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Blizzard on 1v1 Balancing and the new patch - Page 9

Forum Index > Community News and Headlines
1732 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 87 Next
edwin23
Profile Joined August 2010
13 Posts
October 07 2010 16:47 GMT
#161
So how does terran stop a 6pool in close positions now?
eloist
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1017 Posts
October 07 2010 16:47 GMT
#162
On October 08 2010 01:41 Djeez wrote:
I don't understand why people say the supply before rax ''forces'' terran to fast expand. Maybe it's just me, but 80% of the terran build I witness do NOT fast expand and do NOT make a barracks before the depot.

I do and I use it to fast expand. Imagine that!
Raevin
Profile Joined July 2010
246 Posts
October 07 2010 16:48 GMT
#163
Hellions will be fine? No change there from what i see
Angelbelow
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3728 Posts
October 07 2010 16:48 GMT
#164
On October 08 2010 01:22 Bommes wrote:
If they buff Zerg building HP they should also fix assimilator HP. Seriously, is there any good reason why protoss gas almost doubles Zerg and Terran gas HP? It's SO annoying.

Good changes though from my point of view. The supply depot requirement for Rax is kinda lame though because it will reduce the only terran opening structures to 10 depot 12 rax without the possibility of 9 rax 10 depot and stuff like that, which is actually quite common.

But I don't mind, looking forward to these changes and what impact they will have.



well this one isnt too bad, i mean an extractor is only 25 minerals =p.

pretty cool buffs all around though. I personally dont think the supply depot required for a barracks is necessary, esp if theyre gonna make reaper speed a factory level upgrade. pretty interesting patch all around though, cant wait to see how it works out.
You may delay, but time will not. Current Music obsession: Opeth
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
October 07 2010 16:48 GMT
#165
On October 08 2010 01:46 Biochemist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 01:43 MrBitter wrote:
On October 08 2010 01:41 Djeez wrote:
I don't understand why people say the supply before rax ''forces'' terran to fast expand. Maybe it's just me, but 80% of the terran build I witness do NOT fast expand and do NOT make a barracks before the depot.


14 hatch is hard countered by rax first.

If T can't rax first, Z can 14 hatch every game.

If T knows Z is going to 14 hatch, and that he can't punish it with aggression, his best response is to FE also.


Is there a timing window where terran can attack from one-base before zerg gets enough units or infestors out? Sorta like broodwar before terrans figured out how to fast expand and still defend mutas.


Nobody knows, 'cuz Zerg hasn't gone 14 hatch vT since week 1 of beta. =)

I'm sure T will find some timing to abuse. Maybe 2 fac a la BW TvP.
TheTuna
Profile Joined August 2009
United States286 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-07 16:50:24
October 07 2010 16:48 GMT
#166
This is so win, I've been telling my friend for WEEKS that PvT isn't hard for protoss, it's even at worst. Fuck yeah.


I also would love to know why Assimilator HP is so much higher than Extractor or Refinery.
Piy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Scotland3152 Posts
October 07 2010 16:48 GMT
#167
This can't be real.

I struggle to believe the blink change with fungal growth, the depot rax thing and the factory reaper parts.
My. Copy. Is. Here.
Reborn58
Profile Joined August 2010
United States238 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-07 16:51:47
October 07 2010 16:48 GMT
#168

Zerg is winning 50% comparative to skill, yet if zerg is a lot harder to play, is not their skill actually higher? Also regarding high level players, I believe it is the general consensus that zerg is weaker. Then you also take into account that zerg is played a lot less (which may be because zerg is weaker, harder to play or have less options or maps are bad etc.). Zerg is played 10% less than the optimum actually.



Even at the highest levels there is a 50% win percentage for zerg, so this would lead you to believe that they are actually of the proper skill level for their division.

And they are played 10% less because they are harder to play - not because roach range is 3 or building health is too low. Implement things to make playing the race easier, not buffing them.
That's what she said
-_-
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States7081 Posts
October 07 2010 16:48 GMT
#169
At first glance, reapaers seem useless, but teamliquid shouldn't overreact. We don't understand the game yet. It's hard to argue that they're a useful supplement to a Terran's unit composition. However, I could see them being useful mid to late game in groups to harass, take down expansions, and take down buildings. For example, similar to void rays, you could proxy a barracks mid game, pump out reapers whenever you had spare minerals, then run in ten to torch a base.

Additionally, reapers are so terrain dependant I think maps could make them useful. Imagine if a second natural has a cliff directly behind a mineral line which is not accesible by land? Or if there was a map where you could only access an opponents with air units, dropships, or reapers (or clever warping of units through warpgates, or lifting off and landing buildings, or maybe there's a little choke which only zerglings and zealots and marines can fit through...)? It really comes down to the maps. As I think about them, I'm salivating.

I want some creative maps Blizzard. The map pool should be 50. At least.
leve15
Profile Joined August 2010
United States301 Posts
October 07 2010 16:48 GMT
#170
more balancing for 2v2. awesome

though I go 9/10 rax every game with terran, for the faster orbital, so i don't really like the supply before barracks on top of the other reaper nerfs, but w/e
Raevin
Profile Joined July 2010
246 Posts
October 07 2010 16:49 GMT
#171
So how does terran stop a 6pool in close positions now?


