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On October 20 2016 06:09 RolleMcKnolle wrote:
Why are they doing this to me? Well at leat they looked dominant the other 3 games of the day. This one they just had a wire burn after getting 2 lanes of rax... If they are able to have a good laugh in the team about this game I have high hopes for them in the future.
dominant the first 2?
I dont see this the same, they outclassed them by individual performances, as a team they played super bad. They went for good openers and always failed when they should retreat. Both games looked the same, and they played a tier 3 team. Its like they dont know when its enough.
The first NP game was awesome, also the second was executed quiet good. They failed taking the last rax and it was a clear strategical loss by calling too early pushes and dropping a lot of experience advantage.
They could slowplay it, it was greedy - I am sure this will not happen again - so I dont mind they lost. The last rosh call, I was 100% sure they drop the game against agha lasso - this call was so stupid...
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Btw, I lol'ed when Matumbaman started farming the stacked ancients and Miracle started pinging it like "my stack bruh". I'm pretty sure that they haven't figured out who the carry is yet.
All in all not a bad performance. If they get their teamwork together and limit the yolo to moments where it's necessary, they can go far.
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All in all, a better performance today. By no means a perfect or even a great showing but as long as there is improvement between showings I, for one, am satisfied. The last game against NP was particularly interesting; outcome of the game aside, a performance like that is very encouraging. In the first 20 minutes they knew what their draft excelled at and they executed it. If they can read the state of the game faster and transition their play sooner, a game like that should be easy to close out.
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Seems like we kind of all agree that when things happen its based on individual performance or because of opponent mistakes. Unfortunately the teamwork is not there, and the decision making is even worse. Like Anamorph said couple of posts ago they overextended every time in every game even when they won the fight 3:0 4:1 a core is lost when opponents start respawning. This happened in absolutely every game this season. I dont even want to comment the disaster that was game 2 vs NP.
So how come we came from absolute tactical brilliance last year ( even when we were CISed early game and were miles behind, we managed to win many games with the dodge-farm 15 mins - smoke 1 push - gg. And that requires a lot of teamwork and map awareness)) to this kind of pub like teamwork?
If we assume that Kuro is making the calls again this means that having to play #4 and having the map awareness needed for the good shot calling. Maybe jerax helped him? Maybe Bulba fails?
Don't really care what the reason is, the players know it, and they have to fix it as this can not continue - it hurts a lot when we all can see how way weaker teams get away with a win because of those major fails that should not even happen in a pro dota game.
It is clear that the team has one of the higher skill levels individually and they showed it several times in the past days, if we start working like a well oiled machine the results will follow.
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Nature of player differences is the issue, probably.
Liquid used to rely heavily on post-laning team fights to snowball off of. And winning those had a lot to do with Jerax being a broke playmaker, Kuro being greedy, Fata being a solid-rock mid with mid-game heroes.
Bulba just isn't Jerax, so when Kuro is greedy or when the supports need to make things happen, he can't contribute as much as the old team had. Makes the laning worse and the post-laning teamfights less reliable. And Miracle's good, but has been playing a lot more farm and late game oriented mids, which hurts worse when the early game goes poorly.
Not quite that clear-cut, but you can see some skewing of W/Ls by the mid hero pick (I think, assuming I'm attributing the right draft heroes to Miracle).
Basically last season's Liquid had a team and strat that was built to recover from poor lanes, this one has the poor lanes without the recovery.
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I'm going to call it right now, this team isn't going to work no matter how much time they're given.
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On October 20 2016 17:14 Talin wrote:
I'm going to call it right now, this team isn't going to work no matter how much time they're given.
That is the spirit! Lets GOOOO
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Yeah what do you know, Notail is naturally a better player to fit with Miracle than Matumba is. - he'd either run split pushers (Naga,tb) or playmakers, both of which either gave Miracle space to farm, shine in case of playmakers and free space in the jungle/control of map that allowed Miracle to make plays in case of split pushers.
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Hopefully Miracle can adapt without the whole team playing to enable him
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i think this team currently are good enough to beat tier 1 teams but not good enough to win tournaments
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Today is the day to tryhard this shit. Liquid vs. Secret and vs. Alliance. let's gooooooo! HYPE 
+ Show Spoiler +or at least play better, maybe?
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United States2197 Posts
On October 20 2016 21:07 Pontual wrote:Today is the day to tryhard this shit. Liquid vs. Secret and vs. Alliance. let's gooooooo! HYPE + Show Spoiler +or at least play better, maybe?
When are they playing against seacret?
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On October 20 2016 21:44 YourGoodFriend wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2016 21:07 Pontual wrote:Today is the day to tryhard this shit. Liquid vs. Secret and vs. Alliance. let's gooooooo! HYPE + Show Spoiler +or at least play better, maybe? When are they playing against seacret?
According to Gosu it's 3h 5min from now.
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Dotapit seems to be missing on liquiddota...
The second NP game was hard... and I don't understand why they tried to focus rax and not kill the damn-fight-winning tomb to get rid of those 30 zombies around them...
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Yep, JoinDota also confirms - Liquid vs Secret - 18:00 CET.
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On October 20 2016 19:43 LemOn wrote:
Yeah what do you know, Notail is naturally a better player to fit with Miracle than Matumba is. - he'd either run split pushers (Naga,tb) or playmakers, both of which either gave Miracle space to farm, shine in case of playmakers and free space in the jungle/control of map that allowed Miracle to make plays in case of split pushers.
Pfft, don't say that! We all know that Notail is the worst core in Dota. 
I really wouldn't be too worried about them not looking like the hottest team on earth right now because, quite frankly, no team is looking amazing right now.
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On October 21 2016 02:04 Laertes wrote:
Apparantly Secret is. Liquid is gonna go down in history as the team that lost to the scum of the earth.
Secret has very good players
And Puppey was really great on Pudge, pretty much won them the game
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On October 21 2016 02:00 Aldehyde wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2016 19:43 LemOn wrote:
Yeah what do you know, Notail is naturally a better player to fit with Miracle than Matumba is. - he'd either run split pushers (Naga,tb) or playmakers, both of which either gave Miracle space to farm, shine in case of playmakers and free space in the jungle/control of map that allowed Miracle to make plays in case of split pushers. Pfft, don't say that! We all know that Notail is the worst core in Dota. I really wouldn't be too worried about them not looking like the hottest team on earth right now because, quite frankly, no team is looking amazing right now.
EG, Secret, Newbee they look quiet impressive.
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EPT
