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Lalalaland34490 Posts
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/e/e1/Gyrocopter_Large.png) Gyrocopter
After serving through a lifetime of wars, upheaval, riots, and revolutions, the brass figured Aurel had seen enough. But in addition to a few trinkets and his considerable pension, the erstwhile engineer left with something far more interesting: a long-forgotten, incomplete schematic for a Gyrocopter, the world's first manned, non-magical flying device. Retiring to the tropical obscurity of the Ash Archipelago with little else but time and money, he set to work building the device. As the years wore on and the remains of failed prototypes began to pile up, he began to wonder if mechanical flight was even possible. A decade and a day after his retirement, on a sunny afternoon with a southerly breeze, Aurel sat in his latest attempt bristling with indignation and expectant failure. With a grunt of effort he pulled the ignition cord and covered his head, waiting for the inevitable explosion. However to his great surprise he began to lift and, following a few panicked adjustments, stabilize. Within an hour, he was ducking and weaving with the breeze, level with the gulls, and Aurel found himself filled with the breathless wonder of flight. As dusk settled in he set a course back to his workshop, but no sooner had he turned his craft when a cannonball tore through his tailfin. Disentangling himself from the wreckage, he swam toward the nearest piece of land in sight, and cursed to see the ship responsible for the cannonball collecting the debris. Days later, when Aurel returned to his workshop, he set to work on yet another gyrocopter, this one capable of carrying a much heavier, more dangerous payload.
For abilities, stats, and other information, visit this hero's Liquipedia page here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Gyrocopter
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So guys... did you try this hero mid with max homing missile ? It's hilariously strong against everything except a few heroes.
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United States47024 Posts
Max missile has always been strong in solo lanes. It's rare for a single hero to have enough attack speed to kill the missle early game, even before the hits required was buffed.
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What's your favourite build for mid Gyro ? I like to go for the classic BKB -> MKB build with just a bottle added to it.
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going bkb into mkb blindly seems pretty bad. all builds should be according to how the game is going.
bottle is a must have on mid gyro. the hero has fast ms and stupidly strong solo kill potential if the opponent tries for the rune or have supports guarding.
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On June 11 2014 02:54 HighTimeDotA wrote:
going bkb into mkb blindly seems pretty bad. all builds should be according to how the game is going.
bottle is a must have on mid gyro. the hero has fast ms and stupidly strong solo kill potential if the opponent tries for the rune or have supports guarding.
? It's not "blind".
It's like saying that going Bfury -> Manta Style on AM is pretty bad because all builds should be chosen according to how the game is going.
I think BKB -> MKB is the standard for Gyrocopter, it gives you survivability and a lot of damage. It's obvious that if the enemy has no disables you can skip BKB, but how many times does that happen? I think it's worth going BKB even if the enemy team only have 1 disable.
edit: You didn't even give me a good reason why BKB -> MKB is bad...
edit2: I'm also undecided if going for a early MoM instead of Dominator is worth it or not. The MoM gives me a lot of fighting power, dropping all your flak cannon hits in a millisecond is quite legit, but it also makes me super squishy. The Helm of Dominator is safer but I find that on its own is kinda useless.
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i think you should prioritize butterfly over mkb
bracer hod bkb bfly
with a bottle and a stick and what not and ogre club before hod or whatever
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On June 11 2014 02:58 BlitzerSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 02:54 HighTimeDotA wrote:
going bkb into mkb blindly seems pretty bad. all builds should be according to how the game is going.
bottle is a must have on mid gyro. the hero has fast ms and stupidly strong solo kill potential if the opponent tries for the rune or have supports guarding. ? It's not "blind". It's like saying that going Bfury -> Manta Style on AM is pretty bad because all builds should be chosen according to how the game is going. I think BKB -> MKB is the standard for Gyrocopter, it gives you survivability and a lot of damage. It's obvious that if the enemy has no disables you can skip BKB, but how many times does that happen? I think it's worth going BKB even if the enemy team only have 1 disable. edit: You didn't even give me a good reason why BKB -> MKB is bad... edit2: I'm also undecided if going for a early MoM instead of Dominator is worth it or not. The MoM gives me a lot of fighting power, dropping all your flak cannon hits in a millisecond is quite legit, but it also makes me super squishy. The Helm of Dominator is safer but I find that on its own is kinda useless.
its not. most people go bfury--> manta on am. a small percentage of ppl go bkb --> mkb. why would you get mkb if there no evasion it makes no sense.
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Why is mkb a standard item on gyro but not on other agi carries?
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United States47024 Posts
Because of the way Flak cannon works.
Flak cannon is a predominant source of Gyro's damage by his 2nd/3rd major item. With Flak down, Gyro's right click ability is no more impressive than any other Agi hero given his low range and lack of notable skills/attributes to boost his damage output. Because of this, there is some motivation to maximize the amount of damage you can deal in 6 attacks to maximize the fighting effectiveness of the skill, rather than buying the usual more balanced combat item options. It's similar to how TA favors damage items like Deso and Crit first to maximize her Refraction/Meld burst, except orbs, -armor, and crit all interact more favorably with Psi Blades than they do with Flak Cannon (since Psi Blades splashes actual damage dealt as pure damage rather than being treated as separate unmitigated autoattacks), whcih pulls MKB somewhat ahead if we're talking purely about Flak damage.
That said, it also sacrifices up-front manfighting ability to some degree for raw damage, which I think in many cases is a mistake on this hero--given his low range, it's in many cases necessary to maximize your frontline fighting ability even if it's somewhat at the cost of Flak damage, which favors Butterfly over MKB a lot of the time.
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So its really for no other reason than the huge +damage? I see. I wasn't sure if there was something with the true strike that I was missing. Couldn't you get other items that would serve the same purpose and have other uses? Like a radiance or something?
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United States47024 Posts
Radiance isn't exactly more useful, has poorer buildup, and gives a lot less damage.
Really, the idea of going all-in on Flak damage rather than getting more balanced combat options at 2nd item is pretty questionable overall. But if you are going solely for Flak damage, it's going to be MKB or Rapier.
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Radiance is just inefficient damage if ur not using the burn to farm/fight but gyro very squishy and has high burst-damage so a radiance doesn't synergize with him like that at all and it also doesn't really help him farm its straight awful.
There aren't really "other" high flat-dmg items. MKB, Daedalus, Rapier and Deso are realistically the only pure +DMG items (outside like battlefury) and neither crit nor deso -armor effect nor MKB minibash proc with flak cannon (except on the primary target). Thus you take the highest pure +dmg choice (MKB).
However butterfly is quite often the choice now since its still a very high flat damage with so much other upside. Rapier remains ownage if u can secure aegis (or have BKB/Satanic/Butterfly already vs no BKB-piercing disables)
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Hotd bkb -> butter or/and mkb -> satanic. Pretty much the only route to play carry gyro. Last item likely to be hex/linkens/manta/abyssal/daedelus/rapier/skadi depending on what you need.
One big mistake players make is going satanic right after bkb.
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I gave up on winning with this guy when I got him for 10 hero challenge... hehe
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On June 11 2014 13:42 synapse wrote:
I gave up on winning with this guy when I got him for 10 hero challenge... hehe
Why? I always found him to be easy. Even if I'm not babysat, he has a decent killing potential. You don't always need high ranks of flak/barrage early on, so you can invest in stats too in some cases. If all else fails, just contribute with call down + pseudo disables like orchid/halberd/diffusal. Many ways to play him in pubs.
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I usually get Aquila first as a stats item; I like to be ready to TP countergank before level 6 and boots -> TP + wraith band -> Aquila is a good build for early relevance.
Also, Dominator over MoM because it pays off the Helm component by stacking camps for flak cannon. When I'm farming your first set of ancients, I activate Flak Cannon about 8 seconds before you arrive at the stack so it cools down soon enough to be useful, which lets me start farming ancients sooner.
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Gyro is one of my favorite pubstompers, he can carry hard while still contributing a lot in the midgame due to his skill set. I always go phase aquila on him, sometimes drums then typically hotd + bkb. He can farm stacks very quickly, so if you don't have supports stacking remember to get stacks going whenever you find yourself near your jungle around the 30 second mark. When you guys go carry gyro do you max missile? I typically max his other skills, get one point in missile then go stats as I find he needs the extra tankiness in the midgame or he gets blown up too easily.
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whenever I get Gyrocopter, I try to get Phase, Drums, BKB and then MKB; but I find I always lack the necessary time to reach MKB. If I go MKB before BKB; it really hurts me as well.
I can never seem to get the timing down for him.
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Gyro has been a game loser since MLG or earlier. DK used to draft him a lot when they played their "every hero does a shit ton of aoe" strat but that didn't go great for them.
The flak nerf hit him really hard - the fight will always be decided before your 2nd flak volley. Gyro can't split push so you have to 5 man. However, Gyro is also awful at pushing t3 with his range (and you can't waste flak to zone anymore). Gyro isn't a late game monster because he can't actually win the game vs solid lineups.
As such, you should aim to win the game before ~45 minutes. The build I would use is HOTD -> BKB -> BFLY -> SATANIC -> RAPIER. Early HOTD lets you stack, and is used later in your build up. You should get bkb fast enough anyway assuming free farm. BFLY + SATANIC make you extremely tanky and allow you to manfight + force high ground.
There are games that you can play safe and not go rapier, but a solid line up should be able to put up a solid high ground defense, and split push a gyro to death. In those situations losing a push is a loss even if you don't drop a rapier.
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On June 11 2014 17:56 Torte de Lini wrote:
whenever I get Gyrocopter, I try to get Phase, Drums, BKB and then MKB; but I find I always lack the necessary time to reach MKB. If I go MKB before BKB; it really hurts me as well.
I can never seem to get the timing down for him.
Maybe drums is your problem. Get a casual ogre if you want HP. Get Dom to stack ancients. Don't delay everything by an unnecessary 1.8k gold.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
Eh, what about 6th slot refresher? Assuming you get it around lvl23 after bkb-mkb-satanic-bfly-bots it makes similar impact as rapier damage-wise, while being a safer option in either case and actually makes 4 second bkb not that bad in rare engagements that are usually characteristic for lategame.
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I'm going to need some justification for the statement "Refresher makes similar impact to rapier damage-wise"
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On June 12 2014 02:36 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'm going to need some justification for "Refresher makes similar impact to rapier damage-wise"
it would if you/enemy heroes dont die and just take the double flak cannon over 10s. but how often does that happen
and how is the game not over when a gyro has all those items... there are rarely even pub games where both team are herping and cant do anything to each other.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 12 2014 02:36 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'm going to need some justification for the statement "Refresher makes similar impact to rapier damage-wise"
Double flak cannon with 350 damage > single flak cannon with 610 damage, assuming you attack quickly enough for your double bkb not to run out during it. Obviously, that is assuming that fights happen not more often than each 160 seconds.
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after doing 2K phys dmg in 1k aoe u prolly don't need to do any more aoe damage.
Now bump it to 3.6K dmg in an aoe and you definitely don't need to refresh flak lol. At that point all thats left is the enemy carry(s) and another flak is far less relevant than pure dmg.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 12 2014 02:44 Sn0_Man wrote:
after doing 2K phys dmg in 1k aoe u prolly don't need to do any more aoe damage.
Now bump it to 3.6K dmg in an aoe and you definitely don't need to refresh flak lol. At that point all thats left is the enemy carry(s) and another flak is far less relevant than pure dmg.
Ghost scepter, anyone?
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A) Ghost sceptre sucks ass vs gyro you are very likely to die in the ghost sceptre anyway
B) Rapier is still more damage so... its still better as I've been saying.
I mean, doing the same damage half as fast is a LOT worse, and thats before you factor in all the other things.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 12 2014 02:56 Sn0_Man wrote:
A) Ghost sceptre sucks ass vs gyro you are very likely to die in the ghost sceptre anyway
B) Rapier is still more damage so... its still better as I've been saying.
I mean, doing the same damage half as fast is a LOT worse, and thats before you factor in all the other things.
Other things like? For all i know refresher provides an x2 button on everything gyro has, be it double bkb, double satanic, double missle (it is actually annoying), double calldown or double flak.
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Refresher is a good choice, mainly because his ulti and flak are good enough to be used twice. Also more importantly, you get to use bkb twice so you don't get fucked by halberd. You get rfo late game on Luna for the very same reason.
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It ain't even worth the cast animation of casting missile until you've blown all ur flak charges IMO (unless you cast before shit really gets real). Double satanic is pretty irrelevant. Double BKB is the only relevant part, and as mentioned its better to just kill them in ur first bkb than to half kill them in ur first bkb and half kill them in ur 2nd plus having 2 bkb charges is heavily offset by having to fight only when u have refresher up.
Meanwhile doing 600 damage per hit is so fucking much better than 350 in single-target fights which are quite important since its safe to say if u have 30K networth and haven't won, at least one baddie is gonna be pretty jacked.
On June 12 2014 03:13 DucK- wrote:
Refresher is a good choice, mainly because his ulti and flak are good enough to be used twice. Also more importantly, you get to use bkb twice so you don't get fucked by halberd. You get rfo late game on Luna for the very same reason.
I'm quite certain that luna refresher also isn't terribly attractive
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 12 2014 03:16 Sn0_Man wrote:It ain't even worth the cast animation of casting missile until you've blown all ur flak charges IMO (unless you cast before shit really gets real). Double satanic is pretty irrelevant. Double BKB is the only relevant part, and as mentioned its better to just kill them in ur first bkb than to half kill them in ur first bkb and half kill them in ur 2nd plus having 2 bkb charges is heavily offset by having to fight only when u have refresher up. Meanwhile doing 600 damage per hit is so fucking much better than 350 in single-target fights which are quite important since its safe to say if u have 30K networth and haven't won, at least one baddie is gonna be pretty jacked. Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 03:13 DucK- wrote:
Refresher is a good choice, mainly because his ulti and flak are good enough to be used twice. Also more importantly, you get to use bkb twice so you don't get fucked by halberd. You get rfo late game on Luna for the very same reason. I'm quite certain that luna refresher also isn't terribly attractive
While missile part is arguable, double satanic is pretty darn relevant if you are up against someone who can deal with 1st satanic charge and just return fight to terms it began at via be it his own satanic/reincarnation/time lapse/getting illuminated with wisp tethered in. And doing 600 damage per hit is not much better than 350 in teamfight if the end some random supports just end up ghosting your whole flak out and suddenly gyro's carry ability is lower than that of venge with same items.
