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Nigma Discussion
| Forum Index > Dota 2 Player & Team Discussion |
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Julmust
Sweden4867 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Finally, cant wait to see them in action again. Like the new logo...time to change my flair. | ||
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Nakama
Germany584 Posts
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korrekt
76 Posts
 Funny Banner Photo. | ||
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GGman
Czech Republic143 Posts
Petition to have two teams in a flare choice! Anyway - go Nigma! | ||
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sCuMBaG
United Kingdom1144 Posts
Removing Matu just lost them all of the brownie points they earned... Still like the team, but it sure af isn't the same | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
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the3rdiii
8 Posts
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OtherwiseOcelot
33 Posts
On November 27 2019 17:52 the3rdiii wrote: When Nigma's next tourney? Open qualifiers for the major which for Europe start on the 28th. | ||
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Julmust
Sweden4867 Posts
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sunrazgriz
Vatican City State1573 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
 And damn, I clicked on the Quarter Final match ... 11min??? I need to try to find a replay... | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
The quintuple rampage from Miracle as a PA was just amazing, GrandGrant totally went of. First real test will be today against OG Seed. Hope they can keep up their steam and proced to the closed qualifiers. | ||
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Julmust
Sweden4867 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
It looks like an owl looking from the corner! #cantunsee | ||
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Julmust
Sweden4867 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
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Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
On November 30 2019 00:02 Geisterkarle wrote: Hm, I was running around with the Liquid logo so long, I didn't realize that! It looks "normal" even when tilted! If normal is a butterfly then yes. Nigma looks sharp from the start, but guess that can be expected from a new org. that want to prove them self under the new banner. | ||
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kiroskirin
Thailand7 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On November 30 2019 04:03 kiroskirin wrote: Can't wait for Closed Qual. There will be some high level dota for sure. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
Now seriously - last year i realised something and now it just proves itself. The top teams that we know pretty much never tryhard unless it is TI - i mean most of them have already won it, and that makes you care for nothing else but TI.So they are constantly skipping majors, if they are actually playing they are testing stuff, trying to prove that some weird synergies work, trying to beat the opponents best hero instead of baning it or not in the right mindset to show us the best dota they can. As they know that all they need is 1 good major performance throughout the year and bam - they are in TI. Even if that doesn't happen there is always a qualifer. And usually there are no teams left that cna stop them there. So instead of wondering for 8 months why Nigma's every second game has questionable picks or plays i'm gonna stick with the guys that are very motivated and still have to prove themselves, that will show us the best dota they can all the time - and that i actually like too - Liquid. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
On December 04 2019 02:15 juuto wrote: Seeing them lose to Magnus twice is just boring. Just ban it and don't force us to watch this horseshit of them trying to counter a broken hero with no real counters. Magnus was not a problem at all last game though. Ember just wasn't impactful at any point, they couldn't kill matu reliably even when he was underfarmed neither they could end the game because ember didn't offer much sustain. On another note: good series, they all played really well. I feel like the meta hasn't been figured, everyone just picks fast heroes and it works but i'm not feeling it | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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Anamorph
236 Posts
i cant say its just drafting - yes it is a part, but against alliance their decision making is bad too. in terms of drafting they have real issues - but their shotcalling wasn t good too. | ||
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Anamorph
236 Posts
On December 04 2019 04:37 hunter_x wrote: ok so we are at the point of sucking again. did they actually do anything in the time they skipped the major? they need some serious training before the minor... you can feel they had too much rest. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5278 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
They better not drop out like a bunch of sore losers from the Minor because "they need a break". There is no reason a team should be this incredibly inconsistent. | ||
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GGman
Czech Republic143 Posts
On December 03 2019 16:09 NInoff wrote: If Liquid plays Liquid Liquid always wins. Now seriously - last year i realised something and now it just proves itself. The top teams that we know pretty much never tryhard unless it is TI - i mean most of them have already won it, and that makes you care for nothing else but TI.So they are constantly skipping majors, if they are actually playing they are testing stuff, trying to prove that some weird synergies work, trying to beat the opponents best hero instead of baning it or not in the right mindset to show us the best dota they can. As they know that all they need is 1 good major performance throughout the year and bam - they are in TI. Even if that doesn't happen there is always a qualifer. And usually there are no teams left that cna stop them there. So instead of wondering for 8 months why Nigma's every second game has questionable picks or plays i'm gonna stick with the guys that are very motivated and still have to prove themselves, that will show us the best dota they can all the time - and that i actually like too - Liquid. Thank you for saving me the trouble of expressing my opinion on the matter as this is just spot on :D To all the Nigma fans out there (not saying I'm not one of you) - prepare for a rollercoaster of a year! | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On December 04 2019 04:40 juuto wrote: Ever since TI7 ended, Kuro's squad has been nothing short of a complete trainwreck of a T1 team. It's unbelievable how they haven't fixed this issue yet where they're one of the most inconsistent teams in the world. They get stomped in every grand finals that they're in, they completely fuck up in every group stage, and now they can't even qualify with 3 fucking slots to the major. Tons of highs for the team along with an absurd amount of lows, it's actually insane. They better not drop out like a bunch of sore losers from the Minor because "they need a break". There is no reason a team should be this incredibly inconsistent. If you have to manage a team, you don't have the time to actually prepare for the game. Also if its just a business for Kuro as he said multiple times he should not be playing.But running the business. Havent seen nazgul carry a game in a long time... and there is a reason for that. I feel a little sorry for the boys its been a rough 24 hours - i mean being spanked by your former organisation, and 1v5-ed by the guy that you kicked 6 months ago is kind of a lot to take in... But like i said don't worry Nigma will be playing this TI. But i wont bother to care what they do until then, as i want to enjoy watching a highly motivated team showing us some good dota like Liquid or Alliance, not a team that obviously has some motivational issues( its pretty much like you said - the same every year since they won TI, OG has the same issue too, but the managed to win another TI ) - there is no other explanation for all the drafts, feeds and pure throws we've seen from the boys. They have the experience, the synergy, the skill the mechanics, and the knowledge of the game to do it. But they don't. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
On December 04 2019 04:55 NInoff wrote: If you have to manage a team, you don't have the time to actually prepare for the game. Also if its just a business for Kuro as he said multiple times he should not be playing.But running the business. Havent seen nazgul carry a game in a long time... and there is a reason for that. But like i said don't worry Nigma will be playing this TI. But i wont bother to care what they do until then, as i want to enjoy watching a highly motivated team showing us some good dota like Liquid or Alliance, not a team that obviously has some motivational issues( its pretty much like you said - the same every year since they won TI, OG has the same issue too, but the managed to win another TI ) - there is no other explanation for all the drafts, feeds and pure throws we've seen from the boys. They have the experience, the synergy, the skill the mechanics, and the knowledge of the game to do it. But they don't. They got a 2nd place at Major, bombed out 3rd party LAN a week later, and then had a roster change. They bombed out of the TI9 group stage and made the absolutely ludicrous lower bracket run to the grand finals at fucking TI. This does not happen under normal circumstances with teams who have their heads together, only a complete mess of a team can fail and succeed the way Kuro's teams do. At least OG worked with a psychologist at TI9, Kuro failed to do the same and guess what? Liquid proved to be a very good team with very skilled players who are just a colossal mess of a team. OG proved to be a very good team with very skilled players who have their shit together. This rollercoaster ride that this team has been on is not normal at all. Even the TI8 season, they couldn't win a major to save their lives despite there being a million of them that season, but the moment you put a "super" in front of the "major", that's the one they'll win. C'mon, they have to do something about this because it just shouldn't be happening. | ||
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Qualitaetsgarant
124 Posts
On December 04 2019 04:55 NInoff wrote: I feel a little sorry for the boys its been a rough 24 hours - i mean being spanked by your former organisation, and 1v5-ed by the guy that you kicked 6 months ago is kind of a lot to take in... I don't feel sorry at all. It was THEIR decision to kick Matumbaman and THEIR decision to leave Liquid. Maybe they should think about this decisionmaking. Btw: So many people said that Matu was the problem and kicking him is the easy solution. I hope that Matu keeps proving they are wrong. | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
So I think this "kicking Matu was wrong" is bullshit! This team, now known as Nigma, often plays like they are just gods and brute force their way through their opponents. And yes, they are top players ... but that is not enough in this day and age of DotA! At least when you play against other top teams! The air is pretty thin up there! And they are their own organization for what ... a few months? They have a lot to do aside just playing. I think, when they "settle down" and fix things and get back to figuring out the patch - which they will do! - Nigma will be at TI, hands down! Let's look for tomorrow, if they can get to the Minor. Chances look good. And after that they have a month to prepare for that. There will be a completely new game! | ||
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
On December 04 2019 06:27 Qualitaetsgarant wrote: I don't feel sorry at all. It was THEIR decision to kick Matumbaman and THEIR decision to leave Liquid. Maybe they should think about this decisionmaking. Btw: So many people said that Matu was the problem and kicking him is the easy solution. I hope that Matu keeps proving they are wrong. i dont even remember too many people saying Matu was the problem, most agreed that it was done because some change was needed. i think kuro said it too, it was not about his performance. Sometimes roster changes dont work out, you can't know that before. that is the risk you take as a captain, so you cant really say kuro and the boys were wrong with their decision at the time. about them leaving Liquid, it is known that kuro always wanted his own team like Puppey. you can't blame him for that move, after being in Liquid so long. it's easy as outsiders to criticize teams, just remember that you dont know every reason behind those decicions. i still believe in them of course, they have been in similair situations before and always came back;) | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
On December 04 2019 17:08 FreakyDroid wrote: We've had plenty of examples of good teams slumping after some time and never getting back up.But we've also had many examples of teams bouncing back, so with that said, its too early to judge their performance. This is pretty much Kuro's for the past 2-3 years. They slump, get back up, and then slump again. | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
On December 04 2019 18:27 juuto wrote: This is pretty much Kuro's for the past 2-3 years. They slump, get back up, and then slump again. which top team doesnt though? i literally cant remember a single team in the last few years that was always strong and never had weak phases. Kuro and the boys still won a ton of tournaments including TI... | ||
FO-nTTaX
Johto4920 Posts
On December 04 2019 04:55 NInoff wrote: Havent seen nazgul carry a game in a long time... and there is a reason for that. You should see him at the Team Liquid Utrecht Office Christmas Lan Party  It is a bit sad to see them go out of the Major Qualifier like this, but there is still the Minor, and there are more Majors to come. | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On December 04 2019 20:43 FO-nTTaX wrote: You should see him at the Team Liquid Utrecht Office Christmas Lan Party It is a bit said to see them go out of the Major Qualifier like this, but there is still the Minor, and there are more Majors to come. I'd love that. Next party is pretty close - you can upload some pictures :D | ||
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sCuMBaG
United Kingdom1144 Posts
We all know the team who's on fire thanks to going through qualifiers often wins. 200IQ plays! | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
There is absolutely no way there's anything even remotely normal about the way they work as a team. | ||
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its_a_me
Austria612 Posts
They were lucky to have a short high with w33 during TI, but now its the same story pre the matu kick. I would never count them out but they need to get their shit together and change their style. And no w33 is not playing bad, he just has hardly a chance to shine, like matu before. This is the micracle show and if its now working they get destroyed... (yeah im a little salty) Edit: I mean they used to love the aggressive, push and timing attack style, now they play like EG. | ||
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sCuMBaG
United Kingdom1144 Posts
I know this is not happening, but I can imagine that being a better squad | ||
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
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Anamorph
236 Posts
On December 06 2019 13:40 konadora wrote: w33 truly has been underwhelming and feels like he's pulling the entire team down can not agree, he takes a lot high risk plays but overall he plays a stable and strong mid. the tempo heroes he is on he plays to its perfection. For me the big difference to the past is the performance and impact of mind controll and also gh needs to come online again. I can not compare this team to the team i saw at ti7. gh was kind of a carry with kotl etc. and mindcontroll could fully shine. it s a new patch and kuro never was fast adapting. he is also a captain that is stuck to some easy predictable draft pattern. | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On December 06 2019 16:18 Anamorph wrote: can not agree, he takes a lot high risk plays but overall he plays a stable and strong mid. the tempo heroes he is on he plays to its perfection. For me the big difference to the past is the performance and impact of mind controll and also gh needs to come online again. I can not compare this team to the team i saw at ti7. gh was kind of a carry with kotl etc. and mindcontroll could fully shine. it s a new patch and kuro never was fast adapting. he is also a captain that is stuck to some easy predictable draft pattern. Everyone plays bad. They play like they are playing pubs. If we are talking the whole qualifier i've seen miracle roaming alone with no vision when enemy are ahead, with no BB. For example game 2 vs Liquid in the group stages. There were shaker games where MC had a perfect start with shaker and then we never seen him land a single echo. There was a game when GH missed every single roll whith earth spirit. There was games when w33 fed a lot with timbersaw, while he could've avoided death by just clicking Eul's Scepter. There were games when kuro drafted heroes in to ones that hard counter them. Multiple times. And finally they got outplayed and out fought in a straight fights for two games vs the well known and well established full with experienced people team of Vikin.gg ( Well played by them ). So like i said before - don't bother trying to understand, just remember - they will play this TI. And they wil tryhard there. Until then things that happened this qualifiers will happen often. No matter if they make it to the minor or not. However, no matter the reasons playing this bad cna have a negative effect on the team atmosphere... lets hope thats not the case. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
The decision making, when and where to fight which was always a strength of this squad, looks currently really bad. It always felt like they were not on the same page or as ODPixel said during casting: Are they even in the same teamspeak-lobby? The drafts looks iffy as well. They keep on picking Morph and Invo although they have been losing several games with this combo. If you are relying on Miracle to carry you, pls ban out the most obvious counter to his hero. I am still not a fan of putting W33 on Invo, he looks lost after the laning phase and falls off so hard. As I was shouting at this Team at TI during the group stage but have been taught a good lesson not to count them out until its over, I will try to be more positive this time. But hell yeah, it was hurting to watch them in some games. | ||
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wims80
1892 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
w33 just recovered with a triple kill after a devastating 0:6 on Ursa after eleven minutes. EDIT: And in Game 2, we finally get to see Miracle on the Invoker again. So...are we back now to Miracle mid? His Invoker was again a joy to watch. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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atmankulkarni
India109 Posts
On December 07 2019 02:42 Rufus Dupres wrote: Magnus is such a broken bullshit hero right now with Aghs and yet Nigma are still not banning it. This game would have been over if not of this hero. I think Kuro just wants to show that it is not as broken as it seems. | ||
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sCuMBaG
United Kingdom1144 Posts
On December 06 2019 02:19 sCuMBaG wrote: Kuro did it on purpose. We all know the team who's on fire thanks to going through qualifiers often wins. 200IQ plays! My hypothesis stands! Play as many games as possible. | ||
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Tio-
6 Posts
