• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:39
CET 16:39
KST 00:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation12Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BW General Discussion What happened to TvZ on Retro? Brood War web app to calculate unit interactions [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2264 users

Blizzard on 1v1 Balancing and the new patch - Page 7

Forum Index > Community News and Headlines
1732 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 87 Next
Pekkz
Profile Joined June 2009
Norway1505 Posts
October 07 2010 16:41 GMT
#121
On October 08 2010 01:30 PaD wrote:
They should just get rid of the reapers in that case. They wont ever be used anymore with that kind of nerf, some of the changes are even that good except the roach probably.

How are reapers even gonna compete in mid game since early is a no go for them and increased roach range will just crush them !


Games where people mass reapers are never fun to watch, im really glad their gonna be shit now.

They are still gonna be good to scout with, so their not totally useless.
Mooncat
Profile Joined October 2007
Germany1228 Posts
October 07 2010 16:41 GMT
#122
Zerg is perfectly fine after 1.1 imho. Almost all of these changes are absolutely ridiculous and I sincerely hope they aren't implemented. Further weakening reapers is the most pointless and stupid change they could make. Ever. Reapers are barely useful as it is in ANY matchup except for scouting purposes.

The only somewhat reasonable changes are fungal preventing blink and Zerg structure HP, but tbh only because I really don't see that affecting the game much.(the HP, not the fungal/blink thing obviously)

I agree that Zerg could use a little more flexibility, but not by simply buffing certain units. Roaches are neither useless nor underused by far and they're also very strong considering their price. Zerg altogether is pretty damn strong post patch, it's just that people find the defend, expand, defend, harass, expand, defend, expand, kill style of play pretty boring.
"[Lee Young Ho] With this victory, you’ve risen to Bonjwa status."
yoshi_yoshi
Profile Joined January 2010
United States440 Posts
October 07 2010 16:41 GMT
#123
Supply before rax just feels wrong. Makes game less interesting.
Raevin
Profile Joined July 2010
246 Posts
October 07 2010 16:42 GMT
#124
Now where is that Fake Idra-Dancing-In-The-Club video we had a month ago? =)
Bitters
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada303 Posts
October 07 2010 16:42 GMT
#125
so wait, why are people saying 5RR is dead if the only change affecting that build would be better range for the rushed units? am I missing something here?
SKtheAnathema
Profile Joined September 2010
United States885 Posts
October 07 2010 16:42 GMT
#126
changes to roach and reaper make sense. the problem was even if T told Z he was going reaper harass, it was still a bitch to defend it. now if you counter it, you actually counter it
DarkspearTribe
Profile Joined August 2010
568 Posts
October 07 2010 16:42 GMT
#127
WAIT WAIT WAIT

The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes.

Don't like this. I know reapers are bullshit and stuff like this, but making terran work like protoss is just... =/
The reaper speed upgrade will require the Factory, which is meant to weaken a lot of the early terran reaper attacks that dominate so many matches, especially in team games.

dude you guys made reapers take FOREVER to build now this? Another "meh"

I still have faith in you blizzard =| Hope this goes okay
Seam
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1093 Posts
October 07 2010 16:43 GMT
#128
On October 08 2010 01:35 Wolf wrote:
This patch makes me want to quit StarCraft II. These changes aren't bad. They're ridiclous.

I can't believe these arbitrary things are being introduced because of numbers. Cannot believe it.


Wait, then what are they supposed to change by?

If not numbers than what? Go by whichever race gets the most whine?
I only needed one probe to take down idra. I had to upgrade to a zealot for strelok. - Liquid`Tyler
theqat
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States2856 Posts
October 07 2010 16:43 GMT
#129
On October 08 2010 01:40 RinconH wrote:
Nice to see the statistics and roach range increase is good for Z but I don't like limiting Terran options (no rax b4 depot).

Terran race has the most options... the other races options should be increased rather than Terran increased.


No, that would make the game worse because the whole problem with ZvT is that Terran has so many options that it's nearly impossible to scout correctly. We don't need every matchup to have that problem. Scouting well should be rewarded well.
Irrational_Animal
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1059 Posts
October 07 2010 16:43 GMT
#130
Well it looks like roaches are becoming the core unit of the Zerg, with infestors, spedlings, blings or mutas as context dependent additions. Expanding is going to be safer and there is a better protection for buildings against marine-/marauder-drops. This will help Zerg to get into the game and I guess we all can agree that a 3 base Zerg is a very strong race.
theBullFrog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States515 Posts
October 07 2010 16:43 GMT
#131
Give me roach range tomorrow and i'll be happier than a pig in dead reapers. the rax require a depot and factory to get boost is un-needed imo. roach range will fix alot imo.
thebullfrog
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
October 07 2010 16:43 GMT
#132
On October 08 2010 01:41 Djeez wrote:
I don't understand why people say the supply before rax ''forces'' terran to fast expand. Maybe it's just me, but 80% of the terran build I witness do NOT fast expand and do NOT make a barracks before the depot.


14 hatch is hard countered by rax first.

If T can't rax first, Z can 14 hatch every game.