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Go farm 30K gold on a venge and get back to me
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 12 2014 03:31 Sn0_Man wrote:
Go farm 30K gold on a venge and get back to me
I could name potm with similar amount of success.
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On June 12 2014 03:35 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 03:31 Sn0_Man wrote:
Go farm 30K gold on a venge and get back to me I could name potm with similar amount of success.
This isnt about who outcarries who its about how you itemize gyro and why refresher is hilariously dumb. Trying to say that venge outcarries a gyro once he's used flak is obtuse, just like the rest of your arguments.
Besides, potms only damage advantage over a gyro is range and 32 ias from leap but she's down 5 agi so its pretty even.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 12 2014 03:41 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 03:35 lolfail9001 wrote:On June 12 2014 03:31 Sn0_Man wrote:
Go farm 30K gold on a venge and get back to me I could name potm with similar amount of success. This isnt about who outcarries who its about how you itemize gyro and why refresher is hilariously dumb. Trying to say that venge outcarries a gyro once he's used flak is obtuse, just like the rest of your arguments. Besides, potms only damage advantage over a gyro is range and 32 ias from leap but she's down 5 agi so its pretty even.
My point is that outside of flak cannon gyro is rather mediocre carry wise, and if enemy supports in backline (aka the supposed victims of it) find a way to wait out ~3-4 seconds of 1st flak cannon shots while not losing on their own effectiveness, gyro could be swapped with just about any agi carry. Refresher allows you to circumvent that, considering that i personally know 0 ways to be invulnerable to flak cannon shots for 8 seconds while not being disabled yourself (think euls, banishes). Rapier does not. Obviously rapier is better choice in most cases, but saying refresher is dumb lacks reasoning.
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On June 12 2014 02:56 Sn0_Man wrote:
A) Ghost sceptre sucks ass vs gyro you are very likely to die in the ghost sceptre anyway
B) Rapier is still more damage so... its still better as I've been saying.
I mean, doing the same damage half as fast is a LOT worse, and thats before you factor in all the other things.
ghost is VERY good vs gyro. Its easy to pop it once you see flak slowly flying at you, and gyro cant just not attack for 5 seconds in a teamfight and wait you out...
Then you have no flak for 30 seconds and that support on the edge of the fight will get to cycle all his spells twice during that time
Late game his ult is an alright spell but flak is 90% of his identity. If when its countered by a 1600 item per hero you start to wonder why you picked him. Gyro sucks at manfighting so you really need flak to fuck everyone but their fat carry up so your team can pile on top of him.
I never thought of getting a refresher but it seems pretty legit. Even if you get a rapier first I think refresher > 2nd rapier. Getting a 1st rapier is probably better because at that point you can manfight and kill bases fast
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United States47024 Posts
If you get to the point where you have one Rapier, that 6th slot is gonna be Aegis or Cheese, not Rapier or Refresher, lol.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 12 2014 04:37 TheYango wrote:
If you get to the point where you have one Rapier, that 6th slot is gonna be Aegis or Cheese, not Rapier or Refresher, lol.
Unless you are XBOCT
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On June 12 2014 04:37 TheYango wrote:
If you get to the point where you have one Rapier, that 6th slot is gonna be Aegis or Cheese, not Rapier or Refresher, lol.
what if its a comeback 6slot and you dont have rosh control, that's not an uncommon situation (among 6slot situations)
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rapier is the way to go. refresher on gyro is just so awful, a double satanic wont do jack in a hard game where you can even win when 6 slotted and if you want a longer bkb buy a new one.
i really want to face some of these refresher advocates in pubs maybe sometime in tlih.
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Rapier is a little different case as it is an item that significantly boost your DPS, so I would agree it is a good choice. It makes your high damage output into absurdly high.
But you guys put it in such a way that you are willing to go rapier every game if it comes to that stage. Chances are you are going to balls down and opt for a safer damage item as your 6th item, of which it is likely to be Daedalus. For this case, there is no doubt rfo is superior because all daed does is marginally increasing your already high damage output. The impact is not major. Meanwhile rfo gives you double flak/call down/satanic/bkb.
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On June 11 2014 13:42 synapse wrote:
I gave up on winning with this guy when I got him for 10 hero challenge... hehe
I'm 2k level player that's having a bad time with him right now. At least with the daily hero challenge, it's teaching me hero's I don't play often. But man he's hard to play at my level..
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Does anybody ever build aghs on gyro? A couple days ago I had a bit of a rough start offlane with a tusk support (T_T) against sniper/jak/clock (dafuq) trilane, and i found aghs really helpful because I was able to somewhat catch up in farm by staying in lane while the rest of my team fought while still contributing with ulti anywhere. Also really helped because one of the enemy heroes was Naga, and both calldowns hitting the illusions was a kill so it basically shut down the illu splitpush.
Just curious if that only really worked because everyone in the game was bad or if it's anything close to a legitimate strategy
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No. When you're behind just stall on highground using your abilities and farm a rapier. Then hit their entire team for rapier damage from 1200 range by hitting a creep or something with flak.
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On August 20 2014 09:33 GTPGlitch wrote:
Does anybody ever build aghs on gyro? A couple days ago I had a bit of a rough start offlane with a tusk support (T_T) against sniper/jak/clock (dafuq) trilane, and i found aghs really helpful because I was able to somewhat catch up in farm by staying in lane while the rest of my team fought while still contributing with ulti anywhere. Also really helped because one of the enemy heroes was Naga, and both calldowns hitting the illusions was a kill so it basically shut down the illu splitpush.
Just curious if that only really worked because everyone in the game was bad or if it's anything close to a legitimate strategy
Always found it underwhelming though, even when I'm not playing a carry role. I'm not sure of the timing for Agha if you are not the farmer, so I dunno how tanky naga illusions will be and its effectiveness against her.
Still in a non carry supportish role, I probably get items with actives like halberd atos diffusal orchid, rather than pretend to contribute with insignificant secondary DPS.
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Can u use Aghs first offlane Gyro in a global ganking strat? Just askin'...
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On August 20 2014 22:57 Checkm8 wrote:
Can u use Aghs first offlane Gyro in a global ganking strat? Just askin'...
I guess so but why would you do it when he can't really offlane there, and him being global requires you to first build an item.
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Also why would you use gyro in a global ganking strat when there are MANY other heroes that will do the job far better than Gyro can. Heck, even Zeus would provide comparable global damage to a gank - and that even gives vision and is (almost) guaranteed to hit.
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Aghs is kinda good vs splitpush because you can stop two lanes at once with an ult and Flak. But I don't think it's optimal in any case, it's a just-for-fun item
I did get it today in a pub as roaming support gyro http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/846231287
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On August 20 2014 09:33 GTPGlitch wrote:
Does anybody ever build aghs on gyro? A couple days ago I had a bit of a rough start offlane with a tusk support (T_T) against sniper/jak/clock (dafuq) trilane, and i found aghs really helpful because I was able to somewhat catch up in farm by staying in lane while the rest of my team fought while still contributing with ulti anywhere. Also really helped because one of the enemy heroes was Naga, and both calldowns hitting the illusions was a kill so it basically shut down the illu splitpush.
Just curious if that only really worked because everyone in the game was bad or if it's anything close to a legitimate strategy
No it isn't a bad idea. The problem with gyro is that while he can throw out a ton of damage he takes some time to apply it and in the earliest engagements gyro is very squishy. I prefer not to use Aghs because sometimes your team needs you for more than call down.
When my team is clearly winning the laning phase I go for butterfly to cement the lead provided but if I get a sense that my opponents will overtake us before I can safely farm up eagle song I go for Sange and Yasha (SnY).
The overall increase in effective HP is much better with SnY while I'm still able to provide respectable Flak damage. I have been able to help my team hemmorage against better snowballers by having a more balanced fighting power that BKB first doesn't provide.
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United States2186 Posts
Why go anything besides the hotd bkb mkb bfly satanic that every top player universally goes (order interchangable)?
Nobody good has yet to provide any proof of a worthwhile alternative.
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BKB Rapier Rapier Rapier Rapier
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On August 25 2014 11:03 Ver wrote:
Why go anything besides the hotd bkb mkb bfly satanic that every top player universally goes (order interchangable)?
Nobody good has yet to provide any proof of a worthwhile alternative.
For a carry gyro with farm allocated to him, yea there is little reason to deviate from this build because there's really lack of alternatives. Probably could rush a SB considering how good it is in pubs.
I never ever saw a reason to follow the route if I'm not given farm as a carry (ie. Supportish/roam gyro). Same as the arguments I made in the mirana thread, you are better off getting items with actives, rather than pretending to hurt with flak damage and playing catch up from the start.
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I sometimes end up running Mek Aquila out of position 4. Gyro is a good Mek-holder and can find enough farm with Rocket Barrage to get Mek at a reasonable time even without a lane to farm.
Of course this means he can't Flak down the entire enemy team at 40 minutes, but that wasn't going to happen anyway.
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Ultra noob question. Been struggling with this guy for my all hero challenge.
Is it worth considering a linken sphere over black king bar? Particularly with the BKB nerf in the new patch where you can't get above 5 seconds spell immunity once you use it too much.
As far as I can tell the numbers give you the same additional damage due to the +15 agility, plus armor plus hp and mana regen plus attack speed so from a damage and stats perspective its an upgrade. Or is that complete spell immunity too important?
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Anyone got replays of roaming Gyro and mid Gyro?
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On October 03 2014 14:54 DropBear wrote:
Ultra noob question. Been struggling with this guy for my all hero challenge.
Is it worth considering a linken sphere over black king bar? Particularly with the BKB nerf in the new patch where you can't get above 5 seconds spell immunity once you use it too much.
As far as I can tell the numbers give you the same additional damage due to the +15 agility, plus armor plus hp and mana regen plus attack speed so from a damage and stats perspective its an upgrade. Or is that complete spell immunity too important?
Linkens is not a substitute to bkb. They serve different purposes. Gyro in general needs spell immunity to do his thing. Linkens on heroes like morph/weaver/puck make what is already hard to effectively disable even harder. On gyro it serves no purpose except if there is a very crucial spell that kills you, like roar/doom. Even in that case, you probably won't be getting an early linkens.
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I like your RFO idea duck, might try it
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On October 03 2014 17:52 icystorage wrote:
I like your RFO idea duck, might try it
Even more viable now, since you can't rebuy bkb. Suddenly, 185 cd 8 second bkb.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 03 2014 16:13 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2014 14:54 DropBear wrote:
Ultra noob question. Been struggling with this guy for my all hero challenge.
Is it worth considering a linken sphere over black king bar? Particularly with the BKB nerf in the new patch where you can't get above 5 seconds spell immunity once you use it too much.
As far as I can tell the numbers give you the same additional damage due to the +15 agility, plus armor plus hp and mana regen plus attack speed so from a damage and stats perspective its an upgrade. Or is that complete spell immunity too important?
Linkens is not a substitute to bkb. They serve different purposes. Gyro in general needs spell immunity to do his thing. Linkens on heroes like morph/weaver/puck make what is already hard to effectively disable even harder. On gyro it serves no purpose except if there is a very crucial spell that kills you, like roar/doom. Even in that case, you probably won't be getting an early linkens.
The other thing to consider is that heroes like Morph and Weaver are already generally far stronger at 2nd/3rd item because of how their damage tends to be autoattack/item dependent. Linken->damage item tends to be a smoother progression for them because the magic immunity of a really early BKB is less impactful for them (thoug is still influential enough in certain games). Gyro's early spell-based damage in fights with Barrage and Ult is really high, so a 10s BKB fight even without DPS items is very strong. You can't do the same with a Linken's because even if it blocks a stun, it doesn't let you run into close range to use your spells without eating a ton of incidental magic damage.
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I just don't understand why most of pros doesn't give 1 skill point to homing missile before level 21. I really don't believe increasing your base stats better then level 1 missile. It has a nice range (1000 if im not mistaken) and gyro doesn't have mana problems at all. Also gyro needs to get close before attacking so you don't lose right click damage.
If it hits you get 2 second stun. If it doesn't hit you lose +2 stats. I believe first option is way superior.
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For a carry gyro he would have mana problems early if you are using homing missile all the time though, but gyro is a pretty rare sight in competitive nowadays so not sure what pros do anymore. Homing Missile was buffed a tad the past few patches as well.
Been playing around with the Slasher Eul's build on a support/roaming Gyro though and it's pretty effective.
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The actual problem with Homing Missile in pro play seems to be that pro teams are coordinated enough to kill the missile too often.
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homing missile is really good now
gyro still has a lot of weaknesses as a 1 and playing him as 2 with max rocket seems more promising
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homing missle is more useful in laning phase (1v1 matchups or 2v1), and in really early engagements.
It has its uses later on in the game (occasionally the other team can neglect it and it can do a lot) and is the best linkens breaker in the game, but yeah it falls off ofc.
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Ehh I have been seeing homing missiles being maxed recently. Its good in solo lanes, or contested ones. But if thwrws a support doing all the zoning, then there's no need for missile. Arguably the skill is only useful in the early phase, so if you do not require it early on, then there's no point skilling it later.
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On October 29 2014 15:39 DucK- wrote:
Ehh I have been seeing homing missiles being maxed recently. Its good in solo lanes, or contested ones. But if thwrws a support doing all the zoning, then there's no need for missile. Arguably the skill is only useful in the early phase, so if you do not require it early on, then there's no point skilling it later.
It is a good zoning tool. Put it on one of their players, it is forced to back a little so the allies can kill the missile. Forcing movement is good for increasing chances of good chronos, ravages etc.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
PPD playing Eul's Gyro on stream now. He went phaseboots into euls. I think I like Slahser's tranqs double bracer into euls more, there were many moments when ppd couldn't go into rocket barrage range because he had like 800hp and would die if he tried.
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On November 04 2014 18:12 cecek wrote:
PPD playing Eul's Gyro on stream now. He went phaseboots into euls. I think I like Slahser's tranqs double bracer into euls more, there were many moments when ppd couldn't go into rocket barrage range because he had like 800hp and would die if he tried.
I like the idea of the build but I don't really understand why one would not go Urn rather than double-bracer. The entire idea is to get kills and be consistently active on the map rather than passively farming so Urn seems crazy good.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
So the idea is to homing missile, euls, run next to them and rocket barrage while the homing missile connects?
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On November 04 2014 20:05 ahswtini wrote:
So the idea is to homing missile, euls, run next to them and rocket barrage while the homing missile connects?
Thats the idea yea.
