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On April 05 2018 21:33 nothingmuch wrote:
Well, he's not wrong about the inconsistency, but I never get people who go into the fan threads to post negative shit in general. How are you a fan if you're not supporting and just bitching?
To balance out all the people that blindly are going about "TI WINNER" "saving strats" and other shits like this.
They are a professional team, they play to win and what matters is the present, as we saw with teams like Alliance and Navi being tied to a successful past (remote or not) is not a good thing.
I really appreciated what Kuroky did say after the win at TI, and i don't think that there is any issue about satisfatction or complacency, they are hungry as always and there is sure no lack of motivation to be successful and win a major title.
The issue imho is all about drafting and strats, in some game you can see a bit of the old brilliance from Kuroky but it stay in the territory of "cheesing" (Miracle NP in a all push strats, Matu Brood, lane switching between Matu and MC, etc etc) and because that it backfires hard. The team now totally lacks the ability to pull out a "normal" draft with 2 scaling core that have a relatively good matchup in lane (like almost every other teams do) and this puts them in situation where they have to pull off some really good shit to put themself in an advantageous condition and, because their lack of a second powerful core, they are always at risk of a massive comeback from the enemy team.
Add to all of this those inexplicable drafts that Kuro pulled out in decisive games (Miracle with Void? Matu Visage? Void plus Underlord?) i cannot be optimistic and i choose to not be blinded by the "always in top 4" view of this situation.
I hope they will work on this issue and pull out some good and solid draft at Epicenter.
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All these talks revolve around the fact that Liquid fails somehow their plays or drafts and I do agree that there have been misplays and bad drafts, but let's not forget that many of our opponent teams are simply also really good. Liquid isn't the solotopteam but one of the good ones at the top.
I like games that are more then just stomping and the fact that games are not 'easy win' even before the game itself has started. So I am pretty ok with the situation at the moment (ofc liquid should win more majors but..)
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I think I already said it- people will just have to get used to the fact that there are ~10 top teams now. A ton of teams are really good and it's all about form. In Bucharest Minesky dropped in the group stage going 1-3, the only win being against Vega and a team like VGJ Thunder looked really good. And where are they now? Now a "top" team like Liquid is looking shaky, while a "top" team like Newbee seems to be getting dumpstered left and right. The only team that seemed to have a consistent winning formula so far is(was?) VP.
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Sad that we lost  , but happy to see Navi is final kicked out of the top 8 
A TNC vs Mineski final would be amazing.
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Yeah lol
Now TNC rolled VP
There are constant changes and patches and a bunch of bans
Valve does everything they can to make the scene as fluid as possible
And you have to remember that even during TI we had a strategic advantage due to drafts/strategies, that's why we won
Do you really blame Kuro for looking for more of these?
Underlord void combo he just straight up take from other teams that were outdrafting Liquid with it, havign it in their arsenal is a definite plus even though the guys aren't used to the heroes just yet.
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On April 06 2018 16:11 nothingmuch wrote:
I think I already said it- people will just have to get used to the fact that there are ~10 top teams now. A ton of teams are really good and it's all about form. In Bucharest Minesky dropped in the group stage going 1-3, the only win being against Vega and a team like VGJ Thunder looked really good. And where are they now? Now a "top" team like Liquid is looking shaky, while a "top" team like Newbee seems to be getting dumpstered left and right. The only team that seemed to have a consistent winning formula so far is(was?) VP.
Completely agree with this post.
I think at some point every fan of every team needs to accept there are plenty of top teams at the moment to save themselves unnecessary stress. Everyone is working hard to be the best and hey, they're actually pretty damn good just like Liquid. Of course I want Liquid to be the best but it's not humanly possible to be the best 24/7 for an entire year when there's balance patches every 2 weeks.
It sucks seeing Liquid lose but they just gotta work harder and comeback better next time. Teams going through ups and downs during the DPC is a reality that we have to accept.
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I agree with hunter. Bo1 Is not a way to decide who gets DPC points. Apart from that, we know there are a lot of good teams now, thats why dota becomes even better to watch.
But you can't decide who is better in Bo1 outside of Group stage and maybe round 1 loser bracket. At such a high level 1 lucky rune, can change a game, and we don't want to decide such an important games on luck.
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Lets Go Liquid
you have more information form mistake strat, you can win TI8, dont give up brother.
try to hard, I believe you All TLdota
time to win TI8 begins
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its been said countless times BO1 is hell and should be banned from dota.
TNC is out so rooting for Mineski to take this!
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VP vs TNC series proved our point again. If it was a Bo1 TNC would've looked the best team in the world beating both Liquid and VP. Yeah, they are good. But they are far from where Liquid and VP are.
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On April 06 2018 22:50 NInoff wrote:
VP vs TNC series proved our point again. If it was a Bo1 TNC would've looked the best team in the world beating both Liquid and VP. Yeah, they are good. But they are far from where Liquid and VP are.
Totally agree! I am pretty sure if it was a bo3 we would have won. I honestly think that as a team we are not that good when facing bo1, we can adapt and beat any team pretty much, but you cannot do that in a bo1.
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Vatican City State1573 Posts
On April 06 2018 22:50 NInoff wrote:
VP vs TNC series proved our point again. If it was a Bo1 TNC would've looked the best team in the world beating both Liquid and VP. Yeah, they are good. But they are far from where Liquid and VP are.
sometimes you need to win BO1, or BO2, or BO3 or BO5
if TNC vs Liquid is BO99, pretty sure Liquid win that series
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On April 06 2018 22:50 NInoff wrote:
VP vs TNC series proved our point again. If it was a Bo1 TNC would've looked the best team in the world beating both Liquid and VP. Yeah, they are good. But they are far from where Liquid and VP are.
