EPTLet´s cross fingers they have a similar showing today against "Just Error".
Nigma Discussion - Page 16
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Let´s cross fingers they have a similar showing today against "Just Error". | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Really ruined my Sunday evening...should have watched something else. | ||
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MintberryCrunchs
Germany462 Posts
On November 23 2020 05:58 Rufus Dupres wrote: Horrible series against VP. That draft in Game 2 was set to fail from the very beginning. Really ruined my Sunday evening...should have watched something else. I can really understand where you are coming from. I had some similar situation when i was still considering Nigma to be my favorite team. But their ups and downs are really heartbreaking for a fan and i decided that its not possible for me to root a team with such high ambitions that has such a shaky performance. And like i sort of wrote before, i dont see that this is going to change anytime. Steel feel they would be better of going separate ways. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
It is so more frustrating to know that this Team has everything what it takes to be a constant top team. I do not know what puppey is telling his teammates, but maybe Kuro should have a word with him and get some advices on how to motivate a team permanently, but i do not hope that it will be smashing some monitors.  | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
I'm also unsure about the split-up plan, 3/5 don't have significant performances outside of this team. They also mostly click together, so that seems like an unnecessary risk for everyone but Kuro and Miracle and considering that Sumail is struggling with his teams and that most top tier teams have a pos 1 supercarry Miracle isn't exactly safe to immediately find a spot in a good roster. And on a third note VP looked pretty dominant throughout the bracket and Nigma was in a spot where they could allow themselves to experiment and their drafts were pretty experimental. I wouldn't put much value on this loss. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
@Archeon: True, Kuro formed GH and MC to be word class-players, Miracle and W33 had been earning their first merits at other teams. But given on the current performances, I think that GH may be the one and only who will get picked up in the first phase. This man is absolutely phenomenal. Giving his positive attitude as well..Jackpot...at least teamwise. Although there is no free spot in a T1-Team right now, but this player gives you so much flexibility in your drafting as you have to ban at least one of his heroes that you seriously have to consider picking him up. The remaining Pos-4-player likes Yapzor, Cr1t, Saksa and Taiga are locked in...Handsken...okay...but this squad is not better than Nigma at their peak. Even at other areas...only fy and DJ are somewhat close to the level of GH. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
I'm not saying they wouldn't find teams, but they likely would be picked up by a EU tier 2 team at best. Maybe OG, maybe Alliance, maybe TL, but these aren't exactly upgrades to Nigma (unless you're sure that you'll survive in OG long enough to gun for TI, then OG might be worth a gamble if Ana wants even more money). These teams all currently have mediocre results and occasional breakout performances, which is pretty much where Nigma is at and I don't really see that changing. Maybe one of them would be picked up by an up and coming team like Vikin, would be interesting to see where this would go. But teams like these often fall apart if they change their equation. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
What was once a top team now has to fight for their life against Division 2 EU teams. | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
Because of that we get what we see at this tournament: Europe/CIS can be a hell of a close call of winning and losing! And after Nigma played this "mini-tiebreaker tournament" and only lost against the arguably best team of the last 8 months... there is too much "hate" here! As we know: Lowerbracket is for winners! | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
On December 07 2020 18:51 Geisterkarle wrote: As I said in the Epic tournament thread, most teams are not that "involved" lately. The energy of playing for a TI is missing. Because of that we get what we see at this tournament: Europe/CIS can be a hell of a close call of winning and losing! And after Nigma played this "mini-tiebreaker tournament" and only lost against the arguably best team of the last 8 months... there is too much "hate" here! As we know: Lowerbracket is for winners! They played even worse when there was energy for a TI, that's why these excuses are so ridiculous. It's also ridiculous that someone can be away from the team for 5 months and return bored. At the end of the day, the EU/CIS region being hard isn't an excuse when there's literally nothing can be done about it. When LAN events start happening again, Nigma will have to be at the top of the region in order to move forward as a team. No excuse in the world will buy them in a pity spot at any event. During the 2018-2019 season, they failed to qualify for the Major, they got 2nd place in a fucking Minor qualifier, and then quit the tournament before it even started. 