EPTBlizzard on 1v1 Balancing and the new patch - Page 9
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edwin23
13 Posts
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eloist
United States1017 Posts
On October 08 2010 01:41 Djeez wrote: I don't understand why people say the supply before rax ''forces'' terran to fast expand. Maybe it's just me, but 80% of the terran build I witness do NOT fast expand and do NOT make a barracks before the depot. I do and I use it to fast expand. Imagine that! | ||
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Raevin
246 Posts
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
On October 08 2010 01:22 Bommes wrote: If they buff Zerg building HP they should also fix assimilator HP. Seriously, is there any good reason why protoss gas almost doubles Zerg and Terran gas HP? It's SO annoying. Good changes though from my point of view. The supply depot requirement for Rax is kinda lame though because it will reduce the only terran opening structures to 10 depot 12 rax without the possibility of 9 rax 10 depot and stuff like that, which is actually quite common. But I don't mind, looking forward to these changes and what impact they will have. well this one isnt too bad, i mean an extractor is only 25 minerals =p. pretty cool buffs all around though. I personally dont think the supply depot required for a barracks is necessary, esp if theyre gonna make reaper speed a factory level upgrade. pretty interesting patch all around though, cant wait to see how it works out. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On October 08 2010 01:46 Biochemist wrote: Is there a timing window where terran can attack from one-base before zerg gets enough units or infestors out? Sorta like broodwar before terrans figured out how to fast expand and still defend mutas. Nobody knows, 'cuz Zerg hasn't gone 14 hatch vT since week 1 of beta. =) I'm sure T will find some timing to abuse. Maybe 2 fac a la BW TvP. | ||
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TheTuna
United States286 Posts
I also would love to know why Assimilator HP is so much higher than Extractor or Refinery. | ||
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
I struggle to believe the blink change with fungal growth, the depot rax thing and the factory reaper parts. | ||
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Reborn58
United States238 Posts
Zerg is winning 50% comparative to skill, yet if zerg is a lot harder to play, is not their skill actually higher? Also regarding high level players, I believe it is the general consensus that zerg is weaker. Then you also take into account that zerg is played a lot less (which may be because zerg is weaker, harder to play or have less options or maps are bad etc.). Zerg is played 10% less than the optimum actually. Even at the highest levels there is a 50% win percentage for zerg, so this would lead you to believe that they are actually of the proper skill level for their division. And they are played 10% less because they are harder to play - not because roach range is 3 or building health is too low. Implement things to make playing the race easier, not buffing them. | ||
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-_-
United States7081 Posts
Additionally, reapers are so terrain dependant I think maps could make them useful. Imagine if a second natural has a cliff directly behind a mineral line which is not accesible by land? Or if there was a map where you could only access an opponents with air units, dropships, or reapers (or clever warping of units through warpgates, or lifting off and landing buildings, or maybe there's a little choke which only zerglings and zealots and marines can fit through...)? It really comes down to the maps. As I think about them, I'm salivating. I want some creative maps Blizzard. The map pool should be 50. At least. | ||
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leve15
United States301 Posts
 though I go 9/10 rax every game with terran, for the faster orbital, so i don't really like the supply before barracks on top of the other reaper nerfs, but w/e | ||
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Raevin
246 Posts
So how does terran stop a 6pool in close positions now? Same way Protoss does, you scout and start building a wall earlier | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
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gm.tOSS
Germany898 Posts
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
On October 08 2010 01:43 MrBitter wrote: 14 hatch is hard countered by rax first. If T can't rax first, Z can 14 hatch every game. If T knows Z is going to 14 hatch, and that he can't punish it with aggression, his best response is to FE also. =.= Put a bunker there? You know? the thing that can be ... wait, bunker requires barracks =/ . Does the engineering bay require barracks? Ifnot I think thats the most sturdy building for its cost and if you can put it in the zergs natural he still has to go pool first. I'm glad with the roach range increase. It was rather annoying to have dancing with the stars while I was attacking with my roach force. I'm super stoked to have zerg buildings health buffed. Although reapers are going to be like, redundant now. Hellions do their job better at harrass and marauders did their job better at building sniping. Then again, I never really liked their design. It felt like a gimmicky cool unit. | ||
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Bitters
Canada303 Posts
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stafu
Australia1196 Posts
Instead of looking at this on face value, think about it from the point of view of a P or Z versus T in the early game. You can be pretty greedy with absolute safety. The threat of an early rax is an important part of the metagame, is it not? As is the threat of a 6 pool. You can argue about P requiring a pylon before gate, I guess, but with chronoboost that still puts them ahead in terms of the threat of an early rush, and that's part of the core P mechanic, whereas this change just seems like a silly fix. Balancing a game that has 1v1 prize pools of over $180k USD a month around 2v2 is a terrible idea. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
On October 08 2010 01:46 Chronicle wrote: Learn 2 Read - No-one mentioned about cannoning in the Zerg. The topic is cannoning OUT the Zerg, something that will no longer be possible if the roachs can not only tank the cannons but hit them behind walls. And if you think for 1 moment that roaches are a bad unit atm then you are one of the few. Giving Protoss no defensive options vs Fast roaches will leave Protoss in the same boat Zerg are in now vs Fast reaper - IE Totally fucked. No way. Fast roaches after the patch will die to the same thing that kills them now: Stalkers and force field. | ||
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Obsolescence
United States270 Posts
Hellion builds will be ineffective because apparently roaches were meant to counter them, and not just be kited by them. Of course, since the roach range boost is probably only going to be +1 (3 -> 4), the hellions will still out-range roaches by 1 I believe (2 for partial). | ||
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Raevin
246 Posts
At first glance, reapaers seem useless, but teamliquid shouldn't overreact. We don't understand the game yet. It's hard to argue that they're a useful supplement Please dont give us the "we dont understand the game yet it needs time to grow!" Reapers as a unit are only useful for early harass, working much better against Zerg than Toss becuase Toss has Stalkers. Its a gimmicky unit that only worked in really special circumstances, sure you can be cute like a button and make some in mid game to scout and be all like "look at mah jetpacks mom!" but overall the unit will see no play. | ||
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theqat
United States2856 Posts
On October 08 2010 01:49 Wolf wrote: Can you guys imagine what kind of cheeses could emerge from trying to stop the first depot from going up? Sounds ridiculous. I really don't think I've ever been angrier about patch notes than I am now. And I don't play Terran anymore. If they send two workers to stop your depot, send two workers to stop their workers. Doesn't seem like it will be difficult | ||
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