EPTgoing 440 and trying to see who i can unexpectedly solo kill is the only way i can enjoy this hero
[Hero] Venomancer - Page 9
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
going 440 and trying to see who i can unexpectedly solo kill is the only way i can enjoy this hero | ||
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Ufnal
Poland1435 Posts
I am a shittier support player and Veno is my favourite and most successful support hero. But nowadays pros seem to use him as a core. How does that work? | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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Ufnal
Poland1435 Posts
On August 05 2016 04:35 ahswtini wrote: u farm aghs and veil, press r and kill everyone Yeah, so I was kinda baffled to see today a 3 pos veno farming hurricane pike into lotus orb... | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On August 05 2016 05:39 Ufnal wrote: Yeah, so I was kinda baffled to see today a 3 pos veno farming hurricane pike into lotus orb... If he was jungling it's because piercing damage does an extra 50% damage to creeps as of a recent patch, it's why BM goes straight to the jungle and Veno can be even faster than BM, so it's a way to get utility items very fast. I haven't seen the specific game in question, however. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On August 05 2016 05:39 Ufnal wrote: Yeah, so I was kinda baffled to see today a 3 pos veno farming hurricane pike into lotus orb... If you're referring to notail, he got those items for the team. Not sure about Hurricane, probably for stats + Force Staff. But Lotus was to protect team against Wings. Veno in general doesn't really need items. Veil Agha though is awesome | ||
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kapibara-san
Japan415 Posts
On August 05 2016 03:38 Ufnal wrote: Dear LiquidDota, I am a shittier support player and Veno is my favourite and most successful support hero. But nowadays pros seem to use him as a core. How does that work? i believe veno's still one of the faster afk junglers in the game right now + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + im not gonna pretend to know what u do after that opening tho | ||
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xxpack09
United States2160 Posts
On August 05 2016 05:42 Nevuk wrote: If he was jungling it's because piercing damage does an extra 50% damage to creeps as of a recent patch, it's why BM goes straight to the jungle and Veno can be even faster than BM, so it's a way to get utility items very fast. I haven't seen the specific game in question, however. It was N0tail safelane veno. The strategy was Miracle on Huskar and 4 support heroes for Miracle. N0tail was just a support with extra farm that game. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
pro builds are often very different and situational because the team has a very clear plan to play around and execute. hurricane pike i don't know. maybe he valued the slow on autos, he was not going to build something like a euls which some people do against ursa/spiritbreaker in pubs. the lotus orb is like an extra linkens with stats. that was the game where they were kiting the sven right? cheaper items into a hex, and by the time all the extra disables are over, including the abyssal on huskar, the CD on halberd is gone and everyone can rotate the disables all over again if necessary,once tinker is dead. latelategame sven is where you ideally want a fresh bkb. | ||
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solid.salve3
80 Posts
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fourthirds
Canada132 Posts
* qb+2 clarities+2 obs+courier is definitely the best starting items. tell your other support to go boots first or oov/windlace. unless the enemy has all invis heroes then jungle veno can afford to buy all support items all game. Giving your second support license to go boots first or w/e helps make up for your early roam in the first 5-8 minutes. * veil first is not great. mek first is better. You can get either at about 8-9 min with boots/flying etc. veil is a good damage boost but it offers nothing until it's complete. mek has better buildup as buckler and headdress both give you push. also, when you start pressuring towers your allies are probably only just hitting level 6/7 so their nukes aren't great and they can't sustain spam because of low mana pools. yes if veno lands gale+nova+veil on someone then they are 100% dead, but early game respawn times are short so they can still get back in time to defend your push. sustain from mek is better early. Going veil first is like going all in on BH with enigma jungle - generally bad. * after you have level 4 wards you should farm ancients and leave normal camps to the rest of your team. if you have downtime when your team doesn't want to push it's pretty easy to bounce between farming ancients and defending mid/offlane without TPing. * all you really need to have a huge game impact is mek/arcanes/force, maybe veil. I farm hard until I have mek/arcanes, get force mostly off tower gold, then go lower in farm priority for anything else. I take dangerous farm with plague wards and leave most farm for cores. I always buy the majority of support items. * going veil/ags is OK but it's very all in on your ult. all it takes is someone building pipe and 1 decent aoe heal and your combo gets neutered. I'd rather have greaves/force than veil/ags 9 games out of 10. I like to build more tank/utility items like pipe/ac/sheep/lotus/linkens instead of damage. Veil/ags also commits you more towards suicide initiation. I prefer to stay back and spam wards, saving force for allies and saving Nova for counter initiation. I still really like veil for this build if our team has lots of magic burst though, just not the follow up ags. * as above, veno is never going to end the game alone. you can shit on the enemy for 30 minutes but eventually you need to rely