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[Spoiler] Next Bonjwa? - Page 7

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BanZu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3329 Posts
February 08 2009 22:16 GMT
#121
At this point, yes, Bisu is more-or-less bonjwa. With the standards set by the previous ones, there is no way we are going to see another one...
Sun Tzu once said, "Defiler becomes useless at the presences of a vessel."
strongwind
Profile Joined July 2007
United States862 Posts
February 08 2009 22:23 GMT
#122
On February 09 2009 01:35 cosiant wrote:
Even Bisu himself is saying no way

This is from the interview:
- You still aren't hearing the name "Bonjwa", how do you feel?
▲ I was asked this before. Honestly, I don't really want to hear it. When I saw bonjwas in my eyes, they all rised to the top, and toppled down to the abyss. I don't want to be a bonjwa, rather I want to be that guy who was good and didn't fall into the abyss.

If the guy himself doesn't want the title, than you should not give it to him.

this quote says it all. He's making his own path, so while we're all debating whether he's some immeasurable term, he'll keep raking in the championships. Keep it up KTY!
Taek Bang Fighting!
Proposal
Profile Joined December 2007
United States1310 Posts
February 08 2009 22:25 GMT
#123
On February 09 2009 07:16 BanZu wrote:
At this point, yes, Bisu is more-or-less bonjwa. With the standards set by the previous ones, there is no way we are going to see another one...


and that the competition is rising
TheTyranid
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Russian Federation4333 Posts
February 08 2009 22:38 GMT
#124
The biggest problem with this Bisu is Bonjwa debate is establishing a clear definition of what a Bonjwa is. There are several definitions of Bonjwa right now so TL needs to properly define the term. Otherwise, Bisu will always qualify as a Bonjwa from some points but won't qualify from others thus resulting in numerous threads of a never ending debate.
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-08 22:46:19
February 08 2009 22:45 GMT
#125
On February 09 2009 04:09 Baddieko wrote:
I dont think so. The GSL can't be counted as a major tourney. Some teams had pulled out. Best and Stork and many players drop the tourney to avoid schedule.congestion.[...]


exactly who cares about 35k$ (+ 8k$ bonus vs jaedong) ? ~_~
Terran & Potato Salad.
abakben
Profile Joined April 2007
United States308 Posts
February 08 2009 23:00 GMT
#126
On February 09 2009 07:38 TheTyranid wrote:
The biggest problem with this Bisu is Bonjwa debate is establishing a clear definition of what a Bonjwa is. There are several definitions of Bonjwa right now so TL needs to properly define the term. Otherwise, Bisu will always qualify as a Bonjwa from some points but won't qualify from others thus resulting in numerous threads of a never ending debate.

I definitely agree with you. There should be a formal minimum requirements list. Otherwise it is pointless to argue his status.
Three big B's (BEST-BISU-BOXER) fighting for SKT1. All we need is a good zerg to dominate the Proleague:)
darkemperor
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Turkey725 Posts
February 08 2009 23:11 GMT
#127
It is said that in every area one player has surprassed the limits and took the ' Bonjwa ' title. But in this era it is not likely because there are lots of good and almost equal players. We say Stork , JD , Flash and Bisu are the contenders for Bonjwa title but there are players like Best and Jangbi (even Leta ) who played good and sometimes Godly. The point is that in this era no one can be called as Bonjwa because there are lots of good players. But it sure is that Bisu is one step ahead of the others because his PvZ build is not his only skill now , he can overpower any opponent whether it is Toss or Terran. His multitasking skill is way superior to others. Bisu is more than Bonjwa.
#1 Kim Taek Yong Fan <3 || Legend of the Fall // Fall of the Legend
Letmelose
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Korea (South)3227 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-08 23:21:21
February 08 2009 23:19 GMT
#128
On February 09 2009 07:38 TheTyranid wrote:
The biggest problem with this Bisu is Bonjwa debate is establishing a clear definition of what a Bonjwa is. There are several definitions of Bonjwa right now so TL needs to properly define the term. Otherwise, Bisu will always qualify as a Bonjwa from some points but won't qualify from others thus resulting in numerous threads of a never ending debate.


