EPT[Spoiler] Next Bonjwa? - Page 9
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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FirstBorn
Romania3955 Posts
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Eg!
Belgium49 Posts
Would you hold Bisu as a definitive favorite vs Leta? Well maybe, but would you also hold him as a definitive favorite vs Jaedong, Flash and Jangbi as well? He's not even close to being such a bad ass scary monster to me, so he ain't no bonjwa to me! | ||
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BlizzardTevez
33 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Lukeeze[zR]
Switzerland6838 Posts
On February 10 2009 00:46 Eg! wrote: I agree with Idra. Bonjwa is not about statistics or winning certain leagues and turnaments. A bonjwa is someone who dominates so hard that he's the definitive favorite no matter who he's up against. Would you hold Bisu as a definitive favorite vs Leta? Well maybe, but would you also hold him as a definitive favorite vs Jaedong, Flash and Jangbi as well? He's not even close to being such a bad ass scary monster to me, so he ain't no bonjwa to me! vs leta and jangbi ? definitely. VS jaedong and flash, it's 50/50 on the paper. Anyway i agree with the 1st paragraph. Bisu is no bonjwa. | ||
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omninmo
2349 Posts
all former bonjwas are hasbeens. bisu is only 19 and could dominate for a while yet. bonjwa is a limit, a ceiling, a word. what makes a dominant player is their knowledge of the current metagame and their application of it to their strategies. Bisu's mind games and psycholigcal control is what makes him the champion he is today. Bisu doesnt have any better mechanics that best, jangbi, stork, or call but he mindballs them in every bo3/5 with his cool and calculated response style. + Show Spoiler + **spolier** results of gom classic season2 follow: Bisu put a palm to jangbi's forehead of futile aggression in the recent GOM final bisu showed why he is the taiji toss. "the greatest good is like water" gm1: bisu gets double mannerpyloned and loses a few probes to Jangbi initial zealot harass...then he drops a nexus on like 18 supply ftw! gm2: bisu fails to block his ramp and watches helplessly as dts ravage his probe line. championships are bo5 so that both players get to make 1 noob mistake. ..just one. gm3: macro armistace until mid game when jangbi's super aggressve 2-3 speed shuttle harass cripples bisu's hope at a late game. while watching speed shuttles fly around killing probes bisu macros hard of 3 bases and floods jangbi's natural into main ftw. gm4: Jangbi's ill-timed 4gate goon invasion of Col2 in game three was masterfully deflected. when Bisu set up his outnumbered goon wall just in time to take three steps back, lure jangbi into the narrow choke and then rain pain from the highground supported concave. also notice in that replay how the drones came in at just at the exact time after jangbi focus fired the bisugoons. this way the probes survived and dealt massive damage while the bisugoons actually absorbed damage for the killer probes. had jangbi realized his poor position, microfired the probes in retreat, met up with reinforcements and attacked as one then there might have been a different outcome. gm5...oops over. bisu wins gom classic season2 I have some nicknames for Bisu: + Show Spoiler + BoobytrapToss, Cucumber Toss Hairpray Toss, Taiji Toss (kind of derived from brucelee toss.. but more appropriate for his current stlye which has become less aggressive. taiji is a daoist influenced chinese gongfu based on the principle that all excellence is like water. it seeks to absorb the enemies advances with as little resistance as possible before striking the opponent in their most vulnerable stance. ) | ||
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sh02hp0869
Sweden460 Posts
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EsX_Raptor
United States2801 Posts
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Zinbiel
Sweden878 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Next like some people have already brought up it's not about how many OSL/MSL you win - that's just the result of bonjwa status. Savior was being called Bonjwa before he won his OSL even though he lost 2 MSL finals out of 5 - why? Because he was invincible. Even his losses seemed more like him fucking up/bad luck/etc rather than being outplayed. The candidate is just so dominant that those Starleague are gotten long after he has earned his title. Lastly, don't think that Flash/Jaedong/Leta and the like are the reason Bisu can't be a Bonjwa - that's just ludicrous. As if back then there weren't a shitload of good players. You forget that not only did the previous Bonjwas all exist in the same frame (except Savior and Boxer) but there were TONS of good gamers and specialists out there. This is an important point that some of you keep ignoring - it's about DOMINANCE no matter what. Boxer did it through his amazing creativity, Nada with his ingenious unit control and playmaking ability, Oov started the macro trend and is still possibly the greatest player ever in this regard along with his uncheesiness, and Savior with his game management always getting away with the exact number of units needed to defend before the rape began. Bisu? He's almost there. He is the undisputed king of multitasking. That could be his "thing". However, until he learns to dominate with it he won't be called bonjwa. | ||
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Ichigo1234551
United States649 Posts
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Eg!