On December 07 2019 03:46 juuto wrote: Kuro stack doing what a Kuro stack does best. Bouncing back from a disaster... I hope this level of play sticks for a while. The skill level they played on the match against viking, particularly G2 is higher than average, I'd say. They're playing against a broken hero and they beat it. They mostly played on their usual skill level on the major qualifier, but there are some games where mistakes are made, or when you can obviously see the player is getting rusty (see gh earth spirit). And of course, sometimes kuro outdrafted himself. There are times when you simply can see that he is not contributing enough to the game as a pos5, too. If you root for Nigma, you should stop saying discouraging things everytime they slumped. Believe in the players. It's the same thing with matu leaving and them leaving liquid - I believe it's a team decision, and not kuro's alone. Any of them are skilled enough to leave (remember MC carrying ppd to top4 major) if they feel kuro isn't doing the best thing for them, so why don't they leave? IMO the 4 of them minus w33 have incredibly high skill ceiling. I personally don't believe in w33, but I respect the decision made by the rest of the team to believe in w33. Player, and team, isn't always on top form all the time, and they don't need to be for people to support them. If you really support them, do it especially when they're doing badly. That's what a supporter should do. | ||
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Khelopcgames
2 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On January 08 2020 18:01 Rufus Dupres wrote: So....which version of Nigma will we see tomorrow? W33 or Miracle mid? Hope they can make it to the Major somehow. If they decide to play they have a pretty good chance. If not - there are 2 more majors and qualifiers, they will be fine. | ||
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Julmust
Sweden4867 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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Julmust
Sweden4867 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On December 06 2019 16:38 NInoff wrote: So like i said before - don't bother trying to understand, just remember - they will play this TI. And they wil tryhard there. Until then things that happened this qualifiers will happen often. No matter if they make it to the minor or not. . Any game until TI you can quote me and skip the discussion - you are welcome :D | ||
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Julmust
Sweden4867 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
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MintberryCrunchs
Germany462 Posts
Yet somehow, when they come together, they loose against teams where they should have an advantage (and not even a small one) in every direct player comparison. For a long while now, it looks to me like there is some sort of inherent anti-synergy with this bunch of players. It seems very obvious when they loose game like those vs FP, but even when they win, it always seems to me like they are fighting against themselves more than versus their enemy's. Like they have to still figure something out, find the secret ingredient for their success. But in all honesty, i don't even remember when i have seen just a straight and solid "in the meta" draft from them. There seems to always have to be at least the one "extra" that makes them either look incredible, or, more often than not in the last time, feel like this endless struggle for their own identity ... | ||
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Anamorph
236 Posts
the second game was an outdraft too, they just won on individual performance and outplays.. and yes i call something an outdraft when the disadvantage is above 10 percent. nigma should just do 1 thing to advance - hire a professional drafter like keen who understands the players and also the meta and dota overall. get away from drafting theirselfs and trying to be creative in terms of drafting arc or even clinkz. this is just stupid. they re a freshly build up organization, they need sponsors and a structure in esport, you wont build this up by underperforming and not being interesting for sponsors. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
On January 10 2020 01:56 NInoff wrote: Any game until TI you can quote me and skip the discussion - you are welcome :D Looks like you are more than right. The interview given by Kuro was pretty straight forward saying that they are not in a good shape without a lot of scrims. Seems like they are playing just for fun without having the goal to win this tournament(if it happens anyway, it will be fine) and their ultimate target is to be on fire by the end of the season. | ||
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wims80
1892 Posts
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
gl tonight | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
let's go, last day | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
On January 13 2020 09:32 hunter_x wrote: holy shit what a series. I thought they were done after being behind in game 2 so much;) Thankfully, I saw the boys blow enough huge leads themselves so I always had faith that RNG would do the same. | ||
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f0xteam
79 Posts
On January 13 2020 09:44 juuto wrote: Thankfully, I saw the boys blow enough huge leads themselves so I always had faith that RNG would do the same. sry but i have to: you faith choose one | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
Lol true. | ||
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sCuMBaG
United Kingdom1144 Posts
On December 07 2019 04:42 sCuMBaG wrote: My hypothesis stands! Play as many games as possible. Still stands!! https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/enyw0e/the_winner_of_the_weplay_bukovel_minor_has_just/ | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Glad Nigma made it to the Major and does not have to play any more open qualifiers. Hope they will be doing a deep run at the Major, although the competition will be much harder. | ||
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Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
grats to the boys! looking forward to the major! you can do it! anyone else really waiting for the Nigma-Merch? (please no too shiny shirts) | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On January 13 2020 17:59 sCuMBaG wrote: Still stands!! https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/enyw0e/the_winner_of_the_weplay_bukovel_minor_has_just/ Kuro knows! The more drama for the fans - the higher the level of satisfaction for all of them when things go well. Since they were not skriming during the winter break - they decided to play ( the maximum ammount of games in this minor ) - 3. Every match 2:1 apart from the ones vs Furia and Geek fan. And the final finished 3:1 instead of 3:2. Who needs skrims when you have minors just 1 week before the major fro that. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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SFDuality
United States1318 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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MintberryCrunchs
Germany462 Posts
It had a lot of impact in the laning phase. Nullified the early game domination of their favored lich+ember in game 2 and shut down slark in game 3. I hope they bounce back from the lowers. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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GGman
Czech Republic143 Posts
Anyways, I do believe that they'll manage to get to a major or two more, poke their way to TI and it's not like anything else matters... | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On January 23 2020 05:29 Rufus Dupres wrote: Truly a shitshow today. MC was a non-factor in both series, feels like he is getting to much sacrificed in the games, don't know how often in this tournament, he was at the bottom of the network charts after the laning phase. Maybe the amount of games was finally exhausting them. Hopefully they will recover till next qualifiers. Lateley thats their playstyle - MC has to create space for wee and miracle, and even if he has a good start as he had with the BM game, he just plays too aggressiveley and gets cought. After 10 mins in he constantly moves and when some of the ganks fail he just dies 2-3 times in a row then there is nothing else there. If he took the time to farm a blink aghanims on the NS the game would've been different but hey - thats how it always happens - they just don't take things seriously and cosntantly try new stuff... Upper bracket they got outdrafted hard both games the lost - still we all knew things like that will happen, and that they will play TI - thats all that matters. I adopted the new strategy too - i enjoy other teams playing ( Saving Nigma emotions for TI) - This major i am rooting for Liquid, BeastCoast and Alliance. The most fun watching dota a man can have these days. | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
So we saw haw OG have a plan for every game, even "we just run at them" is a better strat than - try and farm BKBs and win. Actually Nigma are doing this for years - and its a good strat usually - just split cores, farm one dies others keep farming. But sometimes they get stomped so hard that they look silly. And seems like they are unable to see the difference when they could continue that strat or when they should sit behind a core and bait, trying to take a fight and come back this way. Especially game two showed me how underprepared Nigma were (are?). Coments like - TA, Tide we win, or Who picks Monkey King mid - its just bad. And then getting stomped hard mean that there is something major missing there. Also i am very very dissappointed by w33, he doesn't bring anything to the team as knowledge. And thats very very important. Having a game plan is essential most games in the past year or two are won during the draft. And shit like pick this hero coz its good this patch are just not good enough - you should have a strategy prepared for every situation - opponent going to aggressive in the first 1-2 picks, then we do this or this, opponent goint way too greedy - then we punish them by that strat, oppponents are going for a lot of sustain - then we do this, things like that. Studying opponents is very very important. We can just see the difference in the drafts and strategy with Heen and now.. And they made it extra hard on them by starting a new ORG, as thats time wasted in management instead of watching replays and studying the game. So if Nigma don't change their approach to the game they will fail. | ||
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kerpal
United Kingdom2695 Posts
On February 03 2020 18:12 NInoff wrote: This years True Sight made one thing clear. You just cna not rely anymore on your carry "feelings" for the game. The players are so evenly matched that these days its all about strategy. So we saw haw OG have a plan for every game, even "we just run at them" is a better strat than - try and farm BKBs and win. Actually Nigma are doing this for years - and its a good strat usually - just split cores, farm one dies others keep farming. But sometimes they get stomped so hard that they look silly. And seems like they are unable to see the difference when they could continue that strat or when they should sit behind a core and bait, trying to take a fight and come back this way. Especially game two showed me how underprepared Nigma were (are?). Coments like - TA, Tide we win, or Who picks Monkey King mid - its just bad. And then getting stomped hard mean that there is something major missing there. Also i am very very dissappointed by w33, he doesn't bring anything to the team as knowledge. And thats very very important. Having a game plan is essential most games in the past year or two are won during the draft. And shit like pick this hero coz its good this patch are just not good enough - you should have a strategy prepared for every situation - opponent going to aggressive in the first 1-2 picks, then we do this or this, opponent goint way too greedy - then we punish them by that strat, oppponents are going for a lot of sustain - then we do this, things like that. Studying opponents is very very important. We can just see the difference in the drafts and strategy with Heen and now.. And they made it extra hard on them by starting a new ORG, as thats time wasted in management instead of watching replays and studying the game. So if Nigma don't change their approach to the game they will fail. remember that true sight is cut and edited to tell a story, while there are probably a lot of things going on - for example the 'who picks monkey mid' comment. There's no context in the editing for why w33 said that there, it might be an in joke among the team, or w33 is just fed up of playing vs it (i think no[o]ne picked it against them earlier in the tourney?) or anything we don't know about. Most of all it makes good tv, particularly in a documentary that is primarily about OG winning, for w33 to sound cocky and then be humbled later. I'm not saying true sight is trying to be deceitful, i'm just saying that you can't read much into it because you get probably about 2% of the actual communication in the team, cut in a way designed to entertain rather than to inform. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On February 04 2020 04:08 Sapaio wrote: I cheer for OG, but feel that blaming W33 for takling there own draft up and OG's downis wrong. I remember Ceb takling about how OG did some thing semilar during TI8 and it's simply about you as a team need to go into a game feeling confident. If you feel u lost the draft you half way lost the game. It can look stupid viewing back, but if u think W33 should have said MK is going to crush is better i disagree. Im not blaming anyone in perticular. That was just an example. I am blaming the whole team for the lack of full strategy. If your cores feel it - it is not enough anymore, and it will never be consistent as they will be very oftern wrong. As with the w33 example - Who plays Monkey Mid, and then gets crushed by it. | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
Seriously, I checked the stats:  The International/2019/StatisticsMonkey King was picked 6(!) times in the whole TI9 games! That is not a number that says "that is a great hero to pick"! So w33s "who picks MK?" is quite reasonable! | ||
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MintberryCrunchs
Germany462 Posts
Going 1-1 versus Viking and beeing down 0 - 1 vs Agressive is very disheartening. Those 2 Teams arent even close Tier 2 contenders ... | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
But maybe it is all but a great curve ball by Kuro to keep the opponent's believing they are out of shape and we will see the full power tomorrow and at the playoffs. A vague hope but all what is left actually. | ||
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MintberryCrunchs
Germany462 Posts
Out of shape seems to be an understatement, given the current performance. Im starting to think that they are at a point, where reshuffling completly might be better for this stack of players. Sometimes in relationships you just end up in a dynamic, where you cant change your ways unless you get massive outside influence and are stuck in bad ways. Seems to me, thats the case here. They seem to not be able to find any form of Synergy anymore, no matter what or how hard you try. I dont think this roster will play this TI together tbh. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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MintberryCrunchs
Germany462 Posts
I honestly dont think so. This must be so draining for them. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Looks true that he was indeed not the problem. | ||
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SFDuality
United States1318 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
On February 10 2020 06:42 Rufus Dupres wrote: Don't know...second game lost as well. So tomorrow they need a 4:0 to have a shot at the upper bracket, but I can see already Matu giggling and slapping his former team mates out of this qualifiers. Looks true that he was indeed not the problem. Let's not even entertain the idea that they have a shot at the upper bracket. They don't and I hope there's no Nigma fan in the world foolish enough to think that they'll make it. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Well...tomorrow it can only get better as we have already reached the bottom. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
If they don't want to fix their mental problems, the least they could do is disband and do each other a favor. | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
On February 10 2020 21:55 Pontual wrote: Minor is good enough, this way they farm more dpc points Well let's hope they're good enough for the Minor. | ||
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kerpal
United Kingdom2695 Posts
nigma recently (actually for quite a while now) seems to be a team that can beat anyone, but also is capable of losing to literally anyone. :/ | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Anybody saying that W33 is the better midlaner gets a big middle finger right into the face when watching this game. Any initiation is getting whiffed by Snapfire who just cookie out a stunned target from MK and AA ult... Looking dire again. :/ EDIT: MC having a day off as well. Missing coils and questionable itemization. Why going Travels first on Puck instead of a blink or Veil? | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On February 10 2020 23:06 juuto wrote: Anybody find anything that brings joy to their life that can possibly make up for the absolute depression that Nigma gives them? Dude i will say this one more time just and especially for you. Nigma don't care for anything but TI. That is why they sometimes play weird ( i got to admit this time it is too much) and are losing left right and center. They don't need money, they've won literally everything but second TI. And they are underestimating how people are preparing for the game, and how much opponents are preparing. I am pretty sure that they don't play dota togheter for more than 2-3 scrims / week. Also noone else thinks about that but runing a org is no joke - thats why Nigma are with 1 foot out of my hearth - trying to do "business" things when you have to play dota... and greeding never leads to success, at least not long term. And Kuro has 0 experience on runing an org. That takes a lot time and energy and you just don't have the juice left in you to actually prepare for dota. However it is true that they look worse than usual. Maybe this is the end, maybe they will find a way out who knows. But do what i did after TI - just choose a different team that will actually play dota before TI, and when TI comes root for Nigma. The other way around is called mazochism. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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kerpal
United Kingdom2695 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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sCuMBaG
United Kingdom1144 Posts
I don't know, but it genuinely fills me with joy Especially after hearing MATU say that it's good to know he wasn't the problem. | ||
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kerpal
United Kingdom2695 Posts
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MintberryCrunchs
Germany462 Posts
On February 10 2020 23:13 NInoff wrote: Dude i will say this one more time just and especially for you. Nigma don't care for anything but TI. That is why they sometimes play weird ( i got to admit this time it is too much) and are losing left right and center. Unfortunatly, this is not a viable strategy for winning it nor is it something any team would ever aim for. These players play to win, they play to win on the highest level with the highest competition. They hate to loose. Thats the competitive mindset. If you dont have this mindset, you might aswell not even go to TI at all, as you for sure wont win a TI without the absolute will to win. And at this stage, any Tier 1 team, like Secret, OG, EG etc. only care for TI. Those that won it, because they have enough money those who havnt won it, because well, they have to win it, right?!? The "Nigma only cares for TI" is honestly not a (viable) argument at all! | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On February 11 2020 01:11 MintberryCrunchs wrote: Unfortunatly, this is not a viable strategy for winning it nor is it something any team would ever aim for. These players play to win, they play to win on the highest level with the highest competition. They hate to loose. Thats the competitive mindset. If you dont have this mindset, you might aswell not even go to TI at all, as you for sure wont win a TI without the absolute will to win. And at this stage, any Tier 1 team, like Secret, OG, EG etc. only care for TI. Those that won it, because they have enough money those who havnt won it, because well, they have to win it, right?!? The "Nigma only cares for TI" is honestly not a (viable) argument at all! Well if you care for tournaments different than ti you tryhard on every one and not skip a single one. You can check Nigma and OG schedule for the last two years. Once you win it - you don't really care for anything else. Yeah winning is nice, but since teams of this caliber know they can make it to TI, they are saving strength and motivation for TI. Plus now that we are back to the major patch system twice an year we all know that this is not the patch people are going to play during TI so... Don't get me wrong - noone wants to lose from bunch of random teams. But if you really want to do well in a qualifier and or major you just scrim a lot and your team plays a lot of random pub games to practice the patch. Just check The 10 people that won TI the last 3 years ranking... ( apart from MATU who actually enjoys dota again) all the rest are either not there, or very low on the board because they dont play enough. Now You can check for example how Nigma players were ranked the year prior TI7.. see the difference. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Hope they can somehow pull through and get some more DPC-points. | ||