Also I think its pretty important to highlight that this isnt a carry build. This is a more of a ganking build more suited for 2-4 position gyros. Thats a pretty big deal actually which not everyone seem to have caught on to. I dont think anyone would want a safelane farming Eul gyro more than a Dagon gyro. If you wanna play Eul gyro (totally fine), dont take safelane farm.
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On November 04 2014 20:05 ahswtini wrote:
So the idea is to homing missile, euls, run next to them and rocket barrage while the homing missile connects?
You can also use your call down a split second after you Eul's your target. Full combo is basically a free kill on most heroes early on.
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I actually like support gyro again, missile does an absurd amount of damage, if it's a 2v1 lane there's no way they're gonna kill the missile without eating a full rocket barrage to the face
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The return of support gyro!
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I dont even know how I got here, but I was here 76th!
Also buy drums because gyros f**king loves drumming.
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Why do most gyrocopters build MKB as their 1st big damage item after BKB/HotD? Wouldn't Daedalus be more effective for the single target damage? Daedalus only gives you 7 less raw damage but it gives you way more DPS when attacking a single target (which is also super useful with lifesteal)
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On December 15 2014 06:17 tehh4ck3r wrote:
Why do most gyrocopters build MKB as their 1st big damage item after BKB/HotD? Wouldn't Daedalus be more effective for the single target damage? Daedalus only gives you 7 less raw damage but it gives you way more DPS when attacking a single target (which is also super useful with lifesteal)
Ministun procs
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Carry gyro is all about flak cannon. Neither crit nor mini-bash transfers over to flak cannon, and while Daedalus isn't significantly worse than MKB, MKB gives more raw damage, is slightly cheaper, and also gives a slight AS boost. Also IIRC true strike does transfer over to flak cannon, but flak cannon hits aren't supposed to be able to be evaded (via DotA1). So I'm not sure if this is still the case and if so if it was even ever confirmed a bug or not in DotA2.
Also generally speaking even if you are itemizing for DPS, Daedalus is not typically built as your first DPS item. The inflection point of where Daedalus starts to outdamage MKB is ~160 damage (before purchase), which typically means Daedalus is better served as your 2nd DPS item. For Gyro in particular, once you get to the point where you are considering your 2nd DPS item, you're probably going to favor Rapier.
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On December 15 2014 06:43 Skyro wrote:
Carry gyro is all about flak cannon. Neither crit nor mini-bash transfers over to flak cannon, and while Daedalus isn't significantly worse than MKB, MKB gives more raw damage, is slightly cheaper, and also gives a slight AS boost. Also IIRC true strike does transfer over to flak cannon, but flak cannon hits aren't supposed to be able to be evaded (via DotA1). So I'm not sure if this is still the case and if so if it was even ever confirmed a bug or not in DotA2.
Also generally speaking even if you are itemizing for DPS, Daedalus is not typically built as your first DPS item. The inflection point of where Daedalus starts to outdamage MKB is ~160 damage (before purchase), which typically means Daedalus is better served as your 2nd DPS item. For Gyro in particular, once you get to the point where you are considering your 2nd DPS item, you're probably going to favor Rapier.
At level 16 with 1 point in stats & all other abilities maxed, with phase aquila BKB and helm gyro has 171-181 damage per autoattack which is a fair bit above the ~160 dmg threshold you gave.
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On December 15 2014 07:05 tehh4ck3r wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2014 06:43 Skyro wrote:
Carry gyro is all about flak cannon. Neither crit nor mini-bash transfers over to flak cannon, and while Daedalus isn't significantly worse than MKB, MKB gives more raw damage, is slightly cheaper, and also gives a slight AS boost. Also IIRC true strike does transfer over to flak cannon, but flak cannon hits aren't supposed to be able to be evaded (via DotA1). So I'm not sure if this is still the case and if so if it was even ever confirmed a bug or not in DotA2.
Also generally speaking even if you are itemizing for DPS, Daedalus is not typically built as your first DPS item. The inflection point of where Daedalus starts to outdamage MKB is ~160 damage (before purchase), which typically means Daedalus is better served as your 2nd DPS item. For Gyro in particular, once you get to the point where you are considering your 2nd DPS item, you're probably going to favor Rapier. At level 16 with 1 point in stats & all other abilities maxed, with phase aquila BKB and helm gyro has 171-181 damage per autoattack which is a fair bit above the ~160 dmg threshold you gave.
160 damage is a rough rule of thumb for the DPS itemization decision b/w Daedalus or MKB in general, not for gyro in particular. Gyro flak cannons benefit more from the higher base DMG and atk spd, plus the utility of minibash and true strike will typically outweigh any small single target DPS difference. Daed is not often built on gyro at all, even after mkb, with BFly being commonly built.
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When I still played carry gyro when that was popular I preferred abyssal over mkb usually. Its slightly higher damage and its hp helped gyro a lot imo, and not to mention the bkb piercing stun, which was very useful vs melee carries like lifestealer.
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On December 15 2014 08:40 juracule wrote:
When I still played carry gyro when that was popular I preferred abyssal over mkb usually. Its slightly higher damage and its hp helped gyro a lot imo, and not to mention the bkb piercing stun, which was very useful vs melee carries like lifestealer.
TBH if your gyro is in range to get abyssal active off & doesn't die then the fight was probably already won
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On December 15 2014 09:02 tehh4ck3r wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2014 08:40 juracule wrote:
When I still played carry gyro when that was popular I preferred abyssal over mkb usually. Its slightly higher damage and its hp helped gyro a lot imo, and not to mention the bkb piercing stun, which was very useful vs melee carries like lifestealer. TBH if your gyro is in range to get abyssal active off & doesn't die then the fight was probably already won
I think the idea is you get it vs melee carries--you don't try to get in range to use abyssal active--you use it defensively when their naix/slark/etc. jumps you.
Still it's significantly more expensive than MKB--I'd be willing to bet MKB gives significantly more dps/cost considering the attack speed.
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Yes Abyssal is significantly less cost efficient. Even if your concern was meele DPS it is hard for me to imagine a scenario where BFly would not be preferred unless they have both BKB and MKB already. Plus Flak Cannon let's you stay pretty far in the backlines if you have any target close by like a creep or minion. Also with BKB, Rocket Barrage, and Call Down Gyro is not exactly the easiest hero to just chase down.
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oh i always thought mini stun proc'd in flak cannon. go figure
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I cringe in most pub games where Gyro goes for Agh scepter. Except for that one game where Aghs gyro was actually useful against Faceless void. When void chronos and activates Mask of Madness, you can just blow him up or bring him really low with the perfect call down. Could be a useful pocket strat for pros? What do you guys think?
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I would almost always get abyssal over daed on gyro because I value having that extra utility over slightly better flak damage.
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Flak doesn't crit, either.
And the MKB vs. Abyssal vs. Daedalus discussion is missing an important side point; one of Gyrocopter's potential timings is upgraded boots + Aquilla + Demon Edge (then BKB, then the rest of the first major damage item), and Abyssal builds can't do that.
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On December 15 2014 15:58 Buckyman wrote:
Flak doesn't crit, either.
And the MKB vs. Abyssal vs. Daedalus discussion is missing an important side point; one of Gyrocopter's potential timings is upgraded boots + Aquilla + Demon Edge (then BKB, then the rest of the first major damage item), and Abyssal builds can't do that.
Why not just get a 3800 instead of 2400
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Cheaper and most of the time you get it for rapier or MKB. Sometimes even a Daedalus. Abyssal Blade is niche on him.
I don't swear by Demon Edge builds because sometimes I get BKB into butterfly instead of MKB but it's a solid suggestion before you take Rosh and then upgrade rapier ASAP.
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On December 15 2014 15:58 Buckyman wrote:
Flak doesn't crit, either.
And the MKB vs. Abyssal vs. Daedalus discussion is missing an important side point; one of Gyrocopter's potential timings is upgraded boots + Aquilla + Demon Edge (then BKB, then the rest of the first major damage item), and Abyssal builds can't do that.
you can get basher instead of demon edge, which gives you 6 less damage in return for 6 more strength and also has an easier build up. Also gives you unreliable bash.
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Again, or you can get the Demon's Edge, get Roshan's aegis and upgrade to Rapier and use its synergy well with Flak cannon to win games.
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On December 15 2014 19:02 evanthebouncy! wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2014 15:58 Buckyman wrote:
Flak doesn't crit, either.
And the MKB vs. Abyssal vs. Daedalus discussion is missing an important side point; one of Gyrocopter's potential timings is upgraded boots + Aquilla + Demon Edge (then BKB, then the rest of the first major damage item), and Abyssal builds can't do that. Why not just get a 3800 instead of 2400
Because the relic would happen 2-3 minutes later, and slow down the BKB by the same amount. This generally means the opponent has a timing window where Gyro can't fight well.
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SoCal8910 Posts
On December 15 2014 19:52 juracule wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2014 15:58 Buckyman wrote:
Flak doesn't crit, either.
And the MKB vs. Abyssal vs. Daedalus discussion is missing an important side point; one of Gyrocopter's potential timings is upgraded boots + Aquilla + Demon Edge (then BKB, then the rest of the first major damage item), and Abyssal builds can't do that. you can get basher instead of demon edge, which gives you 6 less damage in return for 6 more strength and also has an easier build up. Also gives you unreliable bash.
but basher is an unnatural build into something that is niche on the hero.
while I agree, the 6 str helps, gyro is at his core a glass cannon. the 6 str will not be more valuable than blowing everyone up in a team fight with an item that builds from your demon edge. also consider that he gets no attack speed from that build too, something you can get out of your eventual mkb.
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The +15 extra attack speed really isn't all that important on gyro due to the limited number of flak shots. You are getting those flak shots off anyhow during the duration of BKB. After that you just become a ranged creep without a steroid. Neither is the magic damage proc from MKB all that relevant. So essentially you are getting MKB for 88 damage and the sure-fire hits.
Really you might as well get basher + demon edge for equal gold.
+6 str +86 dmg +unreliable bash vs true strike (which wont be relevant at early timings) +88 dmg +15 attack speed +magic damage procs
The former build leaves your build far more open-ended (abyssal is an item you will want to have anyway when 6-slotted)- and can prevent people from building evasion without having to build mkb itself, allowing you to build rapier faster if needed.
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Is support Gyro still a thing?
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On December 16 2014 11:15 Just_a_Moth wrote:
Is support Gyro still a thing?
Not really a thing. But that doesnt mean it's terrible, he can make an OK support. Although you do suffer a lot as support later in the game when you cant run close to people to rocket barrage and missiles are easily dealt with. But against unprepared enemies an early boots gyro can do some work during laning.
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Unless you value the flexibility that highly, basher or crystalys outperform Demon Edge overall. Hell, even Yasha, Maelstrom, or MoM would in certain situations.
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SoCal8910 Posts
I see why you would get basher, but I would argue that abyssal over crits would be better in most situations because you only get crits from the main target and the majority of your damage late comes from flak cannon due to its range.
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Abyssal owns on gyro but you can't really compare an item thats 6.7K to an item thats like 5.5K. There's a substantial difference in those costs. Also in buildup since a casual basher sux on gyro so u need 3.8K gold PLUS BUYBACK most of the time to even start buying abyssal. which is hella rough.
Also I'm mega testing roaming support gyro maxing missile and just slaying. How's a mid hero supposed to deal with missiles from fog lmao. First item force :D
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SoCal8910 Posts
On December 19 2014 02:02 Sn0_Man wrote:
Abyssal owns on gyro but you can't really compare an item thats 6.7K to an item thats like 5.5K. There's a substantial difference in those costs. Also in buildup since a casual basher sux on gyro so u need 3.8K gold PLUS BUYBACK most of the time to even start buying abyssal. which is hella rough.
Also I'm mega testing roaming support gyro maxing missile and just slaying. How's a mid hero supposed to deal with missiles from fog lmao. First item force :D
ya, I mean I would argue that I don't like the build up (i went through this on the last pg).
support gyro is interesting. boots first is a pain in the ass to deal with so you can surprise the shit outta everyone with a casual rocket barrage.
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My point is that MKB as first damage item doesnt do much for you outside of giving you damage (because no one will have evasion early) - damage you could've gotten by just buying a demon edge + basher itself, while retaining more flexibility in item progression. Casual basher doesnt suck anymore than a casual demon edge.
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United States47024 Posts
True Strike isn't completely worthless due to how Flak Cannon miss chance is individually checked per shot, meaning that ignoring high ground miss chance will probably get you a little more damage (since Flak has 1000 range, it'll be quite often that Flak shots are going from low ground to high ground), but it probably isn't enough to justify the item on it's own.
However, the difference between Basher+Demon Edge and MKB comes out in what else you got. You may *eventually* have both Abyssal+MKB, but getting Basher+Demon Edge early usually requires you to sell a small item (Basi/Aquila, Wand, Bottle, etc.) to make room for both items. Phase+Aquila+Wand+BKB+Demon Edge+TP is 6 slots. You have to sell the Wand or Aquila to make room for the Basher, whereas MKB lets you retain them until your next item. So you really shouldn't be comparing Basher+Demon Edge to MKB, but rather to MKB+Wand/Bottle/Aquila/whatever you would be selling to make room for the Basher.
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I'd arque you shouldn't even have bought a wand in the first place
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I've been spamming offlane gyro for the past week. Basing my build after Slasher.
Opening with 2x gaunlet, tango, ring of protection. Contest rune is easy with barrage and teammates. But back off if 3+ enemy shows up.
In lane just leech and try to last hit. If they try to zone you just rocket barrage. Camp runes when profitable.
Build tranquil boots, and rush bottle. Then rush urn and participate in fights. Gyro has high armour but low hp, so urn will almost heal him full. In fights just stay back and time your ultimate, missile on their brawlers whom have to stay to deal damage. I think magic wand is great pickup too. Go ham when they're weak, because going in too eagerly with barrage in team fight is too dangerous.
After that is where I want to make a case of getting an orchid. It's incredible utility and very often your orchid timing is so fast they haven't got time to buy bkb. Eul is quite Meh IMO. Eul comes in weird components and neither help with your damage, and cyclone is only useful for solo kills, and even then the enemy can react if they see you as you have to lay down the rocket first before Eul.
Orchid is always strong, atk speed and damage, mana regeneration, silence! In teamfight now just play like warlock. Wait in back and cast your chaotic offerings and upheaval (your ultimate ) and silence one guy and missile and urn the other. Don't dive the backline unless to orchid someone important. Fight with your team in front line, see who's beating on your teammates and barrage his face off and missile him to force him back.
