EPTPlus it would be really awful mechanic to begin with if it actually dealt 20% of the damage to other targets.
Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 1173
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Velzi
Finland659 Posts
Plus it would be really awful mechanic to begin with if it actually dealt 20% of the damage to other targets. | ||
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
If our mid (and noone else) doesnt have a bottle, would it be worth getting one as a mobile support? | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On February 02 2016 20:39 Mafe wrote: What is the reason for some heroes (e.g. most commonly invoker) skipping bottle in mid? If our mid (and noone else) doesnt have a bottle, would it be worth getting one as a mobile support? If you have some inherit skill which allows you to regen effectively you dont really need it. Also its important to question how much, if anything, it gives you beyond laning stage. Dont forget to ferry extra regen if needed though, dont mindlessly skip bottle and sit in lane with 30% unable to last hit. Normally in a 1v1 mid bottle vs no-bottle the bottle hero will be able to outharass his enemy. He both has more mana to harass with nukes as well as more regen to withstand enemy harass. So normally both heroes go bottle. But if you have some kind of very strong regen you might not need it, or because you for some other reason are fine without it. Invoker has quas regen and is pretty hard to trade harass with, so he often does fine without. Even if you have a hard lane its often better to ferry out an extra salve or two. Even two extra salves during laning will cost much less than a bottle (even if you count the returned sell-price) and more important it saves an inventory slot. Getting a bottle only for the first 5-10min and then not needing it would be a waste of money and inventory space. Other heroes such a Viper seldom goes bottle too. Hes such a strong laner so you generally win all harssment-trades. If they nuke you back, ferry another salve and be fine. Similarly to invoker, Viper would likely not need bottle for anything beyond the first few minutes, so it wouldnt end up being a waste. Other heroes who come to mind would be mid Necro (Sadist and Q regen, can do without bottle), Bloodseeker (Bloodrage lifesteal) and probably one or two more. As for getting bottle on supports. Its probably not terrible, but most supports will do better or at least as well with more common support-regen like mana/tranq boots, soul ring or aether lens. If you play a support hero who maybe prefers to go treads or something then bottle is probably fine, but for most supports I'd still say dont go bottle. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8928 Posts
the regen from bottle is only one reason why you get it. the rune whoring is the other, and its something those heroes cant do without usually forfeiting some xp/gold because they cant push the wave out. if youre gonna get a bottle just to bottle crow all day and not give a fuck about runes, then just get salves/mangoes/clarities with that money and youre probably gonna be a lot better off necro i would get bottle with as a mid all the time. sadist is nowhere near good enough for mana regen at early levels and a good rune gives necro an easy kill at lvl 6 too | ||
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Velzi
Finland659 Posts
Plus there are heroes who use their skills to (SF puck qop etc.) clear out the wave to get the rune without missing any lane creeps so they need the mana regen from bottle to keep pushing the lane before rune spawns. Then there are heroes who like to stack ancients (TA) so they might aswell stack @ x:53 and get the rune right after. And like stated above, some heroes dont really need the bottle to stay in lane or just dont have use for the bottled rune | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
Im not saying its a terrible item, there are lanes where you might want to get it to reach that point without suffering too much, but please dont be so thick headed to say you have to go bottle 100% of the times and follow some cookie cutter 4-1-1-1 build. I've seen way better players than all of us go 3-0-3-0, no ult at 6, just to max farm. It is the best farm build, if thats what youre concerned about. And unless you had a really hard lane bottle is very fast becoming a stupid item then. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 02 2016 23:53 Kreb wrote: Even after fights where you might be half health 30% mana or something a round through the jungle will put you back at full health and good mana. I do agree that Bottle isn't really an every-game kind of item on that hero, but getting all your mana back isn't a thing where you just pop into the jungle and do it. Death Pulse costs 185 and each creep killed even with rank 4 Sadist nets only 72 mana, so you only really get significant mana returns on 4-creep camps and small returns on 3-creep camps (I'm assuming you use 1 Death Pulse per camp since you kill camps dreadfully slowly if you don't). With a Bottle you can actually smooth out mana usage much more which is actually one of the advantages of Bottle even past the point where it becomes superfluous for laning. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On February 03 2016 00:10 TheYango wrote: I do agree that Bottle isn't really an every-game kind of item on that hero, but getting all your mana back isn't a thing where you just pop into the jungle and do it. Death Pulse costs 185 and each creep killed even with rank 4 Sadist nets only 72 mana, so you only really get significant mana returns on 4-creep camps and small returns on 3-creep camps (I'm assuming you use 1 Death Pulse per camp since you kill camps dreadfully slowly if you don't). With a Bottle you can actually smooth out mana usage much more which is actually one of the advantages of Bottle even past the point where it becomes superfluous for laning. Arcane Rune seems like it'd give bottle a small nudge in usefulness too considering how powerful -30% cooldown reduction can be for Necrophos in both survivability and getting an ult off with a reduced cooldown. 130 health healed every 3.5 seconds is no joke. | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
When I consider the rune utility aspect of bottle purchases, thats a question I usually ask myself.."will I be at an advantage holding onto most of the runes, should they spawn or will they be just as useful if I immediately activate them?" | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8928 Posts
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
ofc holding onto runes is an advantage, but on heroes that don't necessarily need the bottle (esp after the nerf), you have to consider where else you might see an advantage instead of spending the gold solely for holding onto the rune until you need it. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
3 salves = cost of sold bottle, but it's way more efficient if you mainly need hp over mana clarities are 190 mana over 50 seconds for 50g which is good if u can keep it up for some reason urn ofc is the other comparable option to bottle in general skipping bottle is a luxury move, you probably shouldn't do it against pressure unless u can't get runes ever nor crow | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
But there's one weakness, and one I think I'd have regardless of build. I don't know how to teleport to fights as lifestealer. For a lot of the game if lifestealer isn't initiating from an ancient he's super squishy and really easy to kite. If I'm there for a teamfight usually you try to bully the supports/front line around to get them low before the fight actually breaks out then pop out and start taking people down. But if you need to TP to a fight/defense you can't bring the ancient (or anything) with you and it's such a weaker way to engage in a fight. I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to be handling that sort of thing. It's really prohibitive to TP around with your team as lifestealer, but if I don't they'll feed 4v5 and the game is lost anyways :/. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On February 06 2016 00:44 Logo wrote: I've been playing a fair bit of lifestealer later. I've been doing the radiance build (tranqs + radiance) and it usually goes pretty well as I can get pretty far ahead with fast farm & ability to bully supports. But there's one weakness, and one I think I'd have regardless of build. I don't know how to teleport to fights as lifestealer. For a lot of the game if lifestealer isn't initiating from an ancient he's super squishy and really easy to kite. If I'm there for a teamfight usually you try to bully the supports/front line around to get them low before the fight actually breaks out then pop out and start taking people down. But if you need to TP to a fight/defense you can't bring the ancient (or anything) with you and it's such a weaker way to engage in a fight. I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to be handling that sort of thing. It's really prohibitive to TP around with your team as lifestealer, but if I don't they'll feed 4v5 and the game is lost anyways :/. smoke the ancient and run at the first target you think u can kill with your team that shows on the map seemingly not with his whole team ez | ||
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nRoot
Germany928 Posts
Is team balancing loosened for normal matches? | ||
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Velzi
Finland659 Posts
E: for the reference i get matched with ~3k players in unranked time to time and both my unranked and ranked mmr are around 5kish. | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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