Instead of this stupid supply depot requirement, just remove the reaper. There, 2v2 has been fixed, without affecting 1v1.

I play Zerg, and these T changes just sound retarded.

s.a.y

Croatia3840 Posts

October 07 2010 16:38 GMT

#102

I think the changes are great except for supply before rax.

and i say that from protoss perspective.

Piski

Finland3461 Posts

October 07 2010 16:38 GMT

#103

This is huge changes :O
They also completely killed reapers ^^

Supply before rax seems weird but I like the zerg changes.

TBO

Germany1350 Posts

October 07 2010 16:38 GMT

#104

Supply depot needed before barracks is really not a good idea. there is lots of non all-in pressure builds which would be all obsolete with that change. Its like saying you need to build an overlord before pool to prevent 6 pool...

I mean even if those builds are not played usually the whole existence of that possibility keeps the zerg honest, if you remove it he can go totally wild with his opening.

If the roach range increase is from 3 to 3.5, its probably okay, if it is from 3 to 4 it might be too much.

Fungal growth on Blink is a most welcome change.

Instead of demanding factory for reaper speed it should just cost 100/100 again and have a longer build time.

Pekkz

Norway1505 Posts

October 07 2010 16:39 GMT

#105

On October 08 2010 01:29 Chronicle wrote:
Ok so increasing roach range helps them vs reapers fair enough but why not nerf the reaper range instead? Why do roaches need the extra range, they are good as they are. Now now only are Protoss going to be kited by them all day long it will mean that they will be able to hit cannons 1 space away from Protoss walls, which will make Mass roach really really hard to stop. As for the terran barracks requiring a depo it is pretty silly. Would rather that the Nexus gave off a power field so Protoss has the option of skipping pylons and are not instantly screwed the second their first is sniped.

Overall at least blizzard is "trying" this time, but they still are not hitting the mark.

You cant cannon zerg inn and fast expo anymore? Sad day for you. Zerg had no good options to be agressive cus everyone just walled off. Now we can harass a player who gets too greedy, and thats gonna be sweet.

And no, roaches where not good as they are. They where OK in many situations, but protoss and terran could basicly make any composition and they worked fine against roaches. Now you may actually have to get more then a couple immortals to counter them, and thats gonna be legendary.

Chylo

United States220 Posts

October 07 2010 16:39 GMT

#106

Very impressive that the Koreans called the most imbalanced matchup from a high level point of view correctly - ZvP.

Zeroes

United States1102 Posts

October 07 2010 16:39 GMT

#107

lol @ win ratios you aren't going to see anything other than 50% anyway

Treva

United States535 Posts

October 07 2010 16:39 GMT

#108

The supply depot for rax is pretty much the nail in the coffin for reaper use. The only way I would use it now would be for a delay scout and making the reaper speed upgrade require a factory is just ridiculous seeing that speedlings could already beat reapers off creep even with the speed upgrade, it's going to make them non useful at all. Now Terran will have no choice but to FE against zerg as well seeing as every zerg will open 14 hatch from now on and we won't be able to apply the pressure we need with reapers anymore. Oh well hopefully now I'll be able to touch the bottom of zerg tear lake.

Uhh Negative

United States1090 Posts

October 07 2010 16:39 GMT

#109

On October 08 2010 01:36 sith wrote:
I'm toss but I think the Fungal buff is justified. When you get something like 25+ stalkers it's very very easy to run circles around zerg units/bases and just blink away whenever there is trouble. Hopefully they can get in a Fungal/ling surround now because it just wasn't happening before.

Welcome nerfs to reapers though. Even as toss early reaper pushes were annoying as fuck if the T had ANY micro.

I didn't even know fungal didn't stop stalkers from blinking before. It seemed like a no-brainer that it should've been like that from the beginning. So right now when stalkers blink away after being fungal growthed they even avoid the damage from fungal? And they can move too?

