On August 30 2012 01:49 kafkaesque wrote: I'm getting really frustrated with my WW-Barbarian...
It feels like I'm dying way too frequently, and although I've increased my mitigation, LoH and Vitality, that doesn't seem to change much. I'm fine as long as there are a bunch of mobs around, but once I've killed the minions and only the Yellow stands, I drop faster than I can leech.
Quill beasts, Spear Throwers, Molochs (those evasive flying fuckers...) and especially those fat wizards who shield themselves... they all take AGES to kill and it's hard to even keep berserker up. If berserker isn't up, however, I drop like a sack of potatoes.
When the run is finished, which takes me about 1:10 hour (fields of slaughter + cave, bridge of corsik, keep depths 1-3, core of arreat), I hardly break even gold-wise and since 1.04 hit, I haven't sold a single mid-range item, even if I undercut the current market by 50%-75%...
I'm not a fan of the WW build either. I won't deny it's probably the best build by far for quick farming IF you have great gear but I don't like the style of it and don't think it works well if you don't have super gear.
sorry, but what are you talking about? after the latest inferno nerf, it is easily possible to make a ww/sprint barb that can clear act3 conveniently with gear for 10M.
Oh, I'm very interested in this, cause I have 10M to spend. I tried buying some pieces for this build last night and failed pretty hard at using this build in act 3, as I died a lot. Mainly, cause I don't really know how to play the build properly yet and of course having incomplete gear, especially the weapons part. Any help on what gear to buy would be great.
You're crit rate is okay but could use a bit more of a boost, i find being above 50% crit makes battle fury's into the fray work beautifully, but at your current level of 22% from gear + 5% base + 5% ruthless and a potential 10% more if you find an axe for weapon mastery, you'll be okay sitting at 42% as an early base.
Wow, thanks for this! I'll go AH hunting tonight using your advice.
NP, just trying to pay it forward after all the advice I got. let me know how it works out. we love sharing our success stories =P
and sorry for the wall of text.
Don't worry about it since that wall of text was useful. 1 more question, what do you think is the min level of hp and all res you would need as I'm going to have to sacrifice a bit when swapping gear? When I was trying this build I think I was dying because I had to switch out my defensive passives, apart from nerves of steal, to the ww passives.
On August 30 2012 01:49 kafkaesque wrote: I'm getting really frustrated with my WW-Barbarian...
It feels like I'm dying way too frequently, and although I've increased my mitigation, LoH and Vitality, that doesn't seem to change much. I'm fine as long as there are a bunch of mobs around, but once I've killed the minions and only the Yellow stands, I drop faster than I can leech.
Quill beasts, Spear Throwers, Molochs (those evasive flying fuckers...) and especially those fat wizards who shield themselves... they all take AGES to kill and it's hard to even keep berserker up. If berserker isn't up, however, I drop like a sack of potatoes.
When the run is finished, which takes me about 1:10 hour (fields of slaughter + cave, bridge of corsik, keep depths 1-3, core of arreat), I hardly break even gold-wise and since 1.04 hit, I haven't sold a single mid-range item, even if I undercut the current market by 50%-75%...
I'm not a fan of the WW build either. I won't deny it's probably the best build by far for quick farming IF you have great gear but I don't like the style of it and don't think it works well if you don't have super gear.
sorry, but what are you talking about? after the latest inferno nerf, it is easily possible to make a ww/sprint barb that can clear act3 conveniently with gear for 10M.
Oh, I'm very interested in this, cause I have 10M to spend. I tried buying some pieces for this build last night and failed pretty hard at using this build in act 3, as I died a lot. Mainly, cause I don't really know how to play the build properly yet and of course having incomplete gear, especially the weapons part. Any help on what gear to buy would be great.
You're crit rate is okay but could use a bit more of a boost, i find being above 50% crit makes battle fury's into the fray work beautifully, but at your current level of 22% from gear + 5% base + 5% ruthless and a potential 10% more if you find an axe for weapon mastery, you'll be okay sitting at 42% as an early base.
Wow, thanks for this! I'll go AH hunting tonight using your advice.