I would recommend against transition to dps. Keep playing utility, i rush eblade alot, and i also get Eul or force, or sheep. To dps gyro you need both damage and survival, so Mkb,bkb,helm to start. You will never catch up that way. Bear in mind you been maxing out missile and barrage, and you can't flash farm dps items at this point. You will just keep fighting with your 50cd ultimate and continously buy utility
This is unranked. My ranked is 4.1k so take it with grains of salt.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1208456546
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When I random gyro now, I hardly play him as carry. I usually just start with boots + regen/stats and play him as a roamer. Any lone enemy trying to contest the rune is usually a first blood for you. I usually go rocket missile rocket, then max missile first. Itemise it is very flexible. I often get bottle. I also like eul to set up the missile. Orchid is fine if there's a slippery hero.
Sometimes I end up soloing offlane. You actually can crush weakly constructed dual safelanes because they can't zone you effectively because of barrage. And when you have levels, missile is a pain. Which means if the carry is some useless one like Medusa, you kinda have full reign of the lane :D
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I've been playing around with the tranq/euls, I feel like by the time I get the euls (20ish minutes) the effectiveness of using it is minimized. Kills need to be quick when ganking and 2.5 seconds of letting their team respond hurts. It can be fun, and it might get you a few kills, and it definitely has some utility in fights and letting you farm more, but I think in terms of setting up the rocket, the timing doesn't work out too well, or too often. I've only done it for about 3-5 games though. Support gyro is definitely fun though.
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On February 03 2015 16:13 evanthebouncy! wrote:I've been spamming offlane gyro for the past week. Basing my build after Slasher. Opening with 2x gaunlet, tango, ring of protection. Contest rune is easy with barrage and teammates. But back off if 3+ enemy shows up. In lane just leech and try to last hit. If they try to zone you just rocket barrage. Camp runes when profitable. Build tranquil boots, and rush bottle. Then rush urn and participate in fights. Gyro has high armour but low hp, so urn will almost heal him full. In fights just stay back and time your ultimate, missile on their brawlers whom have to stay to deal damage. I think magic wand is great pickup too. Go ham when they're weak, because going in too eagerly with barrage in team fight is too dangerous. After that is where I want to make a case of getting an orchid. It's incredible utility and very often your orchid timing is so fast they haven't got time to buy bkb. Eul is quite Meh IMO. Eul comes in weird components and neither help with your damage, and cyclone is only useful for solo kills, and even then the enemy can react if they see you as you have to lay down the rocket first before Eul. Orchid is always strong, atk speed and damage, mana regeneration, silence! In teamfight now just play like warlock. Wait in back and cast your chaotic offerings and upheaval (your ultimate ) and silence one guy and missile and urn the other. Don't dive the backline unless to orchid someone important. Fight with your team in front line, see who's beating on your teammates and barrage his face off and missile him to force him back. I would recommend against transition to dps. Keep playing utility, i rush eblade alot, and i also get Eul or force, or sheep. To dps gyro you need both damage and survival, so Mkb,bkb,helm to start. You will never catch up that way. Bear in mind you been maxing out missile and barrage, and you can't flash farm dps items at this point. You will just keep fighting with your 50cd ultimate and continously buy utility This is unranked. My ranked is 4.1k so take it with grains of salt. http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1208456546
I agree with most of what you said, but I really don't like your eblade itemization. It seems gimmicky, as eblade does on most heroes. I see no reason not to transition into damage, you are right that you can't flash farm well without flak, but you aren't getting stats over flak, so you will naturally get it from teamfights and pickoffs. Even 1 level of flak lets you farm pretty well in conjunction with rocket barrage.
I think another HP item apart from the urn is probably required, so maybe the bkb after? I never tried orchid, but it sounds like it could be okay. SNY comes to mind to give you more chase and mobility in fights, as well as the obvious tankability. When I carry with him I generally favor the casual yasha anyway for increased farming efficiency so I don't think SNY is too bad in place of the bkb for getting hp early on.
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On February 04 2015 19:21 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2015 16:13 evanthebouncy! wrote:I've been spamming offlane gyro for the past week. Basing my build after Slasher. Opening with 2x gaunlet, tango, ring of protection. Contest rune is easy with barrage and teammates. But back off if 3+ enemy shows up. In lane just leech and try to last hit. If they try to zone you just rocket barrage. Camp runes when profitable. Build tranquil boots, and rush bottle. Then rush urn and participate in fights. Gyro has high armour but low hp, so urn will almost heal him full. In fights just stay back and time your ultimate, missile on their brawlers whom have to stay to deal damage. I think magic wand is great pickup too. Go ham when they're weak, because going in too eagerly with barrage in team fight is too dangerous. After that is where I want to make a case of getting an orchid. It's incredible utility and very often your orchid timing is so fast they haven't got time to buy bkb. Eul is quite Meh IMO. Eul comes in weird components and neither help with your damage, and cyclone is only useful for solo kills, and even then the enemy can react if they see you as you have to lay down the rocket first before Eul. Orchid is always strong, atk speed and damage, mana regeneration, silence! In teamfight now just play like warlock. Wait in back and cast your chaotic offerings and upheaval (your ultimate ) and silence one guy and missile and urn the other. Don't dive the backline unless to orchid someone important. Fight with your team in front line, see who's beating on your teammates and barrage his face off and missile him to force him back. I would recommend against transition to dps. Keep playing utility, i rush eblade alot, and i also get Eul or force, or sheep. To dps gyro you need both damage and survival, so Mkb,bkb,helm to start. You will never catch up that way. Bear in mind you been maxing out missile and barrage, and you can't flash farm dps items at this point. You will just keep fighting with your 50cd ultimate and continously buy utility This is unranked. My ranked is 4.1k so take it with grains of salt. http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1208456546 I agree with most of what you said, but I really don't like your eblade itemization. It seems gimmicky, as eblade does on most heroes. I see no reason not to transition into damage, you are right that you can't flash farm well without flak, but you aren't getting stats over flak, so you will naturally get it from teamfights and pickoffs. Even 1 level of flak lets you farm pretty well in conjunction with rocket barrage. I think another HP item apart from the urn is probably required, so maybe the bkb after? I never tried orchid, but it sounds like it could be okay. SNY comes to mind to give you more chase and mobility in fights, as well as the obvious tankability. When I carry with him I generally favor the casual yasha anyway for increased farming efficiency so I don't think SNY is too bad in place of the bkb for getting hp early on.
I disagree with the transition to DPS. For Gyro to be relevant DPS wise, he needs both survivalbility and damage. The former is usually from BKB. The latter is where your DPS items like MKB and Butterfly comes in. The problem with transitioning to DPS is that you can't achieve both at a good timing. You are playing catch up from the start, as you are not allocated resources. When you get your BKB, you have no damage to hurt the enemy. Your usefulness comes just from your spells. When you finally add your first damage item to it, it is not painful enough to be a threat then due to enemies' having more HP/armour/mobility etc. As such, I believe getting utility items would be a better choice.
In the scenario where your mid/offlane do not soak up much farm (Nyx, Puck, Clock etc), then perhaps you could make that transition since there are resources available for you to do so.
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I have some trouble using eblade as well. Maybe sheep or abbysal is better. My item after orchid is bit wonky as I have not thought about it too much
But abbysal Seems great. Too bad it cones in bad components. I would like a smooth transition... Let me explore more
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Abyssal's components are really not much worse than E-blades tbh
not that i'm advocating either item here
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what would you advocate instead?
I think the best part of utility gyro is your damage is really independent of your item choice so you can get whatever the fuck you want. Maybe just itemize on a per-game basis would be sufficient.
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for that playstyle, you could always consider utility team items like vlads or pipe at that point... depending on the state of the game
mid-lategame vlads is highly underrated imo, it's an incredibly cost-efficient teamfight item
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I'm a fan of halberds, since it kinda screws over many DPS heroes, especially against single core lineups. Otherwise the usual utility items of force/pipe/atos/linkens/hex etc all work depending on the game. I'm still a fan of eul build outside of the missile combo because of eul's kiting potential though.
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I've been attempting Slasher's opening recently, and there's one piece of it I've been particularly impressed by - the casual bracer built partly from starting items. The +100 HP is quite often the difference between surviving a full rocket barrage and dying part-way through it, and turning one death into a kill means it's paid off.
With regards to farming after Eul's, putting exactly two points in Flak lets me clear most camps quickly with Flak into rockets, and Euls' sustain means I can use rockets in the jungle.
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On February 05 2015 01:44 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2015 19:21 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On February 03 2015 16:13 evanthebouncy! wrote:I've been spamming offlane gyro for the past week. Basing my build after Slasher. Opening with 2x gaunlet, tango, ring of protection. Contest rune is easy with barrage and teammates. But back off if 3+ enemy shows up. In lane just leech and try to last hit. If they try to zone you just rocket barrage. Camp runes when profitable. Build tranquil boots, and rush bottle. Then rush urn and participate in fights. Gyro has high armour but low hp, so urn will almost heal him full. In fights just stay back and time your ultimate, missile on their brawlers whom have to stay to deal damage. I think magic wand is great pickup too. Go ham when they're weak, because going in too eagerly with barrage in team fight is too dangerous. After that is where I want to make a case of getting an orchid. It's incredible utility and very often your orchid timing is so fast they haven't got time to buy bkb. Eul is quite Meh IMO. Eul comes in weird components and neither help with your damage, and cyclone is only useful for solo kills, and even then the enemy can react if they see you as you have to lay down the rocket first before Eul. Orchid is always strong, atk speed and damage, mana regeneration, silence! In teamfight now just play like warlock. Wait in back and cast your chaotic offerings and upheaval (your ultimate ) and silence one guy and missile and urn the other. Don't dive the backline unless to orchid someone important. Fight with your team in front line, see who's beating on your teammates and barrage his face off and missile him to force him back. I would recommend against transition to dps. Keep playing utility, i rush eblade alot, and i also get Eul or force, or sheep. To dps gyro you need both damage and survival, so Mkb,bkb,helm to start. You will never catch up that way. Bear in mind you been maxing out missile and barrage, and you can't flash farm dps items at this point. You will just keep fighting with your 50cd ultimate and continously buy utility This is unranked. My ranked is 4.1k so take it with grains of salt. http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1208456546 I agree with most of what you said, but I really don't like your eblade itemization. It seems gimmicky, as eblade does on most heroes. I see no reason not to transition into damage, you are right that you can't flash farm well without flak, but you aren't getting stats over flak, so you will naturally get it from teamfights and pickoffs. Even 1 level of flak lets you farm pretty well in conjunction with rocket barrage. I think another HP item apart from the urn is probably required, so maybe the bkb after? I never tried orchid, but it sounds like it could be okay. SNY comes to mind to give you more chase and mobility in fights, as well as the obvious tankability. When I carry with him I generally favor the casual yasha anyway for increased farming efficiency so I don't think SNY is too bad in place of the bkb for getting hp early on. I disagree with the transition to DPS. For Gyro to be relevant DPS wise, he needs both survivalbility and damage. The former is usually from BKB. The latter is where your DPS items like MKB and Butterfly comes in. The problem with transitioning to DPS is that you can't achieve both at a good timing. You are playing catch up from the start, as you are not allocated resources. When you get your BKB, you have no damage to hurt the enemy. Your usefulness comes just from your spells. When you finally add your first damage item to it, it is not painful enough to be a threat then due to enemies' having more HP/armour/mobility etc. As such, I believe getting utility items would be a better choice. In the scenario where your mid/offlane do not soak up much farm (Nyx, Puck, Clock etc), then perhaps you could make that transition since there are resources available for you to do so.
Well what utility items would you suggest? You don't go mek on gyro and even if you did, it would come pretty late I'd imagine unless you went it over euls, which might not be horrible. But after that for a 4th/5th item, what do you get utility wise that wouldn't be just getting an item for the sake of continuing to be utility, pipe is situationally useful, crimson guard has a timing peak and isn't really a gyro item, eblade might as well be a butterfly, I guess atos could be an okay followup since it gives nice HP with gyro's high armor and gives you a bunch of int with a nice slow, but that still leaves other slots to fill which I can't see why not to go DPS or survivability. What items would you propose viable past 30 minutes that qualify as utility? That's a genuine question because I definitely can't think of anything.
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Scythe of Vyse seems like a reasonable suggestion from his list. Your team can always use more hard disable.
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On February 07 2015 08:03 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2015 01:44 DucK- wrote:On February 04 2015 19:21 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On February 03 2015 16:13 evanthebouncy! wrote:I've been spamming offlane gyro for the past week. Basing my build after Slasher. Opening with 2x gaunlet, tango, ring of protection. Contest rune is easy with barrage and teammates. But back off if 3+ enemy shows up. In lane just leech and try to last hit. If they try to zone you just rocket barrage. Camp runes when profitable. Build tranquil boots, and rush bottle. Then rush urn and participate in fights. Gyro has high armour but low hp, so urn will almost heal him full. In fights just stay back and time your ultimate, missile on their brawlers whom have to stay to deal damage. I think magic wand is great pickup too. Go ham when they're weak, because going in too eagerly with barrage in team fight is too dangerous. After that is where I want to make a case of getting an orchid. It's incredible utility and very often your orchid timing is so fast they haven't got time to buy bkb. Eul is quite Meh IMO. Eul comes in weird components and neither help with your damage, and cyclone is only useful for solo kills, and even then the enemy can react if they see you as you have to lay down the rocket first before Eul. Orchid is always strong, atk speed and damage, mana regeneration, silence! In teamfight now just play like warlock. Wait in back and cast your chaotic offerings and upheaval (your ultimate ) and silence one guy and missile and urn the other. Don't dive the backline unless to orchid someone important. Fight with your team in front line, see who's beating on your teammates and barrage his face off and missile him to force him back. I would recommend against transition to dps. Keep playing utility, i rush eblade alot, and i also get Eul or force, or sheep. To dps gyro you need both damage and survival, so Mkb,bkb,helm to start. You will never catch up that way. Bear in mind you been maxing out missile and barrage, and you can't flash farm dps items at this point. You will just keep fighting with your 50cd ultimate and continously buy utility This is unranked. My ranked is 4.1k so take it with grains of salt. http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1208456546 I agree with most of what you said, but I really don't like your eblade itemization. It seems gimmicky, as eblade does on most heroes. I see no reason not to transition into damage, you are right that you can't flash farm well without flak, but you aren't getting stats over flak, so you will naturally get it from teamfights and pickoffs. Even 1 level of flak lets you farm pretty well in conjunction with rocket barrage. I think another HP item apart from the urn is probably required, so maybe the bkb after? I never tried orchid, but it sounds like it could be okay. SNY comes to mind to give you more chase and mobility in fights, as well as the obvious tankability. When I carry with him I generally favor the casual yasha anyway for increased farming efficiency so I don't think SNY is too bad in place of the bkb for getting hp early on. I disagree with the transition to DPS. For Gyro to be relevant DPS wise, he needs both survivalbility and damage. The former is usually from BKB. The latter is where your DPS items like MKB and Butterfly comes in. The problem with transitioning to DPS is that you can't achieve both at a good timing. You are playing catch up from the start, as you are not allocated resources. When you get your BKB, you have no damage to hurt the enemy. Your usefulness comes just from your spells. When you finally add your first damage item to it, it is not painful enough to be a threat then due to enemies' having more HP/armour/mobility etc. As such, I believe getting utility items would be a better choice. In the scenario where your mid/offlane do not soak up much farm (Nyx, Puck, Clock etc), then perhaps you could make that transition since there are resources available for you to do so. Well what utility items would you suggest? You don't go mek on gyro and even if you did, it would come pretty late I'd imagine unless you went it over euls, which might not be horrible. But after that for a 4th/5th item, what do you get utility wise that wouldn't be just getting an item for the sake of continuing to be utility, pipe is situationally useful, crimson guard has a timing peak and isn't really a gyro item, eblade might as well be a butterfly, I guess atos could be an okay followup since it gives nice HP with gyro's high armor and gives you a bunch of int with a nice slow, but that still leaves other slots to fill which I can't see why not to go DPS or survivability. What items would you propose viable past 30 minutes that qualify as utility? That's a genuine question because I definitely can't think of anything.
