|
On June 10 2016 04:33 spudde123 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2016 04:32 matiK23 wrote:On June 10 2016 04:19 ddayzy wrote:
I don't even see how any of this is drama worthy. Universe left with Arteezy for reasons unknown. The project goes down the toilet and the entire team play terribly. He want's back to his old team where he had success. His old team strugles with their new line up. His old team accepts him back.
Where exactly is the problem?
The only story I can find in all of this is that Secret gets a taste of their own medicine and learned that it tastes like shit. It's obviously big news since it involves two prolific teams. My beef with Universe is that he quit during the honeymoon phase without letting the team grow organically. This is something people would expect from rtz and the team hopping meme. Not Universe. It was 2.5 months, and I would not exactly call it "honeymoon"
Is that how dota time works? 2.5 months + 2 tournaments is basically eternity? If that's the logic, can't call rtz a team hopper since his return with EG was also basically forever.
|
On June 10 2016 04:38 matiK23 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2016 04:33 spudde123 wrote:On June 10 2016 04:32 matiK23 wrote:On June 10 2016 04:19 ddayzy wrote:
I don't even see how any of this is drama worthy. Universe left with Arteezy for reasons unknown. The project goes down the toilet and the entire team play terribly. He want's back to his old team where he had success. His old team strugles with their new line up. His old team accepts him back.
Where exactly is the problem?
The only story I can find in all of this is that Secret gets a taste of their own medicine and learned that it tastes like shit. It's obviously big news since it involves two prolific teams. My beef with Universe is that he quit during the honeymoon phase without letting the team grow organically. This is something people would expect from rtz and the team hopping meme. Not Universe. It was 2.5 months, and I would not exactly call it "honeymoon" Is that how dota time works? 2.5 months + 2 tournaments is basically eternity? If that's the logic, can't call rtz a team hopper since his return with EG was also basically forever.
No, but it was 2.5 months with 3 tournaments where the team won in total one boX series and placed dead last in two of them. They also bootcamped twice during that time I believe. Can you name a team that has had even a remotely similar start and has become good in the past? Sometimes a team just doesn't work, and 2.5 months can be enough time to see that.
|
Nice i'm sure we won the shuffle after all we have team secret bulba the best player in the world.
|
I think a lot of the drama/high horses are if Zai does indeed sub into EG and Aui gets the boot again. That's what people are really waiting for with bated breath.
|
On June 10 2016 04:32 matiK23 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2016 04:19 ddayzy wrote:
I don't even see how any of this is drama worthy. Universe left with Arteezy for reasons unknown. The project goes down the toilet and the entire team play terribly. He want's back to his old team where he had success. His old team strugles with their new line up. His old team accepts him back.
Where exactly is the problem?
The only story I can find in all of this is that Secret gets a taste of their own medicine and learned that it tastes like shit. It's obviously big news since it involves two prolific teams. My beef with Universe is that he quit during the honeymoon phase without letting the team grow organically. This is something people would expect from rtz and the team hopping meme. Not Universe.
"Honeymoon phase"? Lol, the equivilent in marriage terms would be to find out your spouce had cheated on you with multiple people at the wedding, was a escaped mental patient and was planning on killing you for the life insurance - a total clusterfuck.
I don't understand your metnality at all, he didn't owe Secret anything. They poached him with promises of success and they didn't deliver so why should he wait? With EE and Arteezy in the team I can't imagin the mood being particularly good in the team either.
|
On June 10 2016 04:49 TheTenthDoc wrote:
I think a lot of the drama/high horses are if Zai does indeed sub into EG and Aui gets the boot again. That's what people are really waiting for with bated breath.
He has not exactly covered himself in glory since his return. I don't think there is any way you can logically justify keeping Aui as a carry. Hes obviously a good player - he has proven it as a support but he has not proved it as a carry. To be fair the entire team has been fairly bad, I actually thought Bulba was one of the better, but even with everyone perfoorming badly he has been the one who stood out, at least to me.
It sucks if it happens, but Secret, and Arteezy, put EG in a position where they had to sign a carry player fast and Aui had worked with them in the past. It has not been a change for the better so if they want to improve getting someone else for Aui would be a logical step in that direction. Not sure why it would be drama worthy either to be honest. Best option for EG in a bad situation in my opinion.
|
On June 10 2016 04:49 Shaella wrote:
Nice i'm sure we won the shuffle after all we have team secret bulba the best player in the world.
I don't feel like the team would need the best player in the world, rather a descend player who could gel the other egos together (and make huge impact plays from time-to-time) As far as I know, Bulba is really a thing on the offlane and his Earthshaker is magnificent.
|
On June 10 2016 04:12 Piledriver wrote:Wait, now I have to cheer for Bulba? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Show nested quote +You are standing by them because you are their fan and you suffer the possible loss of a direct invite but you didn't do the same when they purposely took away w33 and Misery's direct invite.