Belgium49 Posts
On February 10 2009 00:56 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: vs leta and jangbi ? definitely. VS jaedong and flash, it's 50/50 on the paper. Anyway i agree with the 1st paragraph. Bisu is no bonjwa. Yea, I also think Flash and Jaedong wound be 50/50. Leta I'm not sure, but i feel the current Leta-hype might have something going for it.. I also agree Bisu would be favourite vs Jangbi, but I wouldn't consider Jangbi a total pushover either (would be ∼70/30) - as he should be if Bisu was bonjwa  Maybe this is a good definition of bonjwa: Scary gosu beast who is considered 85/15 vs any opponent. (85 % chance of winning, english isn't my native language!) | ||
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KnightOfNi
United States1508 Posts
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
On February 10 2009 00:18 fusionsdf wrote: yep hwasin, nada, iloveoov, midas, yarnc, casy, firebathero, sea, light, GGplay, anytime = ALL NOOBS People who were past their prime for the most part along with a lot of poor players is what I should have said, and look what happened when Savior played firebathero... I think you would know. Now look at what happens when most of these players play people in these days? In games after 2008: Iloveoov 4-4 3 wins coming from players on ace so essentially 1-4 Hwasin is admittedly still playing well. Nada I was not referring to as he was second on Kespa midas 25-29 However he is 2-8 in his last 10 yarnc is still playing quite well Casy 8-12 which is quite impressive considering he plays for Ace but 3-7 in his last 10 Kingdom hasn't played a single game in 2008 but he's coaching SKT protosses and one of them is a candidate for the next bonjwa so.... Nal_ra is 4-5 in 2008 which is not terrible but 3 of his wins are over Daezang Oversky and Punsoo. Firebathero Sea light and GGplay and anytime I won't talk about because honestly they're not doing bad at all, I never once said all these people were noobs simply that the majority of players in these times were not exactly the greatest and that there are so many more great players in these days. Look at the top 30 Kespa it's ridiculous but as I said my point was not that they are all TERRIBLE just that the competition was not as fierce as it is these days. | ||
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
On February 10 2009 00:46 Eg! wrote: I agree with Idra. Bonjwa is not about statistics or winning certain leagues and turnaments. A bonjwa is someone who dominates so hard that he's the definitive favorite no matter who he's up against. Would you hold Bisu as a definitive favorite vs Leta? Well maybe, but would you also hold him as a definitive favorite vs Jaedong, Flash and Jangbi as well? He's not even close to being such a bad ass scary monster to me, so he ain't no bonjwa to me! Well, keep in mind he just beat jangbi 3-1 and is 6-3 against jangbi in his entire career. | ||
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Tekin
2711 Posts
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Nylan
United States795 Posts
On February 11 2009 01:27 d(O.o)a wrote: People who were past their prime for the most part along with a lot of poor players is what I should have said, and look what happened when Savior played firebathero... I think you would know. Now look at what happens when most of these players play people in these days? In games after 2008: Iloveoov 4-4 3 wins coming from players on ace so essentially 1-4 Hwasin is admittedly still playing well. Nada I was not referring to as he was second on Kespa midas 25-29 However he is 2-8 in his last 10 yarnc is still playing quite well Casy 8-12 which is quite impressive considering he plays for Ace but 3-7 in his last 10 Kingdom hasn't played a single game in 2008 but he's coaching SKT protosses and one of them is a candidate for the next bonjwa so.... Nal_ra is 4-5 in 2008 which is not terrible but 3 of his wins are over Daezang Oversky and Punsoo. Firebathero Sea light and GGplay and anytime I won't talk about because honestly they're not doing bad at all, I never once said all these people were noobs simply that the majority of players in these times were not exactly the greatest and that there are so many more great players in these days. Look at the top 30 Kespa it's ridiculous but as I said my point was not that they are all TERRIBLE just that the competition was not as fierce as it is these days. Translation: You're wrong! My theory still stands, with a few exceptions...okay, everything you brought up. But still, I'm right!! Really! | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On February 11 2009 01:27 d(O.o)a wrote: People who were past their prime for the most part along with a lot of poor players is what I should have said, and look what happened when Savior played firebathero... I think you would know. Now look at what happens when most of these players play people in these days? In games after 2008: Iloveoov 4-4 3 wins coming from players on ace so essentially 1-4 Hwasin is admittedly still playing well. Nada I was not referring to as he was second on Kespa midas 25-29 However he is 2-8 in his last 10 yarnc is still playing quite well Casy 8-12 which is quite impressive considering he plays for Ace but 3-7 in his last 10 Kingdom hasn't played a single game in 2008 but he's coaching SKT protosses and one of them is a candidate for the next bonjwa so.... Nal_ra is 4-5 in 2008 which is not terrible but 3 of his wins are over Daezang Oversky and Punsoo. Firebathero Sea light and GGplay and anytime I won't talk about because honestly they're not doing bad at all, I never once said all these people were noobs simply that the majority of players in these times were not exactly the greatest and that there are so many more great players in these days. Look at the top 30 Kespa it's ridiculous but as I said my point was not that they are all TERRIBLE just that the competition was not as fierce as it is these days. ahahahaha you're ridiculous hwasin, nada, iloveoov, midas, yarnc, casy, firebathero, sea, light, GGplay, anytime = ALL hwasin, midas, casy, yarnc, sea, light were all in their prime nal_ra, reach, anytime, iloveoov were still very strong nada won the OSL (and masters) shortly after savior absolutely ridiculous. You're using 2008 stats (and badly badly warping them lol) to prove that these guys were worthless in 2006/7? wow | ||
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
On February 11 2009 01:38 Nylan wrote: Translation: You're wrong! My theory still stands, with a few exceptions...okay, everything you brought up. But still, I'm right!! Really! How is Nal_ra going 1-5 against non ace/brand new players an exception or Oov going 1-4 against non-ace players. What about midas who is 2-8 in his last 10 or Casy 3-7 in his last 10. I'm not trying to say that I'm right and everybody is wrong which you would have known if you had read the entire post. What I was trying to say is that the competition nowadays is just so much strong I mean look at people like Flash Leta Jangbi Stork Jaedong Forgg (Okay not in TvP) Best Fantasy Mind Free and many others, how can you be a bonjwa with this much competition from AMAZING players. | ||
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