Since the word was used without a clear definition to start off with, there is no way any discussion involving the words "bonjwa" will lead to a concrete answer. Each person has slightly different views on the subject, and that's why Korean communities argue over a crappy made up word to this date, and why TL.net has been doing the same since it caught the "bonjwa" fever.

Savior was often refered to as "Mae-bonjwa" during his glory days without all the various connotations the word carries today. It was just an expression of how awesome Savior was at the time. "LimLeeChoi" (the surnames of Boxer, Nada, and Oov) was also a popular phrase, a phrase that grouped three of the most dominating terrans, or players for that matter, of the progaming scene so far.

After Savior started to dominate like mad, It didn't take long for someone to create the phrase "LimLeeChoiMae". It just got accepted and the phrase spread like wildfire. And these four players were bonjwas by default since then. People just felt right about it I guess.

People started to define the word after they used it. But how can one person successfully define the word so that it captures the brilliance of all these four players? We kind of feel it in our hearts, but there is no one criteria that makes all of us content.
TL+ Member
[DUF]MethodMan
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Germany1716 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-08 23:35:45
February 08 2009 23:34 GMT
#129
Title still spoilers the GOM Final, gladly I watched it before.

On topic: I don't think there will be any Bonjwa again. The reasons have been pointed out countless times in this and other threads. There are just too many top players and the training must have become such intensive, there wouldn't be any way to dominate using one or two builds (like Savior did). As much as I'm a Bisu fanboy and voting instantly "yes" (:D), after reading through this thread makes me doubt giving him Bonjwa status. I don't see any player coming close to be Bonjwa, it is, disregarding the players skill, just impossible nowadays.

But moreover you have to agree on one thing, Bisu climbed out of his slump pretty quickly and he didn't just climb out of it, he was and still is the player to beat. I think this will be the new definition of "Bonjwa", the ability of climbing out of some sort of slump after losing important series. And with the incredible skill density AND the heavy amount of televised matches to be played nowadays it will be kinda normal to lose important series which undoubtfully can have such a psychological impact on the player so they tend to slump after it.
TheTyranid
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Russian Federation4333 Posts
February 08 2009 23:39 GMT
#130
On February 09 2009 08:19 Letmelose wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2009 07:38 TheTyranid wrote:
The biggest problem with this Bisu is Bonjwa debate is establishing a clear definition of what a Bonjwa is. There are several definitions of Bonjwa right now so TL needs to properly define the term. Otherwise, Bisu will always qualify as a Bonjwa from some points but won't qualify from others thus resulting in numerous threads of a never ending debate.

People started to define the word after they used it. But how can one person successfully define the word so that it captures the brilliance of all these four players? We kind of feel it in our hearts, but there is no one criteria that makes all of us content.

There is one criteria. During the reign of those 4 players, no other player came close to their skill level. They were favourites in any boX matchup and this were the "undisputed bests" of that time which is one of the proposed definitions of Bonjwa. The word Bonjwa roughly translates as "best" from Korean, right? Therefore undisputed best is the most accurate definition of Bonjwa.

Bisu's individual title count is Bonjwa worthy. However he is NOT the undisputed best. If Bisu was the undisputed best, there would be no question if he could beat Jaedong in a bo5. Do you think there is any doubt in Bisu winning in a bo5 vs Jaedong? If you do, you acknowledge that Bisu is not a Bonjwa.

