EPT[Hero] Anti-Mage - Page 27
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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Nakama
Germany584 Posts
On April 29 2016 16:35 evilfatsh1t wrote: finished both at 14 min? seems like you could have gone vanguard divine rapier and still won the game if your lane was that easy. or maybe you skipped boots entirely I played his build 2 times now and got vanguard+bf+treads+oov at around 15 mins both games, soo i guess its not that hard. once u finish vang u can freefarm anyway the only problem i felt was the lack of lifeleech and less manareg thx to no vlads but with proper tread switching its fine... | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8633 Posts
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TechSc2
Netherlands554 Posts
On April 29 2016 19:47 evilfatsh1t wrote: unless something has drastically changed since the last 2~3 patches, i remember bf+treads at 14-15mins being a good timing. if you happen to have another 2k gold in the same timeframe i can only imagine you were given a piss easy lane where you are allowed to practice last hitting for 15mins with no one bothering you, or you get some kills/towers somewhere. also im assuming the vanguard was gotten before the bfury, because if you rushed bfury theres really no point getting the vanguard unless you plan on rushing abyssal, since manta is still the best item choice after bfury. 100% freefarm BF+threads+PMS should be finished at 12 minutes, and i've seen faster. I think in a normal game, 16 minute threads+Vangaurd+BF is a good timing, but you won't get that every game. I think anything pre minute 18-20 it's still good. The vangaurd makes it so that you can TP to fights and get some good teamfights in. So in a way the vangaurd abyssal made AM more of an early game fighter, like spectre was with the haunt CD last patch. Being able to constantly fight without slowinng down your farm because of vangaurd now building into abyssal is pretty good change for AM. Damage was never an issue for AM, you want abyssal to make sure you and your manta illusions can hit someone down to 0 mana to ult them, the damage loss from the abyssal isn't really that big. | ||
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ChunderBoy
3242 Posts
vanguard allows u to tp to enemy safelane and invade it getting w.e kills u can + tower thus making the game easier for u ive convinced aui to do it and hes thinks its good now | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8633 Posts
On April 29 2016 20:04 TechSc2 wrote: 100% freefarm BF+threads+PMS should be finished at 12 minutes, and i've seen faster. I think in a normal game, 16 minute threads+Vangaurd+BF is a good timing, but you won't get that every game. I think anything pre minute 18-20 it's still good. The vangaurd makes it so that you can TP to fights and get some good teamfights in. So in a way the vangaurd abyssal made AM more of an early game fighter, like spectre was with the haunt CD last patch. Being able to constantly fight without slowinng down your farm because of vangaurd now building into abyssal is pretty good change for AM. Damage was never an issue for AM, you want abyssal to make sure you and your manta illusions can hit someone down to 0 mana to ult them, the damage loss from the abyssal isn't really that big. i know what vanguard gives. im not disputing the legitimacy of the item build. i for one still believe the old vanguard manta build is still legit in certain games. i was questioning the difficulty of the lane if you are able to get that set of items at 14mins flat. as both of you have stated, yeah it requires complete freefarm to get bfury and treads at 11mins. | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
edit: i see an oov, confirmed | ||
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ahw
Canada1099 Posts
And I guess there's lots of little nice things like manta giving your illusions dmg block from vanguard etc etc | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
probs max mana burn too while ur at it, with the vanguard hp, u dont really need to take stats like u would in normal 1-1-1-1 am build | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
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DonDomingo
504 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On April 30 2016 16:49 clickrush wrote: cool thing about vg is that you can go abyssal after manta and be useful before you have HoT. You could not only still do that, it was generally the right thing to do. You just lost the split push pressure that the 70-100 damage gave, which hurts the item for AM quite a bit. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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juracule
292 Posts
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
With vangaurd being apart of the new abyssal makes it worth picking up, if it wasnt part of ab its not worth stunting item progression for it. But atm it doesnt stunt item progression and allows for a new variation of playing am. Its definitely a really strong build atm. Losing the damage from the old abyssal doesnt really matter for am, plus i've found with vanguard's hp and block being apart of the AB means u can skip heart and go butterfly. It was almost always worth it to go vlads before for the hp sustain (and mana to some extent) but seeing how vanguard can fulfill the same purpose and is part of a really big core item makes it definitely the go to build. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
In short: The BF buildup can slow down your farm and your team as a whole during the buildup. After the buildup it speeds up your farm but you still need a couple of minutes to get mileage out of it which definitely slows down your team. 1. You can extend your lane more with less information if you have an early VG. 2. You can sustain better and need less help with VG. 3. You can go for earlier objectives (roshan, towers, ganks), which strengthens your team as a whole. 4. You can also manfight a pressuring opponent earlier and better, which slows them down and speeds you up. I didn't test this enough to factor in experience. But it seems like being a really viable option. Similar to spectre, who moved away from rushing radiance. Both heroes have some similarities in that regard, they do farm really well with their respective farming items (BF/Radiance) but they also scale better with entirely different items when it comes down to fighting. I wonder if this will stick and AM shifts more towards a fighting hero. Also his manaburn has a big impact when maxed out earlier instead of going for high stats (also similar to spectre with desolate). It basicly should come down to this balance: When your team can 4on5 then BF rush is really strong, but being a threat earlier would give your team even more tempo early on. And as a last thought I think BF is often an item on AM which is not slot efficient at some point. | ||
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