on physical damage dealers and burst to break highground. this is why I build more tank/utility items to help my real cores instead of ags/veil. * practice the first few minutes in empty lobbies so you get the hang of farming without losing clarities or taking much damage. Radiant hard/medium combo near mid is easy for this - with 2 clarities to start and 1 more flown out you can basically stay at full mana/hp. Dire medium/medium/hard is tougher to avoid taking hits because you don't have the cliff to work with. The trick is cutting just enough trees to give you vision without making a choke you can't obstruct with wards. Also, start 3 clarities on dire. With practice you can easily have 8 min mek (or equivalent items) and high hp/mana at this time. Veno definitely can farm at low HP because wards do all the work, but this obviously makes you vulnerable to jungle invasion and makes you unable to TP against dives. If you stay at high hp/mana then after level 4 (2-2.5 min in) you can easily counter dives with TP-gale-wards. | ||
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ahw
Canada1099 Posts
i prefer being more active for a level or two because lv 1 gale + suicide is really strong, and then getting a few levels and jungling out a midas or mek or whatever. i like going midas/mek/greaves/veil/aghs, but i could see pretty much anything working. greaves is definitely absurdly strong on veno because he is naturally targetted down every fight. its pretty funny if you have good tempo and farm and levels, because you take a bunch of cc, pop greaves, ult everyone, gale them, and get 3 kills i like dual offlane, because you can fall back and easily ancients out a midas by 9-10 mins early though just getting boots, optional wind lace, rain drops, blight stone is everything you need to farm the game out. blight stone helps a lot for jungling and ancients and early towers | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
Mek or veil first definitely depends on lineup, whether the team can group up to push and the amount of magic damage your teammates have. Mek usually requires arcane first to solve mana issues while veil can be bought straight Midas is a great alternative if your gameplan is just to stall out the game with veno wards, then hit with a stronger mid-late game timing. | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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ahw
Canada1099 Posts
So with veno you want to go core and take whatever lane you can dominate — melee core matchups ideally. After you get your core items up — boots Aquila wand etc — you pivot hard to rush spirit vessel. Then you grab whatever utility you need — usually euls or pipe, force, etc. Then you go octarine. Seems kinda wild but the idea is you go gale cool down + gale spawns wards + ward hp/dmg. If you get rolling in team fights you can get like 20 wards up by spitting gales out every 7 seconds, spawning 4-6 if they are clumped each time. If you fight on top of an objective, even if you get wiped, you’ll almost always take the objective. Then on top of that all of the syngery octo gives you with your ult and wards. It’s a cool build. Different tempo compared to the GPM/utility veno that rushes hex | ||
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GOHF
United States1864 Posts
And that being said, I think I remember GrandGranT mentioning that Venomancer isn't really a Nisha hero. That was during some other tournament where it looked like he was struggling with it. | ||
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ahw
Canada1099 Posts
On November 13 2018 10:45 M.S.Bismarck wrote: That was Nisha's build wasn't it? During Secret's game 2 against Vici? I'm going to have to watch that game because it looked like despite Secret winning they cut it way too close. And that being said, I think I remember GrandGranT mentioning that Venomancer isn't really a Nisha hero. That was during some other tournament where it looked like he was struggling with it. Yeah I think he did it a few games, but it’s pretty popular in high tier pubs right now. I’m not sure if it’s because of him, or if it was trending I think I saw Nisha do 4-4-0 with it which I think is insane | ||
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GOHF
United States1864 Posts
On November 13 2018 12:04 ahw wrote: Yeah I think he did it a few games, but it’s pretty popular in high tier pubs right now. I’m not sure if it’s because of him, or if it was trending I think I saw Nisha do 4-4-0 with it which I think is insane During ESL Hamburg actually. https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4186389316 Secret one that since VP failed to really break high ground. Nisha's item build was drastically different back then and Secret put him back on Veno game 3 only to get crushed by a Huskar pick. As someone who learned Dota 2 through Venomancer and still has him as his most played hero, any time I see people skip Plague Wards I feel like I'm getting a rash on my butt. Though back to Malaysia, Universe went Force Staff>Halberd>Aghs>Blink>Heart against Gambit's physical damage lineup. Guess that shows some testament to the hero's flexibility in items, but I think I do like Heart over Octarine. Heart is pretty strong on these dps cores like Necrophos. I wouldn't be surprised to see that item nerfed a little bit. | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
For example I tanked a brood lane with veno, maxing gale in that lane was invalueable as my wards would've been completely ignored and galing the brood when it ran at me was what llowed me to lane. In another matchup wards might've helped push a low armor hero out of the lane. | ||
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ahw
Canada1099 Posts
the tempo is so fast that the damage from 2-3 gales really swings things especially if ur like me and u miss gales like its going out of style | ||
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