There is a reason why this era is called the Post Bonjwa era. Ever since 3/3/07, there has been no undisputed best. In a time period where there are several players playing at an equal level, you can't have a Bonjwa, now matter how good the players play. You need a significant gap in skill and performance between #1 and #2 to have the #1 be a Bonjwa. There is no such gap between Bisu and JD/Flash. Even if Bisu won 10 starleagues and there were people stepping on his toes, he would not Be a Bonjwa.
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9071 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-08 23:52:32
February 08 2009 23:50 GMT
#131
well if you put it that way I will gladly have a guy stepping on his toes, as long as bisu gets those 10 SLs, thats so exciting about KTY. Within one week he can dominate flash, who was thought to know his numbers and at same time drop games in his favorite MU against weaker opponents. And the other good thing about Bisu is as weird as it may sound Stork. For me this is THE rivalry in starcraft, and for me in personal the games they provide playin each other are on a hole different level
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-09 00:22:00
February 09 2009 00:18 GMT
#132
If Bisu can:

1. Keep up his dominance (aka 75%+ winrate that he has going since Oct last year)
2. Beat Jaedong Bo5 (Feb 22nd... preferably 3-1 or 3-0)
3. Win this OSL with the unfavorable toss maps (going through a couple of Leta/Flash/Jaedong/Stork/etc.).

I'd say that would be a good case for him with the MSL, OSL, and GOM titles plus dominance of peers.
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
fanatacist
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
10319 Posts
February 09 2009 00:21 GMT
#133
I think Bisu should become a Bonjwa if he continues doing what he's doing. The data there shows that Nada is a fucking monster though.
Peace~
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
February 09 2009 00:47 GMT
#134
If he can beat Flash, Jaedong and July in a Bo5 with standart play he is a serious contender for the throne.
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-09 00:59:55
February 09 2009 00:59 GMT
#135
On February 09 2009 08:39 TheTyranid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2009 08:19 Letmelose wrote:
On February 09 2009 07:38 TheTyranid wrote:
Bisu's individual title count is Bonjwa worthy. However he is NOT the undisputed best. If Bisu was the undisputed best, there would be no question if he could beat Jaedong in a bo5. Do you think there is any doubt in Bisu winning in a bo5 vs Jaedong? If you do, you acknowledge that Bisu is not a Bonjwa.


To be fair, Jaedong and July (?) are the ONLY people against whom Bisu would not be the clear favorite in a Bo5. (Not that this negates your point, but just to give credit where it's due.)

edit: quotes > me
May the BeSt man win.
Atrioc
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1866 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-09 01:03:19
February 09 2009 01:02 GMT
#136
You guys...

there was a point in KESPA history when sAviOr was four-hundred points higher than the #2 (NaDa) and one-fucking-thousand points higher than the #3. That is so far above his closest competitors that there isnt a shadow of a doubt in his ability to beat anyone on earth.

You cannot say the same about Bisu at this point.
Writerman what
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
February 09 2009 01:19 GMT
#137
On February 09 2009 10:02 Atrioc wrote:
You guys...

there was a point in KESPA history when sAviOr was four-hundred points higher than the #2 (NaDa) and one-fucking-thousand points higher than the #3. That is so far above his closest competitors that there isnt a shadow of a doubt in his ability to beat anyone on earth.

You cannot say the same about Bisu at this point.




I like this argument.
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
mIsUZu
Profile Joined August 2008
New Zealand528 Posts
February 09 2009 01:26 GMT
#138
As much of bisu fan that I am, a big SORRY but he lacks almost in every way in comparison to the last 4 bonjwas..

Winning streak, consistency, karisma, stats, career..

I believe Savior will be the last bonjwa because it is just impossible to have someone dominiating the pro scene thesedays, what with such mechanical practice sessions each team has and the amount of competition that the new youngsters bring in..
Why So Serious?!
Deleted User 30223
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
3104 Posts
February 09 2009 01:37 GMT
#139
On February 09 2009 10:02 Atrioc wrote:
You guys...

there was a point in KESPA history when sAviOr was four-hundred points higher than the #2 (NaDa) and one-fucking-thousand points higher than the #3. That is so far above his closest competitors that there isnt a shadow of a doubt in his ability to beat anyone on earth.

You cannot say the same about Bisu at this point.



This is the definition of dominance
Night[Mare
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Mexico4793 Posts
February 09 2009 01:42 GMT
#140
amazing winrate by oov
Teamliquidian townie
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