NP, just trying to pay it forward after all the advice I got. let me know how it works out. we love sharing our success stories =P
and sorry for the wall of text.
Don't worry about it since that wall of text was useful. 1 more question, what do you think is the min level of hp and all res you would need as I'm going to have to sacrifice a bit when swapping gear? When I was trying this build I think I was dying because I had to switch out my defensive passives, apart from nerves of steal, to the ww passives.
600 AR, 6000 Armor and 40k Health (after Warcry) will let you handle everything, with at least 1300 LoH.
Actually...that was before 1.04, so it might be less now.
The hardest part of the build is learning that Whirlwind is not your damage skill, Sprint is.
I actually meant 6k buffed armor and 600 buffed AR . Any more than that let's you be really lazy with your playstyle, but it's not necessary if you can't get anything higher.
I used to think that I didn't have enough survivability, and then I stumbled onto a stream of a high-tier WW Tornado Barb and realized that it was my play style getting me killed, not my gear. Basically, I learned not to fully commit (spin into the middle of the pack) unless I KNOW I can survive them. Run around them for a moment and test the waters. Pay attention to if/how fast your health is falling to determine how long you can stay close to them. Read the Affixes if you can, or just keep a safe distance until you figure them out if you can't. The higher the act, the more damage stuff like Poison and Molten and Desecrator will do. In Act1, you can usually just twirl away in them forever with no fucks given, but in A3, you need to GTFO of them unless you're running like 900 AR and 1400 LOH (overkill, IMO).
Kite damnit, it's the point of the build. Don't run in a straight line away from them though, unless you are about to die. Try to zig-zag so you can stack multiple tornados in range of each other and then get the mobs to stop inside them.
Also note that some mobs' AI is to run away and then run back to you after a couple seconds (Fallen, Wasps, Imps, probably some more). Rather than chase them halfway across the map, just stay put and lay down a ring of Tornados and they will eventually come back to you and run straight into them.
I'm sure there are a million other little tidbits of info that I've picked up along the way, but nothing comes to mind at the moment.
Something worth mentioning is that high survivability will translate to higher damage, especially against molten/plagued/fire chain elites.
Sprint does 240% Damage, Whirlwind 145%, and Tornadoes in the middle of mobs hits more enemies than ones on the edges. So, if you give up half your DPS to stay in mobs constantly, it'll usually amount to a faster run.
On August 31 2012 09:28 Sylvr wrote: I used to think that I didn't have enough survivability, and then I stumbled onto a stream of a high-tier WW Tornado Barb and realized that it was my play style getting me killed, not my gear. Basically, I learned not to fully commit (spin into the middle of the pack) unless I KNOW I can survive them. Run around them for a moment and test the waters. Pay attention to if/how fast your health is falling to determine how long you can stay close to them. Read the Affixes if you can, or just keep a safe distance until you figure them out if you can't. The higher the act, the more damage stuff like Poison and Molten and Desecrator will do. In Act1, you can usually just twirl away in them forever with no fucks given, but in A3, you need to GTFO of them unless you're running like 900 AR and 1400 LOH (overkill, IMO).
Kite damnit, it's the point of the build. Don't run in a straight line away from them though, unless you are about to die. Try to zig-zag so you can stack multiple tornados in range of each other and then get the mobs to stop inside them.
Also note that some mobs' AI is to run away and then run back to you after a couple seconds (Fallen, Wasps, Imps, probably some more). Rather than chase them halfway across the map, just stay put and lay down a ring of Tornados and they will eventually come back to you and run straight into them.
I'm sure there are a million other little tidbits of info that I've picked up along the way, but nothing comes to mind at the moment.
Lemme add some tips to your post.
1) Learn the circle spin. WW lets u move through mobs, you should learn the best distance to spin in a circle in order to generate the most amount of tornadoes hitting the same spot. This "sweet spot" as i call it is basically the best part of WW/Sprint. This should be the number 1 thing to learn, how to create the sweet spot with the circle spin. Anything in that spot should die pretty fast from having all 3 tornadoes hitting at the same time.
