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On October 18 2010 05:14 MetalSlug wrote:
KeSPa wants something from Gretech/Blizzard.
Blizzard recommends the IP lawyer.
KeSPa can accept or not.
The lawyer will be some kind of referee in the negotiations.
How is that unfair ?
On the other hand,
what if KeSPA actually doesn't have issue with Blizzard but with Gretech? That's why KeSPA is fine with this term.
Do correct me if I'm wrong, but the idea of getting 1 won / 100 mils won from IP is coming from Gretech and not Blizzard ... ?
????
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On October 18 2010 11:23 Crisium wrote:Our hope is kept alive. This is good. But MSL hope is pointless, right? 
Yes, Gretech already killed off the MSL despite their PR about furthering esports. I doubt these negotiations will get anywhere, it's not about the money (which kespa is willing to pay) but about control/oversight which neither side seems willing to back down on.
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On October 18 2010 05:09 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2010 05:05 Selith wrote:
The arbitrator -- the IP rights lawyer -- can be seen as the 'referee'. For fairness, the IP rights lawyer will be recommended by Blizzard, and if both sides agree on the choice of the IP rights lawyer, negotiation will start.
i don't understand how this is going to be fair
Blizzard wants the most money/success for their games, theoretically.
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So they pay for the rights to broadcast but Gretech gets to decide on what's on 50% of the adverts as well?
Wtf? How much money does Gretech really want?
So on top of 50% of control over what's advertised they want 100mil won for EVERY league..Has anyone done the numbers?
Does this include things like heritage league and STX masters cups and such? Does it include allstar matches?
If it does then it really adds up..like 100mil*(3*OSL + 3*MSL + 3*Proleague + STX Masters + Allstar) = over a billion won in a year...
...but then Gretech can jack the price again because it has to be renegotiated every year.
hmm
I think, they should go to court...This 3rd party business "selected by blizzard lol" sounds like a farce.
Settle this once and for all!
P.S. Bring back MSL..
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fewer people playing sc2 now...
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On October 18 2010 12:57 everstarleague wrote:
fewer people playing sc2 now...
lots of people still play....
I hope they get GSL MSL and OSL going again 
with proleague too. that would be best
from what i see MSL is gone and proleague isnt coming back until Dec 2010 if we are really lucky probably early 2011
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On October 18 2010 05:05 Selith wrote:
Prior, Gretech sent KeSPA a certified mail. KeSPA sent a response, but it ended with just confirming both side's position in this matter. So following that, it is decided that just negotiation between both of them will not find an agreement easily. Therefore, they have decided on a 3rd party arbitrator in an attempt to find a solution. The arbitrator -- the IP rights lawyer -- can be seen as the 'referee'. For fairness, the IP rights lawyer will be recommended by Blizzard, and if both sides agree on the choice of the IP rights lawyer, negotiation will start.
as long as it's not a kespa referee this can work out in BW's favor.
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On October 18 2010 12:06 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2010 05:09 infinitestory wrote:On October 18 2010 05:05 Selith wrote:
The arbitrator -- the IP rights lawyer -- can be seen as the 'referee'. For fairness, the IP rights lawyer will be recommended by Blizzard, and if both sides agree on the choice of the IP rights lawyer, negotiation will start.
i don't understand how this is going to be fair Blizzard wants the most money/success for their games, theoretically.
I think it's fair enough.
I think you need to read further a little bit further. If Kespa does not feel that the lawyer, whom Blizzard recommended, will provide a fair viewpoint, then they can object and Blizzard have to choose a new 'referee' until Kespa is also satisfied.
The same go in reverse, Kespa could recommend the lawyer and Blizzard have to agree with Kespa too.
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It'd be funny when Kespa and Gretech reach an agreement
Kespa will shut down BW then switch to SC2 all together
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On October 18 2010 14:02 dazer wrote:
It'd be funny when Kespa and Gretech reach an agreement
Kespa will shut down BW then switch to SC2 all together
Lol yes totally.
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On October 18 2010 05:07 emperorchampion wrote:
*crosses fingers*
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On October 18 2010 14:02 dazer wrote:
It'd be funny when Kespa and Gretech reach an agreement
Kespa will shut down BW then switch to SC2 all together
Whoa! Thats some seriously fucked up but perfectly believeable scenario you got there.