Has anybody tried RFO? I've never tried it but would his mana pool be able to support it if you went Eul's + Force? You can pop all of his skills from long range outside of Rocket Barrage so he would make good use of it. Plus the 40 damage on RFO wouldn't be a complete waste on him. Seems to be better than trying to transition with a BKB + DPS items.
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The full RFO combo would be Homing Missile, Eul's, Calldown, activate Flak, refresh, Eul's a second target, Calldown, Homing Missile, rocket Barrage + 6 right clicks, re-activate Flak, Rocket Barrage + 6 right clicks.
That's 1,355 mana. A level 25 Gyrocopter with +16 Int from Eul's and RFO has 1417 mana. So it works, barely.
The bigger problem is how long the combo takes; 6 seconds into the fight, he still hasn't used more than 1 Flak charge unless he's willing to waste some of them on Euls'd targets. And it doesn't fully pay off for another 11 attacks.
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He doesnt have skills that are good enough to buy a rfo for imo.
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I don't think I would even consider a refresher on gyro unless you have a hex. Even then, that's a lot of gold just for a second hex. How would you get so farmed on a utility gyro?
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On February 07 2015 08:03 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2015 01:44 DucK- wrote:On February 04 2015 19:21 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On February 03 2015 16:13 evanthebouncy! wrote:I've been spamming offlane gyro for the past week. Basing my build after Slasher. Opening with 2x gaunlet, tango, ring of protection. Contest rune is easy with barrage and teammates. But back off if 3+ enemy shows up. In lane just leech and try to last hit. If they try to zone you just rocket barrage. Camp runes when profitable. Build tranquil boots, and rush bottle. Then rush urn and participate in fights. Gyro has high armour but low hp, so urn will almost heal him full. In fights just stay back and time your ultimate, missile on their brawlers whom have to stay to deal damage. I think magic wand is great pickup too. Go ham when they're weak, because going in too eagerly with barrage in team fight is too dangerous. After that is where I want to make a case of getting an orchid. It's incredible utility and very often your orchid timing is so fast they haven't got time to buy bkb. Eul is quite Meh IMO. Eul comes in weird components and neither help with your damage, and cyclone is only useful for solo kills, and even then the enemy can react if they see you as you have to lay down the rocket first before Eul. Orchid is always strong, atk speed and damage, mana regeneration, silence! In teamfight now just play like warlock. Wait in back and cast your chaotic offerings and upheaval (your ultimate ) and silence one guy and missile and urn the other. Don't dive the backline unless to orchid someone important. Fight with your team in front line, see who's beating on your teammates and barrage his face off and missile him to force him back. I would recommend against transition to dps. Keep playing utility, i rush eblade alot, and i also get Eul or force, or sheep. To dps gyro you need both damage and survival, so Mkb,bkb,helm to start. You will never catch up that way. Bear in mind you been maxing out missile and barrage, and you can't flash farm dps items at this point. You will just keep fighting with your 50cd ultimate and continously buy utility This is unranked. My ranked is 4.1k so take it with grains of salt. http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1208456546 I agree with most of what you said, but I really don't like your eblade itemization. It seems gimmicky, as eblade does on most heroes. I see no reason not to transition into damage, you are right that you can't flash farm well without flak, but you aren't getting stats over flak, so you will naturally get it from teamfights and pickoffs. Even 1 level of flak lets you farm pretty well in conjunction with rocket barrage. I think another HP item apart from the urn is probably required, so maybe the bkb after? I never tried orchid, but it sounds like it could be okay. SNY comes to mind to give you more chase and mobility in fights, as well as the obvious tankability. When I carry with him I generally favor the casual yasha anyway for increased farming efficiency so I don't think SNY is too bad in place of the bkb for getting hp early on. I disagree with the transition to DPS. For Gyro to be relevant DPS wise, he needs both survivalbility and damage. The former is usually from BKB. The latter is where your DPS items like MKB and Butterfly comes in. The problem with transitioning to DPS is that you can't achieve both at a good timing. You are playing catch up from the start, as you are not allocated resources. When you get your BKB, you have no damage to hurt the enemy. Your usefulness comes just from your spells. When you finally add your first damage item to it, it is not painful enough to be a threat then due to enemies' having more HP/armour/mobility etc. As such, I believe getting utility items would be a better choice. In the scenario where your mid/offlane do not soak up much farm (Nyx, Puck, Clock etc), then perhaps you could make that transition since there are resources available for you to do so. Well what utility items would you suggest? You don't go mek on gyro and even if you did, it would come pretty late I'd imagine unless you went it over euls, which might not be horrible. But after that for a 4th/5th item, what do you get utility wise that wouldn't be just getting an item for the sake of continuing to be utility, pipe is situationally useful, crimson guard has a timing peak and isn't really a gyro item, eblade might as well be a butterfly, I guess atos could be an okay followup since it gives nice HP with gyro's high armor and gives you a bunch of int with a nice slow, but that still leaves other slots to fill which I can't see why not to go DPS or survivability. What items would you propose viable past 30 minutes that qualify as utility? That's a genuine question because I definitely can't think of anything.
Halberd linkens hex eul pipe force atos eblade dagon abyssal etc. Many items depending on situation.
And refresher orb makes little sense unless you're a carry gyro.
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United States47024 Posts
Yeah, the only skill that's strong enough to refresh is a 6 item Gyro's Flak Cannon. Double Ulti isn't really outstanding compared to another item active + better stats at that cost.
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On February 08 2015 03:40 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2015 08:03 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On February 05 2015 01:44 DucK- wrote:On February 04 2015 19:21 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On February 03 2015 16:13 evanthebouncy! wrote:I've been spamming offlane gyro for the past week. Basing my build after Slasher. Opening with 2x gaunlet, tango, ring of protection. Contest rune is easy with barrage and teammates. But back off if 3+ enemy shows up. In lane just leech and try to last hit. If they try to zone you just rocket barrage. Camp runes when profitable. Build tranquil boots, and rush bottle. Then rush urn and participate in fights. Gyro has high armour but low hp, so urn will almost heal him full. In fights just stay back and time your ultimate, missile on their brawlers whom have to stay to deal damage. I think magic wand is great pickup too. Go ham when they're weak, because going in too eagerly with barrage in team fight is too dangerous. After that is where I want to make a case of getting an orchid. It's incredible utility and very often your orchid timing is so fast they haven't got time to buy bkb. Eul is quite Meh IMO. Eul comes in weird components and neither help with your damage, and cyclone is only useful for solo kills, and even then the enemy can react if they see you as you have to lay down the rocket first before Eul. Orchid is always strong, atk speed and damage, mana regeneration, silence! In teamfight now just play like warlock. Wait in back and cast your chaotic offerings and upheaval (your ultimate ) and silence one guy and missile and urn the other. Don't dive the backline unless to orchid someone important. Fight with your team in front line, see who's beating on your teammates and barrage his face off and missile him to force him back. I would recommend against transition to dps. Keep playing utility, i rush eblade alot, and i also get Eul or force, or sheep. To dps gyro you need both damage and survival, so Mkb,bkb,helm to start. You will never catch up that way. Bear in mind you been maxing out missile and barrage, and you can't flash farm dps items at this point. You will just keep fighting with your 50cd ultimate and continously buy utility This is unranked. My ranked is 4.1k so take it with grains of salt. http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1208456546 I agree with most of what you said, but I really don't like your eblade itemization. It seems gimmicky, as eblade does on most heroes. I see no reason not to transition into damage, you are right that you can't flash farm well without flak, but you aren't getting stats over flak, so you will naturally get it from teamfights and pickoffs. Even 1 level of flak lets you farm pretty well in conjunction with rocket barrage. I think another HP item apart from the urn is probably required, so maybe the bkb after? I never tried orchid, but it sounds like it could be okay. SNY comes to mind to give you more chase and mobility in fights, as well as the obvious tankability. When I carry with him I generally favor the casual yasha anyway for increased farming efficiency so I don't think SNY is too bad in place of the bkb for getting hp early on. I disagree with the transition to DPS. For Gyro to be relevant DPS wise, he needs both survivalbility and damage. The former is usually from BKB. The latter is where your DPS items like MKB and Butterfly comes in. The problem with transitioning to DPS is that you can't achieve both at a good timing. You are playing catch up from the start, as you are not allocated resources. When you get your BKB, you have no damage to hurt the enemy. Your usefulness comes just from your spells. When you finally add your first damage item to it, it is not painful enough to be a threat then due to enemies' having more HP/armour/mobility etc. As such, I believe getting utility items would be a better choice. In the scenario where your mid/offlane do not soak up much farm (Nyx, Puck, Clock etc), then perhaps you could make that transition since there are resources available for you to do so. Well what utility items would you suggest? You don't go mek on gyro and even if you did, it would come pretty late I'd imagine unless you went it over euls, which might not be horrible. But after that for a 4th/5th item, what do you get utility wise that wouldn't be just getting an item for the sake of continuing to be utility, pipe is situationally useful, crimson guard has a timing peak and isn't really a gyro item, eblade might as well be a butterfly, I guess atos could be an okay followup since it gives nice HP with gyro's high armor and gives you a bunch of int with a nice slow, but that still leaves other slots to fill which I can't see why not to go DPS or survivability. What items would you propose viable past 30 minutes that qualify as utility? That's a genuine question because I definitely can't think of anything. Halberd linkens hex eul pipe force atos eblade dagon abyssal etc. Many items depending on situation. And refresher orb makes little sense unless you're a carry gyro.
The only item that seems not just situationally good is the Scythe, which is good on every hero. Halberd doesn't seem terrible, the euls from a non core position feels like it comes too late to be good for ganking, but I suppose it still could be somewhat useful. I guess I will try to think about it a little more and see if any games feel like more utiltiy would make sense when compared to what you can get from a higher DPS item. There are definitely some games where going full utility could be good, but I think most games a DPS transition just makes too much sense. IE: Maybe you want a halberd after an early euls, but force, atos, etc aren't really required so an MKB or bfly would be the better call.
I can definitely see the point about not being tanky enough when transitioning to DPS.
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Don't be too quick to discount the eblade
Back when it disabled your attack, I agree that it would be a gimicky move. And while it's not the highest damage option out there, 40 agi is not an insignificant amount of damage. The eblade nuke range also makes it convenient for finishing off stragglers that might otherwise get away.
But really I think the main value is that it now does the same thing a halberd does in team fights. It will force out bkb/manta and if the target doesn't have a bkb, they are really screwed as it sets up a homing missile nicely.
It's a nice way to transition from nuker to right clicker because it complements both and provides team fight utility.
You are right that the hero doesn't take care of business fast enough to prevent tp reactions and such, but I think that if you're trying to be a sneaky ganker past the early game, you're not really leveraging the hero's strength. He shines in 5v5s so that's what the team should be trying to create when using a gyro.
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This hero is atrocious but so hilariously OP in the first five minutes. I roam from minute 0 and usually get FB and snipe the courier.
Key notes: boots first, midas, blademail, skip homing for max rocket/flak to go full macro mode after the early game. His jungle game is pretty great.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hJeV4tZ.png)
Yes, I roamed all those games from the start with boots + 3 clarities lmao
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singsing will be dissapointed from the lack of oov in conjunction with boot
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On April 05 2015 06:24 paper wrote:This hero is atrocious but so hilariously OP in the first five minutes. I roam from minute 0 and usually get FB and snipe the courier. Key notes: boots first, midas, blademail, skip homing for max rocket/flak to go full macro mode after the early game. His jungle game is pretty great. Yes, I roamed all those games from the start with boots + 3 clarities lmao
Why the blademail?
On another note: After seeing c9 playing him support. Homing missile can tank 6 towerhits at lvl1 so maybe he can combo well as ac support with a towerdiver like weaver (or you can combo the missile lvl1 with a garanteed sunstrike).
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Homing missile is best early game, why skip that?
So hard to deal with as well
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Yea why skip missile. Boots first is so good though.
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I agree. Blink force rocket missile spam is the only fun way to play this hero, tbh
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I like Gyro Carry, but I'm never sure of what items to get.
I often like going this build;
Aquilla-->Phase-->Bracer-->(BKB if i Need)Drums-->(Bkb?)Yasha-->(Bkb?)Sange-->Bkb-->Satanic/Butterfly
Mostly I'm wondering if there is something better than SnY for Gyro, and what i should get after my SnY and BKB
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i think phase > roa/drums/(wand/bottle) > sny/bkb/(sedge/hotd) > mkb/bfly/(skadi/satanic/abyssal)
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Any suggestions for gyro support items? You want damage and utility in one item. You need HP and MP. Most games I end up making wand, arcane (assuming allies need mana) and then just do whatever seems to suit the game.