2) Advanced circle spin. With enough practice, some ground AOE affixes can be fought just by creating the sweet spot one step away at a time. This will reduce the damage you take compared to just circle spinning in a single spot. Its extremely useful for certain types of monsters like Elite Skull Cleavers who does a crapton of damage per hit, you want your tornado sweet spot to be hitting them but you dont want to take too much damage, this is the technique to do so.
3) Cold weapons are awesome on a tornado barb. Please do carry a cold weapon to switch to for things like goblins/quillbeasts who run away. You will thank me later. I cant emphasis it enough, cold weapons are awesome.
4) Because i farm in act3, there's a tip for fighting in the Keeps depth lvl1-3. For monsters that run away like Quillbeasts, what i like to do is lure to a doorway, they lose their LOS on you will come towards the door, clustering up. Now they are in a single file, great for spinning Abuse monster AI.
5) Tornado Barbs are one of the best builds to play for MF switching. I switch to full MF gear every elite pack without fear of dying because i can always just run away and let the sprint tornadoes take them out. Good stuff this build is.
On August 30 2012 01:49 kafkaesque wrote: I'm getting really frustrated with my WW-Barbarian...
It feels like I'm dying way too frequently, and although I've increased my mitigation, LoH and Vitality, that doesn't seem to change much. I'm fine as long as there are a bunch of mobs around, but once I've killed the minions and only the Yellow stands, I drop faster than I can leech.
Quill beasts, Spear Throwers, Molochs (those evasive flying fuckers...) and especially those fat wizards who shield themselves... they all take AGES to kill and it's hard to even keep berserker up. If berserker isn't up, however, I drop like a sack of potatoes.
When the run is finished, which takes me about 1:10 hour (fields of slaughter + cave, bridge of corsik, keep depths 1-3, core of arreat), I hardly break even gold-wise and since 1.04 hit, I haven't sold a single mid-range item, even if I undercut the current market by 50%-75%...
I'm not a fan of the WW build either. I won't deny it's probably the best build by far for quick farming IF you have great gear but I don't like the style of it and don't think it works well if you don't have super gear.
sorry, but what are you talking about? after the latest inferno nerf, it is easily possible to make a ww/sprint barb that can clear act3 conveniently with gear for 10M.
Oh, I'm very interested in this, cause I have 10M to spend. I tried buying some pieces for this build last night and failed pretty hard at using this build in act 3, as I died a lot. Mainly, cause I don't really know how to play the build properly yet and of course having incomplete gear, especially the weapons part. Any help on what gear to buy would be great.
You're crit rate is okay but could use a bit more of a boost, i find being above 50% crit makes battle fury's into the fray work beautifully, but at your current level of 22% from gear + 5% base + 5% ruthless and a potential 10% more if you find an axe for weapon mastery, you'll be okay sitting at 42% as an early base.
Wow, thanks for this! I'll go AH hunting tonight using your advice.
NP, just trying to pay it forward after all the advice I got. let me know how it works out. we love sharing our success stories =P
and sorry for the wall of text.
Ok I upgraded my gear and actually had 20M to spend cause some sales came in. It's going ok, but still learning it as sometimes I get stuck in a large mob and run out of fury and die. Did part of act 3 with my friend and he thinks my dps is still too low, but it's the best I can get right now. Also, even though I have 24% movement speed, I only see 4 tornados appear, when I read it should be 5 with even 12%.
Tried to farm Act 3 with nearly 700 AR - 52k HP and 50k DPS and I died repeatedly to stupid firechain / reflect / vortex packs. Am I just hitting the learning curve? Because I was also rage starved so I just used the new 1handers I got and went back to tanking because I thought maybe my gear was bit too low.
On August 31 2012 14:17 iLLusive wrote: Tried to farm Act 3 with nearly 700 AR - 52k HP and 50k DPS and I died repeatedly to stupid firechain / reflect / vortex packs. Am I just hitting the learning curve? Because I was also rage starved so I just used the new 1handers I got and went back to tanking because I thought maybe my gear was bit too low.
Sounds like its just a learning issue? Elites with those affix you just mention are actually pretty easy packs?
