On June 22 2012 06:06 dAPhREAk wrote: i thought it was determined that force weapon sucks ass and familiar with sparkflint is better.
Not too sure, really. It gives 2k less DPS for me, but adds on around 3k-10k dmg per cast on anything. I use it because it can proc arcane on crit, but I'm not sure how it stacks up without that. Have to realize that although you gain the familiar dmg, it's only single target while magic weapon will apply to all your spells and give you greater aoe dmg.
well, the sparkflint gives you a 12% buff (i assume aoe effective) and an additional familiar projectile (single target, 20%), whereas magic weapon with force weapon only gives you 15% w/ 2% knockback. on paper, familiar looks better, but for some reason force weapon was being counted twice on paper dps. then, someone said it was just paper damage and didn't actually cause additional damage. i was wondering if someone has actually tested this to determine.
99.999% sure they fixed this last patch (the display error on force weapon)
yes they did
thats what i thought.
so, now i am wondering, is force weapon still the better choice? familiar w/ sparkflint is 3% less dmg, but you get the added benefit of the 20% attack on single target.
I dropped hydra and now i have both force weap + sparkflint. probably worse overall.. but i like seeing big numbers when my orbs crit. I tried dropping teleport but it's just too useful with fracture
it wont affect your crit but you can switch force weapon for venom and then you get the magic weapon bonus plus the venom bonus.
What do you mean by "venom bonus"? Is having something doing venom damage important?
On June 22 2012 07:01 Itsmedudeman wrote: [quote] Not too sure, really. It gives 2k less DPS for me, but adds on around 3k-10k dmg per cast on anything. I use it because it can proc arcane on crit, but I'm not sure how it stacks up without that. Have to realize that although you gain the familiar dmg, it's only single target while magic weapon will apply to all your spells and give you greater aoe dmg.
well, the sparkflint gives you a 12% buff (i assume aoe effective) and an additional familiar projectile (single target, 20%), whereas magic weapon with force weapon only gives you 15% w/ 2% knockback. on paper, familiar looks better, but for some reason force weapon was being counted twice on paper dps. then, someone said it was just paper damage and didn't actually cause additional damage. i was wondering if someone has actually tested this to determine.
99.999% sure they fixed this last patch (the display error on force weapon)
yes they did
thats what i thought.
so, now i am wondering, is force weapon still the better choice? familiar w/ sparkflint is 3% less dmg, but you get the added benefit of the 20% attack on single target.
I dropped hydra and now i have both force weap + sparkflint. probably worse overall.. but i like seeing big numbers when my orbs crit. I tried dropping teleport but it's just too useful with fracture
it wont affect your crit but you can switch force weapon for venom and then you get the magic weapon bonus plus the venom bonus.
What do you mean by "venom bonus"? Is having something doing venom damage important?
it just adds venom damage.
yeah.. so why would i switch force weapon for it?
adds 15% damage (over time) instead of the 5% damage you get for force weapon. venom is a rune on magic weapon.
On June 22 2012 07:45 dAPhREAk wrote: [quote] well, the sparkflint gives you a 12% buff (i assume aoe effective) and an additional familiar projectile (single target, 20%), whereas magic weapon with force weapon only gives you 15% w/ 2% knockback. on paper, familiar looks better, but for some reason force weapon was being counted twice on paper dps. then, someone said it was just paper damage and didn't actually cause additional damage. i was wondering if someone has actually tested this to determine.
99.999% sure they fixed this last patch (the display error on force weapon)
yes they did
thats what i thought.
so, now i am wondering, is force weapon still the better choice? familiar w/ sparkflint is 3% less dmg, but you get the added benefit of the 20% attack on single target.
I dropped hydra and now i have both force weap + sparkflint. probably worse overall.. but i like seeing big numbers when my orbs crit. I tried dropping teleport but it's just too useful with fracture
it wont affect your crit but you can switch force weapon for venom and then you get the magic weapon bonus plus the venom bonus.
