On August 16 2016 01:49 LemOn wrote: Oh is it that Douche again? I almost forgot about him :D
Although it does make sense that e.g. EG would try to poach him if e.g. Fear retires. And even replacing Suma1l would be an upgrade
I find more realistic that n0tail retires and they look for another carry to replace him, hopefully they will stick together. I don't even imagine what Miracle- could see in leaving OG... like which other team was more successful than OG the past year? OG is for me the most dominant and achieved team of 2016. Yeah, they lost TI, but if you accept the fact that anyone can beat anyone then losing TI is sadly a result that can happen and they just have to look forward to TI7 and a new year to dominate before it takes place.
On August 16 2016 01:03 LemOn wrote: What evidence?
No evidence, he just knows them because he owned them back in the day. You know, old times.
Fly and notail's Maelk interview after they dropped from the tournament and the timing of miracles contract expiration (very likely to have been a year from his original signing) meaning OG simply won't be able to match competing offers. Just because OG had a good season doesn't mean Miracle doesn't think he can't do better. If he can carry Notail to two majors he cano anywhere he wants.
Don't let me interrupt the circle jerk just because you guys don't pay attention though.
On August 16 2016 01:03 LemOn wrote: What evidence?
No evidence, he just knows them because he owned them back in the day. You know, old times.
Fly and notail's Maelk interview after they dropped from the tournament and the timing of miracles contract expiration (very likely to have been a year from his original signing) meaning OG simply won't be able to match competing offers. Just because OG had a good season doesn't mean Miracle doesn't think he can't do better. If he can carry Notail to two majors he cano anywhere he wants.
Don't let me interrupt the circle jerk just because you guys don't pay attention though.
"Carry" n0tail, yeah, always the same single minded opinion, where the other four get carried. I wonder where was Miracle- against MVP and TnC. I guess he carries only when they win otherwise they lose 'cause the other four anchors...
Matching competing offers means everything revolves around money, but it is a subjective matter, Miracle choosing between offers may have nothing to do with believing he can do better. He could choose to stay for less money believing he can do better with them. He could also think he can earn more and do better with another team. Positioning better at TI has the most impacting on their earnings so whether he chooses "a better team" or a "better salary" is kinda imprevisible in the end, just look at RTZ....
Edit:
Is this the interview you talk about or am I missing a chunk of it? If not I don't see how is that evidence, he says he doesn't know what the future holds for himself so what he says about the team is even less relevant. If this is not what you mean please link it.
You're right that nothing is foreseeable but you seem to still not understand the concept of expected value.
On average Miracle will get a team more wins than Notail, even if he has bad games some times. I think it's hard to argue that Miracle isn't a much better player with much higher value even after TI.
In addition, Miracle has to look to the future and think about if he expects to do better with OG or a potential EG/Secret lineup (the latter having a much, much better guaranteed salary). It's possible that he takes the former option as you say but it's much less plausible.
What's to understand about the video? Notail/fly won't leave OG, it's their team. Moon won't have better offers so it's Miracle and potentially Crit who are the unknowns. I'm not saying that's proof that one or both will leave 100% but that's still evidence that those two are looking at better options. It's certainly not evidence that points to them staying.
On August 16 2016 03:03 hariooo wrote: You're right that nothing is foreseeable but you seem to still not understand the concept of expected value.
On average Miracle will get a team more wins than Notail, even if he has bad games some times. I think it's hard to argue that Miracle isn't a much better player with much higher value even after TI.
In addition, Miracle has to look to the future and think about if he expects to do better with OG or a potential EG/Secret lineup (the latter having a much, much better guaranteed salary). It's possible that he takes the former option as you say but it's much less plausible.
What's to understand about the video? Notail/fly won't leave OG, it's their team. Moon won't have better offers so it's Miracle and potentially Crit who are the unknowns. I'm not saying that's proof that one or both will leave 100% but that's still evidence that those two are looking at better options. It's certainly not evidence that points to them staying.
I understand the concept of expected value, do not focus on that.
It is possible for any of those two to leave the team, but stating they are looking at better options is false and confuses readers. I don't think anyone here doubts they (or just Miracle) could leave the team, I suppose some here (myself included) find confusing that you write your thoughts as if they said it.