Yeah guess I'll need to be more patient and try again but is 35% low on crit? That is with 15% from passive bonuses and 290% CD. I mean I was clearing trash pretty good but soon as elites came I seem to have no fury and bam dead.
On August 31 2012 09:28 Sylvr wrote: I used to think that I didn't have enough survivability, and then I stumbled onto a stream of a high-tier WW Tornado Barb and realized that it was my play style getting me killed, not my gear. Basically, I learned not to fully commit (spin into the middle of the pack) unless I KNOW I can survive them. Run around them for a moment and test the waters. Pay attention to if/how fast your health is falling to determine how long you can stay close to them. Read the Affixes if you can, or just keep a safe distance until you figure them out if you can't. The higher the act, the more damage stuff like Poison and Molten and Desecrator will do. In Act1, you can usually just twirl away in them forever with no fucks given, but in A3, you need to GTFO of them unless you're running like 900 AR and 1400 LOH
You are absolutely correct; you require the healing stream given by multiple tornadoes to be able to survive the hits from hard-hitting enemies. For scary packs, this usually means being careful at the start of fights to get that healing stream established before venturing into the middle of a pack.
But do you know how I start my fights with the most scary of all elite packs? + Show Spoiler +
I just leap straight in. No fucks given, with 49k health and ~550 BUFFED resist. Iron impact is a beautiful thing...
On August 31 2012 14:17 iLLusive wrote: Tried to farm Act 3 with nearly 700 AR - 52k HP and 50k DPS and I died repeatedly to stupid firechain / reflect / vortex packs. Am I just hitting the learning curve? Because I was also rage starved so I just used the new 1handers I got and went back to tanking because I thought maybe my gear was bit too low.
On August 31 2012 14:41 iLLusive wrote: Yeah guess I'll need to be more patient and try again but is 35% low on crit? That is with 15% from passive bonuses and 290% CD. I mean I was clearing trash pretty good but soon as elites came I seem to have no fury and bam dead.
Your crit is too low (get 45% minimum), but your defensive stats are all absolutely fine.
i found that using a mighty weapon was a good alternative to having high crit (obviously you still need crit but you can find a better mighty weapon than you would an axe or mace for the same cost most of the time)
You'll need a belt with -5 fury to throwing weapons, and high crit chance is required (eg sprint/ww gear will do fine, but a 2H weapon is probably recommended)
My gear is not ideal for a WW build because it's mostly from a tankier build but still it should be ok i guess. The WW build worked but it was just much slower than a rend build. To kill elite packs I have to run around them a lot and it takes a while with the nastier kiting types etc. Bosses also take much longer with this style that I just don't feel it's worth it. I save some time running from creep to creep but that's not even that much and I take significantly longer to kill elites. I found keeping Wotb up between elite packs to be difficult as well especially in the towers of the damned parts where sometimes you run 5-10 secs without seeing units. With a rend build running out of Wotb is no biggy, it's only really useful for frozen affixes. With WW/sprine it's needed for so much more though because jailer, frozen, nightmare can all screw you up. Anyway I'm sure part of it is because of some mistakes playing the build if you get used to picking up rares quickly you can sustain WoTb more often I guess.
Sure I take a bit longer to move from pack to pack but I can kill goblins with ease, am much faster at killing elites and die less often. I also don't need to rush as much to keep my WoTb up so I can go back to pick up any rares (whites drop them quite often now). The most important thing for me to dislike a WW/sprint build though is that it just doesn't work too well in teamplay. If your speed and style doesn't match the other players the whole thing doesn't work too well.
I'm not sure what to upgrade next, really. Rings are on the agenda, but after that.... dunno! :D
very nice mainhand! was probably a steal, like most crit + no sox weapons.
but imho your helm sucks because it has no socket. no matter the trigger effects or offensive stats, skipping 25-31% extra exp is just not acceptable imho with the new level system.
assuming a 25% gem and that you get the full 75% extra exp from 5 nv stacks, thats still 14% overall exp that you are giving away because of the missing socket. (200/175 = 1.14...)
EPT
. Any more than that let's you be really lazy with your playstyle, but it's not necessary if you can't get anything higher.
