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On October 08 2010 01:41 Mooncat wrote:
Zerg is perfectly fine after 1.1 imho. Almost all of these changes are absolutely ridiculous and I sincerely hope they aren't implemented. Further weakening reapers is the most pointless and stupid change they could make. Ever. Reapers are barely useful as it is in ANY matchup except for scouting purposes.
The only somewhat reasonable changes are fungal preventing blink and Zerg structure HP, but tbh only because I really don't see that affecting the game much.(the HP, not the fungal/blink thing obviously)
I agree that Zerg could use a little more flexibility, but not by simply buffing certain units. Roaches are neither useless nor underused by far and they're also very strong considering their price. Zerg altogether is pretty damn strong post patch, it's just that people find the defend, expand, defend, harass, expand, defend, expand, kill style of play pretty boring.
Reapers are an awful design to begin with and they demolish teamgames, so why just not get rid of it? And a buff to Roaches is a buff in flexibility because it makes lots of roaches more riable in mid and lategame.
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Imo its stupid to buff Zerg for mid to lategame. This is exactly wheree Zerg is strong?!?!
Also, supply depot as requirement for Rax? cant be serious?!
Roach range... dont know. We'll see...
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On October 08 2010 01:21 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes. This is stupid.
Indeed it is. Cheesy builds are part of the game and even the metagame in its literal meaning (as in above, beyond the game). It can affect the opponent in a BOX series. I don't know why they would do that.
Not to be a dick, but Blizzard sometimes surprise me with their stupidness
And note that I am a zerg player...
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This is retarded imo.
Seriously, even as a zerg player I think some of these are pretty stupid.
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United States17042 Posts
reapers are going to have a hard time finding a place. I guess I believe in the abilities of boxer/the next boxer to provide them a place in terms of a light harass unit that can cliff jump. They might need different maps to be effective as well.
Supply before rax now required is going to limit the BO's that T can do in a large part. They can no longer rush properly, which is pretty funny - cuts out much of the proxy play/cute things that T used to be able to do. As a P player I guess i'm a fan, but it's kind of dumb in terms of competitive play. It might be a drastic enough change so that T is stuck not being able to pull off cheesy builds altogether.
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this is also going to make toss cannon fe on blistering sands not worth it since cannons are 1 rang away
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On October 08 2010 01:42 Bitters wrote:
so wait, why are people saying 5RR is dead if the only change affecting that build would be better range for the rushed units? am I missing something here?
5 rax reaper, not 5 roach rush.
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Who wants to bet the idiotic depot requirement is for something irrelevant like balancing double reaper rushes in 2v2?
The only change I like here is that fungal stops blink. THAT is a good idea.
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Sweden33723 Posts
WHAT. THE. FUCK?
Fuck my life, all hellion and reaper builds just died?
So this leaves what, camp like a whore for 30 minutes with planetary fortresses? Fun times.
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Add me as a zerg who thinks the SD before Rax is stupid.
Please balance around 1v1 Blizzard.
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On October 08 2010 01:39 Pekkz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 01:29 Chronicle wrote:
Ok so increasing roach range helps them vs reapers fair enough but why not nerf the reaper range instead? Why do roaches need the extra range, they are good as they are. Now now only are Protoss going to be kited by them all day long it will mean that they will be able to hit cannons 1 space away from Protoss walls, which will make Mass roach really really hard to stop. As for the terran barracks requiring a depo it is pretty silly. Would rather that the Nexus gave off a power field so Protoss has the option of skipping pylons and are not instantly screwed the second their first is sniped.
Overall at least blizzard is "trying" this time, but they still are not hitting the mark. You cant cannon zerg inn and fast expo anymore? Sad day for you. Zerg had no good options to be agressive cus everyone just walled off. Now we can harass a player who gets too greedy, and thats gonna be sweet. And no, roaches where not good as they are. They where OK in many situations, but protoss and terran could basicly make any composition and they worked fine against roaches. Now you may actually have to get more then a couple immortals to counter them, and thats gonna be legendary.
Learn 2 Read - No-one mentioned about cannoning in the Zerg. The topic is cannoning OUT the Zerg, something that will no longer be possible if the roachs can not only tank the cannons but hit them behind walls. And if you think for 1 moment that roaches are a bad unit atm then you are one of the few.
Giving Protoss no defensive options vs Fast roaches will leave Protoss in the same boat Zerg are in now vs Fast reaper - IE Totally fucked.
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I'm not complaining, but if they wanted to weaken Reapers, wouldn't the Roach range increase have been enough? It seems to me that if Reapers were unable to micro against Roaches, they'd have a pretty small window of usefulness in TvZ (as they do in TvP). I dunno why they're weakening them in a bunch of different ways at once.
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On October 08 2010 01:43 MrBitter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 01:41 Djeez wrote:
I don't understand why people say the supply before rax ''forces'' terran to fast expand. Maybe it's just me, but 80% of the terran build I witness do NOT fast expand and do NOT make a barracks before the depot. 14 hatch is hard countered by rax first. If T can't rax first, Z can 14 hatch every game. If T knows Z is going to 14 hatch, and that he can't punish it with aggression, his best response is to FE also.
Is there a timing window where terran can attack from one-base before zerg gets enough units or infestors out? Sorta like broodwar before terrans figured out how to fast expand and still defend mutas.
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Reapers will still see some use, because they're built out of the same tech path as Marauders (which everyone builds in every matchup), and they're terrific scouts, good for map control, and very good at punishing Zerg when they're spread out all over the map.
Mass reapers are lame. A few reapers a game is more than enough, IMo. They should be a specialty unit, one who fills some specific purposes, but not something that just gets spammed en masse.
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Zerg's buff I quite agree with but to be honest I would like to see Hydralisk's speed buff more than Roach's range buff.
I don't really think (or hope that) the Barrack's change will make it out in the final patch. Although I could live with it, it would make Terran too rigid and could worsen the fun of the game as a spectator sport. I think throwing out cheese sometimes make the game fun to watch but I guess maybe people attempt cheesing too much 
Reaper's nerf is over-nerfing in my opinion. I think if you want speed to finish slower, increasing the upgrade time is better. When T reaches tier 2 tech, most people don't bother build reapers anymore, and without speed, reapers are just too fragile and slow (against speedling) to be used. Balancing reapers based on Team Game is not a good choice for me.
All in all, I wish the patch note is not a final one. Hope Blizz would reconsider some changes and make better ones.
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On October 08 2010 01:46 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
WHAT. THE. FUCK?
Fuck my life, all hellion and reaper builds just died?
So this leaves what, camp like a whore for 30 minutes with planetary fortresses? Fun times.
Wait. What?
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love the zerg changes - especially fungal stopping blink!
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i think depo before barracks is too drastic...no more bbs???
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Supply depot before rax + factory needed for reaper speed. lol because everyone uses tons of reapers mid to lategame.
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Kiwikaki's blink micro too imba, they nerfed it @@
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EPT
