EPTUnless you're actually laning against skywrath, I would think that the burning 1-1-1 stats build would be more efficient at surviving in general. If skywrath is really bullying you in lane, one or two extra levels in spell shield might be worth it, but at that point, what are you still doing in that lane? If the enemy team has multiple high power nukers, then you might consider a 1-1-4.
[Hero] Anti-Mage - Page 15
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Xxazn4lyfe51xX
United States976 Posts
Unless you're actually laning against skywrath, I would think that the burning 1-1-1 stats build would be more efficient at surviving in general. If skywrath is really bullying you in lane, one or two extra levels in spell shield might be worth it, but at that point, what are you still doing in that lane? If the enemy team has multiple high power nukers, then you might consider a 1-1-4. | ||
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zelphin
47 Posts
not to mention level 3 x is out of night vision range. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On August 30 2014 04:03 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote: I'd say it'd be better to learn to watch your positioning and not get X'd alone than rush a BKB just for Kunkka. What are you going to do, blow a BKB charge every time you get X'd? Just try not to get X'd. Unless you're actually laning against skywrath, I would think that the burning 1-1-1 stats build would be more efficient at surviving in general. If skywrath is really bullying you in lane, one or two extra levels in spell shield might be worth it, but at that point, what are you still doing in that lane? If the enemy team has multiple high power nukers, then you might consider a 1-1-4. You can probably manta out of the X if you time it right. I know with disruptor if you pop manta right as Glimpse is about to bring you back you can break it. I'm at work so I can't try it out, but I'm fairly sure its possible. If it's like the Glimpse timing it's not too hard to break it. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On August 30 2014 03:17 zelphin wrote: requesting help for building against kunkka. should i skip manta after bfury and rush a bkb? or just get good and learn to dodge torrents with manta? also against stuff like skywrath, should i max shield asap/by level 11? like 141 into 144 or 114 into 144? i would think shield scales better against skywrath since his silence -resistance? or just for example in general if enemy have lots of nukes, does that call for max shield by 11? In my experience it's very open to the flow of the game. Against a skywrath I probably wouldn't get much more than 2 points in stats if I was under a bunch of pressure I'd max spell shield before mana break, but I'd still probably get 2 points of Q. The thing is, the Q is what lets you jump on people w/ manta and kill them really fast by ulting. If you have 1 point in Q then you can't drain the mana as fast. However if there is no one that really applies to, and there is a skywrath hunting you all game, then yeah, spell shield/stats might be more valuable than >2 points in Q. I find my skilling can vary a lot on game depending on what's going to be killing me, or if I'm under pressure. Generally no pressure = Q first, high pressure from magic damage = E first, high pressure from physical ultimate orb before yasha and upgrade stats until your manta is done. This would be against someone like a clinkz who can sneak up on you and orchid you, then dish out DPS. You just need to survive through the orchid so you can blink TP. In any game though, blink should be first your skill maxed, but you can vary 1-2 levels in your Q/stats before maxing blink if the situation calls for it. I hope that helps a bit. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On August 30 2014 04:38 Sn0_Man wrote: Well the x-timing with manta is funny because he can x you back at any time. If X is high enough level to let him do it before you blink away, then you are kinda trying to guess his timing on torrent etc. If X is level 2 you should be able to blink pre-x (not always but whatever have some map awareness). No you misunderstood me. You get X'd it starts counting down X 1 2 3 4 As 4 is hitting, you hit the manta and it should break the X from pulling you back. It 100% works on disruptor glimpse, and most likely works on X. I just can't test it right now. To expand without making another post. Generally if you are getting ganked by someone with silence/glimpse you should hold your manta and just try to blink and run away. If they manage to silence/glimpse you then you pop manta to break silence, or interrupt the glimpse then blink away to safety. If it's anything else like a doom. As soon as you see them on the mini map, you instapop your manta to give you time to use your blink away. IE: If you see a blink doom coming up on your on the minimap and he's just in range to blink/doom you. you pop the manta (instant) then go to blink, so he can't blink --> click you during animation of your blink. Same goes for people like lion/shadow shaman who try to blink hex. You want to not allow them to easy hex you and force them to impale which has an animation. It's why you pop the manta. Or in the case of Rhasta, you let him hex an illusion and you get away safely. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
Still though I think the much better advice is just to be constantly watching the minimap. There are going to be times when you haven't got your Manta yet or it is on CD from farming the jungle or whatever, plus Manta dodging is not a riskless proposition to begin with. I also think that AM's who are in the full on split-pushing phase of the game to not be stingy and buy wards so you have vision of gank paths. The cost of the wards quickly pays for itself if it prevents even one death or allows even a few extra seconds of farming. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On August 30 2014 04:43 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: No you misunderstood me. You get X'd it starts counting down X 1 2 3 4 As 4 is hitting, you hit the manta and it should break the X from pulling you back. It 100% works on disruptor glimpse, and most likely works on X. I just can't test it right now. No, you misunderstood me. The timing on X varies depending on the level plus kunkka can change the timing manually by recalling. So while glimpse is predictable and counterable, X is much harder to counter because you have to time it simultaneous to your opponent's instant-cast ability and/or the expiration of X which you don't even know the timing on since you can't see how many levels they have in it. Yes its possible but it bears little resemblance to the glimpse interaction because you have to guess the timing instead of knowing for sure. Another option is to accept the X pullback, attempt to manta the torrent (timed based on the cast animation of torrent which is constant), then blink away. However this may not work as the simple act of getting X'd back may be too much for you to survive. | ||