GAAAH now I don't know what to hope for with these negotiations, perpetual deadlock maybe.
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I don't think people realize that right now its not about the money but about recognizing the IP rights of the game developer.
The way I see it:
If Gretech wins this, after a year or so, Blizzard can now leave gretech and get money straight from kespa and they can charge more and more until there isn't going to be PL. Think about it, If the rights are "recognized" then any game developer that has its product being used in Televised E-sports can charge big money for it. Making it very hard to organize leagues. Even if the leagues will continue, there will be cost cutting from the organizers until its dead. Both in Korea and in Abroad, because Blizzard is an american company.
what im saying that if gretech wins, it will be hard to have organized televised e-sports around the world.
If Kespa wins, then its all back to normal with steady progression. Outside korea, there are tons of SC2 tournaments. And with luck, foreign companies outside korea can have an impression that e-sports is a great way to advertise their products using SC2 tournaments to appeal to young adults! and maybe, just maybe, they may even create their own leagues! i mean seriously Coca Cola, an Air Liner supported by its Country (Korean Air), Gilette, Pringles, Shinhan Bank. All of these were companies were at one time or are still supporting, sponsoring leagues for games. and the current team in proleague doesn't have puny sponsor (not anymore)
also about people saying about "blizzard must get payed because its their product blah blah blah". No shit! kespa did a favor for them in BW. what im trying to say is that if blizzard isn't gonna get payed, its not like they are in the most losing end of the stick, their titles are being advertised every time flash drink his pocari sweat while raping jaedong using one hand. and about them being a being money whores because they are a company like every other company, who gives a shit? its not like anyone here has any stakes in blizzard if they lose money, but if you really think about it, they aren't LOSING MONEY.
people tend to think that this is just about SC2 and BW and about these two titles being the better game. Who the fuck cares? if blizzard wins, and kespa loses then there wont be leagues, and all you will see are a bunch of amateurs with a handful of gosus duking it out for a prize money that can amount to the salary they could get from a sponsored team if they are good enough.
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On October 18 2010 06:12 hydraden wrote:
Why isn't this negotiation done when both sides have their own lawyers?
3rd party lawyers is so fishy.
Are you suggesting that throughout all the negotiations no one brought their own lawyers? This has nothing to do with adding lawyers to a negotiation, it's about adding a hopefully impartial third party lawyer. In this case Blizzard will be looking for a highly competent IP rights lawyer with previous case experience. Since they do own the rights to their own games, and their terms are generous in excess only a complete muppet would allow the negotiations to not favour blizzard.
It's worth noting that until a few days ago Blizzard and Gretech had been respecting a non-disclosure agreement that must clearly have been voided by the constant remarks from Kespa leaks and direct statements, that have served rather well for Kespa in making the BW scene somewhat hostile towards Blizzard/Gretech.
What better way to save Brood War than with an arbiter?
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Estonia4504 Posts
On October 18 2010 12:57 everstarleague wrote:
fewer people playing sc2 now...
Source? Even though I'm the most avid BW supporter, that's sad to hear.
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On October 18 2010 15:15 ComusLoM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2010 06:12 hydraden wrote:
Why isn't this negotiation done when both sides have their own lawyers?
3rd party lawyers is so fishy.
Are you suggesting that throughout all the negotiations no one brought their own lawyers? This has nothing to do with adding lawyers to a negotiation, it's about adding a hopefully impartial third party lawyer. In this case Blizzard will be looking for a highly competent IP rights lawyer with previous case experience. Since they do own the rights to their own games, and their terms are generous in excess only a complete muppet would allow the negotiations to not favour blizzard. It's worth noting that until a few days ago Blizzard and Gretech had been respecting a non-disclosure agreement that must clearly have been voided by the constant remarks from Kespa leaks and direct statements, that have served rather well for Kespa in making the BW scene somewhat hostile towards Blizzard/Gretech. What better way to save Brood War than with an arbiter?
Seems feasible seeing as how all the negotiations cosisted of were angry flame mail at each other lulz..
