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On October 08 2010 01:30 PaD wrote:
They should just get rid of the reapers in that case. They wont ever be used anymore with that kind of nerf, some of the changes are even that good except the roach probably.
How are reapers even gonna compete in mid game since early is a no go for them and increased roach range will just crush them !
Games where people mass reapers are never fun to watch, im really glad their gonna be shit now.
They are still gonna be good to scout with, so their not totally useless.
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Zerg is perfectly fine after 1.1 imho. Almost all of these changes are absolutely ridiculous and I sincerely hope they aren't implemented. Further weakening reapers is the most pointless and stupid change they could make. Ever. Reapers are barely useful as it is in ANY matchup except for scouting purposes.
The only somewhat reasonable changes are fungal preventing blink and Zerg structure HP, but tbh only because I really don't see that affecting the game much.(the HP, not the fungal/blink thing obviously)
I agree that Zerg could use a little more flexibility, but not by simply buffing certain units. Roaches are neither useless nor underused by far and they're also very strong considering their price. Zerg altogether is pretty damn strong post patch, it's just that people find the defend, expand, defend, harass, expand, defend, expand, kill style of play pretty boring.
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Supply before rax just feels wrong. Makes game less interesting.
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Now where is that Fake Idra-Dancing-In-The-Club video we had a month ago? =)
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so wait, why are people saying 5RR is dead if the only change affecting that build would be better range for the rushed units? am I missing something here?
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changes to roach and reaper make sense. the problem was even if T told Z he was going reaper harass, it was still a bitch to defend it. now if you counter it, you actually counter it
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WAIT WAIT WAIT
The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes.
Don't like this. I know reapers are bullshit and stuff like this, but making terran work like protoss is just... =/
The reaper speed upgrade will require the Factory, which is meant to weaken a lot of the early terran reaper attacks that dominate so many matches, especially in team games.
dude you guys made reapers take FOREVER to build now this? Another "meh"
I still have faith in you blizzard =| Hope this goes okay
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On October 08 2010 01:35 Wolf wrote:
This patch makes me want to quit StarCraft II. These changes aren't bad. They're ridiclous.
I can't believe these arbitrary things are being introduced because of numbers. Cannot believe it.
Wait, then what are they supposed to change by?
If not numbers than what? Go by whichever race gets the most whine?
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On October 08 2010 01:40 RinconH wrote:
Nice to see the statistics and roach range increase is good for Z but I don't like limiting Terran options (no rax b4 depot).
Terran race has the most options... the other races options should be increased rather than Terran increased.
No, that would make the game worse because the whole problem with ZvT is that Terran has so many options that it's nearly impossible to scout correctly. We don't need every matchup to have that problem. Scouting well should be rewarded well.
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Germany1059 Posts
Well it looks like roaches are becoming the core unit of the Zerg, with infestors, spedlings, blings or mutas as context dependent additions. Expanding is going to be safer and there is a better protection for buildings against marine-/marauder-drops. This will help Zerg to get into the game and I guess we all can agree that a 3 base Zerg is a very strong race.
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Give me roach range tomorrow and i'll be happier than a pig in dead reapers. the rax require a depot and factory to get boost is un-needed imo. roach range will fix alot imo.
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On October 08 2010 01:41 Djeez wrote:
I don't understand why people say the supply before rax ''forces'' terran to fast expand. Maybe it's just me, but 80% of the terran build I witness do NOT fast expand and do NOT make a barracks before the depot.
14 hatch is hard countered by rax first.
If T can't rax first, Z can 14 hatch every game.
If T knows Z is going to 14 hatch, and that he can't punish it with aggression, his best response is to FE also.
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On October 08 2010 01:42 Bitters wrote:
so wait, why are people saying 5RR is dead if the only change affecting that build would be better range for the rushed units? am I missing something here?
5rr = 5 rax reapers
now roaches will counter them a lot better and you'd lack speed upgrade
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they should have increased the Queens Ground range and speed(on creep) imo. would also make defending against hellions and reapers easier without really changing too much...
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Terran can keep their reaper speed upgrade (without factory requirement). I have roaches that have more range to not get kited as badly. :3
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Australia7069 Posts
They say that zerg is less fun than the other races, so they make terran less fun to play.
Lol gw blizzard.
seriously tho, TVT is gonna be shit boring now. Theres no option to do some early proxy rax or whatever with the depot before rax nerf...i guess i wont need to scout tho so i can spam as hard as possible in the early game!
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The zerg changes are awesome but depot required for rax is retarded. In multiplayer I pretty much always 9rax to prevent cheese. This pretty much forces terran to 10 supply 12 rax every single game, I think it could make them vulnerable to super early cheese on the shitty mutliplayer maps with wide ramps.
The reaper speed upgrade was already easily the worst upgrade at the rax tech lab, I highly doubt we'll ever see it in high level play anymore. The best time for reapers were after speed finished but before lair tech, and now that gap is going to get a lot smaller.
But frankly I don't care at all about the reaper, it's a stupid gimmicky unit and Blizzard would be better off removing them from the game entirely at this point. They were OP in the first 5 minutes of the game, and now it's going to take longer than that to even get 3 with speed. Completely useless unless you're facing noobs at this point. I highly doubt we'll ever see more than a single reaper in professional play anymore, and we definitely won't ever see speed researched again. Depot before rax adds to this.
Zerg 14 hatch at natural should become standard in TvZ immediately after this patch. Possibly even hatch hatch before gas.
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Posted this in the other thread because I didn't see this one:
I don't know if I agree with the supply->barracks change. I guess it makes Terran similar to Protoss as Protoss requires a pylon to build a gateway onto, but not necessarily required to build. It'll definitely force Terrans into more standard play seeing as they won't be able to rax first into reaper or proxy rax. Moving Nitro Packs to Factory, is gonna make Reapers useless. Depending on how much they increase the Roach range it can be great to game-breaking. Also, I guess fungal growth should've always stopped blink, but you don't really see infestors vs Protoss.
As someone also mentioned in that thread, BBS is dead. Also, I feel like Terran will now be vulnerable to 6pool/9pool rushes. I feel like Blizzard went from not enough balancing to overbalancing (once again). I don't think this will be good for the game.
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wow, it was a good decision to switch to zerg a few weeks ago! 
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On October 08 2010 01:41 Toadily wrote:
LOL @ the supply depo change, next thing you know it'll be 2 overlords required before you can build a pool xD
Or pylon before gateway.... oh wait....
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EPT