What do you mean by "venom bonus"? Is having something doing venom damage important?
it just adds venom damage.
yeah.. so why would i switch force weapon for it?
adds 15% damage (over time) instead of the 5% damage you get for force weapon. venom is a rune on magic weapon.
Force weapon is 15%.... unless i'm really missing something here
99.999% sure they fixed this last patch (the display error on force weapon)
yes they did
thats what i thought.
so, now i am wondering, is force weapon still the better choice? familiar w/ sparkflint is 3% less dmg, but you get the added benefit of the 20% attack on single target.
I dropped hydra and now i have both force weap + sparkflint. probably worse overall.. but i like seeing big numbers when my orbs crit. I tried dropping teleport but it's just too useful with fracture
it wont affect your crit but you can switch force weapon for venom and then you get the magic weapon bonus plus the venom bonus.
What do you mean by "venom bonus"? Is having something doing venom damage important?
it just adds venom damage.
yeah.. so why would i switch force weapon for it?
adds 15% damage (over time) instead of the 5% damage you get for force weapon. venom is a rune on magic weapon.
Force weapon is 15%.... unless i'm really missing something here
magic weapon is 10%. force weapon rune increases that to 15% + knockback chance.
if you get venom rune, then you get magic weapon at 10% and venom at 15%. at least that is how i read it.
On June 22 2012 08:50 Nizaris wrote: [quote] yes they did
thats what i thought.
so, now i am wondering, is force weapon still the better choice? familiar w/ sparkflint is 3% less dmg, but you get the added benefit of the 20% attack on single target.
I dropped hydra and now i have both force weap + sparkflint. probably worse overall.. but i like seeing big numbers when my orbs crit. I tried dropping teleport but it's just too useful with fracture
it wont affect your crit but you can switch force weapon for venom and then you get the magic weapon bonus plus the venom bonus.
What do you mean by "venom bonus"? Is having something doing venom damage important?
it just adds venom damage.
yeah.. so why would i switch force weapon for it?
adds 15% damage (over time) instead of the 5% damage you get for force weapon. venom is a rune on magic weapon.
Force weapon is 15%.... unless i'm really missing something here
magic weapon is 10%. force weapon rune increases that to 15% + knockback chance.
if you get venom rune, then you get magic weapon at 10% and venom at 15%. at least that is how i read it.
Ah, i see what you mean. Yeah i don't know how it works. When i cast venom weapon my DPS goes up by about 7%. I'm not sure if they are including teh "damage over time" portion of venom weapon in that calculation or not.
ok i have 700 all resis, 30k life 45k damage along with 1000 life reg and 300 life on hit playing a hydra blizzard sorc and still cant kill ghom. (after the recent patch). I used to almost oneshot him with my dh but the pattern has completly changed.
the elites in act3 are pretty strong as well.
I have spend all my traded money in the rmah yesterday to get this gear which i think is very good
should i be able to kill diablo with it? if not what do I need? any gosu sorc vidz farming act4 / killing diablo out?
On June 22 2012 20:41 HadeCiao wrote: ok i have 700 all resis, 30k life 45k damage along with 1000 life reg and 300 life on hit playing a hydra blizzard sorc and still cant kill ghom. (after the recent patch). I used to almost oneshot him with my dh but the pattern has completly changed.
the elites in act3 are pretty strong as well.
I have spend all my traded money in the rmah yesterday to get this gear which i think is very good
should i be able to kill diablo with it? if not what do I need? any gosu sorc vidz farming act4 / killing diablo out?
unless diablo got way harder you can easily do him. did him with more dps(prepatch anyways) and more hp but way less ont he other stats.
On June 22 2012 07:41 Depetrify wrote: Well I just spend 54m on items and I have 48k DPS with the weapon buff thing on...
Failed? I was expecting like 80k DPs.
oO i dont think i spent even half of that on my sorc and im at 56k with forcewpn. hope atleast your defensive stats are crazy or you really bought aton of overprized stuff
So I was lucky and picked up a nice plan which I promptly sold. I have 14 mil to spend and wanted to decide if it was worth exploring 1-handed signature spell builds.