Lotus, glimmer seems strong for saving an ally.
I guess Eul could work as well, but using it to connect rocket is kind of pointless since it will be short.
Heaven's Halberd is always good on supports since it gives HP and miss chance.
Just wondering if there is some item that is just great and must have in 50% + of the games.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On May 11 2015 06:00 Yurie wrote:
Any suggestions for gyro support items? You want damage and utility in one item. You need HP and MP. Most games I end up making wand, arcane and then just do whatever seems to suit the game. Lotus, glimmer seems strong. I guess Eul could work as well, but using it connect rocket is kind of pointless since it will be short.
Veil? HP/MP/Damage all in one item, granted, little utility.
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On May 11 2015 06:02 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2015 06:00 Yurie wrote:
Any suggestions for gyro support items? You want damage and utility in one item. You need HP and MP. Most games I end up making wand, arcane and then just do whatever seems to suit the game. Lotus, glimmer seems strong. I guess Eul could work as well, but using it connect rocket is kind of pointless since it will be short. Veil? HP/MP/Damage all in one item, granted, little utility.
If allies need it it seems a good item. You also have a lot of magic damage, hadn't considered it.
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Positional type items are very good on support Gyro. Eul's is very good not just to combo with missile but for the movement speed (to stay in Barrage range) and mana management. After that I typically get a Force Staff for it's utility as it can be used to get into Barrage range or get yourself or an ally out of trouble. Remember you can also Force Staff your Missile now too.
After that I just continue to build whatever is needed by the team. I guess Veil is ok depending on the amount of magic damage on your team but honestly at this point in the game Vlads would be better in the vast majority of scenarios. Vlads also lets you jungle too if you think the game is going late.
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playing gyro with a good wisp player offlane is fun
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I played 2-3 games with Eul now and have to say that I liked Veil more (unless facing instakill stuff). The biggest problem with Eul is that I end up position 5-6 until like min 30 when cores stop farming for some reason and I can play catch up. So I basically have boots, wand, wards and parts of Eul.
Perhaps Eul is one of those snowball items for support gyro if it is a good game but not core in normal games.
What are the small items you want before it? Aquila if nobody else has it (later vlads)? Boots upgrades seem a must due to how late the Eul ends up being. Upside to upgrading after Euls being since it is so late the only valid boots are travels.
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On May 10 2015 22:27 Rodrak wrote:
I like Gyro Carry, but I'm never sure of what items to get.
I often like going this build;
Aquilla-->Phase-->Bracer-->(BKB if i Need)Drums-->(Bkb?)Yasha-->(Bkb?)Sange-->Bkb-->Satanic/Butterfly
Mostly I'm wondering if there is something better than SnY for Gyro, and what i should get after my SnY and BKB
That's an aggro build to group and forcefights/take towers. The ultra greedy route (which is kinda sad on such a good early/midgame fighter) is midas HotD to stack ancients. Gyro is not as good as he used to be at farming ancients but he's still good, so hotd is picked very often, even more in pubs when supports won't always stack ancients for you. S&Y is very defensive, going MKB is the more standard route. Butterfly should be situationally very good this patch with the buff it received, I have not tested yet. Then it's up to every game to balance damage, tankiness and utility.
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On May 12 2015 15:21 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 22:27 Rodrak wrote:
I like Gyro Carry, but I'm never sure of what items to get.
I often like going this build;
Aquilla-->Phase-->Bracer-->(BKB if i Need)Drums-->(Bkb?)Yasha-->(Bkb?)Sange-->Bkb-->Satanic/Butterfly
Mostly I'm wondering if there is something better than SnY for Gyro, and what i should get after my SnY and BKB That's an aggro build to group and forcefights/take towers. The ultra greedy route (which is kinda sad on such a good early/midgame fighter) is midas HotD to stack ancients. Gyro is not as good as he used to be at farming ancients but he's still good, so hotd is picked very often, even more in pubs when supports won't always stack ancients for you. S&Y is very defensive, going MKB is the more standard route. Butterfly should be situationally very good this patch with the buff it received, I have not tested yet. Then it's up to every game to balance damage, tankiness and utility.
Why midas, seems shit when you can just get a faster hod and then get damage items to boost your farm rate, its not like Gyro desperately needs level 16.
I have only played like 5 games this patch of gyro but I find phase->wand->aquila->hotd->sny->(bkb)->butter works well. I have never really liked getting mkb unless you need anti-evasion, butter helps your manfighting alot which is great too.
Is drum good, it was the thing to do last time gyro was popular but is it still worth the delay to damage items in this version? Maybe for some hyper-aggro deathball but I don't know if I'd be confident enough in my team mates to pull it off in pubs.
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Drum is as always an early fighting item. If you expect to go from fight to farm to fight and nobody has arcane in your team you need something for mana.
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How has the cast point change make gyro into a top pick material? I mean before the change, you are still afraid of being isolated with rocket barrage. Is it primarily because of that short stop delay you had when you cast barrage that affected your ability to stick to targets?
I honestly did not play gyro often, but I don't recall ever having much trouble sticking to targets then.
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Maybe it's simply just quicker to move and shoot and that made a difference. IDK it surprised me too, I'm sure there's math somewhere but it definitely feels so much easier to pop it and continue moving than it did previously.
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On May 15 2015 00:51 Surprise.820 wrote:
Maybe it's simply just quicker to move and shoot and that made a difference. IDK it surprised me too, I'm sure there's math somewhere but it definitely feels so much easier to pop it and continue moving than it did previously.
I mean I don't deny that it is a buff. But is it that significant that made gyro a top pick suddenly? I just feel that you could do what you're doing now even in the previous patch.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On May 15 2015 00:56 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2015 00:51 Surprise.820 wrote:
Maybe it's simply just quicker to move and shoot and that made a difference. IDK it surprised me too, I'm sure there's math somewhere but it definitely feels so much easier to pop it and continue moving than it did previously. I mean I don't deny that it is a buff. But is it that significant that made gyro a top pick suddenly? I just feel that you could do what you're doing now even in the previous patch.
Gyro was a decent hero as long as sniper/troll/jugg were not in the game in previous patch as well. Him being buffed on top of those heroes eradicated from comp play for a time obviously make him a top pick. And yes, it's actually ridiculous buff in hindsight.
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It's the inverse of the lesh edict animation change
Instantly went from first pick to unpickable because animations matter, especially on the kind of ability where you merely run around letting it do the damage.
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I'm wondering why Homing Missle is still ignored in pro play that missle is ridic damage and can be situational good.
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On May 15 2015 02:06 Surprise.820 wrote:
I'm wondering why Homing Missle is still ignored in pro play that missle is ridic damage and can be situational good.
Homing Missile usefulness is mainly in the laning phase. Outside of it, you are not going to rely on it to stun targets or nuke heroes despite the ridiculous damage. So you have to consider what you want in the laning phase. In certain dual lanes, Missile spam helps you win lanes. In other lanes, you don't need to rely on missile if you have set up for Barrage.
For the midlane though, you really want Missile.
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Missile is great when sieging. Either side. You have the time to get multiple ones out and they either all go for it or it will hit. Both things are good in a siege setting.
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Yeah my question is sure why not get stats over it if you don't need it but always neglecting it until lvl 22 like 2 years ago seems a little too far.
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On May 15 2015 00:56 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2015 00:51 Surprise.820 wrote:
Maybe it's simply just quicker to move and shoot and that made a difference. IDK it surprised me too, I'm sure there's math somewhere but it definitely feels so much easier to pop it and continue moving than it did previously. I mean I don't deny that it is a buff. But is it that significant that made gyro a top pick suddenly? I just feel that you could do what you're doing now even in the previous patch.
The change has made Gyrocopter less dependent on Phase Boot activations to get off a full Rocket Barrage on a target. Previously, the casting delay let someone just in range duck out of it, so Phase Boots needed to be used early to get on top of the target before casting (wasting some Phase duration) or after casting to chase (wasting the first few rockets). Now, Gyrocopter can cast then Phase to chase with full effect, or go aggro with no boots advantage.
Also, pubbers who didn't cancel the backswing now actually get chase with it.
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As an offlaner i have learned to despise this hero.
When he supports he can zone you super easy and if he ever gets in range u take a million dmg  .
Also he is even more awesome at the early game bounty rune fights now.
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Is he best as safe lane carry or as a support? Or can he really roll either?
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I like him as a zoning support against melee offlaners like tide ds cent, marginally less against undying who can just stay in the creeps and kill you so your rocket doesn't do much. against ranged offlaners it's a tossup
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Gyro is the best 2v1 support in the game with a good carry making a stable lane far away from opponent tower. He sucks in most 2v2 or 3v3 lanes due to fighting in creeps making barrage do nothing. It is hard to gank with him since rocket is a harrassing tool and not a ganking tool. Meaning you need a setup or coming from fog so they don't see you until you can start barraging them.
The comeback is that the rocket spam + ulti can slow or even stop pushes. Meaning you have time getting back into the game. You also have great farming tools for a support (since he is also a great carry). So you can split push or soak up free farm very quickly. Leading to a pretty farmed support.
Problem with Gyro as a support is that if you keep active (as this patch often forces) you run out of mana. You need mana items a lot and don't really have a great item that makes your hero much stronger. The Aghs upgrade doesn't give enough to warrant the cost and the rest standard support items doesn't really synergize with the hero. Thus it is very hard to judge the correct items for the game. On the other side it means you can get whatever is good in the game without feeling like you are gimping your hero.
The very low HP pool makes positioning crucial, especially since your strongest nuke is melee range.
To contrast though he is played as carry like 90% of the time in pro play.
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Euls synergizes VERY well with gyro but the mana nerfs to euls and gyro hurt a LOT, I'd be surprised if he becomes a viable support in professional games any time soon.
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On May 15 2015 00:56 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2015 00:51 Surprise.820 wrote:
Maybe it's simply just quicker to move and shoot and that made a difference. IDK it surprised me too, I'm sure there's math somewhere but it definitely feels so much easier to pop it and continue moving than it did previously. I mean I don't deny that it is a buff. But is it that significant that made gyro a top pick suddenly? I just feel that you could do what you're doing now even in the previous patch.
I think it is just a combination of little things:
-Troll+sniper both nerfed, those heroes both raped gyro
-Undying super strong, gyro one of the few heroes who can deal with him. Not 100% sure but if flak hits visage birds then he is good vs that hero too.
-Rocket buff makes his already strong laning phase even better
-Meta shift to laning phase/earlygame fighting suiting gyro's playstyle
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On May 15 2015 11:29 Clarty wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2015 00:56 DucK- wrote:On May 15 2015 00:51 Surprise.820 wrote:
Maybe it's simply just quicker to move and shoot and that made a difference. IDK it surprised me too, I'm sure there's math somewhere but it definitely feels so much easier to pop it and continue moving than it did previously. I mean I don't deny that it is a buff. But is it that significant that made gyro a top pick suddenly? I just feel that you could do what you're doing now even in the previous patch. I think it is just a combination of little things: -Troll+sniper both nerfed, those heroes both raped gyro -Undying super strong, gyro one of the few heroes who can deal with him. Not 100% sure but if flak hits visage birds then he is good vs that hero too. -Rocket buff makes his already strong laning phase even better -Meta shift to laning phase/earlygame fighting suiting gyro's playstyle
Flak now hits birds against after the 3 hit change but it should not
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is it still worth to do roaming gyro with the rocket nerf and the mana nerf?
Just feel weak now
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SoCal8910 Posts
how are people building him this patch?
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Isnt gyro items fairly set in stone except for the first item?
Lategame you'll pretty much always want boots of choice+BKB+MKB+bfly+satanic+1. The +1 can be stuff like a crit, sny (if sny was first item) or linken i guess. Or even a utility item like hex or abyssal as 6th item isnt terrible either.
The most diversity seems to be the first item really. Aquila and bracer, then some do drums, some do yasha, some do SnY, some do straight BKB. After that you get the items above and only really the 6th item differs.
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On May 25 2015 23:47 Kreb wrote:
Isnt gyro items fairly set in stone except for the first item?
Lategame you'll pretty much always want boots of choice+BKB+MKB+bfly+satanic+1. The +1 can be stuff like a crit, sny (if sny was first item) or linken i guess. Or even a utility item like hex or abyssal as 6th item isnt terrible either.
The most diversity seems to be the first item really. Aquila and bracer, then some do drums, some do yasha, some do SnY, some do straight BKB. After that you get the items above and only really the 6th item differs.
Refresher is pretty decent +1 option too. But yea this guy is right about gyro items.
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Assuming there's no urgency for a BKB you can opt for a S&Y or another Yasha or Sange part.
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On May 25 2015 23:47 Kreb wrote:
Isnt gyro items fairly set in stone except for the first item?
Lategame you'll pretty much always want boots of choice+BKB+MKB+bfly+satanic+1. The +1 can be stuff like a crit, sny (if sny was first item) or linken i guess. Or even a utility item like hex or abyssal as 6th item isnt terrible either.
The most diversity seems to be the first item really. Aquila and bracer, then some do drums, some do yasha, some do SnY, some do straight BKB. After that you get the items above and only really the 6th item differs.
If I'm not having a bad start i generally get a wand over bracer as you never really want to go drums if possible. Unless your meaning bracer and wand when i think you mean bracer and stick (as its rare to skip stick just because its so useful and only has a 100 gold cost once sold back)
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SnY is super nice now that splitting them up on an agi carry for Manta + 1 is viable when +1 is silver edge.
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On June 05 2015 00:10 hariooo wrote:
SnY is super nice now that splitting them up on an agi carry for Manta + 1 is viable when +1 is silver edge.
You're likely to not want either though.
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On June 05 2015 07:39 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 00:10 hariooo wrote:
SnY is super nice now that splitting them up on an agi carry for Manta + 1 is viable when +1 is silver edge. You're likely to not want either though.
Silver's Edge is somewhat useful against anti-carry like heroes that ruin your day like Bristleback.
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On June 05 2015 14:14 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 07:39 DucK- wrote:On June 05 2015 00:10 hariooo wrote:
SnY is super nice now that splitting them up on an agi carry for Manta + 1 is viable when +1 is silver edge. You're likely to not want either though. Silver's Edge is somewhat useful against anti-carry like heroes that ruin your day like Bristleback.
Bkb on bb kinda makes it not useful anymore though. Can't really see a good item progression to include silver edge that exploits the window before bb has bkb.
