It was more popular before his nerfs, but still can work. It's a pretty difficult job and you really need an obs ward, as your goal is to put enormous pressure on their safelane without dying. With a few exceptions, you can bully their carry out of lane if their supports leave and kill their tower, thus tying their supports to the lane and limiting their xp. Unless you except your supports or mid to rotate, you'll want to skip gale and prioritize wards over sting after lvl 1.

In essence, Veno creates lots of space in the first 15 mins for his other lanes, then has powerful sieging/teamfight contribution for the next 20~ mins after that before mostly falling off. It's a pretty unique role and rather fun to play.

ahw

Canada1099 Posts

July 11 2014 20:16 GMT

#122

lol and of course VG is running it right now vs Alliance...

TRAP[yoo]

Hungary6026 Posts

July 11 2014 21:02 GMT

#123

after you get lvl 2 wards its pretty easy to get enough vision to somewhat be safe from ganks and you should be able to control the lane to some extent. smokeganks are the biggest issue because veno is very fragile once they catch on to you.

im not quite sure about the skillbuild thou. it seems like people skip gale completely or leave it at lvl 1. lvl 1 gale is very underwhelming as it only gives you a slow while i feel like lvl 2 adds enough damage to warrant 2 skillpoints in gale.
my skillbuild usually is 2-1-4-0 at lvl 7

Mecha King Ghidorah

United States595 Posts

July 12 2014 06:40 GMT

#124

What items would you go as a DPSer as once and awhile I get snowball from kills and my carries often times are multiple levels behind me and have way less gold warrenting me to go DPS so our team doesn't get run over by theirs. What would the item choice be after aghs.

TRAP[yoo]

Hungary6026 Posts

July 12 2014 08:42 GMT

#125

since you get enough hp with aghs i think maelstrom is the right choice. other options would be manta if you have things to dispel or butterfly if you need the evasion

xAdra

Singapore1858 Posts

July 12 2014 09:36 GMT

#126

Thanks for answers on the offlane question guys!

ahw

Canada1099 Posts

July 12 2014 22:17 GMT

#127

On July 12 2014 15:40 Mecha King Ghidorah wrote:
What items would you go as a DPSer as once and awhile I get snowball from kills and my carries often times are multiple levels behind me and have way less gold warrenting me to go DPS so our team doesn't get run over by theirs. What would the item choice be after aghs.

veil veil veil

veil does more for your dps after aghs than any other item.

problem with building agi carry items on veno is he doesnt have a steroid and he needs item slots for mobility. stuff like force or blink.

Nevuk

United States16280 Posts

July 13 2014 00:28 GMT

#128

Um, it's totally situational. If you're against opponents who aren't building BKBs then a veil is a very good item, Shivas is quite good. Scythe of Vyse is never bad. As someone who loves heroes like Necrolyte I tend to play utility heroes the same, I stack survivability and team auras on them (My end game in the scenario referred to would be from this group - Travels, scythe, aghs, pipe, bkb, mek, necro3, AC).

If you're going to transition into a DPS role then you can basically buy whatever you feel like. Manta, MKB, Mjolnir, Butterfly are all good options. The issue Veno has as a carry is that his base MS is slow and his range isn't particularly high, and he can't reach morphling levels of damage output (morph is even slower with shorter range) so he's reliant on being able to hit enemy heroes. Lothars/Blink are ways to get around being kited by the enemy, the former letting you close range and do burst damage and the latter letting you set up easy gales (and if they're taken by surprise and have normal reaction speeds there's a good chance you can get off your gale before they bkb). Forcestaff gets an honorable mention, in some scenarios it's better than the other two (mainly vs Clockwerk)

DucK-

Singapore11447 Posts

July 13 2014 16:00 GMT

#129

I'm never a fan of buying too many items to amplify already high damage spells. Agha boost is good enough. I would rather buy useful items like eblade/hex/halberd/diffusual/atos/shiva etc. basically items with a useful active instead.

Nevuk

United States16280 Posts

March 14 2016 18:19 GMT

#130

I'm debating updating this guide but I need some opinions. Is the arcane + mek rush now outdated for POS 4 and 5? Is tranquil + Aquila the correct build? Those are my two main things. Less important considerations are the value of the new items, specifically aether lens, and how good aghs is currently.

Nightmarjoo

United States3360 Posts

March 14 2016 19:32 GMT

#131

I would say manaboots veil/aghs with situational blink/force somewhere is his core. I wouldn't make an aquila on a veno unless he was at least 3rd farm priority. I'm sure aether lens isn't bad, but I wouldn't prioritize it over any of the above.

xxpack09

United States2160 Posts

March 14 2016 23:02 GMT

#132

I personally go midas almost every game, even on support. (on support I'll go like brown boots / wand / midas, on core something more like stick if laning against spell spammers, bottle if mid / brown boots / aquila / midas) The reasoning is similar to midas on support AA--it's your levels, and particularly level 16, that makes you potent, not your early-game items. I guess if you're playing a coordinated 5-stack game or a professional game, it's probably better to go mek -> midas as core so your team can fight better early.