Same way Protoss does, you scout and start building a wall earlier
Wolf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)3290 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-07 20:28:49
October 07 2010 16:49 GMT
#172
--
Commentatorhttp://twitter.com/proxywolf
TL+ Member
gm.tOSS
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany898 Posts
October 07 2010 16:49 GMT
#173
Lets look at the upside of this: Guess we'll see Dario playing Zerg again.
HuK HuK HuK | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | There is death in the hane.
Chaosvuistje
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands2581 Posts
October 07 2010 16:50 GMT
#174
On October 08 2010 01:43 MrBitter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 01:41 Djeez wrote:
I don't understand why people say the supply before rax ''forces'' terran to fast expand. Maybe it's just me, but 80% of the terran build I witness do NOT fast expand and do NOT make a barracks before the depot.


14 hatch is hard countered by rax first.

If T can't rax first, Z can 14 hatch every game.

If T knows Z is going to 14 hatch, and that he can't punish it with aggression, his best response is to FE also.


=.=

Put a bunker there? You know? the thing that can be ... wait, bunker requires barracks =/ . Does the engineering bay require barracks? Ifnot I think thats the most sturdy building for its cost and if you can put it in the zergs natural he still has to go pool first.

I'm glad with the roach range increase. It was rather annoying to have dancing with the stars while I was attacking with my roach force. I'm super stoked to have zerg buildings health buffed.

Although reapers are going to be like, redundant now. Hellions do their job better at harrass and marauders did their job better at building sniping. Then again, I never really liked their design. It felt like a gimmicky cool unit.
Bitters
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada303 Posts
October 07 2010 16:50 GMT
#175
As a zerg, I'd like to see how the match up goes with only one of the proposed changes (roach range or supply before depot), but both could be overkill.
stafu
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia1196 Posts
October 07 2010 16:50 GMT
#176
The depot change is truly stupid, and honestly after over 10 years it feels like a very dirty change, even if totally separate from BW.

Instead of looking at this on face value, think about it from the point of view of a P or Z versus T in the early game. You can be pretty greedy with absolute safety. The threat of an early rax is an important part of the metagame, is it not? As is the threat of a 6 pool.

You can argue about P requiring a pylon before gate, I guess, but with chronoboost that still puts them ahead in terms of the threat of an early rush, and that's part of the core P mechanic, whereas this change just seems like a silly fix.

Balancing a game that has 1v1 prize pools of over $180k USD a month around 2v2 is a terrible idea.
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
October 07 2010 16:50 GMT
#177
On October 08 2010 01:46 Chronicle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 01:39 Pekkz wrote:
On October 08 2010 01:29 Chronicle wrote:
Ok so increasing roach range helps them vs reapers fair enough but why not nerf the reaper range instead? Why do roaches need the extra range, they are good as they are. Now now only are Protoss going to be kited by them all day long it will mean that they will be able to hit cannons 1 space away from Protoss walls, which will make Mass roach really really hard to stop. As for the terran barracks requiring a depo it is pretty silly. Would rather that the Nexus gave off a power field so Protoss has the option of skipping pylons and are not instantly screwed the second their first is sniped.

Overall at least blizzard is "trying" this time, but they still are not hitting the mark.


You cant cannon zerg inn and fast expo anymore? Sad day for you. Zerg had no good options to be agressive cus everyone just walled off. Now we can harass a player who gets too greedy, and thats gonna be sweet.

And no, roaches where not good as they are. They where OK in many situations, but protoss and terran could basicly make any composition and they worked fine against roaches. Now you may actually have to get more then a couple immortals to counter them, and thats gonna be legendary.


Learn 2 Read - No-one mentioned about cannoning in the Zerg. The topic is cannoning OUT the Zerg, something that will no longer be possible if the roachs can not only tank the cannons but hit them behind walls. And if you think for 1 moment that roaches are a bad unit atm then you are one of the few.

Giving Protoss no defensive options vs Fast roaches will leave Protoss in the same boat Zerg are in now vs Fast reaper - IE Totally fucked.


No way. Fast roaches after the patch will die to the same thing that kills them now: Stalkers and force field.
Obsolescence
Profile Joined August 2010
United States270 Posts
October 07 2010 16:50 GMT
#178
On October 08 2010 01:47 MrBitter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2010 01:46 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
WHAT. THE. FUCK?

Fuck my life, all hellion and reaper builds just died?

So this leaves what, camp like a whore for 30 minutes with planetary fortresses? Fun times.


Wait. What?


Hellion builds will be ineffective because apparently roaches were meant to counter them, and not just be kited by them. Of course, since the roach range boost is probably only going to be +1 (3 -> 4), the hellions will still out-range roaches by 1 I believe (2 for partial).
It doesn't think. It doesn't feel. It doesn't laugh or cry. All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die. -Phyrexian Hulk
Raevin
Profile Joined July 2010
246 Posts
October 07 2010 16:51 GMT
#179
At first glance, reapaers seem useless, but teamliquid shouldn't overreact. We don't understand the game yet. It's hard to argue that they're a useful supplement



Please dont give us the "we dont understand the game yet it needs time to grow!"

Reapers as a unit are only useful for early harass, working much better against Zerg than Toss becuase Toss has Stalkers.

Its a gimmicky unit that only worked in really special circumstances, sure you can be cute like a button and make some in mid game to scout and be all like "look at mah jetpacks mom!" but overall the unit will see no play.

theqat
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States2856 Posts
October 07 2010 16:51 GMT
#180
On October 08 2010 01:49 Wolf wrote:
Can you guys imagine what kind of cheeses could emerge from trying to stop the first depot from going up? Sounds ridiculous. I really don't think I've ever been angrier about patch notes than I am now. And I don't play Terran anymore.


If they send two workers to stop your depot, send two workers to stop their workers. Doesn't seem like it will be difficult
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