Direct Invite is very different from Invite to qualifiers. Making a roster change after the lock even precludes you from getting invited to qualifiers. Pretty sure Secret was not expecting an invite to the main event after that performance. However it was reasonable to expect an invite to qualifiers had they not made any roster changes. Going through the BO1 marathon of open qualifiers is an entirely different beast when compared to going through qualifier invites. All it takes is an unlucky game lost to a Dazzle + Huskar cheese.
Many people believed Secret's direct invite was sure given they won a Major, even after this last performance only a few fans doubted it and some argued.
- w33 and Misery got kicked before lock = lost direct invite status given they couldn't join any team with such status
- Universe left during lock period = whole Secret lost direct invite status and they have to go through open quals
Of course DC may get an invite to quals and Secret could get cheesed out in open quals, but when you play your cards like that you can also lose, if you choose to play that way you gotta live with the results of your decisions.
Every side chose the best for themselves, can't blame anyone if everyone did the same thing.
Universe did nothing forbidden, all according to Valve rules.
|
Well Valve people like Bruno are present at Manila, it's even possible that Secret and EG asked what the invite situation is, i.e. are they autoinviting major winners despite the roster change after Shanghai. Of course they haven't decided the invites as a whole yet, but they may have decided those sorts of general guidelines.
|
On June 10 2016 04:49 Shaella wrote:
Nice i'm sure we won the shuffle after all we have team secret bulba the best player in the world.
Wait...did you just change your flair to Secret because of Bulba? ROFL
|
On June 10 2016 03:56 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2016 03:46 hariooo wrote:On June 10 2016 03:19 Racket wrote:On June 10 2016 02:54 hariooo wrote:On June 10 2016 02:39 Racket wrote:On June 10 2016 02:32 hariooo wrote:On June 10 2016 02:18 Racket wrote:On June 10 2016 01:12 hariooo wrote:On June 10 2016 00:31 Racket wrote:On June 10 2016 00:13 hariooo wrote:
PR speak is because normal companies have obligations to stakeholders like sponsors, not because they're inherently more noble. Just be happy for the fact that TS has the freedom to say what's really on their mind. Just like they did with w33 and Misery, RIGHT? Given that I'm talking about *how* TS says things, I'm not sure what you think w33 and misery have to do with this. It's fine to object to that particular shuffle but try and direct your outrage in a way that makes any sort of sense. On June 10 2016 00:41 emperorchampion wrote:
Except there are stakeholders other than sponsors that also have an interest in teams conducting themselves in a certain manner, like fans of the team and any other person with an interest in competitive dota, tournament organizers, other teams, etc. Especially in ESPORTS, where teams are small and change often. What is left to cheer for if all the players leave, you're not winning, and all you're left with is a history of shenanigans? It's fine to say "fuck the haters we do our own thing" if you're winning, but idk about otherwise. Fans have interests in a lot of things. If this is the deal breaker go cheer on some nondescript Chinese team with organized press releases. I'm fine where I am. Tournament organizers care about attendance and views. Drama supports both. As for Universe he was literally the worst player on the team and left his team in an awful situation. I expect him to go on unscathed because the community generally loves his public ally conflict free demeanor though. We are talking about how TS announced the departing of Universe, and you say they speak with freedom so I bring the w33/Misery affair where they kicked them and they saved their freedom just because they would look bad otherwise. You can be their fan but you have to be a bit less subjective, if they make Universe look like the bad guy they should do that to themselves when it is their turn. It makes sense if you don't brush a comment away because you don't wanna deal with it. I honestly don't understand what the hell you're trying to say. Just because TS has the ability to speak freely, they should be obligated to talk shit about *themselves*? What kind of insane logic are you trying to apply? Yeah, you are that kind of guy. Really no point arguing with you. I'm that guy trying to parse near nonsensical terms like "saved their freedom just because they would look bad otherwise". I am giving your statement the most logical interpretation I possibly can and I still come up with what is apparently an criticism of "when they released w33 and misery they didn't explicitly say they were assholes for doing so in their own press release", which is beyond comprehension. It's like the people who say dumb shit like "puppey is the one playing bad therefore the right decision is for him to kick himself". Dude, it is hypocrit and completely asshole-wise to express in a bad form something done