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Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
And just like that they teamwipe Liquid with a perfectly executed fight. This squad tho... EDIT: Game was closer than it should have been after being ahead 15k and a rax. Liquid is really having issues to close out games without giving their fans a rollercoaster of a ride. EDIT2: Beatdown in the second game so far. If you pick Medusa last, give him some sort of save and help securing the lane. Not a fucking Puck which did nothing. | ||
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GGman
Czech Republic143 Posts
Time for a typical LB run? | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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Qualitaetsgarant
124 Posts
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Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
 But overall i'm glad to see Alliance qualify over them, all of them have been playing much better, great plays to hold that game and tilt nigma. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
Everyone else is trying their best all season and these guys thought failing to qualify for the second Major from qualifiers was a sign from God that they're too good to bootcamp. | ||
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its_a_me
Austria612 Posts
Ever after they were not the same, strangs drafts, no chemistry, lifeless, stupid plays. Atfer the Matu kick they had a short high but now they are back to the dumpster. They used to play such a lovely aggressive timing oriented style, now its just some random shit. | ||
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BadAim
Norway879 Posts
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lasl
Romania21 Posts
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
Unless someone posts the actuall audio of their communication there is noone to convince me they tryharded for this qualifiers ( both major and minor ) . Unfortunateley this means that there is lack of motivation - and that will lead to not enough practice for the patch that actually matters - the next one, and underpreparation for TI. Whatever - Alliance made it, im still happy | ||
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ChickenDieAlive
699 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
On February 15 2020 05:20 BadAim wrote: Seems like the TI slump hit the team pretty hard. They're not in sync at all. No tourneys for the next, what, three months? There is next week a tournament where they are participating with Secret etc.(WeTow or WeTug), after that they will probably rest and (hopefully) make a bootcamp before the next qualifiers. | ||
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BadAim
Norway879 Posts
There was no reason at all to not pull back after megas. | ||
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atmankulkarni
India109 Posts
Last time they did it & got what 150 points!!!! Don't think that's worth unless they solve issues they are having (mental, chemistry, whatever..) during these tournaments. Better take break for few weeks and start fresh (not necessarily player wise but mentally) in next qualifiers. I hope this is a wakeup call if they even needed one. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
Can't think of many free agents and think getting players from other teams can be hard. GBK is having problems with Gambit so that would be my target or Hector if they can make a deal for him. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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warrior4093
100 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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warrior4093
100 Posts
On February 20 2020 13:29 juuto wrote: What I saw from them on Day 1 was decent, I think the drafts were actually better than before. It didn't feel like it was two patches behind and they lost the Winner's Match in a 3 game series. This is far better than their other long list of horrendous group stage performance. For Nigma, it's not a miraculous performance, but let's be realistic, they could've looked way worse because they have a talent for shitting the bed in groups. That is surprisingly accurate. lol , when they formed nigma , expectations were quite high and rightly so but Kuro has to step up big time here. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/40n762x2g3i41.png) Seems like they have fun. The games looked better compared to the Majors, but okay they have nothing to lose. Tomorrow then against Dendi and hopefully another series against Secret. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
One game away from the match against Secret, doubt that any other Team except of Secret will give Nigma Tiny/Io in this tournament. | ||
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kerpal
United Kingdom2695 Posts
oooh i get it - this way they can play one extra game because you can play an extra UB game before going to the first round of the LB.. (yeah, what a weird format) | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On February 21 2020 22:46 kerpal wrote: nigma missing an opportunity to go to the lower bracket. uncharacteristic of them. oooh i get it - this way they can play one extra game because you can play an extra UB game before going to the first round of the LB.. (yeah, what a weird format) Yep, wining now, losing later gives you extra match easy free skrims. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
EDIT: What a showing now in the second game...when was the last time Secret got dominated that hard although they had the better draft with their last pick Brood? Team Rollercoaster...at least this must give them some confidence. | ||
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Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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warrior4093
100 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
On February 22 2020 05:26 warrior4093 wrote: despite what everyone thinks , i would say drafting was much better and play style also better , sure mistakes were made , but overall tier 1 performance . But they cant play 4P1 forever , so i really hope they can play different playstyles when needed. I definitely agree they're very strong now which is why all my negative comments are directed towards the guy who dove 1v5 twice in a row which completely lost them the game. They would've won if the guy who won't be attending DPC events for a long while just played smart. | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On February 22 2020 05:12 juuto wrote: Miracle single handedly throwing Nigma games by himself once again. Can't even blame the rest of the team when there's only one glaring problem that jumps in solo vs 5 people twice This was an awesome series. Finally some Nigma games that they actually decide to play dota. Couple of mistakes can and will happen. When playing against teams so good you will lose sometimes. And miracle had to be aggressive so they can end the game. Incase you missed what happened when lesh and morph got items. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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kerpal
United Kingdom2695 Posts
I hope they fight through the lb. They look like the only teamthat can challenge secret at this event, but we know they also could lose to a-mode if they try hard enough. | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
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SFDuality
United States1318 Posts
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On February 22 2020 22:31 SFDuality wrote: What the hell is this game? This is such a waste of time. They almost killed enemy mid twice. It was a close game. This just proves that Nigma will never play on 100% unless its ti. It is a completly different thing what this tells about your motivation. No proffesional should ever have a mindset of not wanting to win. This shows disrespect to your fans, your sponsors and even to yourselves. Kyle is right to be upset. I too don't care if they win, i know they can get to TI. But i want to watch good dota, and this was worse than most low MMR pubs. And thats too much even for me... The biggest problem is that because of that kind of dota lateley the interst in dota is going down - just check on the viewer interest in general evein in Majors and the comments in this site... noone bothers, i myself am skipping a lot of games even on my favourite teams... And why is that? Because top teams are playing like clowns very often... After all i want to watch good dota, thats all. That kind of mindset ruins the whole scene. I am thruly deeply disappointed and i am withrawing my support for this team until they prove to me that they want to play good dota no matter what. | ||
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SFDuality
United States1318 Posts
It's one thing to experiment and try things out that you think might be good. That's not what this was. Nigma had no interest whatsoever in winning this game, or in using it to improve. What was the point? They just wasted everyone's time. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34486 Posts
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Yurie
11757 Posts
On February 23 2020 06:42 Firebolt145 wrote: I didn't get to watch the games... What are you guys unhappy about? | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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SFDuality
United States1318 Posts
The role swaps in the second game against Gambit were more reasonable, and with an actually serious draft. I have nothing against them if they do that, and actually try to win. But that wasn't the case in the game against A. Mode. The draft was ridiculous, the lanes were ridiculous, and they played like they would much rather be taking a nap. From start to finish they had no interest in winning that game. And that's just wrong in a competitive environment. They're lucky no one's accusing them of match fixing. And if they had lost that third game? Whatever. It's done, they'll move on, I'll move on, and hopefully they don't pull that shit again. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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MintberryCrunchs
Germany462 Posts
But you cant make mistakes with a timing push/cheese strat versus Secret, all it takes is 1 real mistake and the game is out of your hand. | ||
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MintberryCrunchs
Germany462 Posts
But they making some good relocate gangs happen ... | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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its_a_me
Austria612 Posts
Somehow after game 2 they switched rolls. GZ to them finally a sign of life. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34486 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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Rocket-Bear
3070 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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MintberryCrunchs
Germany462 Posts
I love how they sort of found a style and identity they enjoyed or thought fitting and went with it to the end. I really hope and wish that this gives them a huge boost of confidence and momentum for their teamchemistry in the way forward towards the International. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
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noh2o
China71 Posts
On February 24 2020 06:10 hunter_x wrote: Good job, grats to the boys. very dominant play in the last three games. see you at the next major qualifier in a few month.... haha,nigma comes back.next champion is epicenter major | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
On February 26 2020 12:08 noh2o wrote: haha,nigma comes back.next champion is epicenter major Safe bet actually at least that they make it to the final day. Two times champion, two times runner-up. Epicenter was their tournament since the first iteration. | ||
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noh2o
China71 Posts
On February 26 2020 17:51 Rufus Dupres wrote: Safe bet actually at least that they make it to the final day. Two times champion, two times runner-up. Epicenter was their tournament since the first iteration. yes! | ||
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noh2o
China71 Posts
On February 24 2020 06:12 Rufus Dupres wrote: A much needed confidence booster for this Team. Winning three games in a row against Secret...amazing. Now give us a similar showing at the next major qualifiers. sure,more confidence, nigma(ex liquid) never win against secret in bo5 | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
On March 12 2020 13:40 juuto wrote: Congratulation to Team Nigma for failing to qualify for an event that was cancelled anyways! If they can't attend the Major, nobody can. All according to plan... Never questioning Kuro again...the Mastermind behind all this! | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
2019 2nd place at Paris Major and Epicenter, 2018 2nd place at Epicenter + win at Supermajor 2017 Winning Epicenter and Dreamleague 2016 2nd place at Manila Major + Win at Epicenter. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
As usual, OG has the numbers against Nigma...shutting down MC, easy win. Back to the drawing board for the boys. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
[Edit]: Their games still fucking suck to watch. Nigma ALWAYS do this. Their games are frequently so unwatchable and totally piss poor in quality, you can't expect anything decent from them these days because they only occasionally deliver. Wow, they beat Secret twice, and if you're ever moronic enough to think that'll mean they're on the patch to becoming a more consistent team, you'd be wrong. They can get second place at the highest level tournaments and disappoint you massively the very next day. Their games don't even count as competitive Dota because whatever the hell Kuroky is coming up with doesn't make sense. We're not watching a team that actually understands the meta at all. The meta is right in front of their faces and they're just a bunch of hipster kids that think they'll manage to beat it with these awful unpopular picks. These aren't bad series where they struggle, it's just straight up stupidity. I just want to enjoy their games, is that so wrong these days? I can accept having a bad day but I can't accept just how low quality these games are and it's all coming from Nigma. This is not acceptable play or drafting from them. | ||
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Savatage
Italy182 Posts
On April 04 2020 23:04 juuto wrote: This was so disappointing because I haven't been enjoying any of the games played lately and thought maybe this series would be different lol. Turns out, it was a quick stomp and I interrupted my plans for this! [Edit]: Their games still fucking suck to watch. Nigma ALWAYS do this. Their games are frequently so unwatchable and totally piss poor in quality, you can't expect anything decent from them these days because they only occasionally deliver. Wow, they beat Secret twice, and if you're ever moronic enough to think that'll mean they're on the patch to becoming a more consistent team, you'd be wrong. They can get second place at the highest level tournaments and disappoint you massively the very next day. Their games don't even count as competitive Dota because whatever the hell Kuroky is coming up with doesn't make sense. We're not watching a team that actually understands the meta at all. The meta is right in front of their faces and they're just a bunch of hipster kids that think they'll manage to beat it with these awful unpopular picks. These aren't bad series where they struggle, it's just straight up stupidity. I just want to enjoy their games, is that so wrong these days? I can accept having a bad day but I can't accept just how low quality these games are and it's all coming from Nigma. This is not acceptable play or drafting from them. i agree 100%, today's games vs current Liquid are exacly like that | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
We were actually speculating if they play seriously all the time outside of TI, and Kuro Confirmed that they don't in an interview during the ESL LA online tournament. Also when Liquid plays Liquid Liquid Always wins. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Except of GH and to an extent Miracle who is also having a lot of questionable deaths lately, the whole team feels completely out of shape without any coordination at all. Euling a target which is inside pit of malice? Cmon, are you kidding me? As if they are playing with one hand tied at their back. You have to be sadistic to somehow endure watching any of their games. | ||
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
the boys are just going to clean the floor with the opponents again. Let's go! StarsAlign! | ||
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maddraks
Bulgaria6 Posts
But on the other hand look what OG are doing.. with ping.. with stand-ins. It's great to be OG fan right now. I wish I can feel those Liquid vibes from 1-2 years ago for our guys from Nigma. I miss them sooo much. And for this new organisation the start wasn't great (like most of us have wished) especially knowing what the boys are capable of... | ||
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
honestly, it feels like fresh wind is missing. would love for kuro to just tell his taemmates to goof around in pubs and learn 2-3 new heroes each. widen the hero pool, play new styles. in a patch where you don't lose leads so early nigma should honestly be dominating. but the fire is missing. | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
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Savatage
Italy182 Posts
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xM(Z
Romania5278 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
Major/Minor/TI is: Bootcamp and tournament. Maybe 3-4 weeks of full power! Then, relax! Here it is just a constant flow of single games over weeeeks! There is basically no "highpoint" wher you could focus. I will be interested how this Bounty Hunt thing will be for Nigma. I wouldn't be surprised if they loose a lot there too, but get most of the Bounties! | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
They have absoluteley no knowledge of the patch. Maybe they should take dota like a job and actually play it for 8 hours a day. They are averaging 10-12 kills / game. They are being humiliated by every team, and they deserved every humiliation they got as after being outdrafted and outplayed by every proffesional player in europe you can do nothing but take it. No matter how good you are if you don't work hard you will get f*cked in the place that never sees light. Every time. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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Archeon
3253 Posts
They also don't play a lot of meta heroes, GH's Kotl is pretty much the only one I'd consider good right now. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
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PastaProphet
1 Post