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for those saying it's unfair for blizzard to determine the IP rights lawyer, remember that it is KesPA who is performing the illegal actions here. The IP belongs to blizzard, that is already a fact, that is not something we have yet to determine. Starcraft belongs to blizzard. KesPA are the ones earning money off of blizzards product without properly respecting their IP rights.
Blizzard is not in the wrong to request the lawyer, it is their position to do so.
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On October 18 2010 16:22 Nu11 wrote:
for those saying it's unfair for blizzard to determine the IP rights lawyer, remember that it is KesPA who is performing the illegal actions here. The IP belongs to blizzard, that is already a fact, that is not something we have yet to determine. Starcraft belongs to blizzard. KesPA are the ones earning money off of blizzards product without properly respecting their IP rights.
Blizzard is not in the wrong to request the lawyer, it is their position to do so.
How many times does this have to be explained.
Kespa is not for profit, the money they charged for the first time in 2007 was to be put back into the leagues. I repeat, they are a NOT FOR PROFIT organisation, theres no dividends to shareholders here.
Also, you are under the assumption they are doign something illegal. Whats illegal? They offered to pay for licensing a long long time ago. It was the other terms that they didn't want to agree to. Blizzard wanted total control over all the leagues, they even went as far as to demand that all pro gamers sign with Blizzard in a contract that can override Kespa's contract.
Kespa builds a league untouched by blizzard until 2007 and then blizzard comes in and tries to capitalize on their hard work. Yes kespa should pay for licensing which they showed willingness for ages ago. Blizzard wanted total control over the leagues and the broadcasting.
"properly respecting ip rights" - this doesn't define how far it should go. Everyone knows they should pay a licensing fee, but does blizzard own every video, every league, every team automatically? hell no, they had no right coming in after almost a decade and deciding that they own the whole lot.
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On October 18 2010 15:13 aimaimaim wrote:I don't think people realize that right now its not about the money but about recognizing the IP rights of the game developer. The way I see it: If Gretech wins this, after a year or so, Blizzard can now leave gretech and get money straight from kespa and they can charge more and more until there isn't going to be PL. Think about it, If the rights are "recognized" then any game developer that has its product being used in Televised E-sports can charge big money for it. Making it very hard to organize leagues. Even if the leagues will continue, there will be cost cutting from the organizers until its dead. Both in Korea and in Abroad, because Blizzard is an american company. what im saying that if gretech wins, it will be hard to have organized televised e-sports around the world. If Kespa wins, then its all back to normal with steady progression. Outside korea, there are tons of SC2 tournaments. And with luck, foreign companies outside korea can have an impression that e-sports is a great way to advertise their products using SC2 tournaments to appeal to young adults! and maybe, just maybe, they may even create their own leagues! i mean seriously Coca Cola, an Air Liner supported by its Country (Korean Air), Gilette, Pringles, Shinhan Bank. All of these were companies were at one time or are still supporting, sponsoring leagues for games. and the current team in proleague doesn't have puny sponsor (not anymore ) also about people saying about "blizzard must get payed because its their product blah blah blah". No shit! kespa did a favor for them in BW. what im trying to say is that if blizzard isn't gonna get payed, its not like they are in the most losing end of the stick, their titles are being advertised every time flash drink his pocari sweat while raping jaedong using one hand. and about them being a being money whores because they are a company like every other company, who gives a shit? its not like anyone here has any stakes in blizzard if they lose money, but if you really think about it, they aren't LOSING MONEY. people tend to think that this is just about SC2 and BW and about these two titles being the better game. Who the fuck cares? if blizzard wins, and kespa loses then there wont be leagues, and all you will see are a bunch of amateurs with a handful of gosus duking it out for a prize money that can amount to the salary they could get from a sponsored team if they are good enough.
I agree with most of your points that it could go in that direction.
But like you said Blizzard wants to earn the most money. So they need an E-Sports scene going on. If they kill the TV leagues then there won't be big money for them each tournament. So in that sense they can up the fees high but it will be less profit for them on the long term and profit is what they want so in other words if there's 1 thing they don't want then that is to make sure the Korean E-Sports scene is alive since that will make them most money on the long term.
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100,000,000 South Korean won = 89,373.5000 US dollars
Doesn't look that bad, one 30 sec ad spot in a month should pay for that easily? (total guess, idk)
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EPT