Currently using 2-hander. AO/Hydra build. 44k dps, 6400 Armor, 500 resists, 58k life (with buffs)
Are there more viable builds out there since the landscape changed after the patch?
hope you can help me out. since the last patch i feel kinda lost and dont know how where and how to farm.
prepatch i farmed a3 siegebraker with some problems, but it was doable. i tried it 3 times since then but certain packs just seem to kill me too often to be profitable.
my stats (with glasscannon, no other buffs) 32k hp 410-490 resistances 37,6k dps 26% crit 117% crit damage 450 life per second
Why does using MM preclude 2h? You do (slightly) more damage for cheaper with a 2h compared to a 1h for MM alone. Factor in your support spells like blizzard and hydra that simply ignore your weapon speed, you're doing even more with 2h.
See my calculations about halfway down my huge reply on the last page for straight calculations where I showed a cheaper 2h provided a minimum of 17% more damage and more stats to boot for a standard mm/blizz/hydra spec.
Because I enjoy kiting a lot and shooting MM at things with higher attack speed. 1h speed > 2h speed. That's good enough for me. I'm not trying to use T3h_most_Epick_l337_effic14nt_Bu1ld
I stand in awe of your eloquence. Your well crafted argument has persuaded me wholeheartedly to abandon my meritless two handed path.
Good! Because I was TOTALLY trying to argue in favor of my style over yours, right!? Or no no, actually I was probably just trying to justify why I personally enjoy a slightly different style than you, even if *your* particular testing and experimenting yielded slightly worse results vs. another style. Your false inference that I'm trying to "convince" you to change your own play style is childish and absurd.
yeah. How you managed to miss that I'm not trying to use the most "peer reviewed (ROFL)" and confirmed "most efficient" method is beyond me. It should be obvious that I don't really care if *you* found that using a 2h is slightly more efficient -- it simply doesn't appeal to my style based off exactly what I said -- I don't enjoy shooting things slower, even if slower gets the job done a little bit better in the long run. No need to be a complete dick head about it
Why does using MM preclude 2h? You do (slightly) more damage for cheaper with a 2h compared to a 1h for MM alone. Factor in your support spells like blizzard and hydra that simply ignore your weapon speed, you're doing even more with 2h.
See my calculations about halfway down my huge reply on the last page for straight calculations where I showed a cheaper 2h provided a minimum of 17% more damage and more stats to boot for a standard mm/blizz/hydra spec.
Because I enjoy kiting a lot and shooting MM at things with higher attack speed. 1h speed > 2h speed. That's good enough for me. I'm not trying to use T3h_most_Epick_l337_effic14nt_Bu1ld
I stand in awe of your eloquence. Your well crafted argument has persuaded me wholeheartedly to abandon my meritless two handed path.
Good! Because I was TOTALLY trying to argue in favor of my style over yours, right!? Or no no, actually I was probably just trying to justify why I personally enjoy a slightly different style than you, even if *your* particular testing and experimenting yielded slightly worse results vs. another style. Your false inference that I'm trying to "convince" you to change your own play style is childish and absurd.
yeah. How you managed to miss that I'm not trying to use the most "peer reviewed (ROFL)" and confirmed "most efficient" method is beyond me. It should be obvious that I don't really care if *you* found that using a 2h is slightly more efficient -- it simply doesn't appeal to my style based off exactly what I said -- I don't enjoy shooting things slower, even if slower gets the job done a little bit better in the long run. No need to be a complete dick head about it
You could say its a cost/benefit preference where having a higher attack speed allows for both increased flexibility of casting options and decision response time providing leading to safer game play providing you a better overall game experience.