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zelphin
47 Posts
fuck bkb charges anyway, doesnt feel that important for me imo. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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zelphin
47 Posts
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On August 30 2014 05:14 Sn0_Man wrote: No, you misunderstood me. The timing on X varies depending on the level plus kunkka can change the timing manually by recalling. So while glimpse is predictable and counterable, X is much harder to counter because you have to time it simultaneous to your opponent's instant-cast ability and/or the expiration of X which you don't even know the timing on since you can't see how many levels they have in it. Yes its possible but it bears little resemblance to the glimpse interaction because you have to guess the timing instead of knowing for sure. Another option is to accept the X pullback, attempt to manta the torrent (timed based on the cast animation of torrent which is constant), then blink away. However this may not work as the simple act of getting X'd back may be too much for you to survive. The X Return or whatever the hell it's called is not instant cast, it uses Kukka's normal cast time I believe. Kunkka could probably do a cast-stop fake cast to trick you into using Manta first though. THE MINDGAMES. On August 30 2014 05:49 zelphin wrote: so still fury manta bkb? Well Fury -> Manta yes. Most get Heart after. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Heart is bkb only preferable whenever you can afford to not bkb. It also makes ur illusions surprisingly good at slow-sieging bases. Insert those survivability items wherever necessary in the dmg progression of Treads/Bfury/Manta/Bfly/Abyssal. Usually. Sometimes abyssal has to be before bfly. Yes u can buy vlads and solo rosh somewhere in there too if u want. | ||
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ymir233
United States8275 Posts
On August 30 2014 05:34 zelphin wrote: ya.. so to the original question, is it worth getting bkb after fury or fury yasha simply for the ability to farm more aggressively? fuck bkb charges anyway, doesnt feel that important for me imo. If they have something that makes an anti-mage with mana regen afraid to farm places on the map you're probably fucked even with BKB and shouldn't have picked it in the first place BKB is teamfight teamfight teamfight, if you're not using it to teamfight it's wasted. | ||
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zelphin
47 Posts
On August 30 2014 06:31 ymir233 wrote: If they have something that makes an anti-mage with mana regen afraid to farm places on the map you're probably fucked even with BKB and shouldn't have picked it in the first place BKB is teamfight teamfight teamfight, if you're not using it to teamfight it's wasted. uh.. ok?? so im asking for stategies to deal with a counter pick and you tell me yada yada yada i shouldnt have picked it in the first place? do you give these kind of responses to people asking for ta vs viper/razor matchups too? lol. i mean this is actually unbelievable to hear, in a dota game 9/10 of the heroes face the risk of being counter picked in some form. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
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ymir233
United States8275 Posts
On August 30 2014 06:50 zelphin wrote: uh.. ok?? so im asking for stategies to deal with a counter pick and you tell me yada yada yada i shouldnt have picked it in the first place? do you give these kind of responses to people asking for ta vs viper/razor matchups too? lol. i mean this is actually unbelievable to hear, in a dota game 9/10 of the heroes face the risk of being counter picked in some form. It's not unbelievable to hear. I mean, if you want a "strategy" vs counter-picks or w/e it would be to play conservatively and get to 5-6 slot ASAP with the standard build, which I guess would probably be faster with yasha (manta/bfury/heart/bfly + 1, mebbe vlad's on the side) but there's not much you can do. It's like asking "what items on storm can I get if there's a void and a doom on the other team" - the answer is NO item will fucking help you. Just don't be retarded and run into them when they have chrono/doom off cd. Stop overreacting when your silly question will never ever have a simple "get X item" answer. | ||
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zelphin
47 Posts
whatever. | ||
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ymir233
United States8275 Posts
The point is if you're that afraid of these heroes just don't blink into their part of the map and expect to get off scot-free, and if you want to spend a BKB charge on that instead of in the next teamfight then feel free to do so | ||
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Xxazn4lyfe51xX
United States976 Posts
If you rush BKB right after bfury, you've spent 3750 gold on an item that won't help you farm at all. BKB is a fighting item, and unless your team is structured around it, an AM with a bfury and a BKB is still going to make almost no impact in a teamfight. So if all you use your BKB for is to run from a Kunkka, you're wasting a lot of time and gold. Instead, it would be much better to try and gain better map awareness so that you don't even encounter an experience where you're getting X'd and killed by kunkka+team. Farm your jungle, watch the map and farm the lane when the kunkka is elsewhere. If they're running into your jungle and you have no ward coverage, that's just another issue. | ||
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