2019-2020, they couldn't qualify for any Majors directly, and couldn't even qualify for the last Minor. Teams with the results Nigma had during the 2019-2020 season disband. I know they do well at TI but the reality doesn't change that any other team with these results outside of TI would not have the same roster for the next season. They had even better results during 2018-2019 and they still kicked Matu, so why isn't there any roster change now? Obviously because there isn't any actual issue with any individual players or skill level, they're simply lazy and complacent with their horrendous LAN results as a whole. The same excuses have been made for this team for years now. At least they eventually showed up in the previous seasons, this year they haven't. Before the pandemic, we couldn't even watch Nigma play because they didn't even qualify for the events they were supposed to. The months of silence we would've gotten from the team as we watched other teams play the tournaments that they couldn't qualify for on top of the months of silence where they took a break and barely communicated to their fans, it would've been a very non-existent year for them without a pandemic handing them auto invites to online tournaments based on their popularity. I simply don't want to hear the same excuses next season. This has been their "EU is hard so we can't qualify for events and we lack motivation" season. We can make all the excuses in the world for this team but once people have to actually qualify for events, none of these excuses will get them into a tournament. They actually have to play well consistently and be among the absolute best in the world. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
EU/CIS being hard puts their result into perspective. Nigma's results are comparable to the other big EU teams outside of Secret like TL, [A] and OG and on average better than the likes of Navi. And yes all these teams occasionally struggle in quals, but they would still be undoubtedly TI invites unless China secretly surpassed the European meta. Whom would you invite instead currently? And yes other players have argued that they feel burned out and bored by the constant online play, it's not limited to Nigma at all. It's probably one of the reasons why we see teams like Winstrike and the new VP on the rise, the old guard simply isn't as hungry anymore. Hell with the patch around the corner and online leagues coming it'd make a lot of sense to take a break now and then bootcamp 1-2 weeks before the patch hits. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
On December 09 2020 03:33 juuto wrote: If you think this team has a good chance at making it out of EU qualifiers, you have to be a next level optimist and that's the PMA way of saying it. I think this claim is hysterical and over the top. Yeah they could fall out of EU qualifier but if u look at it the only sure thing was Secret and this tournament they look as bad as Nigma. Don't know if you can put many teams ahead every single tournament to conclude the finished behind. For me this a just another emotional rampage of dissopointments more then analysis of Nigma or EU games in general. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
On December 09 2020 06:39 Sapaio wrote: I think this claim is hysterical and over the top. Yeah they could fall out of EU qualifier but if u look at it the only sure thing was Secret and this tournament they look as bad as Nigma. Don't know if you can put many teams ahead every single tournament to conclude the finished behind. For me this a just another emotional rampage of dissopointments more then analysis of Nigma or EU games in general. Sure, you might have a point, if we ignore the fact they actually couldn't make it out of EU qualifiers last season. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
Nobody doubts that they have consistency issues and occasionally terrible drafts. But nobody in their right minds doubts that on average they are a solid tier 2 contender and on a good day they can beat the best of the best. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
On December 11 2020 18:40 Archeon wrote: Except crashing in 1 out of the 4 last quals they played means indeed that they have "a good chance" at making it out of the qualifiers. And considering their other results most people considered the one time they failed to be the outlier and not the 3 times they made it. Nobody doubts that they have consistency issues and occasionally terrible drafts. But nobody in their right minds doubts that on average they are a solid tier 2 contender and on a good day they can beat the best of the best. They didn't crash out of one qualifier, they crashed out of all of them except for one. They crashed out of two Major qualifiers and a Minor qualifier. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
On December 13 2020 07:17 juuto wrote: They didn't crash out of one qualifier, they crashed out of all of them except for one. They crashed out of two Major qualifiers and a Minor qualifier. You seem to forget that they have won the Minor and qualified for the Major, I do not count same as crashing out...Archeon is right, they have failed to qualify for one Major/Minor circle and that´s it. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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