by others that hurts you and play the good guy when you do it to others. You could have just said: Yeah, they could have written it differently, there was no need to use that wording", but no you have to go and make a stand for something that it is actually bad manner and injustifiable, comprehensible maybe but no justifiable the way society teach our kids. I just hope Secret qualifies to TI because if it were to not happen this would be a chain of comments on how Universe royaly assfcked Secret and how he deserves to burn in hell, even when they did the same to others. You're completely missing the point. I'm talking about how TS can afford to say whatever they want however they want. So if they say Universe abandoned TS when he sort of did, so what? That doesn't mean Universe isn't entitled to make the choice that's to his self-interest. The owner is just expressing how he feels. Meanwhile you're suggesting TS needs to post a laundry list of all the upsetting stuff they did to make it even. If someone cuts you off in traffic are you not allowed to react unless you turn yourself into the police every time you've ever blown past a stop sign? And now we get to the source of why you're such a sanctimonious prick. You've just admitted that you're imagining that everyone who isn't incredibly offended by the use of "abandoned" must be some caricature of some stereotypical hater. So you can say whatever dumb shit you want to them because in your head they've already thought worse things about you. No, you are wrong. TS doesn't need to post any laundry. I find their press release poor and mean. Intentionally letting slide bad blood and hate. You are standing by them because you are their fan and you suffer the possible loss of a direct invite but you didn't do the same when they purposely took away w33 and Misery's direct invite. It is not being offended it is being fair. They did the best for themselves with w33 an Misery and so did Universe, and so did RTZ countless times. Weighting it differently is hypocrit. Edit: I am not imagining things and I am only answering to you if you didn't get it yet. Edit2: Is completely ok not being offended, defending their modus operandi is not.
rofl how do you know what I did or didn't do? are you done imagining nonsense? just because i disagree with you doesn't mean you can make shit up about my opinions
your sense of "fair" seems to imply that w33ha and misery are huge hypocrites for not calling out universe for doing to team secret what team secret did to them right?
|
On June 10 2016 05:20 Danzo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2016 04:49 Shaella wrote:
Nice i'm sure we won the shuffle after all we have team secret bulba the best player in the world. Wait...did you just change your flair to Secret because of Bulba? ROFL
clearly you haven't followed my flair's progression
I legitimately had a team tinker flair man.
|
saddest part is that secret and kaipi are in the same qualifier  (((
|
Valve has to address an arguable loop hole in their rules.
1. Universe (or any 1 player) can screw over Secret and every team in the Euro qualifiers
2. All the other teams shouldn't have to deal with a ringer in the qualification process
What if NB swapped a player, or a player left newbee. 1 guy could screw over every uninvited Chinese team.
|
GG envy.
Dont know what to do from here. Disappointing this couldnt be grinded through.
edit: Oh fuck me. We got bubla instead?
Jesus. There go TI winning hopes.
edit2: Open quals? I'll legitimately have a little part of my soul hating Universe if I go to TI and there's no Envy.
|
It will be interesting to see how Valve reworks the system after TI.
Something that i would like to see is some clear rules of what makes you qualify to the Majors and TI. Say winning a major qualify you to the TI if you maintain 3 members, or you need to win a tournament to qualify to a Major, etc. Anything that is written and clear for the teams.
Also more structure about roster swaps/trades. Secret showed a flaw in the system, so what if there is a period of releasing players and other period of "signing"/joining.
|
On June 10 2016 09:33 Vankuga wrote:
It will be interesting to see how Valve reworks the system after TI.
Something that i would like to see is some clear rules of what makes you qualify to the Majors and TI. Say winning a major qualify you to the TI if you maintain 3 members, or you need to win a tournament to qualify to a Major, etc. Anything that is written and clear for the teams.
Also more structure about roster swaps/trades. Secret showed a flaw in the system, so what if there is a period of releasing players and other period of "signing"/joining.
i like your suggestion about 3 players for major winner. you should at least be able to lose/swap 1 -player between majors.
it is simply insane that 1 player can screw over every team (that does not not get a direct ti6 invite) in the EU and NA region.
if EG wins NA and Secret wins EU, Valve need to adjust the rules. I feel bad for all the teams that lose to a ringer.
|
What if EG and Secret both do NA open quals and one is knocked out?
Serious hit to the TI.