What are you people smoking on. I know this is a fan-thread so it's reasonable to see fanboying but holy crap the bias here is incredible. How do any of you not see how competitive the current season is.
Liquid is no longer that stronger or another tier above everybody else who could contend the championship tbh . Even VP vs TNC really looked quite competitive and that's the strongest team of the current season. It wasn't a stomp
Right now there's like 5-10 teams how can win against anybody(including liquid) depending on who's on form and who's up the meta.
The scene right now has a bunch of championship contenders if any of you actually try to check the end results per tournament other than liquids result.
Liquid is not some special snowflake you all make out to be anymore(to be honest Secret is even more special than liquid since the start of the season). They can win like everybody else but they're no longer above everybody.
These kinda of posts reminds me of weird gatekeeping when EG(ppd roster) first came in and there was actually a good NA team or when navi was finally declining that navi could possibly be bad. Unable to comprehend that there are actually teams capable of beating previously dominant teams lol
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On April 07 2018 00:11 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2018 22:50 NInoff wrote:
VP vs TNC series proved our point again. If it was a Bo1 TNC would've looked the best team in the world beating both Liquid and VP. Yeah, they are good. But they are far from where Liquid and VP are.
What are you people smoking on. I know this is a fan-thread so it's reasonable to see fanboying but holy crap the bias here is incredible. How do any of you not see how competitive the current season is. Liquid is no longer that stronger or another tier above everybody else who could contend the championship tbh . Even VP vs TNC really looked quite competitive and that's the strongest team of the current season. It wasn't a stomp Right now there's like 5-10 teams how can win against anybody(including liquid) depending on who's on form and who's up the meta. The scene right now has a bunch of championship contenders if any of you actually try to check the end results per tournament other than liquids result. Liquid is not some special snowflake you all make out to be anymore(to be honest Secret is even more special than liquid since the start of the season). They can win like everybody else but they're no longer above everybody. These kinda of posts reminds me of weird gatekeeping when EG(ppd roster) first came in and there was actually a good NA team or when navi was finally declining that navi could possibly be bad. Unable to comprehend that there are actually teams capable of beating previously dominant teams lol
You are saying "you people" like everyone on this thread is blind to the level of competition in Dota this year when the last page was mostly people saying how many "top teams" there are this year. It's a fan thread, people are going to make some excuses when their team loses and say some crazy things once in a while but most the people on here seem to be looking at how well TL has performed after winning TI and thinking they will play their best when TI comes.
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That was a weird tournament to watch as liquid fan. Shaky groupstage start then some glimpses and the falling flat at the tiebreakers. Playoffs started then with 5 game win streak and got ended in losing 3 games in a row.
Feels like the game to game consistency isn't there now. Maybe it's drafts or the general concepts of how to play successful dota that they need to have a look at again. Individual skill doesn't seem to still be the issue but there are some key heroes like DP and DK that don't really feel like liquid heroes but are very prelevant in the meta.
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During the last few months, Dota is more like GSL code S, with a lot of competitive teams, meaning, you can't get away with bad draft/play anymore. and even if you draft and play correctly you still lose because the other is in much better form.
Also TL's drafts aren't the strongest, while they used to win with a slightly worst draft, it's no longer possible now because pretty much all the teams leveled up.
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Pretty obvious liquid was experimenting. Why are so many acting like it's the end if the world. They are so high up on dpc board that their invite is pretty much guaranteed. No harm trying out stuff. I'd be more worried if they're trying standard and failing like og. If they won dac using miracle NP, none if you would be bitching about the new strats. Geez.
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On April 07 2018 04:44 VvvV1251 wrote:
During the last few months, Dota is more like GSL code S, with a lot of competitive teams, meaning, you can't get away with bad draft/play anymore. and even if you draft and play correctly you still lose because the other is in much better form.
Also TL's drafts aren't the strongest, while they used to win with a slightly worst draft, it's no longer possible now because pretty much all the teams leveled up.
Exactly anybody can win nowadays and there's actually plenty of teams that are a match of liquid.
I actually see people here who discredit the teams who win against liquid and unable to accept that well liquid can actually lose. And that competition can get harder or it's possible for teams to actually match previously dominating teams lol
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On April 07 2018 13:06 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2018 04:44 VvvV1251 wrote:
During the last few months, Dota is more like GSL code S, with a lot of competitive teams, meaning, you can't get away with bad draft/play anymore. and even if you draft and play correctly you still lose because the other is in much better form.
Also TL's drafts aren't the strongest, while they used to win with a slightly worst draft, it's no longer possible now because pretty much all the teams leveled up. Exactly anybody can win nowadays and there's actually plenty of teams that are a match of liquid. I actually see people here who discredit the teams who win against liquid and unable to accept that well liquid can actually lose. And that competition can get harder or it's possible for teams to actually match previously dominating teams lol
Matter of perspective. To me, Liquid is at the bottom of their curve right now. They are under no pressure to perform whereas other teams are practicing hard and trying to earn a spot at TI. Frankly competition seems to be even because the top teams are already booked for and looking at TI.
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On April 07 2018 09:07 DucK- wrote:
Pretty obvious liquid was experimenting. Why are so many acting like it's the end if the world. They are so high up on dpc board that their invite is pretty much guaranteed. No harm trying out stuff. I'd be more worried if they're trying standard and failing like og. If they won dac using miracle NP, none if you would be bitching about the new strats. Geez.
I think in retrospect it was pretty obvious we were experimenting out of necessity, not because the old drafts were working.
In the end Kuro just gave up and copied other teams (and lost)
The team seemed pretty tilted in the last matches too because of that
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EPT