Things cleared out, I wouldn't read too much into it. Yes Miracle can leave, in my opinion there is no other team where he could fit better but I may be wrong. If he chooses a better salary over a better team means he has no confidence on winning TI7. If he chooses a better team then we can leave the salary argument aside.
You weren't "confused by my wording". You and the other guy weren't aware of the video and decided to make a joke out of it.
And it's really not nearly as binary as you're presenting it. 6 figure salary vs. the pittance OG pays in comparison is going to be a significant factor in Miracle's choice. Suggesting that taking a better contract at Secret/EG over the historic performance of OG as a team does not in any way mean he wouldn't also have high hopes for the new team. I don't know what world you live in where only one team is allowed to have the potential to win TI.
Oh right, it's the world in which Miracle will stay with OG because of their great season overall (which by itself is completely arguable) but you simultaneously think Notail will retire OG right after his most successful year ever. That's nonsense.
On August 16 2016 03:43 hariooo wrote: You weren't "confused by my wording". You and the other guy weren't aware of the video and decided to make a joke out of it.
And it's really not nearly as binary as you're presenting it. 6 figure salary vs. the pittance OG pays in comparison is going to be a significant factor in Miracle's choice. Suggesting that taking a better contract at Secret/EG over the historic performance of OG as a team does not in any way mean he wouldn't also have high hopes for the new team. I don't know what world you live in where only one team is allowed to have the potential to win TI.
Oh right, it's the world in which Miracle will stay with OG because of their great season overall (which by itself is completely arguable) but you simultaneously think Notail will retire OG right after his most successful year ever. That's nonsense.
Haha you sure know a lot about me! See you next time dude!
Edit: I wasn't aware of the video that didn't say what you said? Sure I wasn't, good thing it didn't say what you said, otherwise I would be confused :S
On August 16 2016 03:43 hariooo wrote: You weren't "confused by my wording". You and the other guy weren't aware of the video and decided to make a joke out of it.
And it's really not nearly as binary as you're presenting it. 6 figure salary vs. the pittance OG pays in comparison is going to be a significant factor in Miracle's choice. Suggesting that taking a better contract at Secret/EG over the historic performance of OG as a team does not in any way mean he wouldn't also have high hopes for the new team. I don't know what world you live in where only one team is allowed to have the potential to win TI.
Oh right, it's the world in which Miracle will stay with OG because of their great season overall (which by itself is completely arguable) but you simultaneously think Notail will retire OG right after his most successful year ever. That's nonsense.
Haha you sure know a lot about me! See you next time dude!
On August 16 2016 01:49 LemOn wrote: Oh is it that Douche again? I almost forgot about him :D
Although it does make sense that e.g. EG would try to poach him if e.g. Fear retires. And even replacing Suma1l would be an upgrade
I find more realistic that n0tail retires and they look for another carry to replace him, hopefully they will stick together. I don't even imagine what Miracle- could see in leaving OG... like which other team was more successful than OG the past year? OG is for me the most dominant and achieved team of 2016. Yeah, they lost TI, but if you accept the fact that anyone can beat anyone then losing TI is sadly a result that can happen and they just have to look forward to TI7 and a new year to dominate before it takes place.
It's what you said. So you can try explaining why Miracle would stay while Notail retires from the same team.
On August 16 2016 03:43 hariooo wrote: You weren't "confused by my wording". You and the other guy weren't aware of the video and decided to make a joke out of it.
And it's really not nearly as binary as you're presenting it. 6 figure salary vs. the pittance OG pays in comparison is going to be a significant factor in Miracle's choice. Suggesting that taking a better contract at Secret/EG over the historic performance of OG as a team does not in any way mean he wouldn't also have high hopes for the new team. I don't know what world you live in where only one team is allowed to have the potential to win TI.
Oh right, it's the world in which Miracle will stay with OG because of their great season overall (which by itself is completely arguable) but you simultaneously think Notail will retire OG right after his most successful year ever. That's nonsense.
Haha you sure know a lot about me! See you next time dude!
