EPTAs long as I don't have to see anymore Broodmother desperation picks, it's a welcomed change!
Team Liquid Discussion - Page 338
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juuto
809 Posts
As long as I don't have to see anymore Broodmother desperation picks, it's a welcomed change! | ||
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Julmust
Sweden4867 Posts
GOD I'M SO HAPPY I CAN FINALLY DISCUSS THIS. Imagine how hard it is to keep your mouth shut when you walk into the office and see w33's meepo converse in the hallway (I think a fan gave them to him a long time ago, they're awesome). I'll start off by saying I love Matu. He always had a smile on his face. Or that's not true, I've seen him almost in tears after being knocked out of tournaments. That guy cares so fucking much, you have no idea. He has a huge fire burning within him and if he joins a team and that team beats Liquid in the TI finals I will cheer for that team as much as I would if Liquid won. The problem is that Liquid really wants that 2nd TI. Kuro wants that 2nd win so badly. And with his current view of the players on his team, Matu didn't fit in. Matu is a great safelaner and I'm honestly impressed with how quickly he has been able to become good at playing mid. However, therein lies the problem. He's good at mid. Not great. Whenever he went up against players like MidOne, Sumail, or Noone he'd lose the lane. And I can't blame Matu for that. Those guys have years of experience on him when it comes to competitive midlaning. And I can't blame Kuro for moving Miracle- to the safelane. Miracle's midheroes were the flashy ones. Heroes like Invoker and TA. Heroes that have fallen out of style. So why not move him to the safelane and secure his farm? That's how you get the most out of your star player. Matu played the sacrificial role brilliantly (like Fear did when EG won TI) but in the current meta you can't really sacrifice your midlaner. You need them to shine. So it's unfortunate but this is the change Liquid needed to go from a potential top 4 team to a title contender. I just hope they have enough time to practise before TI. | ||
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noh2o
China71 Posts
On June 21 2019 05:53 Julmust wrote: And I can't blame Kuro for moving Miracle- to the safelane. Miracle's midheroes were the flashy ones. Heroes like Invoker and TA. Heroes that have fallen out of style. So why not move him to the safelane and secure his farm? That's how you get the most out of your star player. Matu played the sacrificial role brilliantly (like Fear did when EG won TI) but in the current meta you can't really sacrifice your midlaner. You need them to shine. So it's unfortunate but this is the change Liquid needed to go from a potential top 4 team to a title contender. I just hope they have enough time to practise before TI. matu is not a hard carry role since teamliquid founded in 2015 so,"it is a histroy problem"said by mc in the interview. that's why kky played 1 positon and matu play 5 positon in 2106 Boston major euro qual. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
On June 21 2019 07:24 noh2o wrote: matu is not a hard carry role since teamliquid founded in 2015 so,"it is a histroy problem"said by mc in the interview. that's why kky played 1 positon and matu play 5 positon in 2106 Boston major euro qual. He played the hard carry role till Miracle came in. Fata was always on the playmaking heroes during that time except for some games on Alch or Medusa. They switched Kuro on pos 1 only when they intended to play a Drow or Luna-lineup . Both Kuro and Matu said that he does not feel confident to play on these hero during that time, so they decided to move the roles, otherwise even during that qualifier Matu was always playing pos. 1. It will be interesting to see if sacrificing Matu will give Kuro the results he is hoping for. Apparently Miracle does not want to play against the likes of MidOne, Sumail and NoOne in the mid lane, otherwise he would have switched back to mid if they do not see that Matu is winning against them in an even matchup. Wondering if we will hear Matu´s point of view one day, I doubt it will happen as long as he is under contract and being paid by Liquid due to some condfidential clauses, but I am really curious about his opinion on this topic. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
Having said that, I do agree that something seems to have been missing between Matu and Miracle. It felt like they performed best when they could trade mid and safelane depending on the draft (like at ti7), rather than being confined to just one position. Assuming that Kuro's decision to move Miracle to the safelane permanently is correct, I think w33ha is a perfect fit, so it will be interesting to see how it plays out. | ||
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noh2o
China71 Posts
