to do any more aoe damage.
Now bump it to 3.6K dmg in an aoe and you definitely don't need to refresh flak lol. At that point all thats left is the enemy carry(s) and another flak is far less relevant than pure dmg.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 12 2014 02:44 Sn0_Man wrote:
after doing 2K phys dmg in 1k aoe u prolly don't need to do any more aoe damage.
Now bump it to 3.6K dmg in an aoe and you definitely don't need to refresh flak lol. At that point all thats left is the enemy carry(s) and another flak is far less relevant than pure dmg.
Ghost scepter, anyone?
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A) Ghost sceptre sucks ass vs gyro you are very likely to die in the ghost sceptre anyway
B) Rapier is still more damage so... its still better as I've been saying.
I mean, doing the same damage half as fast is a LOT worse, and thats before you factor in all the other things.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 12 2014 02:56 Sn0_Man wrote:
A) Ghost sceptre sucks ass vs gyro you are very likely to die in the ghost sceptre anyway
B) Rapier is still more damage so... its still better as I've been saying.
I mean, doing the same damage half as fast is a LOT worse, and thats before you factor in all the other things.
Other things like? For all i know refresher provides an x2 button on everything gyro has, be it double bkb, double satanic, double missle (it is actually annoying), double calldown or double flak.
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Refresher is a good choice, mainly because his ulti and flak are good enough to be used twice. Also more importantly, you get to use bkb twice so you don't get fucked by halberd. You get rfo late game on Luna for the very same reason.
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It ain't even worth the cast animation of casting missile until you've blown all ur flak charges IMO (unless you cast before shit really gets real). Double satanic is pretty irrelevant. Double BKB is the only relevant part, and as mentioned its better to just kill them in ur first bkb than to half kill them in ur first bkb and half kill them in ur 2nd plus having 2 bkb charges is heavily offset by having to fight only when u have refresher up.
Meanwhile doing 600 damage per hit is so fucking much better than 350 in single-target fights which are quite important since its safe to say if u have 30K networth and haven't won, at least one baddie is gonna be pretty jacked.
On June 12 2014 03:13 DucK- wrote:
Refresher is a good choice, mainly because his ulti and flak are good enough to be used twice. Also more importantly, you get to use bkb twice so you don't get fucked by halberd. You get rfo late game on Luna for the very same reason.
I'm quite certain that luna refresher also isn't terribly attractive
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 12 2014 03:16 Sn0_Man wrote:It ain't even worth the cast animation of casting missile until you've blown all ur flak charges IMO (unless you cast before shit really gets real). Double satanic is pretty irrelevant. Double BKB is the only relevant part, and as mentioned its better to just kill them in ur first bkb than to half kill them in ur first bkb and half kill them in ur 2nd plus having 2 bkb charges is heavily offset by having to fight only when u have refresher up. Meanwhile doing 600 damage per hit is so fucking much better than 350 in single-target fights which are quite important since its safe to say if u have 30K networth and haven't won, at least one baddie is gonna be pretty jacked. Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 03:13 DucK- wrote:
Refresher is a good choice, mainly because his ulti and flak are good enough to be used twice. Also more importantly, you get to use bkb twice so you don't get fucked by halberd. You get rfo late game on Luna for the very same reason. I'm quite certain that luna refresher also isn't terribly attractive
While missile part is arguable, double satanic is pretty darn relevant if you are up against someone who can deal with 1st satanic charge and just return fight to terms it began at via be it his own satanic/reincarnation/time lapse/getting illuminated with wisp tethered in. And doing 600 damage per hit is not much better than 350 in teamfight if the end some random supports just end up ghosting your whole flak out and suddenly gyro's carry ability is lower than that of venge with same items.
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Go farm 30K gold on a venge and get back to me
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 12 2014 03:31 Sn0_Man wrote:
Go farm 30K gold on a venge and get back to me
I could name potm with similar amount of success.
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On June 12 2014 03:35 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 03:31 Sn0_Man wrote:
Go farm 30K gold on a venge and get back to me I could name potm with similar amount of success.
This isnt about who outcarries who its about how you itemize gyro and why refresher is hilariously dumb. Trying to say that venge outcarries a gyro once he's used flak is obtuse, just like the rest of your arguments.
Besides, potms only damage advantage over a gyro is range and 32 ias from leap but she's down 5 agi so its pretty even.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 12 2014 03:41 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 03:35 lolfail9001 wrote:On June 12 2014 03:31 Sn0_Man wrote:
Go farm 30K gold on a venge and get back to me I could name potm with similar amount of success. This isnt about who outcarries who its about how you itemize gyro and why refresher is hilariously dumb. Trying to say that venge outcarries a gyro once he's used flak is obtuse, just like the rest of your arguments. Besides, potms only damage advantage over a gyro is range and 32 ias from leap but she's down 5 agi so its pretty even.
My point is that outside of flak cannon gyro is rather mediocre carry wise, and if enemy supports in backline (aka the supposed victims of it) find a way to wait out ~3-4 seconds of 1st flak cannon shots while not losing on their own effectiveness, gyro could be swapped with just about any agi carry. Refresher allows you to circumvent that, considering that i personally know 0 ways to be invulnerable to flak cannon shots for 8 seconds while not being disabled yourself (think euls, banishes). Rapier does not. Obviously rapier is better choice in most cases, but saying refresher is dumb lacks reasoning.
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On June 12 2014 02:56 Sn0_Man wrote:
A) Ghost sceptre sucks ass vs gyro you are very likely to die in the ghost sceptre anyway
B) Rapier is still more damage so... its still better as I've been saying.
I mean, doing the same damage half as fast is a LOT worse, and thats before you factor in all the other things.
ghost is VERY good vs gyro. Its easy to pop it once you see flak slowly flying at you, and gyro cant just not attack for 5 seconds in a teamfight and wait you out...
Then you have no flak for 30 seconds and that support on the edge of the fight will get to cycle all his spells twice during that time
Late game his ult is an alright spell but flak is 90% of his identity. If when its countered by a 1600 item per hero you start to wonder why you picked him. Gyro sucks at manfighting so you really need flak to fuck everyone but their fat carry up so your team can pile on top of him.
I never thought of getting a refresher but it seems pretty legit. Even if you get a rapier first I think refresher > 2nd rapier. Getting a 1st rapier is probably better because at that point you can manfight and kill bases fast
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United States47024 Posts
If you get to the point where you have one Rapier, that 6th slot is gonna be Aegis or Cheese, not Rapier or Refresher, lol.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 12 2014 04:37 TheYango wrote:
If you get to the point where you have one Rapier, that 6th slot is gonna be Aegis or Cheese, not Rapier or Refresher, lol.
Unless you are XBOCT
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On June 12 2014 04:37 TheYango wrote:
If you get to the point where you have one Rapier, that 6th slot is gonna be Aegis or Cheese, not Rapier or Refresher, lol.
what if its a comeback 6slot and you dont have rosh control, that's not an uncommon situation (among 6slot situations)
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EPT
