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On October 21 2016 14:28 Laertes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2016 13:11 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 21 2016 12:56 Shaella wrote:On October 21 2016 12:27 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 21 2016 10:53 Shaella wrote:
Dude i'm pretty sure this team could win TI and people would still shit on Bulba. Pretty sure he wouldn't be shit on if people didn't keep mentioning Bulba and winning TI at the same time. People are happy to support mid tier players that achieve more than they're expected to. Not so much support for players who are hyped to the moon by peers and fall flat every single time. People are happy to support whoever its the flavor of the month to like, and happy to hate players who its flavor of the month to hate nothing more nothing less. Yeah, so winning TI would be good time to be flavour of the month. Look forward to that month then. If it was between you and a pro and I had to choose one for a secondary evaluation of Bulba, I'd probably choose the pro. no offense.
That's cool, I'm not waiting for a pro to validate my opinion either.
Waiting for Bulba to validate other pro's opinions, though.
(And the pros that evaluated Bulba didn't wait for him to validate them either)
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konadora
Singapore66163 Posts
hmm so apparently miracle drafted for their second game against alliance, and it become somewhat a 3 protect 2? miracle had a fantastic game with those defensive supports
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On October 21 2016 15:40 konadora wrote:
hmm so apparently miracle drafted for their second game against alliance, and it become somewhat a 3 protect 2? miracle had a fantastic game with those defensive supports
See the drafts changed with Bulba joining in, got a lot of new ideas in creative stuff, it must have been his input since we haven't seen Kuro draft that way before. Really exciting way to draft, and it was awesome for the team to discover what works and doesn't and find their limitations - I mean they had different draft almost every game with so much stuff thrown around, so many strategies.
But this is what I meant by them needing to find their style... Maybe they will just have to realise they aren't Wings and never will be as good as them, and just accept the whole team has to cut versatility to enable their two carries.
High MMR or not, Matumba and Miracle both lack the ability to adapt to different roles super fast like Wings 1+2 and co-exist and play around the rest of the team it seems, quicky adapting to any role between games. So the team probably realised they will have to play around them instead, always prioritise them on drafts, become predictable but solid in the process while keeping some of those ideas in the bag hopefully.
That's what I'd like to see and seems like they started to realise that. They just used the first week of playing together to try everything and see what sticks, and so many fans hilariously turned on them before they even started when all they played were not top tier tournaments just to try stuff out:D
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On October 21 2016 14:28 Laertes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2016 13:11 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 21 2016 12:56 Shaella wrote:On October 21 2016 12:27 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 21 2016 10:53 Shaella wrote:
Dude i'm pretty sure this team could win TI and people would still shit on Bulba. Pretty sure he wouldn't be shit on if people didn't keep mentioning Bulba and winning TI at the same time. People are happy to support mid tier players that achieve more than they're expected to. Not so much support for players who are hyped to the moon by peers and fall flat every single time. People are happy to support whoever its the flavor of the month to like, and happy to hate players who its flavor of the month to hate nothing more nothing less. Yeah, so winning TI would be good time to be flavour of the month. Look forward to that month then. If it was between you and a pro and I had to choose one for a secondary evaluation of Bulba, I'd probably choose the pro. no offense.
Laertes is speaking sense am i in a Parallel Universe?
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I just don get the hate on bulba/kuro/ MC. I think they are playing ok.
Matu and Miracle have real problems to enable each other. They are both taking lots of space and at the end both are underfarmed. Just because they are 9k does not mean they are better than the rest of the team.
And its just 1 week !
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lets blow up the team alr
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I believe Miracle already drafted for game 1 against alliance. I also have the feeling they are starting to adapt to the miracle/matu situation. In the slark and the naix game Matu stopped farming after 10-15/15-20 mins and started to look for pickoffs to give miracle space. Both times it worked well. So they might be finding ways to work aorund that issue.
The issues with Bulba not being Jerax and so Kuro having to be the shotcaller and playing the space-making 4 are persisting. But we will see how that develops. As long as they are able to beat Alliance convincingly I am fine for now.
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Me personally, I just love seeing liquid draft these mobile line ups.
They sometimes (quite often) overextend but that just seems to me that theyre having a lot of fun playing.
Getting to see mid rubick (with success!!), super mobile morphling games, amazing support rubick plays, Bulba wrecking face with oracle, and all in all very fun games to watch, makes me happy to be a liquid supporter for years to come.
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No games today for liquid, nice day to rest and start over, winning this time i hope.
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anybody knows when the invites will be announced ?
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
must be soon, since open qualifiers start in a couple of days. But I would not get my hopes too high for TL getting a direct invite
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on the other hand this thread is hotter than ever 
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Since Bulba plays the defensive support most of the time, what flashy plays do you guys want from him anyway?
I think their biggest problem right now is the total lack of synergy between Matumbaman and Miracle.
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On October 21 2016 22:42 Xurr wrote:
Since Bulba plays the defensive support most of the time, what flashy plays do you guys want from him anyway?
I think their biggest problem right now is the total lack of synergy between Matumbaman and Miracle.
Oracle and SD, the two heroes he played the most I believe, scale very well with skill. You can really tell the difference between players of different calibers, specially as those two have huge agressive potential early on and have long cast range later in the game to not die too much with proper positionning. The key to championship winning teams have always been good support duo and drafter, the rest is not that hard to find.
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On October 21 2016 22:55 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2016 22:42 Xurr wrote:
Since Bulba plays the defensive support most of the time, what flashy plays do you guys want from him anyway?