After midas I buy some obs/sentries if support and then farm up a utility item (usually force staff, but stuff like euls/veil/mek/glimmer can be good too, although if you go mek or glimmer arcane boots is mandatory). I don't go aghs second, even on core, because one of the big benefits of aghs, the cd reduction, only happens at level 16, and if you rush aghs after midas you get it before level 16 and it's a little lackluster. After your 1st utility item, you should go aghs if core and consider aghs vs other items (euls/veil/mek/glimmer/pipe/blink/ghost/greaves/lotus) if support. When 6-slotted you probably want something like travels / aghs / octarine / 3 utility/mobility/survivability items, depends on game.

Aether lens is garbage imo, ward placement range and gale range is not that big of a deal and if you want more spell damage go veil or aghs.

ahw

Canada1099 Posts

March 15 2016 00:24 GMT

#133

On July 13 2014 07:17 ahw wrote:

Show nested quote +

veil veil veil

veil does more for your dps after aghs than any other item.

Gunna quote myself for relevance 2 years later. Plus veil has been hyperbuffed

fourthirds

Canada132 Posts

March 15 2016 20:57 GMT

#134

I don't like mek on him. It comes out too late if you are position 4/5. Your job is more to spread aids from the edge of the fight, not soak a bunch of damage.

Tranqs/soulring/veil/mobility item feels very good on this hero if supporting. Sometimes euls if you need an extra interrupt. Easy build up all the way along and it keeps you on the map. I'm not a huge fan of arcanes - I think you get enough of a boost in mana pool from veil. If you are intelligent with ward placement you only need 40-60 mana to clear camps during downtime.

DucK-

Singapore11447 Posts

March 15 2016 23:48 GMT

#135

Veil is so good. Remember solo killing a slark who died at fountain :D

[Edit]

My previous above shows ignorance. Forgive me.

xxpack09

United States2160 Posts

March 16 2016 00:09 GMT

#136

On March 16 2016 08:48 DucK- wrote:
Veil is so good. Remember solo killing a slark who died at fountain :D

[Edit]

My previous above shows ignorance. Forgive me.

To be fair, the item has been buffed several times since your last post :D

Nevuk

United States16280 Posts

March 16 2016 00:20 GMT

#137

On March 16 2016 09:09 xxpack09 wrote:

Show nested quote +

To be fair, the item has been buffed several times since your last post :D

Slark can just dark pact off veno's abilities

SatsuinoHado

Bulgaria777 Posts

March 16 2016 10:54 GMT

#138

On March 16 2016 09:20 Nevuk wrote:

Show nested quote +

Slark can just dark pact off veno's abilities

Slark cant dp the important ones

Kreb

4834 Posts

March 16 2016 11:32 GMT

#139

Veno is one of those heroes it feels just hard/impossible to judge if youre actually useful or not. On one hand you deal stupid amount of damage if you hit a good ult. But on the other hand you dont win games by having someone die after a fight so you end up losing a fight 3-4 instead of 2-4. And you dont win games by making the whole enemy team end on 20% after a fight forcing them back to fountain. You win games by actually winning fights.

And then theres all the annoyance of having some ~5 wards placed in every fight. On one hand you apply a slow to every one, you cancel blink daggers and the damage does add up up to something at least. And thats all good stuff. But is a fight/game winning stuff? Because on the other hand you dont contribute to killing someone your team focuses well at all.

I wont deny its pretty fun to watch people die 10sec after a fight is over, but its really questionable how much good it does.

goldspoon

Canada112 Posts

March 16 2016 12:48 GMT

#140

My problem with this hero is whatever he does someone else can do it better, visage pets have better vision/siege/crowdcontrol/disabling blink/damage output overall than venom wards, and it does not fall off nearly as hard.

A lot of big ults have similar aoe radius with massive INSTANTANEOUS nuke damage, and on top of that offers additional utility. A blog on dotabuff compared Earth Spirit to Venom and i am gonna use the example here as well,

1. ES can initiate into a good position to catch multiple people with his ult without the necessity to purchase forcestaff/blink/glimmer cape.
2. It offers tons of utility (aoe stun/silence that last for significant amount of time), utilities that are very impactful at all stages of the game.
3. Even when his ult is down ES offers sizable amount of disable/mobility.

I am not stating venom needs a buff, its just like kunkka, overshadowed by a hero (ember) that can do anything he does and do it better.