On May 07 2020 00:04 NInoff wrote: Thist tournament just proves what we talked about in the past year almost, since this team betrayed their fans and left Liquid. Caring only for TI leads to this - Had to reddit-register just to address this, as I see it so commonly when people discuss Nigma. The guys on Nigma are (not quite as much past few months) a tier 1 team, who have had good chances at taking most tournaments they've involved themselves in. If you're part of an organisation, you are contracted to perform in certain events, participate with sponsors, and give your team a certain cut (in most cases). After years of this, who can honestly blame the guys for wanting to give it a shot on their own? It's not a "betraying their fans" to want to start off on their own. Particularly for someone in the game as long as Kuro, hardly surprising he wanted to run his own team for a change. | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On May 08 2020 02:58 PastaProphet wrote: Had to reddit-register just to address this, as I see it so commonly when people discuss Nigma. The guys on Nigma are (not quite as much past few months) a tier 1 team, who have had good chances at taking most tournaments they've involved themselves in. If you're part of an organisation, you are contracted to perform in certain events, participate with sponsors, and give your team a certain cut (in most cases). After years of this, who can honestly blame the guys for wanting to give it a shot on their own? It's not a "betraying their fans" to want to start off on their own. Particularly for someone in the game as long as Kuro, hardly surprising he wanted to run his own team for a change. Well im a fan and i feel betrayed. And i am not the only one. After living and dreaming with the boys for so many years, past year i feel more for Alliance and current NiP and ofcourse Liquid than i do for Nigma. What does runing a org mean? Some freedom, more responsibilities ( That don't help you to focus on the game) and most importantly - More money. So if you do something for money you are not doing it for the fun of it, and for the fans, therefore you lose your fans respect and they feel betrayed. Those are not just words man - just watch any games they played in the last 2 months..- at least last year there used to be some fire against OG or VP or Secret, now its just shallow and empty dota... | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34486 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On May 14 2020 22:52 Rufus Dupres wrote: So...tomorrow against OG in the "Gamers Without Borders" - Charity Tournament. Hope this time, they will be more of a challenge to OG than the last times. Wondering if Topson will participate as well, heard rumours that he is finally back from Far East. Yep, first team that picks an in your face lineup and goes farming for 15 mins Its like picking medusa and starts diving Tier 3 towers 6 mins in. With this lineup Nigma should be pushing non stop after necro 1 hits but nope. Seems like they are the only team in europe that doesn't understand the patch at all. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On May 10 2020 00:42 Firebolt145 wrote: Well, it didn't last very long until they sold it.Secret was them running an organisation and look where they are. I don't think you can just put the blame on that. | ||
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laa.kiroskirin
Thailand2 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
On May 29 2020 12:47 laa.kiroskirin wrote: It's possible that TI10 motivates them so this ESL looking good so far. We dont even know when TI10 will take place, so I doubt same is the reason. They did not even practice for this tournament, but looks like they are slowly getting back into shape. The coming days will show how good they are as the top contenders of their group are coming with Vikin.GG, Liquid and Secret on the final day. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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kerpal
United Kingdom2695 Posts
i wouldn't put it in the same category as an AM pick or something. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Anyhow, going 6:1 without having scrimmed before is a very good showing after their lackluster results in the past tournaments. VP.P can be beaten if Kuro is not getting to creative with his drafts and pick heroes which are in the meta and suiting their playstyle. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
For a team that's lazy as hell, I guess they're doing okay, but I wish we weren't dealing with a team plagued by an endless amount of complacency and laziness. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
ppd mentioned it already during drafting that Nigma tried to replace the Beastmaster with the Lycan which will not work as Lycan has no bkb-piercing stun, inferior vision game, no safe wave clear with Axes. Feels like the old Puppey habit to try beating the opponents strongest strategy with the same draft and not make it easier for yourself by adjusting your bans. Definitely winnable series... So...Ah shit, (lower bracket) here we go again. | ||
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Anamorph
236 Posts
Can not understand the troll ban instead. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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MintberryCrunchs
Germany462 Posts
I do really appreciate the change in drafting during that series (didnt watch much nigma, maybe they played like this before?). Giving more space and priority to Mind Control and making him an integral part of their strategy while shifting Wee even more towards a space creating/sacrificial mid player seems like a very promising approach and the right and much needed change. I was also pleasantly surprised by Wee's Invoker. I think they all played well and had a lot of synergy and the loss was mostly due to a tactical/drafting mistake that tipped the favor towards VPP | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Hope you had a look today on Kuro´s plays if not watch at least game 3 of their series against Liquid...a lot of game changing swaps/plays from this "ridicolously low skilled" player. Everybody is looking bad against Puppey currently... Surviving the elimination game for now which gives us at least two more series. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
On June 10 2020 02:36 Rufus Dupres wrote: Although I agree that they are not hard trying to win anything, I do not agree that Kuro is a low skiled player, you are staying in the T1-scene for over a decade not without a reason. Hope you had a look today on Kuro´s plays if not watch at least game 3 of their series against Liquid...a lot of game changing swaps/plays from this "ridicolously low skilled" player. Everybody is looking bad against Puppey currently... Surviving the elimination game for now which gives us at least two more series. While other pos 5 players are fighting for top spots on the leaderboards, Kuro is nowhere near them. He's known for not playing much pubs and now the team is admitting multiple times to not scrimming. So when does he even play the game outside of officials? We'd not have any games to judge them on if they actually had to earn their spots in these tournaments instead of relying on their popularity and a pandemic to get them free spots into events. T1 players should be held to a high standard and Kuro is probably one of the lowest MMR players currently on a pro team at that level. He 100% deserves the criticism. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
On June 11 2020 01:17 juuto wrote: We'd not have any games to judge them on if they actually had to earn their spots in these tournaments instead of relying on their popularity and a pandemic to get them free spots into events. T1 players should be held to a high standard and Kuro is probably one of the lowest MMR players currently on a pro team at that level. He 100% deserves the criticism. This is purely theoretical, it may also be that they would just show up in this time of the year as they did in the past three years. We just dont know how they would be playing without the COVID-19 restrictions. The lack of scrimming/bootcamping is causing them the same troubles like it does for OG. In addition, 3 of Nigma are playing on a ping of abt. 120, not ideal as well. Today again, his plays were not the reason why they lost to Secret, the loss in game 1 lies purely on the cores with not going for BKB except w33 and getting caught out of position multiple times and being blown up right at the start of a fight. They are slowly improving, basically winning two laning stages against Secret is already something many teams have not been capable of doing. | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
There is a term for when you do the same thing over and over and expect a different outcome, but i wont state it here out of respect. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
Also: An era came to an end! Before that game the last time Nigma lost with w33po was group stages TI9 vs Secret! That is quite a streak for that hero! | ||
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midou
Bulgaria1168 Posts
Why did they replace Matu with W33 when they pick viper/pugna mid all the time... | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34486 Posts
On June 15 2020 02:54 midou wrote: I have not been following dota and nigma so much in the last year, just the big tournaments. Why did they replace Matu with W33 when they pick viper/pugna mid all the time... Because they can now also pick TA / Windrunner / Meepo | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
Kuro definitely is looking like a star player himself lately. I hope they keep it up and don't lose this momentum. | ||
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Toc1982
5 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
Puppey has been working for years to be on top of his game mechanically while Kuro has just now started trying to catch up after years of neglect. Kuro is just far too behind Puppey for him to catch up in skill level this soon. Puppey is no longer just a captain, he is a star player on the same level as Nisha, Zai, and Matumbaman. The reason for Secret's dominance is obvious when you see a captain as incredibly skilled and impactful as Puppey while other captains cannot compare. Keep practicing Kuro. They did well to get here but it's not enough. | ||
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
This was a good tournament and everything seems good to go further. Go Nigma! Looking for merch! | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
I am pretty sure except of Secret, they would have won against any other Team(in their current forms) these two games. Secret was just able to punish Nigma for the slightest mistake so goddamn heavy. At least Nigma was competetive in two out of three games. Latest at TI Nigma got Secret´s number again and drop them out of the tournament. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
On June 30 2020 23:31 derElbe wrote: Why so negative? This was a good tournament and everything seems good to go further. Go Nigma! Looking for merch! Can you really ever be too negative towards a team that before a pandemic couldn't qualify for tournaments? | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
Personally, I just don't think they're currently a team worth being "positive" about. I like to stay on the realistic side because putting myself into a positivity bubble that constantly bursts due to Nigma's completely hot to cold track record just isn't possible. There was a time when these players were a consistent team up until their TI win. I can't say I don't want those days back. I don't even need Secret levels of complete dominance but consistency would be a start. | ||
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lasl
Romania21 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Strong and solid drafts except that little experimental Jakiro mid which nearly worked out as well. Teamfight coordination on point, nearly perfect usage of all spells in their games. I think they strongly benefit of the new ban/drafting phase. They will always get someone on a comfort hero. You cannot allow them to get Io, you cannot give them the Phoenix/Void-combo. W33´s bat is first phase ban material as well as he is just ruining the laning of the opponent mid player and create chaos afterwards so that Miracle can farm his items. GH played out of his mind...Rubick, Clockwerk, Phoenix, Io...truly the MVP of this tournament. I would have loved to see them play against Secret. rmn played amazing...if Kuro is ever consider to retire, rmn looks like a perfect fit for this squad. Should give them quite the confidence boost for the Omega-League in two weeks. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
Also interesting to see how much impact fatal bonds had during the lane, I always knew the spell was strong, but Nigma really won some safelanes vs alliance I didn't see them win. Tbf exhaustion was obviously a factor for alliance, Limp dying to 10 napalm stacks and the offlane feding first blood to warlock + spectre were just some of the crasser outliers. Still a great performance. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
On August 02 2020 10:20 Archeon wrote: It's kinda interesting to see GH move into a 3.5 position similar to Yapzor. My impression is that rmn plays quite a bit less selfish than Kuro, which gives GH more space. Nigma is a team that normally has 4 core players and w33 and my takeaway is that they do better with less greedy drafts. True, guess same is the benefit when W33 is playing bat rider, he basically need only one/two items to stay relevant for a whole game giving your other players the option to soak up some farm. I was astonished that rmn got also a decent farm on his heroes. It felt like he was never below the enemy pos. 5 and just like the Secret-supp duo he was having at least one item around the 20 min mark, either a force staff or a Vlads to help his team. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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Archeon
3253 Posts
Now they loose one match against likely one of the strongest teams in the scene and it's all "Nigma sucks" again. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
But this bashing of Nigma when k-god is not playing and deciding is stupid. He will be back! | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Just like Nigma apparently got the numbers from Liquid and Alliance, OG has it from Nigma, they are somehow able to make this team do mistakes and lose their composure while other teams are not able to do this. Really strange... Nevertheless, placing Top3 with a stand-in, without bootcamp and/or a specific preparation after all is good. Still not able to beat the top dogs, but at least no more unnecessary losses against lesser skilled teams. Will be interesting to see what they can accomplish after a full bootcamp and playing on low ping. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
On September 07 2020 05:18 Geisterkarle wrote: If I understood it corrctly, Miracle does the shotcalling in the absence of Kuroky. And, well, Miracle is a flashy, aggressive player. Probably couldn't help himself! But this bashing of Nigma when k-god is not playing and deciding is stupid. He will be back! It's not bashing, it's criticism. If you want to see bashing, go check what people are saying about w33 all the time. I'm just saying that they make some absurdly ridiculous in game decisions sometimes and it's true. What else is there to discuss about a team if all we do is ignore all the negatives? There would be nothing to discuss. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
Seems like OG just have w33's number, I dunno, maybe they just need to pick his hero earlier in the draft. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
It has been a problem for years and they really need to work on that. Topson and w33 are the same player type, I wouldn't be surprised if that plays in favor of Topson who I think is overall slightly more skilled and has a broader hero pool. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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Muffloe
Sweden6061 Posts
On September 14 2020 18:38 Archeon wrote: Topson and w33 are the same player type, I wouldn't be surprised if that plays in favor of Topson who I think is overall slightly more skilled and has a broader hero pool. Too be faire tho, how many people play Invoker and Meepo at a world class level? I think w33 is in a slump currently, but historically he has gotta be one o the most skilled players | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
They really need their shot caller and Captain back... | ||
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lasl
Romania21 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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MintberryCrunchs
Germany462 Posts
They are so incredibly talented individuals, but they cant find the chemistry that made them so good long ago. On the contrary, it really feels like they are stuck in this endless loop of not getting it together, no matter how hard they try. And i dont think it is the lack of Kurokys leadership right now, because its been going on way longer than his break. If anything, the departure from Matu and his huge succes in Secret now should make them realize how draining and detrimental to succes the current situation is. It probably takes some courage to do it, but i think these players will find new homes fast and it is for the best of all to try something new. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:53 MintberryCrunchs wrote: It saddens me to say, but i honestly think it is time for them to accept that whatever magic was there years ago is gone now and it is time to move on. They are so incredibly talented individuals, but they cant find the chemistry that made them so good long ago. On the contrary, it really feels like they are stuck in this endless loop of not getting it together, no matter how hard they try. And i dont think it is the lack of Kurokys leadership right now, because its been going on way longer than his break. If anything, the departure from Matu and his huge succes in Secret now should make them realize how draining and detrimental to succes the current situation is. It probably takes some courage to do it, but i think these players will find new homes fast and it is for the best of all to try something new. Part of me wants to agree, but with their current line-up they have still had one, if not the, most successful seasons in EU after Secret. They won the (only) minor (Jan), they won a few show matches/small tournaments (Feb-Mar), and they won Dota Pit S2 (July). I don't think they necessarily look better than Alliance or OG at the moment, but these teams haven't won a single event this year. To me, they aren't playing as well as I would expect given the players. But I don't think they are far off from being in the range of the 2-4'th best team in EU. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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SFDuality
United States1318 Posts
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
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Snowball8
4 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
W33 finally able to style on Topson after being humilitated so many times before. Hope they will use the free days to get some more practice. The decision making was also much better, at least compared to OGs. Whatever Ceb thought with his yolo jump onto the highground without any backup, he delivered Nigma the game on the silver plate there. | ||
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Snowball8
4 Posts
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wims80
1892 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Let´s cross fingers they have a similar showing today against "Just Error". | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Really ruined my Sunday evening...should have watched something else. | ||
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MintberryCrunchs
Germany462 Posts
On November 23 2020 05:58 Rufus Dupres wrote: Horrible series against VP. That draft in Game 2 was set to fail from the very beginning. Really ruined my Sunday evening...should have watched something else. I can really understand where you are coming from. I had some similar situation when i was still considering Nigma to be my favorite team. But their ups and downs are really heartbreaking for a fan and i decided that its not possible for me to root a team with such high ambitions that has such a shaky performance. And like i sort of wrote before, i dont see that this is going to change anytime. Steel feel they would be better of going separate ways. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
It is so more frustrating to know that this Team has everything what it takes to be a constant top team. I do not know what puppey is telling his teammates, but maybe Kuro should have a word with him and get some advices on how to motivate a team permanently, but i do not hope that it will be smashing some monitors. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