For example, after the speed nerf, it doesn't matter a hill of beans if my Witch Doctor eventually will have double the DPS it used to have stacking speed now that I can't stack speed--the slower animation cycle is killing me in inferno because I am less able to Kite than I am used to due to the slower response time of the Witch Doctor. No amount of real damage/fake damage argumentation will overcome the minimum requirement of "Don't die to fast small mobs" which forces me to have to find the fastest 1handers I can get and to stack as much attack speed as I can get until I finally have a fast enough attack again to be able to kite properly--even if this lowers my DPS it doesn't matter since I'm attempting to increase my survival rate.
TLDR
Is 17% increased damage worth a slower response time? In Softcore it seems like an easy decision--but what if this was Hardcore?
Well... I think realistically the response time difference between 1.7 and 1.9 attack speed is actually not particularly crippling as I've noticed whenever I find a frenzy shrine on my spinter WD.
On June 22 2012 20:41 HadeCiao wrote: ok i have 700 all resis, 30k life 45k damage along with 1000 life reg and 300 life on hit playing a hydra blizzard sorc and still cant kill ghom. (after the recent patch). I used to almost oneshot him with my dh but the pattern has completly changed.
the elites in act3 are pretty strong as well.
I have spend all my traded money in the rmah yesterday to get this gear which i think is very good
should i be able to kill diablo with it? if not what do I need? any gosu sorc vidz farming act4 / killing diablo out?
Better than my setup, and I can kill Diablo easily:
Although now that I think about it, that's probably 700 resist with prismatic up which is slightly worse than my setup. But everything else looks golden.
ok ive been doing some thorough spreadsheet testing to look for a weapon upgrade in the rmah, i set my limit to 15 eu and was looking for 1hers and 2hers. with the following stats:
1h :130 int 60 damage to crit and a socket ( got a 60% emerald) 2h: 250 int ( my current 1h + offahnd gives me 290 int) 60 damage to crit and a socket.
conclusion: choosing the best options i could choose for the price, i was loosing around 7-10 k dps choosing the 2h. I would probably be gaining bigger blasts but the hit on crit chance with all the crit damage was too big for it to be worth it. So i think your choice really depends on the gear you currently have, specially on where you have been able to aquire crit chance slots. Had i been able to get a similar crit chance without an offhand then yeah 2h would have been better, but since it isnt the case im sticking to 1h + offhand.
On June 23 2012 00:47 Juicyfruit wrote: Well... I think realistically the response time difference between 1.7 and 1.9 attack speed is actually not particularly crippling as I've noticed whenever I find a frenzy shrine on my spinter WD.
On June 22 2012 07:01 Itsmedudeman wrote: [quote] Not too sure, really. It gives 2k less DPS for me, but adds on around 3k-10k dmg per cast on anything. I use it because it can proc arcane on crit, but I'm not sure how it stacks up without that. Have to realize that although you gain the familiar dmg, it's only single target while magic weapon will apply to all your spells and give you greater aoe dmg.
well, the sparkflint gives you a 12% buff (i assume aoe effective) and an additional familiar projectile (single target, 20%), whereas magic weapon with force weapon only gives you 15% w/ 2% knockback. on paper, familiar looks better, but for some reason force weapon was being counted twice on paper dps. then, someone said it was just paper damage and didn't actually cause additional damage. i was wondering if someone has actually tested this to determine.
99.999% sure they fixed this last patch (the display error on force weapon)
yes they did
thats what i thought.
so, now i am wondering, is force weapon still the better choice? familiar w/ sparkflint is 3% less dmg, but you get the added benefit of the 20% attack on single target.
I dropped hydra and now i have both force weap + sparkflint. probably worse overall.. but i like seeing big numbers when my orbs crit. I tried dropping teleport but it's just too useful with fracture
it wont affect your crit but you can switch force weapon for venom and then you get the magic weapon bonus plus the venom bonus.
What do you mean by "venom bonus"? Is having something doing venom damage important?
it just adds venom damage.
yeah.. so why would i switch force weapon for it?
Short Answer: To make your hydra/blizzard damage 3% better and for knockback bonus.
EPT
