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On August 18 2016 05:29 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2016 05:14 hariooo wrote:On August 18 2016 04:34 Racket wrote:
I just took it to PMs guys so you don't have to suffer any more of this.
Hope your team sticks together, so far no twitter accounts show any sign of the opposite. Did you just act like you took the high ground by taking it to PM's and immediately direct another statement towards me in the very next line? Do you hear how ridiculous you sound? You got it wrong. With "team" I meant OG, not Secret. We are in the OG thread and the "your" in my post refers to the "guys" from the previous sentence, to the OG fans in here.
In which case there is plenty of chatter about OG player movement on Twitter. I hope Miracle gets paid what he's worth.
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Moon kicked from OG and miracle- and cr1t have left the team
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On August 18 2016 05:50 hariooo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2016 05:29 Racket wrote:On August 18 2016 05:14 hariooo wrote:On August 18 2016 04:34 Racket wrote:
I just took it to PMs guys so you don't have to suffer any more of this.
Hope your team sticks together, so far no twitter accounts show any sign of the opposite. Did you just act like you took the high ground by taking it to PM's and immediately direct another statement towards me in the very next line? Do you hear how ridiculous you sound? You got it wrong. With "team" I meant OG, not Secret. We are in the OG thread and the "your" in my post refers to the "guys" from the previous sentence, to the OG fans in here. In which case there is plenty of chatter about OG player movement on Twitter. I hope Miracle gets paid what he's worth.
I don't get all this worship of players. I mean I support Misery and Resolution, but I do this because I like their attitude, not because I think they're some kind of god in playing dota. Miracle is a good mid player, but I don't see him being particularly better than any of the other good mid players like Sumail, W33 or even Arteezy (whom I dislike personally) and some of the Asian ones that I won't be able to name (MidOne? and whoever is on Wings, probably).
I hope he "gets paid what he's worth" too. Meaning: the same as every other player on the team that he joins.
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On August 24 2016 14:20 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2016 05:50 hariooo wrote:On August 18 2016 05:29 Racket wrote:On August 18 2016 05:14 hariooo wrote:On August 18 2016 04:34 Racket wrote:
I just took it to PMs guys so you don't have to suffer any more of this.
Hope your team sticks together, so far no twitter accounts show any sign of the opposite. Did you just act like you took the high ground by taking it to PM's and immediately direct another statement towards me in the very next line? Do you hear how ridiculous you sound? You got it wrong. With "team" I meant OG, not Secret. We are in the OG thread and the "your" in my post refers to the "guys" from the previous sentence, to the OG fans in here. In which case there is plenty of chatter about OG player movement on Twitter. I hope Miracle gets paid what he's worth. I don't get all this worship of players. I mean I support Misery and Resolution, but I do this because I like their attitude, not because I think they're some kind of god in playing dota. Miracle is a good mid player, but I don't see him being particularly better than any of the other good mid players like Sumail, W33 or even Arteezy (whom I dislike personally) and some of the Asian ones that I won't be able to name (MidOne? and whoever is on Wings, probably). I hope he "gets paid what he's worth" too. Meaning: the same as every other player on the team that he joins.
You're free to believe he's not the best player but if you really believe all players on a team should be paid the exact same amount that's just not realistic in any sport, e or otherwise.
And boom goes the dynamite I think most of us saw this coming. There is no long-term plan for a volatile scene like esports. You evolve or you die. Miracle and cr1t decided not to stagnate their careers. There is no anime Naruto friendship arc.
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On August 24 2016 14:07 Thetwinmasters wrote:
Moon kicked from OG and miracle- and cr1t have left the team
Not really important but it would be good to know the sequence. Maybe Cr1t and Miracle- left and they decided to kick Moon too to start from zero again or they might have kicked Moon, and Cr1t and Miracle- found the decision to leave a lot easier.
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On August 24 2016 15:22 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2016 14:07 Thetwinmasters wrote:
Moon kicked from OG and miracle- and cr1t have left the team Not really important but it would be good to know the sequence. Maybe Cr1t and Miracle- left and they decided to kick Moon too to start from zero again or they might have kicked Moon, and Cr1t and Miracle- found the decision to leave a lot easier.
From what Moon said on his stream, he pretty much came to know the day after their TI loss that he was kicked. He was told that he was NOT kicked for "performance reasons", so there definitely is some internal friction there.
