EPTthe dangerous mindset to have is a complacent mindset, money changes people especially those who are already victorious and have nothing to prove anymore. As far as RTZ goes, no rtz will not "ruin" this team, whoever wrote that is probably new to dota, EG would not be EG without RTZ's contribution to it's history as a team. i will say though RTZ did NOT play up to his name this year. there were few to none defining moments or plays from rtz, and i don't blame him. as a carry player you're very limited in dictating the tempo of any game. i would also say fear's inability to quickly transition from a 1 position to a 4/5 position is also noticeable, its a hard thing to do when you're used to getting a lot of gold to getting none.
Evil Geniuses Discussion - Page 53
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saocyn
United States937 Posts
the dangerous mindset to have is a complacent mindset, money changes people especially those who are already victorious and have nothing to prove anymore. As far as RTZ goes, no rtz will not "ruin" this team, whoever wrote that is probably new to dota, EG would not be EG without RTZ's contribution to it's history as a team. i will say though RTZ did NOT play up to his name this year. there were few to none defining moments or plays from rtz, and i don't blame him. as a carry player you're very limited in dictating the tempo of any game. i would also say fear's inability to quickly transition from a 1 position to a 4/5 position is also noticeable, its a hard thing to do when you're used to getting a lot of gold to getting none. | ||
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reDicE
United States1020 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
Whoever thinks that losing 0-2 to a team that didn't even make it to TI5 main stage on a LAN isn't a big deal is insane. I blame ppd. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On October 04 2015 23:03 ForTehDarkseid wrote: Worst TI winners ever. Just shows how much stale dogshit TI5 meta really was - a minor change, and the reformed champions are crushed by a tier-2.5 team straightly afterwards. Whoever thinks that losing 0-2 to a team that didn't even make it to TI5 main stage on a LAN isn't a big deal is insane. I blame ppd. I take that you are kidding, otherwise your appreciation of the game is kinda lacking. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 04 2015 23:03 ForTehDarkseid wrote: Worst TI winners ever. Just shows how much stale dogshit TI5 meta really was - a minor change, and the reformed champions are crushed by a tier-2.5 team straightly afterwards. Whoever thinks that losing 0-2 to a team that didn't even make it to TI5 main stage on a LAN isn't a big deal is insane. I blame ppd. I'm pretty sure PPD blames PPD too. They can't win them all. They will come back in better shape. RTZ and Sumail need to learn invoker and Universe needs get a grip on brood. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
@Racket, I really really hate Gyro-Lina-SF-QoP-Tusk-Lesh-PL-Dazzle-WW-BS cancerfest every game which is what TI5 meta objectively was. Heck, TI1 did it better, all bugs considered. And, yeah so far Vega is still a 2.5 tier team with zero lan achievements. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 05 2015 02:58 ForTehDarkseid wrote: @Plansix, you forget about Fear) @Racket, I really really hate Gyro-Lina-SF-QoP-Tusk-Lesh-PL-Dazzle-WW-BS cancerfest every game which is what TI5 meta objectively was. Heck, TI1 did it better, all bugs considered. And, yeah so far Vega is still a 2.5 tier team with zero lan achievements. Fear can already play Invoker. PPD needs to draft supports for fear, rather than drafting naga, or some other potential core and in an attempt to confuse people if it will be core or support. Its a cute trick, but he does it every draft. Just pick Rubick or another solid support. | ||
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Super_Style
296 Posts
I am positive they will come to that first major and win it without much problem. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On October 05 2015 02:58 ForTehDarkseid wrote: @Plansix, you forget about Fear while his role is the most essential of them all) @Racket, I really really hate Gyro-Lina-SF-QoP-Tusk-Lesh-PL-Dazzle-WW-BS cancerfest every game which is what TI5 meta objectively was. Heck, TI1 did it better, all bugs considered. And, yeah so far Vega is still a 2.5 tier team with zero lan achievements. I don't like some heroes either, but my tastes doesn't make anything bad or good. TI5 showed a lot of different plausible playstyles and strategies. Not having any lan achievements doesn't automatically make a year old team tier 2.5, if you think that way then the old always second place c9 would never be considered more than tier 2. And then NaVi should be the highest tier team there is, at least until some TI winner make it to the finals the two consecutive years and win the ridiculous amount of tournament they won. Dude, rethink things a bit, there are ways to express yourself and ways to state facts, mixing both in such a blunt manner is not helping you make a point. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
On October 05 2015 05:12 Racket wrote: I don't like some heroes either, but my tastes doesn't make anything bad or good. TI5 showed a lot of different plausible playstyles and strategies. I am not talking about my personal attitude towards the hero designs. I am talking about the fact there were exact same heroes every game with a restricted range of playstyle execution and close to zero unique game-making moments. Not having any lan achievements doesn't automatically make a year old team tier 2.5, if you think that way then the old always second place c9 would never be considered more than tier 2. But, but making top4 in a LAN tournament is an achievement. And then NaVi should be the highest tier team there is, at least until some TI winner make it to the finals the two consecutive years and win the ridiculous amount of tournament they won. News flash, team rosters change. And you missed the point once again. Mind telling me which tier Vega truly belongs? They can't be tier 3, because they made it to a TI5 wildcard, but they can't be tier 2 because they haven't literally shown any kind of consistency in a LAN setting before ESL. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17238 Posts