I think their biggest problem right now is the total lack of synergy between Matumbaman and Miracle. Oracle and SD, the two heroes he played the most I believe, scale very well with skill. You can really tell the difference between players of different calibers, specially as those two have huge agressive potential early on and have long cast range later in the game to not die too much with proper positionning. The key to championship winning teams have always been good support duo and drafter, the rest is not that hard to find.
Has it really? Puppey, PPD and Fly aren't really known for their plays, at all. They are/were the best Captains and Drafters.
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On October 21 2016 23:11 Xurr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2016 22:55 nojok wrote:On October 21 2016 22:42 Xurr wrote:
Since Bulba plays the defensive support most of the time, what flashy plays do you guys want from him anyway?
I think their biggest problem right now is the total lack of synergy between Matumbaman and Miracle. Oracle and SD, the two heroes he played the most I believe, scale very well with skill. You can really tell the difference between players of different calibers, specially as those two have huge agressive potential early on and have long cast range later in the game to not die too much with proper positionning. The key to championship winning teams have always been good support duo and drafter, the rest is not that hard to find. Has it really? Puppey, PPD and Fly aren't really known for their plays, at all. They are/were the best Captains and Drafters.
PPD has the biggest impact with brown boots support, trademark pos6, no other support do as much as him with as little. Puppey when he reached TI finals was the king of jungle. If fly did not get that much exposure he still had rock solid support performance during OG's best days on defensive support. Bulba is not even close but should be closer by TI, not on par though.
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On October 22 2016 00:07 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2016 23:11 Xurr wrote:On October 21 2016 22:55 nojok wrote:On October 21 2016 22:42 Xurr wrote:
Since Bulba plays the defensive support most of the time, what flashy plays do you guys want from him anyway?
I think their biggest problem right now is the total lack of synergy between Matumbaman and Miracle. Oracle and SD, the two heroes he played the most I believe, scale very well with skill. You can really tell the difference between players of different calibers, specially as those two have huge agressive potential early on and have long cast range later in the game to not die too much with proper positionning. The key to championship winning teams have always been good support duo and drafter, the rest is not that hard to find. Has it really? Puppey, PPD and Fly aren't really known for their plays, at all. They are/were the best Captains and Drafters. PPD has the biggest impact with brown boots support, trademark pos6, no other support do as much as him with as little. Puppey when he reached TI finals was the king of jungle. If fly did not get that much exposure he still had rock solid support performance during OG's best days on defensive support. Bulba is not even close but should be closer by TI, not on par though.
Pieliedie...
Puppey isnt known for his plays but we know he is lazy so he doesnt practise new heros(the ones he is good at like chen ET etc are actually really good) Fly is ok and i really hope bulba can reach atleast his level of play.
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On October 21 2016 18:54 RolleMcKnolle wrote:
I believe Miracle already drafted for game 1 against alliance. I also have the feeling they are starting to adapt to the miracle/matu situation. In the slark and the naix game Matu stopped farming after 10-15/15-20 mins and started to look for pickoffs to give miracle space. Both times it worked well. So they might be finding ways to work aorund that issue.
The issues with Bulba not being Jerax and so Kuro having to be the shotcaller and playing the space-making 4 are persisting. But we will see how that develops. As long as they are able to beat Alliance convincingly I am fine for now.
Matumba said in the interview that Miracle was the drafter, but not picking the heroes.
I do think some of their rockiness comes from Bulba/Kuro, but it's not that either one is playing poorly (I'm pretty happy with how both are playing mechanically). It's that neither of them seem to really have a strong suit in good early rotations and playing the map well. They're missing what Jerax really added to the team in the way that he always seemed to be in the right spot to capitalize or create opportunities. They seem like a team with 2 defensive supports (not in picks, but in playstyle).
There's other issues too, but I think the lack of that threat in lane is letting other teams gain early farm advantages that Liquid always seems to be struggling up against. You see them winning one lane somewhat hard quite often, but it always seems to come at the expense of another lane so they enter the mid game with 2 cores to their enemy's 3.
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konadora
Singapore66163 Posts
On October 21 2016 16:08 LemOn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2016 15:40 konadora wrote:
hmm so apparently miracle drafted for their second game against alliance, and it become somewhat a 3 protect 2? miracle had a fantastic game with those defensive supports See the drafts changed with Bulba joining in, got a lot of new ideas in creative stuff, it must have been his input since we haven't seen Kuro draft that way before. Really exciting way to draft, and it was awesome for the team to discover what works and doesn't and find their limitations - I mean they had different draft almost every game with so much stuff thrown around, so many strategies. But this is what I meant by them needing to find their style... Maybe they will just have to realise they aren't Wings and never will be as good as them, and just accept the whole team has to cut versatility to enable their two carries. High MMR or not, Matumba and Miracle both lack the ability to adapt to different roles super fast like Wings 1+2 and co-exist and play around the rest of the team it seems, quicky adapting to any role between games. So the team probably realised they will have to play around them instead, always prioritise them on drafts, become predictable but solid in the process while keeping some of those ideas in the bag hopefully. That's what I'd like to see and seems like they started to realise that. They just used the first week of playing together to try everything and see what sticks, and so many fans hilariously turned on them before they even started when all they played were not top tier tournaments just to try stuff out:D
yep.. that's why i also keep saying that because they're trying a different style then each of them are used to, it'll be normal to see liquid play around with different drafts and playstyles and lose a lot more than we'd like them too, but it's still alright as it's still before the boston major :p
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EPT