They should break their rules.
|
On June 10 2016 05:36 hariooo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2016 03:56 Racket wrote:On June 10 2016 03:46 hariooo wrote:On June 10 2016 03:19 Racket wrote:On June 10 2016 02:54 hariooo wrote:On June 10 2016 02:39 Racket wrote:On June 10 2016 02:32 hariooo wrote:On June 10 2016 02:18 Racket wrote:On June 10 2016 01:12 hariooo wrote:On June 10 2016 00:31 Racket wrote:
[quote]
Just like they did with w33 and Misery, RIGHT? Given that I'm talking about *how* TS says things, I'm not sure what you think w33 and misery have to do with this. It's fine to object to that particular shuffle but try and direct your outrage in a way that makes any sort of sense. On June 10 2016 00:41 emperorchampion wrote:
Except there are stakeholders other than sponsors that also have an interest in teams conducting themselves in a certain manner, like fans of the team and any other person with an interest in competitive dota, tournament organizers, other teams, etc. Especially in ESPORTS, where teams are small and change often. What is left to cheer for if all the players leave, you're not winning, and all you're left with is a history of shenanigans? It's fine to say "fuck the haters we do our own thing" if you're winning, but idk about otherwise. Fans have interests in a lot of things. If this is the deal breaker go cheer on some nondescript Chinese team with organized press releases. I'm fine where I am. Tournament organizers care about attendance and views. Drama supports both. As for Universe he was literally the worst player on the team and left his team in an awful situation. I expect him to go on unscathed because the community generally loves his public ally conflict free demeanor though. We are talking about how TS announced the departing of Universe, and you say they speak with freedom so I bring the w33/Misery affair where they kicked them and they saved their freedom just because they would look bad otherwise. You can be their fan but you have to be a bit less subjective, if they make Universe look like the bad guy they should do that to themselves when it is their turn. It makes sense if you don't brush a comment away because you don't wanna deal with it. I honestly don't understand what the hell you're trying to say. Just because TS has the ability to speak freely, they should be obligated to talk shit about *themselves*? What kind of insane logic are you trying to apply? Yeah, you are that kind of guy. Really no point arguing with you. I'm that guy trying to parse near nonsensical terms like "saved their freedom just because they would look bad otherwise". I am giving your statement the most logical interpretation I possibly can and I still come up with what is apparently an criticism of "when they released w33 and misery they didn't explicitly say they were assholes for doing so in their own press release", which is beyond comprehension. It's like the people who say dumb shit like "puppey is the one playing bad therefore the right decision is for him to kick himself". Dude, it is hypocrit and completely asshole-wise to express in a bad form something done by others that hurts you and play the good guy when you do it to others. You could have just said: Yeah, they could have written it differently, there was no need to use that wording", but no you have to go and make a stand for something that it is actually bad manner and injustifiable, comprehensible maybe but no justifiable the way society teach our kids. I just hope Secret qualifies to TI because if it were to not happen this would be a chain of comments on how Universe royaly assfcked Secret and how he deserves to burn in hell, even when they did the same to others. You're completely missing the point. I'm talking about how TS can afford to say whatever they want however they want. So if they say Universe abandoned TS when he sort of did, so what? That doesn't mean Universe isn't entitled to make the choice that's to his self-interest. The owner is just expressing how he feels. Meanwhile you're suggesting TS needs to post a laundry list of all the upsetting stuff they did to make it even. If someone cuts you off in traffic are you not allowed to react unless you turn yourself into the police every time you've ever blown past a stop sign? And now we get to the source of why you're such a sanctimonious prick. You've just admitted that you're imagining that everyone who isn't incredibly offended by the use of "abandoned" must be some caricature of some stereotypical hater. So you can say whatever dumb shit you want to them because in your head they've already thought worse things about you. No, you are wrong. TS doesn't need to post any laundry. I find their press release poor and mean. Intentionally letting slide bad blood and hate. You are standing by them because you are their fan and you suffer the possible loss of a direct invite but you didn't do the same when they purposely took away w33 and Misery's direct invite. It is not being offended it is being fair. They did the best for themselves with w33 an Misery and so did Universe, and so did RTZ countless times. Weighting it differently is hypocrit. Edit: I am not imagining things and I am only answering to you if you didn't get it yet. Edit2: Is completely ok not being offended, defending their modus operandi is not. rofl how do you know what I did or didn't do? are you done imagining nonsense? just because i disagree with you doesn't mean you can make shit up about my opinions your sense of "fair" seems to imply that w33ha and misery are huge hypocrites for not calling out universe for doing to team secret what team secret did to them right?
You are something else dude, you keep dodging the bullet and manipulating extracts of comments to keep the crap rolling.
You only show up to make these kind of comments that turn the threads into these never ending arguments. Keep it up, you are doing a good work.
|
I am somewhat confused what your point is Racket. One can talk about the exact wording, but I'm not sure what you expect from press releases. In the Misery&w33 case the press release said the team decided to do the changes and thanked Misery&w33 for everything they did (I don't really follow what was wrong with the press release), this time it says Universe left and hence the team has to go to open quals. Maybe it's just me, but I don't find the press release somehow particularly mean towards Universe.
If it were Secret players somehow blaming Universe I would find it hypocritical too, but they are not doing that and hopefully understand that Universe is thinking similarly as they've done in the past.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