I'm also unsure about the split-up plan, 3/5 don't have significant performances outside of this team. They also mostly click together, so that seems like an unnecessary risk for everyone but Kuro and Miracle and considering that Sumail is struggling with his teams and that most top tier teams have a pos 1 supercarry Miracle isn't exactly safe to immediately find a spot in a good roster. And on a third note VP looked pretty dominant throughout the bracket and Nigma was in a spot where they could allow themselves to experiment and their drafts were pretty experimental. I wouldn't put much value on this loss. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
@Archeon: True, Kuro formed GH and MC to be word class-players, Miracle and W33 had been earning their first merits at other teams. But given on the current performances, I think that GH may be the one and only who will get picked up in the first phase. This man is absolutely phenomenal. Giving his positive attitude as well..Jackpot...at least teamwise. Although there is no free spot in a T1-Team right now, but this player gives you so much flexibility in your drafting as you have to ban at least one of his heroes that you seriously have to consider picking him up. The remaining Pos-4-player likes Yapzor, Cr1t, Saksa and Taiga are locked in...Handsken...okay...but this squad is not better than Nigma at their peak. Even at other areas...only fy and DJ are somewhat close to the level of GH. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
I'm not saying they wouldn't find teams, but they likely would be picked up by a EU tier 2 team at best. Maybe OG, maybe Alliance, maybe TL, but these aren't exactly upgrades to Nigma (unless you're sure that you'll survive in OG long enough to gun for TI, then OG might be worth a gamble if Ana wants even more money). These teams all currently have mediocre results and occasional breakout performances, which is pretty much where Nigma is at and I don't really see that changing. Maybe one of them would be picked up by an up and coming team like Vikin, would be interesting to see where this would go. But teams like these often fall apart if they change their equation. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
What was once a top team now has to fight for their life against Division 2 EU teams. | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
Because of that we get what we see at this tournament: Europe/CIS can be a hell of a close call of winning and losing! And after Nigma played this "mini-tiebreaker tournament" and only lost against the arguably best team of the last 8 months... there is too much "hate" here! As we know: Lowerbracket is for winners! | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
On December 07 2020 18:51 Geisterkarle wrote: As I said in the Epic tournament thread, most teams are not that "involved" lately. The energy of playing for a TI is missing. Because of that we get what we see at this tournament: Europe/CIS can be a hell of a close call of winning and losing! And after Nigma played this "mini-tiebreaker tournament" and only lost against the arguably best team of the last 8 months... there is too much "hate" here! As we know: Lowerbracket is for winners! They played even worse when there was energy for a TI, that's why these excuses are so ridiculous. It's also ridiculous that someone can be away from the team for 5 months and return bored. At the end of the day, the EU/CIS region being hard isn't an excuse when there's literally nothing can be done about it. When LAN events start happening again, Nigma will have to be at the top of the region in order to move forward as a team. No excuse in the world will buy them in a pity spot at any event. During the 2018-2019 season, they failed to qualify for the Major, they got 2nd place in a fucking Minor qualifier, and then quit the tournament before it even started. 2019-2020, they couldn't qualify for any Majors directly, and couldn't even qualify for the last Minor. Teams with the results Nigma had during the 2019-2020 season disband. I know they do well at TI but the reality doesn't change that any other team with these results outside of TI would not have the same roster for the next season. They had even better results during 2018-2019 and they still kicked Matu, so why isn't there any roster change now? Obviously because there isn't any actual issue with any individual players or skill level, they're simply lazy and complacent with their horrendous LAN results as a whole. The same excuses have been made for this team for years now. At least they eventually showed up in the previous seasons, this year they haven't. Before the pandemic, we couldn't even watch Nigma play because they didn't even qualify for the events they were supposed to. The months of silence we would've gotten from the team as we watched other teams play the tournaments that they couldn't qualify for on top of the months of silence where they took a break and barely communicated to their fans, it would've been a very non-existent year for them without a pandemic handing them auto invites to online tournaments based on their popularity. I simply don't want to hear the same excuses next season. This has been their "EU is hard so we can't qualify for events and we lack motivation" season. We can make all the excuses in the world for this team but once people have to actually qualify for events, none of these excuses will get them into a tournament. They actually have to play well consistently and be among the absolute best in the world. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
EU/CIS being hard puts their result into perspective. Nigma's results are comparable to the other big EU teams outside of Secret like TL, [A] and OG and on average better than the likes of Navi. And yes all these teams occasionally struggle in quals, but they would still be undoubtedly TI invites unless China secretly surpassed the European meta. Whom would you invite instead currently? And yes other players have argued that they feel burned out and bored by the constant online play, it's not limited to Nigma at all. It's probably one of the reasons why we see teams like Winstrike and the new VP on the rise, the old guard simply isn't as hungry anymore. Hell with the patch around the corner and online leagues coming it'd make a lot of sense to take a break now and then bootcamp 1-2 weeks before the patch hits. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
On December 09 2020 03:33 juuto wrote: If you think this team has a good chance at making it out of EU qualifiers, you have to be a next level optimist and that's the PMA way of saying it. I think this claim is hysterical and over the top. Yeah they could fall out of EU qualifier but if u look at it the only sure thing was Secret and this tournament they look as bad as Nigma. Don't know if you can put many teams ahead every single tournament to conclude the finished behind. For me this a just another emotional rampage of dissopointments more then analysis of Nigma or EU games in general. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
On December 09 2020 06:39 Sapaio wrote: I think this claim is hysterical and over the top. Yeah they could fall out of EU qualifier but if u look at it the only sure thing was Secret and this tournament they look as bad as Nigma. Don't know if you can put many teams ahead every single tournament to conclude the finished behind. For me this a just another emotional rampage of dissopointments more then analysis of Nigma or EU games in general. Sure, you might have a point, if we ignore the fact they actually couldn't make it out of EU qualifiers last season. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
Nobody doubts that they have consistency issues and occasionally terrible drafts. But nobody in their right minds doubts that on average they are a solid tier 2 contender and on a good day they can beat the best of the best. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
On December 11 2020 18:40 Archeon wrote: Except crashing in 1 out of the 4 last quals they played means indeed that they have "a good chance" at making it out of the qualifiers. And considering their other results most people considered the one time they failed to be the outlier and not the 3 times they made it. Nobody doubts that they have consistency issues and occasionally terrible drafts. But nobody in their right minds doubts that on average they are a solid tier 2 contender and on a good day they can beat the best of the best. They didn't crash out of one qualifier, they crashed out of all of them except for one. They crashed out of two Major qualifiers and a Minor qualifier. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
On December 13 2020 07:17 juuto wrote: They didn't crash out of one qualifier, they crashed out of all of them except for one. They crashed out of two Major qualifiers and a Minor qualifier. You seem to forget that they have won the Minor and qualified for the Major, I do not count same as crashing out...Archeon is right, they have failed to qualify for one Major/Minor circle and that´s it. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
There used to be a time where Nigma was one of the top teams in the world and now they've consistently struggled to even be one of the top teams in their region during the DPC season. Are they more of a team of influencers instead of professional players or something? They're not taking their competitive careers seriously at all. No roster who did as poorly as Nigma did during the last DPC season stays together just to get even more shitty results in the next DPC season. I still have faith in 4/5 of the roster but they just need to kick MC instead of keeping him around just because he used to be a much better in the past. Kuro struggles too much trying to hold onto his players even when it's clearly not working. Competitive teams shuffle their rosters when things don't go right for a long period of time, why exactly is he treating his teams like the exception? He's consistently bottom networth and every game there's excuses for him, Earthshaker might be one the most broken heroes at the moment and people still refuse to blame him for doing poorly. Keeping the same players for a long period of time breeds complacency and if Kuro can't extinguish complacency in all of his players, it's time to let the complacent players go. Nobody can look at the data coming from his latest games and honestly tell me that he's not doing a horrific job. I get there are problems elsewhere but honestly, every draft looks bad when you have a player that completely bombs out of any game where he faces any difficulty. Nigma should be a competitive team first, not just a familiar group of players who have been around a long time. | ||
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midou
Bulgaria1168 Posts
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Archeon
3253 Posts
Skill wise Matu is the better player imo, but Matu lost his mid lane a lot too and we always excused him for it. Honestly if w33 played a bit less suicidal he'd prolly be a top mid. | ||
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
Plus : They surely miss the real competition without online tournaments. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
On February 11 2021 06:28 Archeon wrote: ^I feel like Matu vs w33 is a swap of playertypes. Matu's mid was more comparable to a classic tanky offlaner than a classic mid, so I get why Kuro got w33, who is more of a classical mid roamer. It definitely gave him more strategic options, despite w33's very small hero pool. Skill wise Matu is the better player imo, but Matu lost his mid lane a lot too and we always excused him for it. Honestly if w33 played a bit less suicidal he'd prolly be a top mid. Matu was a complete disaster of a mid on Liquid around the time he was kicked. Before he was kicked, Matu was getting seriously flamed by everyone including fans, but the emotions from the kick made everyone become revisionists just like how people pretend Liquid wasn't by far the most dominant team coming into TI7. The TI7 "underdog" story where a team that won every single international LAN before going into TI somehow beats the odds and wins, and the mistreated Matu story are much more compelling stories than "The TI7 favorites won" and "Someone was kicked for playing bad". If they magically brought Matu back to the team now, they'd have to kick Miracle, not w33 to make room for him. I don't understand why people are comparing Matu, a carry player on Secret, to a sacrificial mid player. People are delusional as hell for still arguing about Matu and w33 as they play two different roles. Matu is a carry player while w33 plays position 2/3 depending on the game. | ||
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Comeon_19
India1 Post
w33 is not a top 5 mid currently and you don't win super tournaments without a top top mid. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
It is possible to replace W33 as there is more talent on Mid. Feel that SEA have a couple that is better then him in Mikoto and Yopaj. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
IF they are considering to replace W33 which I doubt, I think the first option may be Sumail. Miracle going mid may be the solution, but this move they could have done already two years ago instead of kicking Matu, so I doubt he has any interest in moving back to the mid lane permanently and even he may struggle against the top tier players considering his long absence from the mid lane and 1on1-matchups. I still think that they can solve most of their issues just by a better laning setup which is not set to fail and being behind 5k+ after ten minutes and having to play catch-up game overall. | ||
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midou
Bulgaria1168 Posts
On February 11 2021 18:46 juuto wrote: Matu was a complete disaster of a mid on Liquid around the time he was kicked. Before he was kicked, Matu was getting seriously flamed by everyone including fans, but the emotions from the kick made everyone become revisionists just like how people pretend Liquid wasn't by far the most dominant team coming into TI7. The TI7 "underdog" story where a team that won every single international LAN before going into TI somehow beats the odds and wins, and the mistreated Matu story are much more compelling stories than "The TI7 favorites won" and "Someone was kicked for playing bad". If they magically brought Matu back to the team now, they'd have to kick Miracle, not w33 to make room for him. I don't understand why people are comparing Matu, a carry player on Secret, to a sacrificial mid player. People are delusional as hell for still arguing about Matu and w33 as they play two different roles. Matu is a carry player while w33 plays position 2/3 depending on the game. I am not delusional, I understand very well who plays what however Matu 1 + Miracle 2 > Miracle 1 + w33 2. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
@Matu mid: Historically Liquid/Nigma played Matu mostly mid and Miracle mostly safe and even when they played Miracle mid they almost always put Miracle on a scaling core in a good matchup and Matu on a fighting core who is hard to lane against (Necro/Viper/Veno). So Matu never got farm priority like he does quite often in Secret, similarly to w33 his job was mostly to create space for the other two lanes. On February 12 2021 01:03 Rufus Dupres wrote: Khezu would come into my mind as well, but as you said there is not really an offlaner on the "market" which I would consider as an upgrade to MC. Given the schedule till TI, they cannot start experimenting with fresh blood and hope to make it work but just need to grind like hell and get back into form. IF they are considering to replace W33 which I doubt, I think the first option may be Sumail. Miracle going mid may be the solution, but this move they could have done already two years ago instead of kicking Matu, so I doubt he has any interest in moving back to the mid lane permanently and even he may struggle against the top tier players considering his long absence from the mid lane and 1on1-matchups. I still think that they can solve most of their issues just by a better laning setup which is not set to fail and being behind 5k+ after ten minutes and having to play catch-up game overall. Imo Miracle MC and Sumail would be way too greedy of a tri-core. Especially considering that Kuro likes to pick up some farm as well. You need a player that plays occasionally sacrificial because 1-2 of your cores will have bad lane matchups on average. Khezu could work, but while he's very high ranked and probably has the mechanical capabilities it's been years since he really participated in top level dota, so it'd be a big leap of faith. I wouldn't mind them trying out 33 tbh, that guy has a lot of potential. Not sure if he'd take that risk though considering the fact that Tundra looks surprisingly solid atm. | ||
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wims80
1892 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
In most games, the hero that's supposed to carry the game plays in the safelane. Heroes like Invoker used to be allowed to take up all the space in the world because he'd scale just as hard as a carry but now, Invoker's playstyle is completely different. Ana switched to playing mostly carry for the same reason Miracle did, their playstyle requires them to be top farm priority, and carry heroes are the only heroes that thrive from being top farm priority which means they'lll play in the safelane most of the time,. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
After the removal of comeback gold the standard has gone mostly back to ti3 space creator mids that are supposed to enable your other two lanes even if they loose. It's still possible to draft your midgame snowball fighting carry like Morph or Slark mid to accelerate their scaling if they get guaranteed a winning lane, but throwing them into a loosing matchup means your carry will have to play catchup all game while your space creators are too xp starved to make moves. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
You can say that Liquid (Nigma now) even changed to W33 they got 2nd in TI and finish above Secret and Matu. Maybe because W33 fitted that patch better, i don't feel this patch really suits him that well. Also we can discus if Matu would be better now, but he won't comeback and i don't see any carries that bring the skillset he delivers around that they can bring in. But hard to say if there are carries pos 1 that can play more the supporting role if they are not asked to do it on a team. | ||
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MintberryCrunchs
Germany462 Posts
If you want to understand Nigmas problem, look at Matus story. During his final time in Liquid(now Nigma), he was a shadow of his former self. Beeing forced into an uncomfortable role, having to play a very certain style and very certain picks for the "greater benefit of the team". He really looked like the weak link of the team. 1,5 years forward and he can comfortably look back on an incredible year, beeing the carry of the most succesful E-Sports team in 2020, beeing the Top contender in the strongest Dota region and most of all,beeing able to play the role and the heroes he wants. If you dont see a pattern here, i dont know what nees to happen. The funny thing is, W33, especially early on, nearly looked the same as Matu, even having to play the same vipers, death prophets and such. Thats the difference between Secret (and other Teams as well) and Nigma - in Secret, they try to draft to the strenghts of the players, Zai can play his crazy Offlanes, Yapzor his farmheavy 4 etc., while in Nigma, brilliant players like MC have to sacrifice themself because for some reason the Team or Kuro ( i really dont know) are stuck with a vision of Dota that doesnt really work since their victory at TI7. | ||
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midou
Bulgaria1168 Posts
I also commented months ago that they swapped Matu for W33 but aside from drafting WR a couple of times they still put him on the same heroes like Matu - viper, pugna, DP etc. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2522 Posts