On October 05 2015 02:58 ForTehDarkseid wrote: And, yeah so far Vega is still a 2.5 tier team with zero lan achievements. I guess we can scratch that part now  | ||
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pat777
United States356 Posts
On October 05 2015 03:25 Super_Style wrote: EG was shit before TI, result wise. Empire beat them in the finals, secret was beating them, as i said, result wise they werent the best but they came to TI and just like at DAC they won it fairly easy. I just think ppd and eg as a whole dont give a fuck about small tournaments and are trying random stuff(like that game 2, watafak was that) I am positive they will come to that first major and win it without much problem. I wouldn't say they were shit before TI. They may have not been winning every LAN but they did fairly well in a lot of them. I think they even won a LAN that secret dropped out of. I don't consider second place at the summit to be shit. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
Their problem is a new patch and a lack of practice, and that's about it. That and bad luck seeding. | ||
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sunrazgriz
Vatican City State1573 Posts
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yotsuna
Hong Kong186 Posts
On October 05 2015 10:14 WolfintheSheep wrote: Pretty sure EG missed out on like 2 grand finals between TI4 to TI5, so if EG was shit post-DAC, then all of DOTA is shit. Their problem is a new patch and a lack of practice, and that's about it. That and bad luck seeding. Indeed a team which played the least on new patch vs a team which played the most, only one winner. | ||
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uthgard
2098 Posts
On October 05 2015 02:49 Plansix wrote: I'm pretty sure PPD blames PPD too. They can't win them all. They will come back in better shape. RTZ and Sumail need to learn invoker and Universe needs get a grip on brood. pretty sure Suma1l can play invoker, I mean invoker is his favorite hero (heard that multiple times) if anything their lack of wisp player is their weakness in draft diversity | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14893 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On October 05 2015 07:40 ForTehDarkseid wrote: but they can't be tier 2 because they haven't literally shown any kind of consistency in a LAN setting before ESL. To be fair, you can't see any trends or consistency if your sole big lan event prior to ESL was the TI5 Wildcards. | ||
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lolnoty
United States7166 Posts
On October 05 2015 02:58 ForTehDarkseid wrote: And, yeah so far Vega is still a 2.5 tier team with zero lan achievements. I wish people would watch games and not wank on results. Dota is about current form, watching games of the last few weeks anyone would see Vega was super hot. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On October 05 2015 07:40 ForTehDarkseid wrote: I am not talking about my personal attitude towards the hero designs. I am talking about the fact there were exact same heroes every game with a restricted range of playstyle execution and close to zero unique game-making moments. But, but making top4 in a LAN tournament is an achievement. News flash, team rosters change. And you missed the point once again. Mind telling me which tier Vega truly belongs? They can't be tier 3, because they made it to a TI5 wildcard, but they can't be tier 2 because they haven't literally shown any kind of consistency in a LAN setting before ESL. 1) TI5 meta was way better than TI4, if the teams pick the same heroes over and over is because those are the ones that work best and they wanna win, if you wanna complain about that then go to TI3 and kick [A] in the balls, because the best team of that TI showed always the same playstyle and strats with the same heroes and they crushed everyone back then. TI1 is long gone, deal with it. 2) You can now call Vega more than tier 2.5 or maybe it doesn't count because of Secret's and EG'S roster changes, but again, if everything is about achievements, there are only 25 tier 1 players in the world. 3) News flash: EG's roster changed, Secret's roster changed. Last year Secret has clearly shown that having the best players doesn't automatically make you the best team. Thinking that signing RTZ will undoubtedly make the team better from the first game onward is delusional (not said by you) and calling them worst TI winners, after a roster change, because you don't take TI5 meta for something acceptable is quite shortsighted. And in that account [A] (without roster changes) and Newbee (with roster changes) had worse performances post TI win than EG, but of course EG can lose every single game till next TI and take that prize too. Back to Vega: Dude, they are TODAY one year old, again... one year old. Stop with the whining and watch the games, not everything is about achievements, and top4 lan is no achievement, you just wanna perceive it like that to make a point. On October 05 2015 14:00 lolnoty wrote: I wish people would watch games and not wank on results. Dota is about current form, watching games of the last few weeks anyone would see Vega was super hot. I agree. | ||
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