Miracle and cr1t probably left on their own accord for greener pastures. No offense to n0tail, but he is a pretty average carry - nowhere close to his extremely high level support play, so I suspect he will move back to position 4 support. Fly has shown himself to be a good captain though, so they will have to rebuild around him.
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On August 24 2016 15:50 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2016 15:22 Racket wrote:On August 24 2016 14:07 Thetwinmasters wrote:
Moon kicked from OG and miracle- and cr1t have left the team Not really important but it would be good to know the sequence. Maybe Cr1t and Miracle- left and they decided to kick Moon too to start from zero again or they might have kicked Moon, and Cr1t and Miracle- found the decision to leave a lot easier. From what Moon said on his stream, he pretty much came to know the day after their TI loss that he was kicked. He was told that he was NOT kicked for "performance reasons", so there definitely is some internal friction there. Miracle and cr1t probably left on their own accord for greener pastures. No offense to n0tail, but he is a pretty average carry - nowhere close to his extremely high level support play, so I suspect he will move back to position 4 support. Fly has shown himself to be a good captain though, so they will have to rebuild around him.
Well, if it is as you said we already know the sequence. Good to know.
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Well when the "friendship" core is no longer a thing (Moon) then I guess you might as well go where the big(?) salaries are (EG.Cr1t, Liquid.Miracle).
On the topic of player worship, pro players and OG members themselves have stated that Cr1t was actually the "best" player on their team. While Miracle is a superb player, the hype around him (which mostly came from the fairly meaningless mmr grind and associated youtube vids) was never in any proportion to the "weight" he carried on the team, while particularly Notail got unwarranted hate from the clueless masses.
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On August 25 2016 00:32 nothingmuch wrote:
Well when the "friendship" core is no longer a thing (Moon) then I guess you might as well go where the big(?) salaries are (EG.Cr1t, Liquid.Miracle).
On the topic of player worship, pro players and OG members themselves have stated that Cr1t was actually the "best" player on their team. While Miracle is a superb player, the hype around him (which mostly came from the fairly meaningless mmr grind and associated youtube vids) was never in any proportion to the "weight" he carried on the team, while particularly Notail got unwarranted hate from the clueless masses.
N0tail got hate? Just wait until new OG begins to play, if they not succeed... the hate you talk about will be nothing in comparison.
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On August 25 2016 00:32 nothingmuch wrote:
Well when the "friendship" core is no longer a thing (Moon) then I guess you might as well go where the big(?) salaries are (EG.Cr1t, Liquid.Miracle).
On the topic of player worship, pro players and OG members themselves have stated that Cr1t was actually the "best" player on their team. While Miracle is a superb player, the hype around him (which mostly came from the fairly meaningless mmr grind and associated youtube vids) was never in any proportion to the "weight" he carried on the team, while particularly Notail got unwarranted hate from the clueless masses.
Well yeah Notail was great and under appreciated.
It's hard to deny Miracle's super fan pleasing flashy plays all over the place, his play on low health is just so clutch people will always see him as a god, and Notail carry as... someone okay
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On August 25 2016 01:12 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2016 00:32 nothingmuch wrote:
Well when the "friendship" core is no longer a thing (Moon) then I guess you might as well go where the big(?) salaries are (EG.Cr1t, Liquid.Miracle).
On the topic of player worship, pro players and OG members themselves have stated that Cr1t was actually the "best" player on their team. While Miracle is a superb player, the hype around him (which mostly came from the fairly meaningless mmr grind and associated youtube vids) was never in any proportion to the "weight" he carried on the team, while particularly Notail got unwarranted hate from the clueless masses. N0tail got hate? Just wait until new OG begins to play, if they not succeed... the hate you talk about will be nothing in comparison.
That's all speculation. We don't know if/who/how OG will be playing. Could just as easily disband or be Notail on a different position etc.
I'm just saying it's hard to count how many times Cr1ts roams, Flys drafts or Notails sacrifices made Miracle look so great and all the Notail haters/Miracle hypers are pretty fucking clueless (and that's not even going into the topic of communicative/social skills that players have to have to make a team work and that the fans are completely oblivious to).
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Is a team with Notail or Miracle all else held equal more likely to be successful? Hmm hard one guys. If you really believe that Notail is as good as Miracle than all that needs to happen for that belief to be validated is if the new OG (Fly+Notail) gets top players. Obviously both Notail and Miracle should attract a similar level of tier 1 talent willing to play with them right?