I don't like Miracle's pos1. One of the recent games where he was Ursa, he looked uncomfortable most of the game, with late enrages or mistimed BKBs, as well as awkard map movements on a hero with early power spikes. I'm not anywhere near good enough for this opinion to have merit, but if I were Nigma's coach, I'd be pushing for getting Miracle to play Gyrocopter (or Luna or similar) in scrims, and ALWAYS BE FIGHTING ALWAYS. The temptation for Miracle to go "Oh, but what if I get battlefury and farm hard?" or other method of falling back on this burning-style evade and farm position 1 feels like a weak fallback, so getting Miracle to suffer through learning to play a tempo-based pos1 feels like it should be time well spent. I think W33's been playing fantastic, but like Miracle, keeps getting stuck in a familiar role and ends up feeling predictable. I'm fine with W33's play on Viper or DP or whatever, but I want the strategically threatening picks or flexibility in the draft that threaten things that W33 can actually play as a secondary carry, and not just play as space-creation for Miracle. Because of these two 'mismatches', it feels like the rest of the team is in an awkward position and it's really hard to assess their play from that. I know MC can play some scary farming pos3 (Beastmaster, Enigma) and also play more starved offlanes (Clockwork) but it never feels like MC is playing something that is part of an overall plan. I'd be interested in seeing a (??) carry, Miracle Mid, W33 pos3/4, and drop GH or MC for a decent pos1 player. I feel like W33's been forced into a role where he's making a lot of the map movement and rotation decisions, and could be made to do well in the pos3/4 role. Both GH and MC haven't been super impressive to me lately (Even though it breaks my heart to say that, as I adore GH) Iunno. I agree with the general sentiment that current Nigma is playing a style of dota that doesn't work at the moment. I want things to move; they've got talent and obviously aren't far from being a horrifying team again... they just feel a little devoid of a functioning gameplan. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
On February 16 2021 17:42 Fleetfeet wrote: Yeah, it's been frustrating seeing this consistent all-in on Miracle carrying, like an addict returning to their fix. From the outside, it's clear that it doesn't work and isn't good, but for some reason we keep ending back up in that same place. I don't like Miracle's pos1. One of the recent games where he was Ursa, he looked uncomfortable most of the game, with late enrages or mistimed BKBs, as well as awkard map movements on a hero with early power spikes. I'm not anywhere near good enough for this opinion to have merit, but if I were Nigma's coach, I'd be pushing for getting Miracle to play Gyrocopter (or Luna or similar) in scrims, and ALWAYS BE FIGHTING ALWAYS. The temptation for Miracle to go "Oh, but what if I get battlefury and farm hard?" or other method of falling back on this burning-style evade and farm position 1 feels like a weak fallback, so getting Miracle to suffer through learning to play a tempo-based pos1 feels like it should be time well spent. I think W33's been playing fantastic, but like Miracle, keeps getting stuck in a familiar role and ends up feeling predictable. I'm fine with W33's play on Viper or DP or whatever, but I want the strategically threatening picks or flexibility in the draft that threaten things that W33 can actually play as a secondary carry, and not just play as space-creation for Miracle. Because of these two 'mismatches', it feels like the rest of the team is in an awkward position and it's really hard to assess their play from that. I know MC can play some scary farming pos3 (Beastmaster, Enigma) and also play more starved offlanes (Clockwork) but it never feels like MC is playing something that is part of an overall plan. I'd be interested in seeing a (??) carry, Miracle Mid, W33 pos3/4, and drop GH or MC for a decent pos1 player. I feel like W33's been forced into a role where he's making a lot of the map movement and rotation decisions, and could be made to do well in the pos3/4 role. Both GH and MC haven't been super impressive to me lately (Even though it breaks my heart to say that, as I adore GH) Iunno. I agree with the general sentiment that current Nigma is playing a style of dota that doesn't work at the moment. I want things to move; they've got talent and obviously aren't far from being a horrifying team again... they just feel a little devoid of a functioning gameplan. There have been periods where I thought GH was completely mediocre but he's honestly the best player on the team right now imo. w33 is better off staying mid since he's a much more flexible player than Nigma's drafting suggests. I think Nigma needs is a space creating 3 like Zai so it could allow w33 to pick greedier heroes which he's already proven he's good at. Right now, without w33 on Batrider or any space creating hero, I think Nigma completely falls apart. MC is a giant blackhole in the Nigma lineup. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
 Nigma announcement RMN will be replacing him, wondering if he will be playing Pos 3 or if they make even further changes in their roles. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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midou
Bulgaria1168 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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midou
Bulgaria1168 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
On March 27 2021 17:57 juuto wrote: Sometimes it's hard to tell how much Nigma cares about their Dota careers. Why is Kuro and RMN playing offlane instead of a standin? yeah, kky and rmn both did some "crazy" decisions in the games... normally they "play" (rmn!?) pos5. That is the person, that stays in the back and supports (duh...). And then they are "thrown" into pos3 with heroes that want to be in the front of the team. You need quite a different mindset for that! It is quite short notice... so it is not easy to get a replacement. And also: Who? The only "spontaneous idea" I have is maybe Khezu... don't know if he would have been available... | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
[Edit]: And they posted about Kuro's all hero challenge on Twitter too. Fuck that shit. I set my expectations low for this team considering their circumstances, I feel like I'm not asking too much for them to take things seriously so the games are actually enjoyable to watch. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
One thing to note though is that the incentive structure in this major is pretty f'd. Especially for wild card. Need to make top 2 (3 with Na'Vi dropping out). Then need to make upper half of groups or you're facing elimination. If not, need to make it past that game THEN you're in the money. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
What region is this? | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
Secret is on a completely different level than them and they only got 4th place at the Major. Every other EU team also got trashed and they didn't have a standin. With the shape Nigma has been in for a long time, I don't see how they'd do well even with their full roster in an international competition. EU got away with being mediocre for so long because all of them collectively sucked. Now that other regions are coming into play, people can finally realize just how bad these teams are. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
w33 reminds me a lot of the great ol' Matu mid days. The hero pool just isn't good enough. I think w33's a fantastic player full of talent and his hero pool is actually quite large, it's just the heroes in those pool aren't versatile enough. If TA, WR, Meepo, and Visage aren't meta, w33 can't really do anything besides play those "green heroes" people think he's forced to play. He was even given the chance to play carry to see if he could be more versatile and enhance his hero pool but he wasn't good enough at that either. One meta shift and w33's hero pool of viable heroes is very limited in nature. He can't be the win condition or the semi carry like he used to anymore. The rest of the team still needs to improve on their play, Miracle needs to drastically improve as a carry, but he ended up looking like a very good space making mid on Void Spirit. Versatility is incredibly important in Dota these days which has been an issue for the players in matu/w33's spot. Matu on Secret is fine enough playing carry in the vast majority of his games but Miracle likes to switch between both so if the other player cannot allow him to do that, it's not a good fit for the team. w33 was a good offlaner when they wanted to switch lanes but as a safelane carry? He was pretty damn bad. I wish they could've stayed as 5 but competition is rough and w33 should've done a better job improving his versatility. Even when he's playing well, it just isn't good enough if his hero pool can be severely crippled by patches. Nigma had a long way to go before they became a top tier team again, a roster change was very much necessary. Now they have find a good replacement and improve their overall play. GH is the only one who looks like a consistent Tier 1 player. Top teams, which Nigma is not, don't have as many "bad days" as the Nigma players do. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
So...who will be the new mid player trying to reignite Nigma? Sumail? Mage? Any other free agent which I am missing or will we see a swap in roles and Miracle is going back to mid with a new promising carry player? Considering that the qualifiers are around the corner and MidOne was playing with a stack at open qualifiers in SEA, I doubt that he will be the one to join Nigma but who knows. If iceiceice is of the opinion that Nigma will be stronger than before, the stakes and expectations are pretty high but except of GH who performed nearly in every game on a top level and sometimes Miracle, all of them have to improve. At least I am seeing MC playing a lot of pubs, guess same is the best way to get back into shape. | ||
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
Let me hear your thoughts, who would be best in slot for the team? | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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its_a_me
Austria612 Posts
I mean most of the time their teamplay, drafting and mentality is a mess, but if the stars align, they can beat anyone. (TI 2019 2nd or the reverse sweep against Secret) And now looks like Kuros least valued player is the scapegoat again, this is the reason i stop rooting for them This is the second time someone gets fucked by Kuro (Matu got kicked after they qualify and w33 after the season starts) im so done with this guy. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5278 Posts
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
On April 10 2021 20:02 derElbe wrote: anyone checking every minute if there are some news? I didn't check every minute, but got lucky and it is just 10min ago: | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2522 Posts
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
On April 11 2021 04:17 Fleetfeet wrote: This seems like a mistake. W33 wasn't the reason we're losing and actually seemed to have some fire some of these days. Better to set one of the older, dispassioned players free imo. Older Kuro is 2 years Older and MC is 2 months older, the rest is younger, Not sure i understand this logic, unless u want Kuro to kick him self out of team | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2522 Posts
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
Is this a good thing? | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
On April 11 2021 22:13 derElbe wrote: I dont know much about iltw except his short time with OG. Is this a good thing? We'll have to see. w33's career wasn't exactly the best place when he got picked up by Nigma but they accomplished a good bit before his time was over. | ||
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
On April 12 2021 07:37 juuto wrote: We'll have to see. w33's career wasn't exactly the best place when he got picked up by Nigma but they accomplished a good bit before his time was over. woah that's harsh. Go W33, Go iLTW or igor i guess? i need to get used to this. iLTW's hero pool seems very similar to Miracles, is that true? | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
On a side note w33 got sacced a ton and played imo a decent Ember safe and voidspirit mid. Similarly to Matu they are kicking their space creator again. Imo they should have experimented with MC 1 Miracle 2 and w33 offlane. On April 09 2021 01:54 xM(Z wrote: i want to see w33 in OG; don't know why, for the 'what would happen if ...' probably. Imo Topson and w33 are the same playertype, hyperaggressive roaming mid and Topson looks to me mostly like an upgrade. While I hope that we'll see more of w33 I'd rather get him on a team like EG than OG. | ||
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
Go Nigma! I want to see them big carries! | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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xM(Z
Romania5278 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
On April 25 2021 14:28 xM(Z wrote: in that last game vs Alliance, Miracle lived the full w33 experience: get put on a subpar hero, get sacrificed/die for the carry, hate your life for the rest of the game. Every hero looks like a subpar hero when you're playing like shit. | ||
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
Now it's again time to get up and win some games. Go guys, you can do it! | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
No more excuses now, they have to win their series against Brame, Hellbear Smashers and Tundra before having (probably) a decider against OG. Any more losses will be devastating for their chances to qualify. EDIT: Nigma also announced a partnership with Etihad Airways, we are ManCity now. :D | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
OG-Nigma will probably be the "finals" ... again | ||
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
#Starsalign show us some fancy footwork and good moves! | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
I hope they continue to improve because game 1 was an inexcusable loss. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
Miracle has inherited the feast or famine mentality from w33 apparently. I also don't think storm is his hero or at least he needs more practice with it. That being said his Puck looked genuinely terrifying in the games he wasn't extremely countered in. Overall I'm fairly confident that he's going to iron out his problems, some things like laning stage losses or missing zips with storm are probably going to get better once he's more accustomed to the role. ILTW has had some solid performances, but also occasionally decides to walk up a ramp he shouldn't and dies. Not sure if that's because he's overestimating himself or because he is out of sync, but that is one thing to look out for. Overall they look really good if they can play an early push and really mediocre in mid-lategame fights imo. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
iLTW on Ember looks nice as well. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Beating their nemesis OG in such a convincing way should really give them a boost. Let´s cross fingers that they will make the last step as well and secure their invite to the Major...ideally to the group stage to avoid the expected bloodbath in the wildstage-round. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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lanners
8 Posts
Only way they will make something out of all this is for them to go beyond low. Maybe next year they can work into not having a rollercoaster consistency. Even OG/Secret/Alliance/Liquid don't look half as bad even when they get dismantled. Shame on Nigma | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
On May 19 2021 08:20 lanners wrote: Nigma once again proving they cant be a contender despite looking amazing on a good day. Bad days are just so damn bad. A team that has a better draft, better lanes, and manages to lose and lose again? I was cheering for them to fight for a TI champ, but after today I actually wish they had a chance of getting sent to lower division. Only way they will make something out of all this is for them to go beyond low. Maybe next year they can work into not having a rollercoaster consistency. Even OG/Secret/Alliance/Liquid don't look half as bad even when they get dismantled. Shame on Nigma I don't think Nigma feels shame honestly. They've performed badly for so long, they might even be numb to it. They've hit beyond low before last year when they failed to qualify for the last Minor/Major and they still stuck together as a team. How much more shameless could they possibly be? | ||
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lanners
8 Posts
On May 19 2021 08:28 juuto wrote: I don't think Nigma feels shame honestly. They've performed badly for so long, they might even be numb to it. They've hit beyond low before last year when they failed to qualify for the last Minor/Major and they still stuck together as a team. How much more shameless could they possibly be? I don't think they feel shame either. To me, that's an issue. They have days of glory and days so bad that I feel my half-a-K MMR could compete. The fact that they are not ashamed of the lows, that it feels that they take it as a "oh well, whatever" is the problem. They should see those lows and jump on them, learn from them. Not allow them to happen over and over again. What was it? Was it just bad calls? Maybe the draft? Or something that happened mid-game? I am tired to see the same issue happen 3 games in a row. And I felt the same when they played Brame. If they don't wake up they will be out of the Major. And honestly I hope they do. Give them a bit of extra time to prepare for open qualies. After all now it's pretty much the only way they are getting to TI. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Nigma looked much better this season that was actual the only series where they have been outplayed and outclassed in all three games of a series(although claiming a win in the second game). Iltw needs to work on his positioning tho, dying out of position as a Jugg at the same spot several times in game 1 is more than questionable. He redeemed himself in game 2 with his Ember-performance and the loss in game 3 was not his fault as well, giving Kuro the farm priority was not the right move, three more hits on the egg against a solar crested Jugg looks meh. Would have preferred that GH would have get his Aghs to have two bkb/spinning-piercing disables and more cogs to keep them away from the egg. Also MC dying on the bot lane without buyback was a really big mistake, he showed himself far too long on the lane and did not micro his treant properly to see if someone is coming for him. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
Overall I'd say Nigma lost the drafts in game 1 and 3 and won game 2. Miracle had a bad series, but also was drafted quite early with the exception of game 1. MC didn't have a good series either and didn't have that excuse. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
On May 21 2021 18:50 Rufus Dupres wrote: Nigma just posted a video on Insta with Kuro informing that he has arrived at Kiev, guess they will start bootcamping during the next days and at least it will hopefully minimize the risk of someone being infected with COVID-19 and not able to participate in the tournament. Ah that's cool, I hope Nigma make it far in this one | ||
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
On May 21 2021 18:50 Rufus Dupres wrote: Nigma just posted a video on Insta with Kuro informing that he has arrived at Kiev, guess they will start bootcamping during the next days and at least it will hopefully minimize the risk of someone being infected with COVID-19 and not able to participate in the tournament. I would love some more info about that and some updates about the bootcamp. Do they rent a place or how does this take place usually? | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Archeon
3253 Posts
Considering that they noticeably lacked lockdown vs three mobile heroes it was pretty close until eleven had that huge refresher reveal. If he didn't get that play nigma likely take a rax and possibly 2, but that play gave IG the lead and they had better late. Overall 1:1 against likely a top 4 team in this really stacked wildcard is imo decent, especially considering that they ´came close game 1 and crushed game 2. Miracle looks beasty btw. | ||
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Kznn
Brazil9072 Posts
Beyond godlike 3 games in a row :D | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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Kznn
Brazil9072 Posts
That was a sick run by Nigma. Super hyped dude | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Merany
France890 Posts
Glad they made it through in the end albeit in dramatic fashion. Hopefully this will give them momentum for the group stage | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