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Honestly if BB has to buy bkb that's kind of a win
The SE manta split is definitely more useful on a Slark style hero but I still think it's somewhat viable on gyro. One of the issues of banking void/pa/bristle is that they might live through the burst but if you break them while they're disabled that can make a big difference.
Tbh I don't even like sny on gyro so to me this is suboptimal in the first place
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United States47024 Posts
BB's probably going to get BKB vs. Gyro anyway though, Silver Edge or not.
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On June 05 2015 22:56 TheYango wrote:
BB's probably going to get BKB vs. Gyro anyway though, Silver Edge or not.
Considering how bkb becomes less and less useful in every passing patch, I can see he can survive with better teamwork and other items.
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United States47024 Posts
Except the nature of Gyro and BB's power growth against one another favors getting a BKB regardless.
Gyro's power growth as a carry is such that he relies heavily on Rocket Barrage to manfight melee carries. His power growth as a carry is heavily slanted toward Flak Cannon's ability to damage the backline. He by comparison does very little to improve his ability to fight strong manfighting or strong tanky frontline melee heroes. In order to stay competitive against those heroes, he has to leverage his ability to fight them with spells that punish being a singular hero standing in Gyro's face (Rocket Barrage).
BB essentially just has to get over the hump where Rocket Barrage is dangerous to him. By the time BKB durations go down, Gyro's magic damage isn't dangerous to him anymore anyway, and Gyro's manfighting ability doesn't pick up to compensate.
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Just bullied a SF to ragequit with rocket gyro build -_-. Early game if he doesnt back off once he get stunned just go up and barrage, easy kill. And then when you get 6, rocket+ulti another easy kill, you can even tower dive there is nothing a hero like SF can do at all. Stupid hero is strong this patch.
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On July 18 2015 20:46 BurningSera wrote:
Just bullied a SF to ragequit with rocket gyro build -_-. Early game if he doesnt back off once he get stunned just go up and barrage, easy kill. And then when you get 6, rocket+ulti another easy kill, you can even tower dive there is nothing a hero like SF can do at all. Stupid hero is strong this patch.
gotta have been a pretty bad sf...
if you max missile and rocket, he can just avoid you and outfarm you pretty easily... while with 441 you've got pressure to snowball your team or just get outlategamed
also i think the counterplay to missile spam is to just stand in the creepwave so the missile does min damage and rocket can't all hit you
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On July 19 2015 01:52 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
also i think the counterplay to missile spam is to just stand in the creepwave so the missile does min damage and rocket can't all hit you
This is extremely risky. It may work if the Gyro's trying to solo kill you, but puts you in a terrible position if he's telegraphing a smoke gank.
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On July 19 2015 01:52 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 20:46 BurningSera wrote:
Just bullied a SF to ragequit with rocket gyro build -_-. Early game if he doesnt back off once he get stunned just go up and barrage, easy kill. And then when you get 6, rocket+ulti another easy kill, you can even tower dive there is nothing a hero like SF can do at all. Stupid hero is strong this patch. gotta have been a pretty bad sf... if you max missile and rocket, he can just avoid you and outfarm you pretty easily... while with 441 you've got pressure to snowball your team or just get outlategamed also i think the counterplay to missile spam is to just stand in the creepwave so the missile does min damage and rocket can't all hit you
I wouldn't be bothered to post that if the SF is shit. I have seen SF get destroyed by that (including myself...) so i do it myself and it is crazy how easy it is to play against SF. You highly misunderestimate the damage of rocket too from your tone lol.
And i think you forget one key point of a gyro against a SF, your attack animation is superior to heroes like SF, as gyro all you need to do is deny/last hit everything for the first 3-4mins and you can bully him to ragequit (thats what i did).
Obviously i didnt mean just pick gyro and sit back watch a SF gets all the last hits, you still cant do much when he pushed the lane to get the minute rune but if he made one mistake he is dead and he wont be able to come back; you will be able to get a bottle before SF if you do it right.
On July 19 2015 04:50 Buckyman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2015 01:52 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
also i think the counterplay to missile spam is to just stand in the creepwave so the missile does min damage and rocket can't all hit you This is extremely risky. It may work if the Gyro's trying to solo kill you, but puts you in a terrible position if he's telegraphing a smoke gank.
There is almost impossible to kill the rocket so if he stands with the creeps just A click him as usual; if he runs (and he should after he traded once or twice hp he knew he would die if he stayed), go up and barrage; a SF cant risk trading hp in early game.
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missile scales on distance traveled, as long as you see the supports haven't left the safelane, you just walk towards it to tank it... it's a lane that sf will have to bottle crow to survive in but it's not like it's impossible to survive and eventually catch up / outfarm
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I didnt mean it is impossible to play against gyro lol. I meant if he made 1 or 2 (minor) mistakes he is done for (which is pretty common in pub), if the gyro knows how to capitalize that.
also the mid gyro should get bottle for this to work.
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I had a discussion with a friend about Manta on Gyro? Your opinions people?
I find it useless in most of the cases but the apparent ones, dodging stuff etcetera, I just think its a waste of a slot.
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yep pretty bad and doesn't solve too many problems that your oft-mandatory bkb wouldnt anyway
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SoCal8910 Posts
even if there were no major threats that required a bkb, manta is still not good, i think lol
if you wanna turn a casual yasha into anything, you're probably better off with the sny
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I can only think of one good reason for manta - dealing with Techies mine-piles.
(E) ...as the only ranged hero on the team.
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On July 24 2015 09:15 Buckyman wrote:
I can only think of one good reason for manta - dealing with Techies mine-piles.
Still doesn't seem like a good reason.
Casual yasha on the other hand is pretty awesome.
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There's no need to upgrade the yasha. I don't even like sny. The only good reason for manta is against overgrowth. For everything else, bkb should suffice.
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dunno why you wouldn't upgrade casual yasha to sny it's definitely good
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Well in Gyro late game, the items that are essential are:
Boots + BKB + Satanic + MKB + Butterfly
Personally, for my last item I'd go either Daedalus, Rapier, or Manta (because you already have Yasha from HotD + Yasha opening) . I don't think SnY has much use on Gyro at all. Manta is better than most are giving it credit for. The DPS from illusions is significant, not to mention all the things you can Manta out of when you only have 5 seconds BKBs in the lategame.
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On July 24 2015 10:32 DucK- wrote:
There's no need to upgrade the yasha. I don't even like sny. The only good reason for manta is against overgrowth. For everything else, bkb should suffice.
Agreed for overgrowth. You get Manta for anything you want to get out of that you don't want to waste a bkb charge on. So Overgrowth...maybe a global silence if you are in the back lines...really not much. Most things imply you are being jumped and then you want to pop bkb anyway.
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SoCal8910 Posts
On July 24 2015 09:15 Buckyman wrote:
I can only think of one good reason for manta - dealing with Techies mine-piles.
(E) ...as the only ranged hero on the team.
even then, your range is pretty short..one mine will likely take out your illusion and then you've only killed one mine.
dunno, i don't think this is a valid reason to opt for the manta style lol
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By default manta always has more usefulness than sny in late game, but sny is more useful early on. Sny is often gotten on gyro as a source of bulk and for the yasha component, as well as a means to delay your bkb. I personally don't even go yasha on gyro, favouring an earlier bkb. Not saying that sny is bad though.
One of the biggest issues with players and their items, is that they seem compelled to upgrade every item. Sometimes you can just leave yasha as it is, buy other items first, and sell it after.
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SoCal8910 Posts
On July 24 2015 20:25 DucK- wrote:
By default manta always has more usefulness than sny in late game, but sny is more useful early on. Sny is often gotten on gyro as a source of bulk and for the yasha component, as well as a means to delay your bkb. I personally don't even go yasha on gyro, favouring an earlier bkb. Not saying that sny is bad though.
One of the biggest issues with players and their items, is that they seem compelled to upgrade every item. Sometimes you can just leave yasha as it is, buy other items first, and sell it after.
of course. but i think that, like was stated above, the only circumstance that you would upgrade a casual yasha into a manta is if you are playing against something that requires a dispel you don't want to waste a bkb charge on. however, there are very few circumstances that you wouldn't rather have the bkb. so to the point that sparked this debate, it is more often a waste of a slot.
however, should a player choose to get a yasha (which i personally like on agi carries that rely on movement speed to deal dmg, like gyro and his rocket barrage) SNY is a 2k upgrade from that beefs you up if you're even or ahead. i think i remember a pro commenting that if you can pick it up before like 15 minutes, in general, the value is there.
as with any item decision you're gonna need to pay attention to the status of the game and you can't say that this is an item you'll pick up every game because, like you said, it delays your bkb..which in some games is really really not good for gyro.
e: although as i post this, we're all pub players here..how many times have we seen a teammate blow up an illusion after a manta style is popped lol
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Recently I've taken to buying Yasha and an ogre club, and then deciding whether to build the club into Sange or BKB based on the tempo of the game.
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Forgive me if this was discussed already I looked for it in thread, but is agh's just not worth it on this hero? I haven't built it a single time and haven't really missed it in my experience. Seems that gold is better spent on damage and such.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
its maybe ok on support/utility gyro, but if u have the gold i dont see why u wudnt start transitioning into a core role
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Yesterday i saw some pro on TI (cant remember which one) build Skadi. Skadi is a item that i like to build in most carries, is it good on gyro?
I am seeing a lot of drums on gyro, when should i get one? When i shouldn't get one? Should you always get one?
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On July 28 2015 21:02 Deep Cocoa wrote:
Forgive me if this was discussed already I looked for it in thread, but is agh's just not worth it on this hero? I haven't built it a single time and haven't really missed it in my experience. Seems that gold is better spent on damage and such.
When I play support gyro, I rather get other items instead of a global ulti. When I'm doing well, I'd go Dagon eblade. If doing bad, then the usual glimmers and force.
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On July 28 2015 22:48 thiagoop wrote:
Yesterday i saw some pro on TI (cant remember which one) build Skadi. Skadi is a item that i like to build in most carries, is it good on gyro?
I am seeing a lot of drums on gyro, when should i get one? When i shouldn't get one? Should you always get one?
Whenever you feel that all your gyro needs now is bulk, just buy skadi.
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satanic over skadi in about 95% of games imo
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United States47024 Posts
They do different things. Skadi is more pure bulk against stuff that can catch you and risk 100-0ing you (e.g. Lina combo, BKB-piercing stuns, hexes, etc.). Satanic is more survivability/sustainability in situations where you actually get time to autoattack and fight back (e.g. enemy carry you have to manfight against).
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The pro Chinese's Gyro Skadis tend to be before you've got an MKB and want that bulk in dangerous games. Even if you do this, your damage will still be okay, rocket barrage is still sorta meaty and you can get some DMG through every little item pickup.
Oops bumped thread to next page, for discussion purposes:
On July 28 2015 23:44 Sn0_Man wrote:
satanic over skadi in about 95% of games imo
On July 29 2015 00:45 TheYango wrote:
They do different things. Skadi is more pure bulk against stuff that can catch you and risk 100-0ing you (e.g. Lina combo, BKB-piercing stuns, hexes, etc.). Satanic is more survivability/sustainability in situations where you actually get time to autoattack and fight back (e.g. enemy carry you have to manfight against).
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On July 28 2015 21:02 Deep Cocoa wrote:
Forgive me if this was discussed already I looked for it in thread, but is agh's just not worth it on this hero? I haven't built it a single time and haven't really missed it in my experience. Seems that gold is better spent on damage and such.
I would consider aghs in two (and a half) situations:
1) As a 7th or 8th slot, where it's used for global influence but is never in my inventory outside the fountain.
1b) As a 7th slot provided by an Alchemist.
2) At least three of my teammates have abandoned, so that I need to be able to push two lanes at once or die to split-push.
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If 3 or 4 of my teammates have abandoned, I no longer consider it a good use of my time to farm an aghs and try to win
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Which boots are you guys going these days?
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SoCal8910 Posts
vs the heroes in the metagame ATM, treads for some extra stats and to tread switch while using rocket barrage
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Tread switch is massively overrated. Judge whether you need the MS or the HP. You probably want the former most of the times.
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I'm with both of you. The early HP helps a lot. Was watching Illidan last night and he would go phase into sange, presumably to help with the durability, but that locks you into an SnY straight away.
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SoCal8910 Posts
On July 31 2015 17:05 DucK- wrote:
Tread switch is massively overrated. Judge whether you need the MS or the HP. You probably want the former most of the times.
lol tread switch is absolutely not overrated
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United States47024 Posts
On August 01 2015 01:04 BluemoonSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2015 17:05 DucK- wrote:
Tread switch is massively overrated. Judge whether you need the MS or the HP. You probably want the former most of the times. lol tread switch is absolutely not overrated
It is in the sense that it's never actually the primary motivating factor for buying Treads on heroes that buy it (even though it is a significant benefit of doing so), despite the fact that it's ubiquitously cited as such by people who don't actually know why you buy Treads on those heroes.
Treads vs. Phase banks heavily on whether you need the extra manfighting ability (which Treads is definitely superior for), or an extra 144 damage on Flak Cannon. A lot of the problem heroes that Gyro is going against at TI really demand that manfighting strength, but that's not always the case, especially in pubs.
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SoCal8910 Posts
if it is a significant benefit, how can it be called overrated?
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 01 2015 01:44 BluemoonSC wrote:
if it is a significant benefit, how can it be called overrated?
Because certain people treat it like it's better than it is.It is good, but not THAT good.
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On August 01 2015 02:04 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2015 01:44 BluemoonSC wrote:
if it is a significant benefit, how can it be called overrated? Because certain people treat it like it's better than it is.It is good, but not THAT good.
When it is the single biggest factor in determining whether or not you need to go back to base for mana during your farming 7-18 minutes then yes, yes it is that big of a deal.
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United States47024 Posts
Well, no, lack of Treads swap shouldn't ever mean the difference between going home and not. The mana savings aren't that aggressive. It's just going to affect the number of clarities you send yourself.
Significant, but again, not actually the primary motivating factor in your boot choice.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 01 2015 05:05 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2015 02:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 01 2015 01:44 BluemoonSC wrote:
if it is a significant benefit, how can it be called overrated? Because certain people treat it like it's better than it is.It is good, but not THAT good. When it is the single biggest factor in determining whether or not you need to go back to base for mana during your farming 7-18 minutes then yes, yes it is that big of a deal.
If you actively use rocket barrage for farming, you'll need to send out clarities regularly tread swap or not. And if you don't use it (farming with dominator creep, or just using flak as farming tool), treads win on DPS value over phase, once again, tread swapping or not.