On August 16 2016 01:49 LemOn wrote: Oh is it that Douche again? I almost forgot about him :D
Although it does make sense that e.g. EG would try to poach him if e.g. Fear retires. And even replacing Suma1l would be an upgrade
I find more realistic that n0tail retires and they look for another carry to replace him, hopefully they will stick together. I don't even imagine what Miracle- could see in leaving OG... like which other team was more successful than OG the past year? OG is for me the most dominant and achieved team of 2016. Yeah, they lost TI, but if you accept the fact that anyone can beat anyone then losing TI is sadly a result that can happen and they just have to look forward to TI7 and a new year to dominate before it takes place.
It's what you said. So you can try explaining why Miracle would stay while Notail retires from the same team.
Nahh, sorry but I tried going further down this road with you back then and ended up wasting my time. You can try avoiding this situation all you want, but either me or any other here will keep taking you down to this because this is what you look for. Enjoy the ride while it lasts and let go.
On August 16 2016 03:43 hariooo wrote: You weren't "confused by my wording". You and the other guy weren't aware of the video and decided to make a joke out of it.
And it's really not nearly as binary as you're presenting it. 6 figure salary vs. the pittance OG pays in comparison is going to be a significant factor in Miracle's choice. Suggesting that taking a better contract at Secret/EG over the historic performance of OG as a team does not in any way mean he wouldn't also have high hopes for the new team. I don't know what world you live in where only one team is allowed to have the potential to win TI.
Oh right, it's the world in which Miracle will stay with OG because of their great season overall (which by itself is completely arguable) but you simultaneously think Notail will retire OG right after his most successful year ever. That's nonsense.
Haha you sure know a lot about me! See you next time dude!
On August 16 2016 02:15 Racket wrote:
On August 16 2016 01:49 LemOn wrote: Oh is it that Douche again? I almost forgot about him :D
Although it does make sense that e.g. EG would try to poach him if e.g. Fear retires. And even replacing Suma1l would be an upgrade
I find more realistic that n0tail retires and they look for another carry to replace him, hopefully they will stick together. I don't even imagine what Miracle- could see in leaving OG... like which other team was more successful than OG the past year? OG is for me the most dominant and achieved team of 2016. Yeah, they lost TI, but if you accept the fact that anyone can beat anyone then losing TI is sadly a result that can happen and they just have to look forward to TI7 and a new year to dominate before it takes place.
It's what you said. So you can try explaining why Miracle would stay while Notail retires from the same team.
Nahh, sorry but I tried going further down this road with you back then and ended up wasting my time. You can try avoiding this situation all you want, but either me or any other here will keep taking you down to this because this is what you look for. Enjoy the ride while it lasts and let go.
It looks like I asked you a really simple question about why you think Miracle would stay but Notail would leave the same team and you can't answer so you decided to make it personal (i.e. "avoiding").
Notail and fly will definitely stick together. I think there's a good chance that the team doesn't split, though I also wouldn't be surprised if cr1t or miracle leaves for something fresh.
On August 16 2016 18:16 DucK- wrote: Notail and fly will definitely stick together. I think there's a good chance that the team doesn't split, though I also wouldn't be surprised if cr1t or miracle leaves for something fresh.
On August 16 2016 03:03 hariooo wrote: You're right that nothing is foreseeable but you seem to still not understand the concept of expected value.
On average Miracle will get a team more wins than Notail
That is a highly questionable assumption.
On average the likelihood that Notail on OG with one different player will perform better than Miracle with four different teammates and a different captain is actually quite good.
Miracle has never played on a team outside of OG. It's impossible to say how much of his performance will carry over to a different team, and thus it is impossible to rationally formulate a player's individual value outside the context of his current team.
On August 16 2016 03:03 hariooo wrote: You're right that nothing is foreseeable but you seem to still not understand the concept of expected value.
On average Miracle will get a team more wins than Notail
That is a highly questionable assumption.
On average the likelihood that Notail on OG with one different player will perform better than Miracle with four different teammates and a different captain is actually quite good.
Miracle has never played on a team outside of OG. It's impossible to say how much of his performance will carry over to a different team, and thus it is impossible to rationally formulate a player's individual value outside the context of his current team.
What are you talking about? Didn't anyone ever tell you making an uninformed opinion with big words only makes it look worse?
Remind me of notail's performance on Fnatic and Cloud9 by the way.
In any case saying miracle is a better player than Notail is one of the least controversial opinions of all time.
On August 17 2016 02:21 hariooo wrote: In any case saying miracle is a better player than Notail is one of the least controversial opinions of all time.
EPT