[Edit]: Okay. They lost to TNC. Kuro needs to fix his drafting. It's such an issue this tournament and I understand this is the group stage but they were/are so close to securing a comfortable spot for themselves. Yet they choose to do such wonky shit. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
Which is a shame, because GH looks like one of the best supports in the world and Miracle has been on fire. Hell Kuro himself had some amazing in-game performances and it's not like ILTW and MC aren't pulling their weight. That being said at times they are imo too 5-man heavy, they get outfarmed by pretty much every team I've seen them play against. One of the reasons they look great when they are ahead and can close out the map, but if the game drags their chances to win plummet. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
[Edit]: Kuro drafts can be so unbelievably bad man. Why is he doing this? | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
kuros drafts are stupid! no synergy! did nothing Nigma wins a map in 16min: *silence* *rolling bush* | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Kznn
Brazil9072 Posts
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Artisreal
Germany9234 Posts
fans are fans. being a fan has rather little to do with winning in my book. and let's be honest, mistakes happen but who of us is able to judge the thought process behind picks? I'd wager nigh nobody. | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
Seriously. Already before yesterdays matches started I thought, that Nigma is quite secure to get into the playoffs. And there it is a "new game"! So getting upset about a game they lost in groups is meaningless for me! | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
Like in the first EG match when the casters afterwards doubted that ILTW had practiced Mag I was reminded of "I can't play Omni"-"just play like ceb"-Kuro. Naturally that wasn't all that lead to the loss, Ice3 played an amazing lane which allowed cr1t to crush the early game and EG read Nigma like a book game 1 and countered all their rotations. I also thought that in both games EG won on wards. In the second Nigma had an amazing draft where they picked a 4 man roaming squad and a hero that could capitalize on the space they made to overcome the farm deficit that constant roaming created. They won the early rotations and as a result they had mapcontrol the entire time and ILTW reached the point where he could solo outcarry EG's tricore. Overall they look great more often than not and with how snowbally the patch still is it's easy to blame the drafts for the losses when a lot of times it just comes down to early game execution. But dismissing that Kuro always was a bit special when it comes to drafting and that Nigma often puts themselves into a position where they need to outplay to win like in their match 2 vs Secret in the playoffs serves nobody. Naturally juuto can't be pleased unless they crush every match, he still expects absolute dominance in a meta where no team achieves that. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Juuto seems indeed to post only after some hard losses, nothing from him to read after the stomp of VG. I am very critical towards them as well and being annoyed when they gave away games, but compared to earlier this year and most of last year, they are doing well and have their fate in their own hands. Considering the competetion they are up against, you cannot expect them to win it all. Depending on the result between VG and LGD, even a split may be enough to secure the upper bracket, but beastcoast will be playing for their lives and they have been able to upset Nigma in the past(dropping them out at Leipzig Major). | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
Losing itself isn't a huge problem especially in the group stages but the matches against EG could've eliminated EG from being able to reach Upper Bracket. At this point of the year, teams play for TI. Upper Bracket is massive in getting Nigma closer to the one tournament where the vast majority of the year's prize money goes to. A few acceptable losses are fine but at the point in the group stage Nigma was at, that wasn't the case. If they had 2-0'd EG, they'd have already secured Upper Bracket after VG's recent loss to PSG.LGD. I know Nigma's opponents are Beastcoast but I feel like any team who qualifies for a Major is capable of anything and that includes 2-0'ing Nigma. Both wins against EG just would've extremely nice and comforting. | ||
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MintberryCrunchs
Germany462 Posts
As we all know, it didnt work out in any shape or form (TI was sort of the exception and imo based on skill and pure strenght of will/stubborness alone) Now that they changed their identity and finally found a way to make this team work as a team, where everyone can play to their strenghts, i think their drafting has to be viewed from a whole different angle. It really is a totally different story if you fail to draft the same outdated concept over and over and over again as the old nigma did, or if you loose a draft while establishing a whole new concept and dynamic as a team. I have nothing but respect for this current version of Nigma and i couldnt be happier with their draft and playstyle. If they happen to miss a draft while maintaining this style of play they have shown during the major, i couldnt care less. In my opinion, they are outdoing themself by a huge margin and they are setting themselfs up to raise the bar even higher going into a possible TI 10. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
I hope things go well for them and they reach TI in a clean manner because no matter what, these EU qualifiers seem scary. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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Archeon
3253 Posts
On June 08 2021 16:47 Rufus Dupres wrote: Nice one...playoffs secured in a quite dominating way. Now against VP which are already qualified for TI and may not be playing with 100%, although I am sure they want to have a good showing at their "home tournament" and the disappointing showing at Singapore. Will be interesting to see as VP and Nigma are having a similar hero pool. Save is playing an extremely good Lion and Ench, gpk as Invoker, DM on Mars, AA on Kingslayer. I just hope they dont have a good brood player. Wouldn't bet on them not giving their all, if ppl decide to full-time play dota competitively and fly to Lan-events I'm fairly sure that on average they are in it to win it. EG didn't give TL a walkover yesterday either and VP if anything has more to prove. But they are both teams that are early game push heavy, so I'm expecting one team to pull ahead and stay ahead. That being said the battle for early dominance should be a good one. Overall the meta is very CIS actually, with Luna, BS, Ursa, Slardar, TA, Invo, Timber, Mars, Lion, Magnus, DK and Razor being among the highest wr heroes right now. Haven't watched a lot of VP so not sure if they plays all of these, but I wouldn't be surprised. | ||
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
On June 07 2021 04:15 Geisterkarle wrote: Nigma looses a Map: kuros drafts are stupid! no synergy! did nothing Nigma wins a map in 16min: *silence* *rolling bush* this | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Merany
France890 Posts
LGD will be tough but they have plenty of momentum so it should at least be a fun one to watch | ||
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wims80
1892 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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wims80
1892 Posts
On June 10 2021 22:41 hunter_x wrote: Hey guys how are you? Haven't really watched or played any Dota for over a year, and decided its time to maybe come back and support the boys. Have been playing a ton of Gwent the last few month, which i really enjoy right now. Did i miss anything, other then w33 aparently being kicked? W33 kicked, Miracle- back to mid. The boys are still really inconsistent, and their top level is still world class (or at least good enough to beat Europe, but Europe is kind of trailing behind China these days) | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
Miracle Invoker is a joy to watch again. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
When you play like this you dont deserve a TI spot anyway.... | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
Nigma kept w33 on their roster despite the fact they failed to qualify for both the last Major/Minor from the year before and they couldn't even beat Secret for pretty much an entire year. If you can't even be the best in your region, what good is your roster as a top team? The competition gets even tougher when you leave your region so if something is not working in your region, it's time to make changes. During the last DPC league, they had a new roster and they refused to bootcamp even though important Major slots and DPC points were on the line. Where is the professionalism on this team? Nigma is run like a fucking joke and their results are a fucking joke. The only team run as unprofessionally as Nigma is OG and that bar is so obscenely low that it just makes Nigma look worse. Kuro used to be much more hard working than this but after he won TI, he relaxed and now he's running one of the laziest teams in Dota. Does this guy seriously need to watch everything fall apart around him in order for him to figure out that he needs to get his shit together? He has a highly skilled team that's mostly been with him since 2016/2017 and instead of fighting to keep it, he does everything in his power to sabotage it. Dota isn't a family, it's not a circle of friendship, and it's not a fucking charity. If you fail to meet your obligations, expect to lose the things that you took for granted. Competition is cutthroat and if you want to live in some fantasy where your team is "family", you need to the results to keep that delusion alive for both yourself and the fans. Nigma is on the brink on total collapse and that all could've been prevented if this team took their careers seriously and didn't lose to fucking Alliance and Liquid. What results has this team achieved in the past two years? 3rd in their region? A year of getting dumpstered by Secret? Winning a fucking Minor? Look at Nigma's results lately and tell me how often top rosters stay together with these results. Even if they manage to qualify for TI, there is no positive way to spin that. They never should've been in the qualifiers in the first place. | ||
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MintberryCrunchs
Germany462 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
On June 13 2021 00:50 hunter_x wrote: I mean they played pretty bad to be honest, but come on juuto, your rant is way over the top....these guys still tried their best and you call them an embarrassment? You think they didnt want to win and compete at TI? Maybe they will never reach that TI 7 level again, if thats the case, you gotta accept that as well. Competition is tough and you cant always stay on top. dont forget old Liquid was one of the most consistent teams of all time.... They didn't bootcamp for the last league and they kept w33 on their roster even though they failed to qualify for events last season. They only try their best when it's too late. TI invites this year were not a tough competition at all. They were practically charity invites. | ||
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Muffloe
Sweden6061 Posts
On June 12 2021 20:28 juuto wrote: What an embarrassment of a team honestly. EU invites were a fucking charity and yet they still managed to fail to get an invite. Getting 3rd place with teams like Alliance and Liquid above you is a fucking joke. These are objectively bad teams with players who have barely accomplished anything in their entire careers and here are TI winners with their 3rd place placements while those other teams take the top spot. Bruh | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
I think the DPC-Points for league play are too high! If we want to find out which is the best team in the world, competing against the world should be worth more and so Majors would be more important! But that aside and searching for "answers", maybe all the games were finally too much Nigma and they got tired. (at least GH yawned against EG ). Their teamfights didn't seem to be on-par with their groupstage-level!On the other hand, because we talked about them playing fast and direct and they switched that up... after their win against VP I thought, that is good, because they showed another side! But maybe it was, that they were "afraid" that these drafts fail!? You need a good timing to win with those high-tempo drafts and if you miss them, you are done! | ||
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
Thumps up for a good run with a slighty disappointing ending. Good job still. Stars Aligned | ||
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
however, i'm very confident in them breezing through closed qualifiers. | ||
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jack_knife
Germany343 Posts
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SFDuality
United States1318 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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Archeon
3253 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Does anybody know if they are at a bootcamp? If they make it past Hellbear Smashers, OG/Vikin.GG are waiting in the 2nd round. Most likely it will be OG, so putting them into the lower bracket would be a great relief. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
Yeah, a little wonky. But they got the job done. But have to step up their game for the upcoming teams! | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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Archeon
3253 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
It's just hard to see this team doing well even if they qualify. EU is a weak region especially this season. If they're struggling now, TI will hit them like a bag of bricks if they even make it. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
Don't know what the thought process was or if I don't see it, but Spectre wasn't banned... | ||
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sacara
1 Post
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
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Archeon
3253 Posts
On July 09 2021 10:51 DucK- wrote: Not a big fan of iltw carry. Honestly I had zero expectations, but he's doing fine imo. He's sometimes doing some crucial mistakes, but it's getting less and he's also making a lot of good plays. It's not exactly easy to find a top tier carry and if ILTW stops going up enemy hills without vision I think he has the potential to be a top tier carry. I think his Luna is spectacular, but the rest of his hero pool looks much weaker. But Nigma also gravitates towards these push drafts anyways, so not sure if it's ILTW being worse on other heroes or just Luna fitting their playstyle well. I also think that they lost g3 90% because of vision, not having a ward in the rosh area proved a fatal mistake. On July 09 2021 17:58 Sapaio wrote: I am glad to see OG playing better, less overagression and more controlled. Great team fight coordination. Stil some wanky drafts. I mean OG always played their own meta, similarly to Nigma. At times it looks brilliant, at others very dumb, that's just how it is if you play off meta. It's always easy to ask after a loss why they didn't just get a meta pick instead, but usually there's method behind the madness. Then again OG is the cockiest team I know, so who knows. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
You can do it! | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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BlazingGlory
Bulgaria854 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
i dont think iltw and mc played well, but quite frankly a lot of teams dont have "tier 1" players and we all know just having "more skilled players" doesnt fix things. we've seen team kick matu and w33 and that just merely put a new coat of paint on the "old faithful". and this worked for ti9, because w33 actually was a pillar for ex-liquid and teams hadnt really figured them out i think nigma first needs a change in captains/coach. you can kick iltw and mc, but i dont think the terrible drafts will go away without kuro and/or rmn going away. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
The thing about drafts that people love to conveniently love to leave out of the criticisms is that the players themselves heavily influence the drafts. Not only do they have their own input but the drafting is always centered around the player's available hero pool. There are plenty of disadvantages or advantages that come your player's hero pool which is why it's wrong to act like roster changes don't play a part in draft issues. And a lot of times, drafts only look bad because the plays were bad. I honestly don't think Nigma would've qualified even if Kuro improved his drafts because two of his cores were not playing well. Kuro's failures as a captain come from his attachment to his players. There are so many times MC should've been kicked from the team yet he still managed to stay because they won TI once years ago. He should've been gone after TI9, after they failed to qualify for DPC events last season, and he should've been kicked after the first DPC league where he was bottom 3 networth for a good amount of their games. w33 also should've been kicked after they failed to qualify for DPC events last season and he 100% should've been kicked before the current DPC season started. The reality is that roster changes might not always work out but keeping the same roster forever doesn't always work out either. If MC and iltw look bad in the regional qualifiers of one of the weakest regions in Dota right now, how do you honestly expect Nigma to do well on LAN? Captains/drafters have always been the convenient scapegoat for Dota 2 fans. People, including Kuro, refuse to accept that roster changes are the solution in the vast majority of cases. Name me a single captain in Dota that hasn't had a period where they've faced failures that were resolved after a roster shuffle. The captains in Dota, especially the greats like Kuro, are highly intelligent individuals who will almost never drop off. We can rinse and repeat the "it's the drafter's fault" talk all we want but those criticisms are very rarely ever right. These captains and drafters always prove people wrong but those people who were wrong never learn from it. | ||
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
but i feel dead inside. TI seems so pointless now. Anyone with me?  | ||
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Nakama
Germany584 Posts
On July 15 2021 22:15 derElbe wrote: i didnt read any of the comments yet, but i feel dead inside. TI seems so pointless now. Anyone with me? i saw it coming and so i am not that much dissapointed. Now atleast i can watch TI and enjoy all the other teams without beeing too much emotionally involved. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
On July 15 2021 22:15 derElbe wrote: i didnt read any of the comments yet, but i feel dead inside. TI seems so pointless now. Anyone with me? Yeah dunno who to root for really. Alliance has a very bad record right now abroad and I don't really care for any of the other teams. Might end up rooting for LGD, they play some pretty Dota. Or go root for fy, although I'm not too optimistic for elephant, despite a super strong roster on paper they didn't really have a lot of success with it. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Wondering what roster changes we may see from Nigma... Iltw did not seem to be the answer, limited illusion-based hero pool, some very costly mistakes due to mispositioning. MC...I dont know more miss than hit during 2021...then again I do not see any significant upgrade on the offlane-position available. Maybe 33 but dont think he will be leaving Tundra for the moment. Boxi? Did not look very good as well during qualifiers. Miracle transitioned back into mid better than I expected, he crushed it most of the times during the qualifiers. This guy has to stay mid, his abilities to outplay opponents is way to valuable to not make use of it. Hitting creeps for 30min does not feel like to utilize his sheer talent to the utmost potential. GH perhaps the most consistent player on the team and the embodiment of PMA, he has to remain with the team as well. The drafting of Kuro/rmn did not look very good for a long time, having one viable strat only for the major and qualifiers. A change looks inevitable to get some fresh air into their drafting. | ||