On June 21 2019 16:34 Rufus Dupres wrote: He played the hard carry role till Miracle came in. Fata was always on the playmaking heroes during that time except for some games on Alch or Medusa. They switched Kuro on pos 1 only when they intended to play a Drow or Luna-lineup . Both Kuro and Matu said that he does not feel confident to play on these hero during that time, so they decided to move the roles, otherwise even during that qualifier Matu was always playing pos. 1. It will be interesting to see if sacrificing Matu will give Kuro the results he is hoping for. Apparently Miracle does not want to play against the likes of MidOne, Sumail and NoOne in the mid lane, otherwise he would have switched back to mid if they do not see that Matu is winning against them in an even matchup. Wondering if we will hear Matu´s point of view one day, I doubt it will happen as long as he is under contract and being paid by Liquid due to some condfidential clauses, but I am really curious about his opinion on this topic. Look at Matu's hero in epicenter 2016 and manila major epcenter 2016 matu is not a hard core carry,he is a early game core | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
On June 21 2019 22:08 noh2o wrote: Look at Matu's hero in epicenter 2016 and manila major epcenter 2016 matu is not a hard core carry,he is a early game core Then look at his heroes at TI6: Morph, Naga, AM, before Epicenter Spectre and AM. It depends on whatever pace you are playing, even rtz is not always playing the ultralate-game carries but the likes of Ursa, Lycan, Lifestealer etc. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On June 21 2019 22:43 Rufus Dupres wrote: Then look at his heroes at TI6: Morph, Naga, AM, before Epicenter Spectre and AM. It depends on whatever pace you are playing, even rtz is not always playing the ultralate-game carries but the likes of Ursa, Lycan, Lifestealer etc. I think the point is not that Matu couldn't play hard carry, just that miracle has more impact with the same farm. Liquid has a history of carries that would top net worth charts but that struggled to convert that net worth into winning games; TC, Qojqva, Fata, Matumbaman. There's few players that know exactly when to stop farming and start throwing their weight around like Miracle does. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
On June 22 2019 04:03 Saechiis wrote: I think the point is not that Matu couldn't play hard carry, just that miracle has more impact with the same farm. Liquid has a history of carries that would top net worth charts but that struggled to convert that net worth into winning games; TC, Qojqva, Fata, Matumbaman. There's few players that know exactly when to stop farming and start throwing their weight around like Miracle does. Well, that is by far the best explanation I have heard so far and makes indeed sense. Did not really see it like this before... Matu seems to be with Chaos now, so looked like they traded w33ha for him. Misery, Khezu, Milan, Matu + 1 unknown midlaner, this may be a Ti-qualifying stack depending on how strong the competition will be during EU-qualifiers. Would love to see Limmp on that stack... Time to cheer for Liquid again, excited to see how they will perform today. | ||
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derElbe
Germany571 Posts
#letsgoliquid  I am beyond excited! | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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sCuMBaG
United Kingdom1144 Posts
We might be heading into a trial by fire with EG vs Liquid | ||
dravernor
Netherlands6175 Posts
Liquid? Lasse? Something else? | ||
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juuto
809 Posts
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Qualitaetsgarant
124 Posts
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RolleMcKnolle
Germany1054 Posts
On June 23 2019 01:13 Qualitaetsgarant wrote: No matter the outcome, the way they kicked Matu made Liquid lose their soul. This is exactly how I feel. This is the first time I am not rooting for a LiquidDota squad since the Inception of their Dota branch. I don't know why this hit me so hard, but I am really disheartened by the way they just disposed of him and took away the spots he qualified for with them. For me this was always the organisation and team that would NOT do stuff like this  | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On June 23 2019 01:13 Qualitaetsgarant wrote: No matter the outcome, the way they kicked Matu made Liquid lose their soul. +1 on that. Matu was the soul of Liqud. He didn't deserve that. Not after all those years - after TI - YES, not before. Will i sell my soul for second TI? No, but i am not in Kuro's shoes. I understand the decigion - it is not easy to wait another year to hit your dream just out of moral issues. BUT... We have to admit - it feels good to have 2 flashy players. Liquid looks very scary. And - w33 1 - 0 Sumail. Matu we Love you! You will be in our hearts FOREVER. The Matu T-Shirt is in our hall of fame. GL in Chaos EC | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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juuto
809 Posts
Seeing Liquid now compared to back then is like night and day. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
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