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I only find tread swap to be a reason to choose them if I have a bottle. Using the bottle cancels phase and you have a pretty consistent boost to each bottle charge from swapping to agi. Gyro isn't really a common bottle hero so it doesn't factor into my mind much, the HP is the big reason but his awful range and ability to chase with barrage is a reason to get phase. The bottle/treads thing is why I typically get treads on SF/Puck.
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If you're on any typical phase boots hero it's perfectly fine to get treads instead if you need the HP. 171hp is pretty good and more items will add to that.
It's honestly that simple to me, Tread switching should come natural to any hero you play with treads.
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You have to look into context. Does Gyro desperately need the increased mana pool? Does Tread Switching make a world of difference to his mana usage? The answer is no. I dare say that Tread Switch has no influence to your decision to go Treads over Phase on Gyro. It is good, and should be treated as a bonus for the hero.
You could view it from the angle of MKB on heroes. Sure the damage is important, but you only get MKB for the True Strike. Nerf MKB's damage, and it still wouldn't affect your decision to get MKB.
The main reasons to get Treads is simply 1) Attack Speed and 2) 171 HP. The 3rd reason which is Tread Switching, only applies to certain heroes like Storm and other solo mid heroes that truly benefit from it. Gyro certainly isn't one of those heroes.
Why I say Tread Switching is overrated is because many people are justifying Treads pick up for the wrong reason.
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The main perk of phase boots, the reason why I buy them over power treads, is the Rocket Barrage -> Phase active -> Rocket Barrage combo for chasing.
Also, Phase Boots only add 90 damage to a full flak combo over Treads, since you can switch to Agi mode during the flakdown.
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people who say tread switching is the reason you go tread probably buys dumbells and use them as door stoppers
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If i'm offlane gyro and I hit 6 what should I be doing? Immediately looking for a kill with my ulti, farming jungle, what? Is maxing q and e always preferred over w in any lane? Seems like the thing now is phase>aquila>hod>sny(sange first??) and then what?
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for items, BKB if needed then MKB/Butter, finish satanic end game. If game is fight intensive, go sange first, if u expect to farm next 5 minutes, yasha first. And i like treads more but thats just my own prefs, i think both boots are fine.
For offlane i would get atleast one lvl to rocket if u are against 2 to mess up with the support (if he overextends, u can kill him alone)
When u hit 6 with gyro its usually go time but if other lanes are not gankable then just farm up lane / jungle.
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On December 14 2015 23:11 DazzleEnthusiast wrote:
If i'm offlane gyro and I hit 6 what should I be doing? Immediately looking for a kill with my ulti, farming jungle, what? Is maxing q and e always preferred over w in any lane? Seems like the thing now is phase>aquila>hod>sny(sange first??) and then what?
No.
When you're forced to play solo gyro on the offlane and expecting not to get much farm out of the lane, never play him like how you would as a standard carry gyro. You're just going to become a liability to the team and playing catch up from minute 0.
Max barrage and missile, one point flak. Don't pretend you're able to contribute DPS wise via flak at that stage when you don't have the required items. Missile has crazy good damage. You can use it to harass heroes away or as a follow up. Very few safelane farmers can handle the missile harass. Basically with just levels, you can contribute a lot via 3 different spells. If you're doing well for some reason, that's when you could be greedy and drop points in missile for more flak. Usually you won't have such a scenario though.
Item wise, whether or not you go the standard build depends on how much you foresee yourself getting out of the early phase. Don't pretend that a phase drums bkb gyro is useful when the opponent's cores are all 10k net worth. If you're able to, then be the additional carry. If you cannot, then get utility items. Eul to combo with missile. Glimmers, force, Dagon, halberd. All these are more useful than pretending to be a relevant core.
Don't underestimate the usefulness of a utility + Dagon 5 gyro. Ideally you want to become an additional DPS core, but sometimes you just don't get the space to be.
The same concept can apply to many carry heroes when forced to play without priority farm.
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Magic gyro is as real as magic ember. Just happened to random it and play it offlane. Got highest damage contribution end of game rofl.
Veil -> eblade -> octarine. I did get arcanes early because this hero has severe mana problems early if you do use homing missle, but i realise i had way too much mana in mid game. Well it still offer a build up to octarine later on, and spamming barrage to farm is pretty decent. Octarine with 20% CDR talent gives almost 100% uptime barrage which is around 200+ dps on top of right clicks.
Didn't really get a chance to explore lvl 25 talents as game ended before that. 30 dmg talent + eblade actually offer quite a bit of physical damage. +4 flak attacks actually sounds awesome to transition into a physical core too.
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On January 01 2017 08:42 babysimba wrote:
Magic gyro is as real as magic ember. Just happened to random it and play it offlane. Got highest damage contribution end of game rofl.
Veil -> eblade -> octarine. I did get arcanes early because this hero has severe mana problems early if you do use homing missle, but i realise i had way too much mana in mid game. Well it still offer a build up to octarine later on, and spamming barrage to farm is pretty decent. Octarine with 20% CDR talent gives almost 100% uptime barrage which is around 200+ dps on top of right clicks.
Didn't really get a chance to explore lvl 25 talents as game ended before that. 30 dmg talent + eblade actually offer quite a bit of physical damage. +4 flak attacks actually sounds awesome to transition into a physical core too.
Wanted to reply you but I realised the previous post was made by me. Still the same IMO. Maybe add veil since its cheap, but generally your damage on a lone target is enough without it anyway. Think octarine is overkill for caster build. Eblade Dagon is the way to go. Big targeted burst, because barrage is just not that good in late game.
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What's with the Agha mjol build. Lightning has zero synergy with flak, the skill which is the only reason why gyro is a carry. Then you spend 4.2k for a better chance to lightning. Pros and their builds...
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Well maelstrom is pretty much the carry item of the patch on ranged carry heroes. I wouldn't be surprised anymore if pros would build maelstrom on Luna after seeing it on weaver. Probably because mkb and daedalus are in the dumpster right now.
I assume the goal is to continue to frontline with him instead of relying on Flak cannon. It gives you additional aoe, so it synergizes with aghs random targeting (it proccs lightnings and clears units you don't want to attack with side gunner along with flak cannon). Mjolnir has a pretty good damage output on slowed/stationary targets. Mjolnir aghs bkb are a lot of fighting power.
That being said with aghs static attack time I assume that pure damage is better dps.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
aghs is the only item that makes gyro playable tbh
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On March 12 2017 11:01 Archeon wrote:
Well maelstrom is pretty much the carry item of the patch on ranged carry heroes. I wouldn't be surprised anymore if pros would build maelstrom on Luna after seeing it on weaver. Probably because mkb and daedalus are in the dumpster right now.
I assume the goal is to continue to frontline with him instead of relying on Flak cannon. It gives you additional aoe, so it synergizes with aghs random targeting (it proccs lightnings and clears units you don't want to attack with side gunner along with flak cannon). Mjolnir has a pretty good damage output on slowed/stationary targets. Mjolnir aghs bkb are a lot of fighting power.
That being said with aghs static attack time I assume that pure damage is better dps.
I see you trying your best to justify pro's stupid item decisions XD
Mael is good on most DPS ranged heroes like LD, sniper and Medusa is that these heroes are mainly reliant on their right clicks for damage, so you want to buff it up to get them online asap. Otherwise how are they to contribute? Furthermore the aoe helps them to farm faster. In Medusa's case, although she has split shot, it is quite pitiful damage without items.
Gyro's skills deal quite a lot of damage with just levels. You don't need mael to come online at all, plus you don't have good attack range for it. You don't need it to farm either because you have 3 spammable spells that can help you farm. Zero reason to invest in an item that has zero synergy with the hero, and then spend an additional 4.2k to buff that said item. You actually make the hero worst. The sole purpose of gyro as a carry is to maximise your damage for 6/10 hits. I'd say mael doesn't even make gyro come online faster, or at all.
Same thing goes for Luna.
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Yeah maelstrom Luna was a joke 
I think the ember comparison is quite good though. SoF scales way better with damage than AS but people have been building Mael after the goto item got nerfed. They just pretend to be a shitty drow with a lot of magic damage. It's more about keeping momentum than being optimally built 10 minutes later. Keeping momentum is one of the things Gyro struggles with though.
Btw considering that gyro runs into mana issues and that flak is not spammable at all I think that Mael actually boosts your farming speed considerably. Similarly to ember Gyro doesn't really profit from the additional AS during fights though.
Maelstrom has always been more or less standard on sniper and medusa, not on Weaver, Ember or Jugg though. With how undesirable mkb now is pre-evasion people prefer to build AS into bloodthorn or MKB if the need arises.
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Gyro farms really fast with just his skillset.
QO's build with phase aquila aghs satanic followed by daedalus/bkb/butterfly depending on the game is super legit.
You can even solo rosh at aghs satanic ~24 minutes
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Does the mini gun lifesteal for you?
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Yes that's a big reason for the build. Even if stunned during satanic it will still heal you through.
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4200 gold for that function lol. Could be neat as a late game item choice, but its shit when gotten so early.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
i know of high skilled players who have been doing sidegunner before the pros. u seem to think that it's pros that are the pioneers in builds, but they see it in their high skill pubs first
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What games had the gyro aghs build ive missed most of the games, anyone give me a few matchups?
Has it won any games, from what i filtered through dotabuff, its been alot of the t2 teams using it and losing.
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On March 13 2017 18:37 DucK- wrote:
4200 gold for that function lol. Could be neat as a late game item choice, but its shit when gotten so early.
I think just like the dragon lance, it's a nice mix between survivability and damage. I thought the aghs was really situationnal too until i saw that, but it might be relevant only for people with a great farming speed and not for the <6k
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im pretty sure the other reason given for aghs first by people like aui is that it's a pretty significant increase in building hitting.
I mean I think gyros a bad hero, but there seems to be a prevailing opinion that if you're going to play him aghs is the build.
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well if you think about it it's echo sabre with random targeting on steroids. Considering how well gyro clears aoe, the random targeting shouldnt be a big deal.
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Building hitting...agha first...when you have no real right click damage. Heh...
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Well gyro classically goes for a minor stats item into BKB or MKB and then builds the other one. Picking up agha as a major health item to delay BKB and then get some damage/stats that scale with agha sounds not too bad.
Satanic has such a bad buildup nowadays though :/
Has anyone tried diffu with it?
On a side note: It's still roughly 100 damage every 1.1 seconds even with just phase boots. If you are good enough with the Aoe to make it target what you want it's still not bad.
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Until gyro gets 1, preferably 2 (usually bfly and mkb), most if not majority of his damage will come from barrages and getting a good call down. There are very few cases where having an extra 175 is worth more than having magic immunity. Actually I can't think of any.
Side gunner is random too, so it doesn't necessarily attack the target you want. If you want to hit building get either a direct damage item or item(s) that help you hit the building safely, like bkb or pike.
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Essentially Agha is like DD. You hit twice every time. Problem is that it is single target, doesn't work on flak, and carry gyro is all about maximising flak. Furthermore rocket barrage is so good single target damage already. Then you try to be cute because it helps proc lightning, but you make your flak so weak that its a rubbish thing to do.
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i havent tried it but mjol seems fine to me it makes ur flaks come out faster
i dnt think anything other than rapier does more flak dps tbh
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On March 15 2017 12:50 DucK- wrote:
Essentially Agha is like DD. You hit twice every time. Problem is that it is single target, doesn't work on flak, and carry gyro is all about maximising flak. Furthermore rocket barrage is so good single target damage already. Then you try to be cute because it helps proc lightning, but you make your flak so weak that its a rubbish thing to do.
I somewhat agree. But I don't think builds like agha satanic are about maximizing flak early. I think they are trying to build him more about barrage and make him an early brawler that can tank through the time he's weak (bkb).
It's important to note that Agha Satanic both are probably part of a perfect 6-slot-scenario.
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If you want to maximize barrage then it's about making sure he's not blown up and CC'd. Bkb is the item for that. Rushing agh satanic so he can barrage is like making a gyro do a pudge or centaur's job by tanking in the frontlines that opponents can't ignore. If game somehow demands you do that, go bkb/skadi instead. There's a reason why almost in no cases do heroes go for satanic without 2 major damage items first.
Don't think you'll have room for agh for a 6-slot build. Boots/mkb/bkb + whatever you need from bfly/skadi/satanic/bloodthorn/daedalus/pike/abyssal/linkens.
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I mean a carry gyro that centers on maximizing flak is nonviable. you just pick other heroes. Yeah 4 years ago flak is what made gyro a carry. It got nerfed a lot. Last time gyro was popular it wasn't for flak at all. It was all about his spells and people went sny and stats items. He's been dead for over a year even still since call down got nerfed. This recent experimentation is more in that vein. Stop talking about mkb first major item after bkb nonsense that hasn't been a thing since TI3. Aghs has some clear advantages/disadvantages to sny first item (also bkb in some cases). Primarily that it gets better as game goes late and doesn't drop off so hard as sny. As for bkb that's obviously best if you have to fight now but it adds nothing to your farm ability which is a big drawback as first item. And acting like there's never a place for a safe lane carry that is tanky and front lines and hit towers for a glass cannon mid is just silly. Dragon lance aghs satanic gyro does that shockingly well in fact. But srsly compare those things and don't talk about 5 yr old builds please.
He's still bad anyways.
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Here's a pro game that shows both the strengths and weaknesses of Mael-Aghs on Gyrocopter.
The good:
*Fast farming; Gyrocopter was constantly outfarming the enemy cores even with fewer kills and assists.
*Early damage; the Maelstrom damage let them win a fight shortly after it was acquired.
*Gyrocopter was almost able to kill Enigma while black-holed.
The bad:
* With no movement speed beyond boots and no Hurricane Pike, Gyrocopter had a hard time applying his damage before BKB.
* Even with butterfly from a farm advantage, Gyrocopter could not kill enemy heroes through their own BKBs.
* Since supports had +HP talents and Gyrocopter didn't have much raw +damage, he couldn't kill them with flak alone.
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After trying aghs mael out I've got to say that the farming speed is AM-level ridiculous. I'm not sure I agree to the butterfly follow-up though, I assume that Mjolnir butterfly has a lot less dps than Mjolnir MkB.
I guess considering satanic's 50 damage it could be a lot closer. Butterfly ofc also gives some physical resistance, which gyro really profits from considering that he built +875/1075(with bkb) health.
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EPT