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sskkraft222
2 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Interesting to see if same does mean that there will be two Dota-squads i.e. one for SEA and one for Europe or if Nigma will move to SEA-qualifiers to improve their chances for future tournaments. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
On September 20 2021 17:38 Rufus Dupres wrote: Merger between Nigma and Galaxy Racer Interesting to see if same does mean that there will be two Dota-squads i.e. one for SEA and one for Europe or if Nigma will move to SEA-qualifiers to improve their chances for future tournaments. Site is down unfortunately :/ Quite unexpected, probably there will be two teams? I don't see Nigma moving from their current area. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
I only know this picture: > https://twitter.com/NigmaGalaxy/status/1442564216221835266/photo/1 Well, let's see, what they do there! They said they want to help the MENA region to step more into the gaming world. Maybe this is part of this! Would love to see another tournament with their involvment there! | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34486 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
On October 20 2021 05:53 Firebolt145 wrote: May I suggest not following them any more? Then he doesnt have anything to criticize and cry about, seeing such a message although the new season hasnt even started is just disgusting. Must have been hard the past weeks when Nigma wasnt playing at TI and nothing to comment on about how bad/lazy whatsoever they are. Still wondering why he is a fan of Nigma, apparently only for the pain and fancy flare they have here in the forum. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
The funny thing about Nigma is that telling me to stop following them is a bit ridiculous because what am I following? The last time I posted in this thread up until recently was in July. During the season before the last, Nigma took a long time off to set up with their organization, and they qualified for a Minor afterwards and bombed out of the following Major. After that, they failed to qualify for the next Minor/Major altogether. More months of nothingness from Nigma. What was the reason that they got to start playing games again? A global pandemic and mass death. Then the previous season, Dota 2 moved to a incredibly slow schedule where teams played a series every week. Nigma were missing members at one Major and they did pretty good at the next. Then they failed to qualify to TI. Yet again, more months of nothingness from Nigma. There is literally nothing to follow. We all have our bad habits. Some people smoke, I watch Nigma's games. As long as I don't break any rules and I don't send harassment towards the players themselves, I actually do not plan on changing so I don't know why people constantly expect me to. Some professional teams actually play all season long including at TI, I'm sorry for expecting that from Nigma instead of making up excuses for them. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
Like there can be little doubt that this time it's SA<NA<SEA<<EU<CIS<=CN. Claiming that EU isn't competitive is just wrong. I think people are expecting you because the discussion pages are mostly fan clubs, so most of us aren't here to vent about them nonstop but because we're hoping to see them get back on track. Obviously we can't stop you and if it's your way of venting RL stuff or something that's perfectly fine, but since your comments are like 99% of the time negative it's hard to take them as objective criticism instead of random venting. Nigma always had a record of extreme instability with very high highs and a lot of lows, so your bar that they are supposed to be the clearly best team in the world seems just made to fail. | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
They now created an all-female LoL squad! Seems, they really are serious in improving the MENA scene! | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Reddit rumours are saying that they are trying out Gabbi and in case same does not work they will go on with Iltw. As I wrote in another thread would have loved a reunion with Matu, but apparently he is going to retire. Sadge. Guess we will see latest when rosters are locked in in abt. two to three weeks. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
On November 04 2021 16:57 Rufus Dupres wrote: Indeed very interesting so far with their expansions on multiple other games + the all-female squad for LoL. Reddit rumours are saying that they are trying out Gabbi and in case same does not work they will go on with Iltw. As I wrote in another thread would have loved a reunion with Matu, but apparently he is going to retire. Sadge. Guess we will see latest when rosters are locked in in abt. two to three weeks. Sad if true. However, if rumours are true and jerax is back to play, then anyone can return from retirement lol. matu is still one of the best. | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
In addition to those two teams, they got a Free Fire and a "Battle Ground Mobile India"(?) team. Now, if at least NGX.Sea would ply like that... | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Relegating one of the best playmakers in GH to play a goddamn weaver with the sole purpose of trying to save one of your usually out of position cores is just heartbreaking. Just like as if you put Cr1t on a WinterWyvern...that simply does not feel right. Nobody knows in which form Miracle will be returning, but if MC and Iltw keep on playing like this the amount of heavylifting he and the supporting squad have to do is beyond imagination. | ||
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goody153
44064 Posts
Nigma is in a dangerous place. They will get miracle on the 14th i believe but they need to like crush else they won't make it another major | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Game 2...okay...apparently they had to tell MC after that game that you can cancel a charge with Spirit Breaker. Oof, that was very hard to watch. Game 3 was definitely an improvement and Iltw showcasing that even if AM is out of Meta, he can make it work with the right setup. But yes, Alliance is for sure not a top contender right now. Let´s see how they will play against OG today...a must-win series for Nigma for possibly making it to the Major. OG did look good so far and I am really impressed how they are able to find farm for all their cores. | ||
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RufusDupres
13 Posts
That interview before the series from GH was way to telling, we are not having any expectations and we have lowered them down to zero. With such mindset, they will never achieve anything again. Are they not watching any other sports? Brady? LeBron James? Ronaldo? Djokovic? They stayed at the top because they were hungry for success even when they have won everything. Are they actually only playing to not lose their slot at Division I? | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
On December 15 2021 04:24 RufusDupres wrote: Well, after Saturday when they have lost against Secret 0:2, they can stop their bootcamp and enjoy their well deserved Christmas vacation. Even staying in Division I will be challenging. Holy shit what a bad showing...total disappoinment. MC is a liability and I have been defending him for such a long time, but with every further series, I feel like he is not getting in shape again. Iltw decision making is awful and when Miracle is not having a godlike day and outplaying everybody, they are not able to win any series at the moment. That interview before the series from GH was way to telling, we are not having any expectations and we have lowered them down to zero. With such mindset, they will never achieve anything again. Are they not watching any other sports? Brady? LeBron James? Ronaldo? Djokovic? They stayed at the top because they were hungry for success even when they have won everything. Are they actually only playing to not lose their slot at Division I? I also have 0 expectations from Nigma, best you can say is that they are trying to build their brand rather than focus on dota... Still best team in mena region | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
What I will say in the nicest ways I could possibly say, Nigma's main issue has been apparent for a very long time already. Hell, Kuro's issue has been apparent for a very long time. I'm talking years of the same issue repeated over and over since their TI7 victory. Kuro is someone who I would 100% describe as a... person who lacks courage. That's as nice as I could ever put it. Nigma's rosters are stable to a fault because Kuro will do anything in the world to avoid having to cut any player even including players like iltw who join post-TI7. MC should've been gone after TI9. w33 should've been gone when they first failed to qualify for a major and that was also a moment that MC should've been gone if he weren't gone after TI9. Again, MC should've also been removed from the roster after the first DPC league last season and his failure to turn up to the major. I know COVID is awful but MC was horrendous (consistently below the enemy supports in networth) during the first league anyways. Iltw and MC should've also been removed from the roster after their godawful performance in the TI qualifiers which they had to play because they were so awful before. Rosters far more successful than Nigma ever has been have shuffled yet here these guys are together to ruin the day of everyone who still roots for them, it's pathetic. Someone at Nigma needs to give Kuro a wake up call because apparently failing to qualify for TI wasn't enough for him. What I will say though is that Kuro personally has transformed a lot in the years that I followed him and not at all in the good ways. Just watching his interviews from way back and the interviews now, it's barely even the same person. I don't want to personally attack him because clearly, I am a huge fan, but this is his team and his organization. His team spiraling into this mess feels like a result of Kuro as a person spiraling downwards and dragging his team along with it. I don't feel like he's a bad in game captain nor do I think he's an awful drafter, there's no way anybody as successful as he was for that long just drops off skill wise. He's the best of the best when it comes to Dota itself but his decisions outside of the game are what has become his downfall. He's starting to feel a lot like PPD for me who was another captain that I believed would never drop off when it comes to the Dota aspect of the game but everything outside of the game was lacking so he became obsolete. Kuro needs to stop treating Nigma like a found family or something, he needs to make real friends outside of Dota, and he needs to keep things professional with Nigma's Dota roster. Clearly, Kuro is able to gain the loyalty of the rest of Nigma for people to stay with him for so long, but enough is enough. When it's time to refresh the roster, the roster should be refreshed instead of being stubbornly stable for no reason. No team in Dota stays together with Nigma's results, none of them. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
I mean at the Animajor they lost against the winner(LGD) in the upper bracket and the runner-up(EG) in the lower bracket and in the TI-qualifiers they lost two-times against OG who have been their cryptonie for such a long period. That they give it another try after TI10...fair enough. But now, it might be time again to cut off some old braids and revamp the whole team and start grinding games again to get a feeling for the Meta. There was a time when the old Liquid-squad had three of their player in the Top10, a fourth was within the Top50 + Kuro on 6k MMR.  | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
On December 15 2021 17:49 Rufus Dupres wrote: But now, it might be time again to cut off some old braids and revamp the whole team and start grinding games again to get a feeling for the Meta. There was a time when the old Liquid-squad had three of their player in the Top10, a fourth was within the Top50 + Kuro on 6k MMR. damn, sorry... posted to fast... ahm, yes. This maybe. I think because basically all players have a "history" of being incredible talented and skillfull. I added " " because they still are. Problem: The opponents catched up! Sometimes I feel they go into a fight with (I exaggerate) "It's difficult and dangerous but we are too good for them and get it!"and the edge is not there anymore; at least to take the "wrong" fights! | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
On December 15 2021 19:51 Geisterkarle wrote: I think because basically all players have a "history" of being incredible talented and skillfull. I added " " because they still are. Problem: The opponents catched up! Sometimes I feel they go into a fight with (I exaggerate) "It's difficult and dangerous but we are too good for them and get it!"and the edge is not there anymore; at least to take the "wrong" fights! True, but to keep up with the young guns and best of the best, you have to play pubs on a daily basis. Their apparent lack of scrimming/grinding pubs can be seen as you mentioned when taking fights which they should not. Instead of cutting their losses when a core is getting caught, they are still trying to fight and in most cases they are losing even more and very often they cannot recover from it. | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
On December 15 2021 17:49 Rufus Dupres wrote: He did not lack the courage to replace Matu with w33 after they qualified for TI9 and he did not hesitate to replace w33 as well when things went bad after the restart of the season. I can understand that you are trying to keep some stability for your roster and players, so that they can focus on their game and not have to think about being replaced at the first opportunity. When you are playing for such a long time together, you are not only ingame-friends but also outside of the game which makes it probably so hard to change things up. I mean at the Animajor they lost against the winner(LGD) in the upper bracket and the runner-up(EG) in the lower bracket and in the TI-qualifiers they lost two-times against OG who have been their cryptonie for such a long period. That they give it another try after TI10...fair enough. But now, it might be time again to cut off some old braids and revamp the whole team and start grinding games again to get a feeling for the Meta. There was a time when the old Liquid-squad had three of their player in the Top10, a fourth was within the Top50 + Kuro on 6k MMR. All those decisions actually came way too late. Matu as a mid wasn't working and mid at that time was completely centered around space creation so Miracle didn't want to play it. w33 kick took an entire year after they failed to qualify for the final minor/major before the pandemic hit. I understand it's hard to kick people that you've been playing with for a long time but it's better than dragging everyone down including your fans, and I don't understand where iltw comes into this because he hasn't been on the team that long and he's a bad player on top of that. They're professional teammates first before they're a group of long term friends, that's the reality of the situation. If things aren't working out on the competitive side of things, hard decisions should be made to keep the team competitive instead of Kuro doing everything in his power to protect his friendships. The Animajor was one decent result in a sea of horrible results that is Nigma's existence. Iltw and MC played horribly during the TI qualifiers and should've been kicked immediately afterwards, and Kuro should've taken advantage of the roster shuffles to refresh his team rather than keeping team mates were very clearly dragging the rest of the team down like his horrible decision making. Anyways, I wholeheartedly believe that the fear of being replaced at the first opportunity is actually good encouragement for players to take their careers seriously. Fuck roster stability. Literally every team is doing better than Nigma right now for a very good reason. | ||
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lasl
Romania21 Posts
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fundrops0123
1 Post
User was banned for this post. | ||
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
Just keep it rolling like this, you can do it! | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Questions is, will they take a possible tie-breaker seriously or just let it go? | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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type_Zero_00
21 Posts
KURO love you bro. but you should retire. Or at least PLAY SOME MORE PUB to polish your skill. you play like DOGSHIT. MC love you bro. but you should leave or change pos to pos 1. you play offlane but you take all farm from your pos 1, then blame that pos 1. miracle + GH. for the love of God. leave nigma and find better team. you 2 deserve better. ILTW i dont know about you the most. either you're bad or your team just doesnt support you DAMN... divison 2? REALLY?? | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34486 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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type_Zero_00
21 Posts
Now what? wanna blame fata now? | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
Kuro was simply being too cheap to pay a top player's salary so he pulled cheap player out of other's teams trash. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
Then again the only top team that played an acceptable season 2 in tier 1 EU was TL. Like no offense to GG but the only player who played in a relevant team before was Ace afaik. I still have no idea who plays in OG outside of Taiga. Entity is a pubstack. I don't think the group is strong enough to just blame going 0:6 on one person. And from the games I've seen Kuro makes a lot of critical mistakes and MC still struggles to do anything without a lot of farm. Miracle is still hit or miss and the only player with some consistency is still GH. They just don't look competitive. I also don't really see how Fata fits into the lineup, unless Kuro wants to take more of a backseat role. I think Fata has proven that his strengths lie more in supporting and team captaining and both roles are covered in NG. I don't think he's exceptional enough as a core to keep the ship afloat while his other two cores are farming. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
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housedesign
1 Post
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juuto
809 Posts
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ketostartacv
1 Post
User was banned for this post. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
There are also rumours that Crystallis from Entity may be joining Team Secret which means that Suma1l would leave the team most likely and may be available again on the market. Do not know though if Nigma would be having the same issues then like EG had with RTZ and Suma1l being both very farm heavy players. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
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Darrow
3 Posts
I am glad it finally happened! I just hope that this is enough to kickstart them, and hopefully I am wrong about bigger changes needed. Can imagine that DPC lower division is not what they are most excited about going forward, and that is not even their biggest challenge. Their biggest challenge will be to find in them the willpower to put in as many if not more hours as some of the best teams now have done before. Their most important tournament is going to be the regional TI qualifier. Godspeed boys! | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
Let's see if they can crush Div2! | ||
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
On June 07 2022 18:12 Geisterkarle wrote: Just an hour to the first game with Sumail! Let's see if they can crush Div2! Lets go! It's gonna be weird rooting for Sumail, but times change. gogo boys! - edit - sorry i thought beyondthesummit does WEU | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
go boys | ||
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
On June 08 2022 21:11 derElbe wrote: now since Liquiddota is closing where should i now follow nigma and discuss? The dota forum will become a subforum on tl, so there! | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
https://www.trackdota.com/matches/6609006882 | ||
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