I think this patch will affect ZvZ as well as roaches become stronger. I like this change because I open roaches in zvz every game.

On October 08 2010 01:39 Zeroes wrote:
lol @ win ratios you aren't going to see anything other than 50% anyway

Read the blog post -_-

Tankbusta

United States109 Posts

October 07 2010 16:40 GMT

#110

The barracks change, we'll have to see how that really impacts the game.

How bad the reaper is now is still an interesting question. I hope this leads to some strong revisions of the unit in the coming months. The question now is whether the Reaper will forever be a gimmick/raid unit, or if it can become a useful component to the Terran army. Maybe they should try and rework it so that it becomes a good raiding and flanking unit. I'm guessing that would either take stim or a range increase.

Rhyme

United States1069 Posts

October 07 2010 16:40 GMT

#111

I really don't think the supply depot change is bad. It doesn't affect a standard build, but squashes cheese.

It's especially fair when you think about how protoss needs a pylon before gateway, and zerg can't proxy at all.

RinconH

United States512 Posts

October 07 2010 16:40 GMT

#112

Nice to see the statistics and roach range increase is good for Z but I don't like limiting Terran options (no rax b4 depot).

Terran race has the most options... the other races options should be increased rather than Terran increased.

Woony

Germany6657 Posts

October 07 2010 16:40 GMT

#113

On October 08 2010 01:38 CidO wrote:
Very much happy about the roach range, as long as it's 5+ and not a increase from 3->4 I will be happy. I don't agree though with the double nerf of barracks/reaper. I think such a radical change to reapers is why I'm a little shocked, compared to blizzard in 1.1 wanting to just adjust build times by 5 seconds, a complete 180 of what they said they were trying to do.

Show nested quote +

-Blizz
Hopefully this time there will be more than what is listed here, and I am glad they recognize to focus on buffing zerg as opposed to nerfing the other two races.

They said they also want to balance team games and even though the reaper wasn't that much of an big deal in 1v1 anymore, it was grossly strong in team games. And 5+ Roaches seem hugely overpowered. an buff to range 4 would be far enough.

eloist

United States1017 Posts

October 07 2010 16:41 GMT

#114

The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes.

This is BS. Means I can't do a barracks->orbital command fast expand anymore which has nothing to do with reapers.

MrBitter

United States2940 Posts

October 07 2010 16:41 GMT

#115

I dunno... A reaper in a bunker will still be pretty deadly. I can see building one reaper if you're 3 raxing just to poke a bit.

Clearout

Norway1060 Posts

October 07 2010 16:41 GMT

#116

On October 08 2010 01:34 Reborn58 wrote:
Does anyone else find it strange looking at the numbers that zerg is winning ~50%, if not more in most scenarios and yet they are the one getting the upgrade? High level play is basically even between the 3 races and yet they are changing things to cater to the players who can't stop a friggen 4 gate?

I think they should be balancing towards those who actually know how to play the game so that those who don't actually have to learn.

Zerg is winning 50% comparative to skill, yet if zerg is a lot harder to play, is not their skill actually higher? Also regarding high level players, I believe it is the general consensus that zerg is weaker. Then you also take into account that zerg is played a lot less (which may be because zerg is weaker, harder to play or have less options or maps are bad etc.). Zerg is played 10% less than the optimum actually.

But you do however have a point, though it is more relevant regarding PvX. If this actually is a problem I dont know so I wont comment on that.

cHaNg-sTa

United States1058 Posts

October 07 2010 16:41 GMT

#117

Ok, the nitro boost pack needing a factory prereq I can understand, but requiring depot before rax? That's just plain stupid. You don't balance a unit by changing build orders. That's like saying pool requires you to have at least 10 drones.

Djeez

543 Posts

October 07 2010 16:41 GMT

#118

I don't understand why people say the supply before rax ''forces'' terran to fast expand. Maybe it's just me, but 80% of the terran build I witness do NOT fast expand and do NOT make a barracks before the depot.