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United States47024 Posts
On October 03 2014 16:13 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2014 14:54 DropBear wrote:
Ultra noob question. Been struggling with this guy for my all hero challenge.
Is it worth considering a linken sphere over black king bar? Particularly with the BKB nerf in the new patch where you can't get above 5 seconds spell immunity once you use it too much.
As far as I can tell the numbers give you the same additional damage due to the +15 agility, plus armor plus hp and mana regen plus attack speed so from a damage and stats perspective its an upgrade. Or is that complete spell immunity too important?
Linkens is not a substitute to bkb. They serve different purposes. Gyro in general needs spell immunity to do his thing. Linkens on heroes like morph/weaver/puck make what is already hard to effectively disable even harder. On gyro it serves no purpose except if there is a very crucial spell that kills you, like roar/doom. Even in that case, you probably won't be getting an early linkens.
The other thing to consider is that heroes like Morph and Weaver are already generally far stronger at 2nd/3rd item because of how their damage tends to be autoattack/item dependent. Linken->damage item tends to be a smoother progression for them because the magic immunity of a really early BKB is less impactful for them (thoug is still influential enough in certain games). Gyro's early spell-based damage in fights with Barrage and Ult is really high, so a 10s BKB fight even without DPS items is very strong. You can't do the same with a Linken's because even if it blocks a stun, it doesn't let you run into close range to use your spells without eating a ton of incidental magic damage.
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I just don't understand why most of pros doesn't give 1 skill point to homing missile before level 21. I really don't believe increasing your base stats better then level 1 missile. It has a nice range (1000 if im not mistaken) and gyro doesn't have mana problems at all. Also gyro needs to get close before attacking so you don't lose right click damage.
If it hits you get 2 second stun. If it doesn't hit you lose +2 stats. I believe first option is way superior.
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For a carry gyro he would have mana problems early if you are using homing missile all the time though, but gyro is a pretty rare sight in competitive nowadays so not sure what pros do anymore. Homing Missile was buffed a tad the past few patches as well.
Been playing around with the Slasher Eul's build on a support/roaming Gyro though and it's pretty effective.
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The actual problem with Homing Missile in pro play seems to be that pro teams are coordinated enough to kill the missile too often.
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homing missile is really good now
gyro still has a lot of weaknesses as a 1 and playing him as 2 with max rocket seems more promising
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homing missle is more useful in laning phase (1v1 matchups or 2v1), and in really early engagements.
It has its uses later on in the game (occasionally the other team can neglect it and it can do a lot) and is the best linkens breaker in the game, but yeah it falls off ofc.
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Ehh I have been seeing homing missiles being maxed recently. Its good in solo lanes, or contested ones. But if thwrws a support doing all the zoning, then there's no need for missile. Arguably the skill is only useful in the early phase, so if you do not require it early on, then there's no point skilling it later.
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On October 29 2014 15:39 DucK- wrote:
Ehh I have been seeing homing missiles being maxed recently. Its good in solo lanes, or contested ones. But if thwrws a support doing all the zoning, then there's no need for missile. Arguably the skill is only useful in the early phase, so if you do not require it early on, then there's no point skilling it later.
It is a good zoning tool. Put it on one of their players, it is forced to back a little so the allies can kill the missile. Forcing movement is good for increasing chances of good chronos, ravages etc.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
PPD playing Eul's Gyro on stream now. He went phaseboots into euls. I think I like Slahser's tranqs double bracer into euls more, there were many moments when ppd couldn't go into rocket barrage range because he had like 800hp and would die if he tried.
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On November 04 2014 18:12 cecek wrote:
PPD playing Eul's Gyro on stream now. He went phaseboots into euls. I think I like Slahser's tranqs double bracer into euls more, there were many moments when ppd couldn't go into rocket barrage range because he had like 800hp and would die if he tried.
I like the idea of the build but I don't really understand why one would not go Urn rather than double-bracer. The entire idea is to get kills and be consistently active on the map rather than passively farming so Urn seems crazy good.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
So the idea is to homing missile, euls, run next to them and rocket barrage while the homing missile connects?
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On November 04 2014 20:05 ahswtini wrote:
So the idea is to homing missile, euls, run next to them and rocket barrage while the homing missile connects?
Thats the idea yea.
Also I think its pretty important to highlight that this isnt a carry build. This is a more of a ganking build more suited for 2-4 position gyros. Thats a pretty big deal actually which not everyone seem to have caught on to. I dont think anyone would want a safelane farming Eul gyro more than a Dagon gyro. If you wanna play Eul gyro (totally fine), dont take safelane farm.
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On November 04 2014 20:05 ahswtini wrote:
So the idea is to homing missile, euls, run next to them and rocket barrage while the homing missile connects?
You can also use your call down a split second after you Eul's your target. Full combo is basically a free kill on most heroes early on.
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I actually like support gyro again, missile does an absurd amount of damage, if it's a 2v1 lane there's no way they're gonna kill the missile without eating a full rocket barrage to the face
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The return of support gyro!
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I dont even know how I got here, but I was here 76th!
Also buy drums because gyros f**king loves drumming.
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Why do most gyrocopters build MKB as their 1st big damage item after BKB/HotD? Wouldn't Daedalus be more effective for the single target damage? Daedalus only gives you 7 less raw damage but it gives you way more DPS when attacking a single target (which is also super useful with lifesteal)
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On December 15 2014 06:17 tehh4ck3r wrote:
Why do most gyrocopters build MKB as their 1st big damage item after BKB/HotD? Wouldn't Daedalus be more effective for the single target damage? Daedalus only gives you 7 less raw damage but it gives you way more DPS when attacking a single target (which is also super useful with lifesteal)
Ministun procs
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Carry gyro is all about flak cannon. Neither crit nor mini-bash transfers over to flak cannon, and while Daedalus isn't significantly worse than MKB, MKB gives more raw damage, is slightly cheaper, and also gives a slight AS boost. Also IIRC true strike does transfer over to flak cannon, but flak cannon hits aren't supposed to be able to be evaded (via DotA1). So I'm not sure if this is still the case and if so if it was even ever confirmed a bug or not in DotA2.
Also generally speaking even if you are itemizing for DPS, Daedalus is not typically built as your first DPS item. The inflection point of where Daedalus starts to outdamage MKB is ~160 damage (before purchase), which typically means Daedalus is better served as your 2nd DPS item. For Gyro in particular, once you get to the point where you are considering your 2nd DPS item, you're probably going to favor Rapier.
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On December 15 2014 06:43 Skyro wrote:
Carry gyro is all about flak cannon. Neither crit nor mini-bash transfers over to flak cannon, and while Daedalus isn't significantly worse than MKB, MKB gives more raw damage, is slightly cheaper, and also gives a slight AS boost. Also IIRC true strike does transfer over to flak cannon, but flak cannon hits aren't supposed to be able to be evaded (via DotA1). So I'm not sure if this is still the case and if so if it was even ever confirmed a bug or not in DotA2.
Also generally speaking even if you are itemizing for DPS, Daedalus is not typically built as your first DPS item. The inflection point of where Daedalus starts to outdamage MKB is ~160 damage (before purchase), which typically means Daedalus is better served as your 2nd DPS item. For Gyro in particular, once you get to the point where you are considering your 2nd DPS item, you're probably going to favor Rapier.
At level 16 with 1 point in stats & all other abilities maxed, with phase aquila BKB and helm gyro has 171-181 damage per autoattack which is a fair bit above the ~160 dmg threshold you gave.
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EPT