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No idea what you're smoking mate. 1. no one said Notail and Miracle are equal and 2. there are a million variables determining who with and how well the rest of OG can continue to play so success/failure certainly won't give any insight on your (fairly silly) thesis.
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You're the one creating some false narrative about people being notail haters. Saying Miracle is a much better player than Notail is perfectly reasonable.
Meanwhile there can be a million variables but I'm talking about expectation, not post-hoc results (ie more top pros want to play with miracle than notail based on expected results). So based on your interpretation it sounds like you don't even understand the point I'm making.
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On August 25 2016 04:08 hariooo wrote:
You're the one creating some false narrative about people being notail haters. Saying Miracle is a much better player than Notail is perfectly reasonable.
Meanwhile there can be a million variables but I'm talking about expectation, not post-hoc results (ie more top pros want to play with miracle than notail based on expected results). So based on your interpretation it sounds like you don't even understand the point I'm making.
There's no point you're making, you're just looking for a fight. I can't be arsed to go through the same stupid back and forth that so many others have with you in this thread. If we're talking about "understanding points" made, then show me one instance where I, or anyone else for that matter, have compared Notail and Miracle. You're the only one looking for a comparison between Notail and Miracle. And I don't need to create any narrative whatsoever. Notail getting blamed/flamed overly has been talked about by casters on several occasions in the past year. If you haven't caught that, and don't understand that saying Miracle gets too much hype and Notail too much flame isn't saying Notail is better than Miracle then I can't help you. /ignored
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People are clearly talking about Notail/Miracle performance on OG on this last page so I don't know where you're coming from.
Even if we play by your own logic and I'm the only one who compared Miracle to Notail (saying M > N), you're the one who decided to post that "all notail haters/miracle hypers are pretty fucking clueless". But if I respond to that provocative comment, I'm the one looking for a fight?
Man I didn't even call you out specifically at all (you're the one who immediately asked me what I'm smoking) but you're going to pretend like I'm the one being aggressive. That's really typical
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On August 25 2016 01:32 nothingmuch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2016 01:12 Racket wrote:On August 25 2016 00:32 nothingmuch wrote:
Well when the "friendship" core is no longer a thing (Moon) then I guess you might as well go where the big(?) salaries are (EG.Cr1t, Liquid.Miracle).
On the topic of player worship, pro players and OG members themselves have stated that Cr1t was actually the "best" player on their team. While Miracle is a superb player, the hype around him (which mostly came from the fairly meaningless mmr grind and associated youtube vids) was never in any proportion to the "weight" he carried on the team, while particularly Notail got unwarranted hate from the clueless masses. N0tail got hate? Just wait until new OG begins to play, if they not succeed... the hate you talk about will be nothing in comparison. That's all speculation. We don't know if/who/how OG will be playing. Could just as easily disband or be Notail on a different position etc. I'm just saying it's hard to count how many times Cr1ts roams, Flys drafts or Notails sacrifices made Miracle look so great and all the Notail haters/Miracle hypers are pretty fucking clueless (and that's not even going into the topic of communicative/social skills that players have to have to make a team work and that the fans are completely oblivious to).
Of course it is speculation... I specifically said "if they not succeed..."
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On August 25 2016 05:24 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2016 01:32 nothingmuch wrote:On August 25 2016 01:12 Racket wrote:On August 25 2016 00:32 nothingmuch wrote:
Well when the "friendship" core is no longer a thing (Moon) then I guess you might as well go where the big(?) salaries are (EG.Cr1t, Liquid.Miracle).
On the topic of player worship, pro players and OG members themselves have stated that Cr1t was actually the "best" player on their team. While Miracle is a superb player, the hype around him (which mostly came from the fairly meaningless mmr grind and associated youtube vids) was never in any proportion to the "weight" he carried on the team, while particularly Notail got unwarranted hate from the clueless masses. N0tail got hate? Just wait until new OG begins to play, if they not succeed... the hate you talk about will be nothing in comparison. That's all speculation. We don't know if/who/how OG will be playing. Could just as easily disband or be Notail on a different position etc. I'm just saying it's hard to count how many times Cr1ts roams, Flys drafts or Notails sacrifices made Miracle look so great and all the Notail haters/Miracle hypers are pretty fucking clueless (and that's not even going into the topic of communicative/social skills that players have to have to make a team work and that the fans are completely oblivious to). Of course it is speculation... I specifically said "if they not succeed..."
I think we agree, I'm just saying the the changes might be so drastic that even the haters have a hard time pinning failure on Notail.
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EPT