If T knows Z is going to 14 hatch, and that he can't punish it with aggression, his best response is to FE also.
Bleb
Profile Joined August 2010
Croatia278 Posts
October 07 2010 16:43 GMT
#133
On October 08 2010 01:42 Bitters wrote:
so wait, why are people saying 5RR is dead if the only change affecting that build would be better range for the rushed units? am I missing something here?


5rr = 5 rax reapers
now roaches will counter them a lot better and you'd lack speed upgrade
Arakash
Profile Joined March 2009
Germany124 Posts
October 07 2010 16:43 GMT
#134
they should have increased the Queens Ground range and speed(on creep) imo. would also make defending against hellions and reapers easier without really changing too much...
atenthirtyone
Profile Joined May 2010
United States88 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-07 16:44:13
October 07 2010 16:43 GMT
#135
Terran can keep their reaper speed upgrade (without factory requirement). I have roaches that have more range to not get kited as badly. :3
Kiante
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7069 Posts
October 07 2010 16:43 GMT
#136
They say that zerg is less fun than the other races, so they make terran less fun to play.

Lol gw blizzard.

seriously tho, TVT is gonna be shit boring now. Theres no option to do some early proxy rax or whatever with the depot before rax nerf...i guess i wont need to scout tho so i can spam as hard as possible in the early game!
Writer
Meta
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States6225 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-07 16:45:45
October 07 2010 16:43 GMT
#137
The zerg changes are awesome but depot required for rax is retarded. In multiplayer I pretty much always 9rax to prevent cheese. This pretty much forces terran to 10 supply 12 rax every single game, I think it could make them vulnerable to super early cheese on the shitty mutliplayer maps with wide ramps.

The reaper speed upgrade was already easily the worst upgrade at the rax tech lab, I highly doubt we'll ever see it in high level play anymore. The best time for reapers were after speed finished but before lair tech, and now that gap is going to get a lot smaller.

But frankly I don't care at all about the reaper, it's a stupid gimmicky unit and Blizzard would be better off removing them from the game entirely at this point. They were OP in the first 5 minutes of the game, and now it's going to take longer than that to even get 3 with speed. Completely useless unless you're facing noobs at this point. I highly doubt we'll ever see more than a single reaper in professional play anymore, and we definitely won't ever see speed researched again. Depot before rax adds to this.

Zerg 14 hatch at natural should become standard in TvZ immediately after this patch. Possibly even hatch hatch before gas.
good vibes only
bokchoi
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Korea (South)9498 Posts
October 07 2010 16:44 GMT
#138
Posted this in the other thread because I didn't see this one:

I don't know if I agree with the supply->barracks change. I guess it makes Terran similar to Protoss as Protoss requires a pylon to build a gateway onto, but not necessarily required to build. It'll definitely force Terrans into more standard play seeing as they won't be able to rax first into reaper or proxy rax. Moving Nitro Packs to Factory, is gonna make Reapers useless. Depending on how much they increase the Roach range it can be great to game-breaking. Also, I guess fungal growth should've always stopped blink, but you don't really see infestors vs Protoss.

As someone also mentioned in that thread, BBS is dead. Also, I feel like Terran will now be vulnerable to 6pool/9pool rushes. I feel like Blizzard went from not enough balancing to overbalancing (once again). I don't think this will be good for the game.

DennyR
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany379 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-07 16:51:54
October 07 2010 16:44 GMT
#139
wow, it was a good decision to switch to zerg a few weeks ago!
Uhh Negative
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1090 Posts
October 07 2010 16:44 GMT
#140
On October 08 2010 01:41 Toadily wrote:
LOL @ the supply depo change, next thing you know it'll be 2 overlords required before you can build a pool xD

Or pylon before gateway.... oh wait....
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 87 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 21m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 410
mcanning 56
Reynor 45
LamboSC2 34
MindelVK 4
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 34398
Rain 3368
Horang2 1448
actioN 1141
Jaedong 1053
Shuttle 470
Stork 462
EffOrt 286
firebathero 239
PianO 164
[ Show more ]
Barracks 120
Leta 108
ggaemo 95
Shinee 93
LaStScan 91
Hyun 82
Shine 49
JYJ48
Rock 36
Mong 32
Movie 22
Bale 22
ToSsGirL 21
soO 17
zelot 14
HiyA 11
Oystein6
Dota 2
Gorgc6087
qojqva1816
Dendi1073
XcaliburYe142
LuMiX0
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor253
Liquid`Hasu55
Other Games
B2W.Neo2154
Hui .339
Lowko330
DeMusliM292
Fuzer 191
Mlord81
febbydoto7
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream10918
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream1919
Other Games
EGCTV509
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 58
• HeavenSC 20
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1456
• Ler61
League of Legends
• Nemesis3331
Other Games
• WagamamaTV280
Upcoming Events
IPSL
1h 21m
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
OSC
3h 21m
BSL 21
4h 21m
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
18h 21m
RSL Revival
18h 21m
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
20h 21m
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs TBD
WardiTV Korean Royale
20h 21m
BSL 21
1d 4h
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
1d 4h
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
1d 7h
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
1d 20h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
BSL: GosuLeague
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
BSL: GosuLeague
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-14
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.