EPTNa`Vi Discussion - Page 35
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Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
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Abductedonut
United States324 Posts
I feel like batrider is XBOCT's kryptonite. He's constantly out of position and that's exactly what batrider capitalizes on. Combine that with the fact that XBOCT is always players a crazy carry hero, if he gets picked off na'vi are fighting at a hugeeeee disadvantage. Either na'vi has to always ban out the bat (but then i guess the other team could just pick magnus/pudge/other heros that can move other heros) or run some kind of super agressive one support team. I dunno. | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
Just a really awful feeling series against Newbee that highlighted basically all of the team's current weaknesses at once. | ||
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Faruko
Chile34171 Posts
They really need to shake things out, FNG draft has been sub-par to say the least, funn1k has been playing live ive never seen him play, so bad its annoying  , Xboct at this point, just doesnt cut it anymore.Anyway, NaVi 4 life (L) | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
Ughhhhhh | ||
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drusalnik
Bulgaria133 Posts
Expand on how much time will they need before XBOCT stops feeding? | ||
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MyrMindservant
695 Posts
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
On October 04 2014 05:53 MyrMindservant wrote: Hvost actually played quite well these last two days. I understand why some people may dislike him, but you are just a blind hater if you think that they dropped out of WCA because of him. Negative. XBOCT made some big "I'm a giant fat carry" plays but he also did a lot of XBOCT "I'm inexcusably out of position and/or diving idiotically" plays. I don't think they're out "because of him" - there were a lot of issues - but if you think he played "quite well" I'm unsure what your standard is. | ||
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Faruko
Chile34171 Posts
Get Batrider and Xboct gets completely shut down he is so out of position all The time, its the perfect situation for a Batrider I agree that he did play well at some points in these series and there are other things hindering NaVi's gameplay, but sadly, he is a shadow of his former self | ||
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MyrMindservant
695 Posts
On October 04 2014 05:56 FHDH wrote: Negative. XBOCT made some big "I'm a giant fat carry" plays but he also did a lot of XBOCT "I'm inexcusably out of position and/or diving idiotically" plays. I don't think they're out "because of him" - there were a lot of issues - but if you think he played "quite well" I'm unsure what your standard is. He made some mistakes, including large ones, but that's not the issue. Everyone does them, literally everyone. What is important is that he played his role well and did what he had to do. As fas as these two days are concerned, positive moments far outweigh the negatives in his play. It's not an issue of standards, but rather being unbiased and looking at things objectively. Edit: On October 04 2014 06:37 Faruko wrote: So its well to stay dar away from your teammates to kill a few creeps when theres a bat on The other team ? Do you know how this game is played? You can't just five-man constantly. Doing so would lose you the game more reliably than any ganks by enemy team. At professional level you absolutely have to take risks if you want to win. | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
It's not an issue of standards, but rather being unbiased and looking at things objectively. Well this is just rhetorically circular. We can both accuse each-other of not looking at things objectively when reaching different conclusions. By my observation he did not perform to the level of a top-tier carry overall and was personally responsible for putting the team in losing situations on more than one occasion. As a Na'Vi fan I want him to perform and will always be happy when he does. "Objectively speaking" though he failed to play intelligently at many junctures where it really mattered. There's no point in praising a hard-carry the team has worked diligently to feed for getting kills and holding that as a standard for performance. A big part of your 1-position's job is to play smart. If you think he did that consistently I would question your objectivity. (See how easy that is?) | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
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Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
I cannot really excuse him for this event. Regardless of the issues WCA was having, being so careless like that isn't excusable. I don't know what the hell his problem is but this isn't what he was before. There is a clear difference between baiting and feeding. He's pretty much feeding now. There is no excuse for this anymore, not with me. I can only defend Hvost enough times when it gets to the point where he's just clearly not even thinking with his movements anymore. | ||
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
That's not good enough. Of course, that's not an analysis of the entire scope of reasons they did so poorly, but it's definitely a bad sign. I felt Navi's entire performance at this event was a disaster, drafting was consistently assuming Navi would make little to no mistakes (and never adapted), plenty of misplays and over-aggression, etc. The lack of any progress in these matters is looking worse and worse for the team long term. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On October 04 2014 03:54 FHDH wrote: Watching Kuroky dominate at carry and Puppey's drafts stomping on top-tier teams hurts my heart. Ughhhhhh I can't say anything about kky, I love him. But Puppey, I would really hate him, so so so much, if he just by changing teams his drafting became godlike. This just because, no matter how much Xboct feeds and fks up, drafting was always his responsibility and given the rumors of him being a jerk and not listening to anyone it would be even worse, in my opinion and feelings. I would feel the same about Xboct if that were the case. | ||
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TrainSamurai
339 Posts
On October 04 2014 21:19 Racket wrote: I can't say anything about kky, I love him. But Puppey, I would really hate him, so so so much, if he just by changing teams his drafting became godlike. This just because, no matter how much Xboct feeds and fks up, drafting was always his responsibility and given the rumors of him being a jerk and not listening to anyone it would be even worse, in my opinion and feelings. I would feel the same about Xboct if that were the case. Theres probably more to the story. I remember in Epi's interview with Kuroky after TI3 Kuroky said "These people(other navi members) have no right to complain (about picks)". Made it seem like they give suggestions but don't really put effort into helping kuro and puppey pick. At one point he even used strong language to say other people in the team (I think it was XBOCT) should not complain about bad picks unless they help with the picks. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On October 04 2014 22:12 TrainSamurai wrote: Theres probably more to the story. I remember in Epi's interview with Kuroky after TI3 Kuroky said "These people(other navi members) have no right to complain (about picks)". Made it seem like they give suggestions but don't really put effort into helping kuro and puppey pick. At one point he even used strong language to say other people in the team (I think it was XBOCT) should not complain about bad picks unless they help with the picks. That's bullshit, though. They brought in Goblak for TI4 for no other purpose than to help out with analysis / strats / drafting, and pretty much everyone agreed that Puppey completely ignored anything that wasn't in complete agreement with what he wanted to do. Goblak said himself that he felt like he was wasting his time with Na'Vi because of that. | ||
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CodeskyE
United States777 Posts
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zdfgucker
China594 Posts
Overall the scene benefited from the fall of these insane stacks (Na'Vi, LGD int) as we got more good teams now that mix up the scene a bit. Na'Vi is at its weakest this year, I'd say. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On October 04 2014 22:47 zdfgucker wrote: I think that 20min gg push meta wasn't what Puppey is used to. Now, with longer games and back to carries being carries, Puppey can shine again. Same goes for Loda drafting for Alliance, rat is back. Overall the scene benefited from the fall of these insane stacks (Na'Vi, LGD int) as we got more good teams now that mix up the scene a bit. Na'Vi is at its weakest this year, I'd say. So, its not that Puppey's draft sucked back then but instead the meta didn't fitted his draft. In other words, what we were discussing all along. And now it is all Xboct fault, not because he sucks but because Puppey shines thanks to the new patch. In fact, given the current state, if thing went back, Na´Vi would shine again. All thanks to Ppy's draft and Xboct's performance with hard carries. Lets blame Zero Gravity!! | ||
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