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On March 13 2009 07:41 kidd wrote:
You really sound like my friend who is Italian and a huge Roma supporter which is obviously gonna make you a little biased especially against the English league (probably cause no Italians play there). Although, I would like to know about how you feel you can say that the EPL is "more fucked" when there was major scandels in Italy over paying refs.
And seriously 37/44 vs 27/44 is only a differnece of ten players dude, it's not really that big of a difference. Be honest also, don't you enjoy watching players like juan, riise (man of the match IMO from last champions league game) Julio baptista, and arguebly Romas best forward Vuccinic. Without these players slow, old, Totti has no one to play the ball too with his little tricks
yea 61% and 84% is not much of a difference...
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In the second leg of the last match in Europe:
united: 6 british started
inter: 2 italians started
roma: 4 italians started
juventus: 6 italians started
sadly, united played more homegrown players than your beloved 'forza roma'
and if you look outside the big 4 in each league:
aston villa - 22/31 british (4th)
everton - 16/31 british (6th)
west ham - 17/31 british (7th)
man city - 17/31 british (8th)
ac milan - 13/29 italians (3rd)
fiorentina - 13/26 italians (4th)
genoa - 14/22 italians (5th)
lazio - 13/30 italians (7th)
caligari - 22/27 italians (8th) -- THIS IS A REAL TEAM GENTLEMEN
you can't really go on and on about how the premiership is ruining the game with numbers like that, sir 
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On March 13 2009 07:41 kidd wrote:
Be honest also, don't you enjoy watching players like juan, riise (man of the match IMO from last champions league game) Julio baptista, and arguebly Romas best forward Vuccinic. Without these players slow, old, Totti has no one to play the ball too with his little tricks
And those players (or better ones) without Totti, make Roma just as soulless as another English team. Similarly, if Totti, Maldini, del Piero or Gattuso play on any other team, they would be average players (Cannavaro?). Is that relationship fan - player - team what is missing everytime I watch an EPL match, except in Liverpool with Gerard.
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On March 13 2009 07:41 kidd wrote:
You really sound like my friend who is Italian and a huge Roma supporter which is obviously gonna make you a little biased especially against the English league (probably cause no Italians play there). Although, I would like to know about how you feel you can say that the EPL is "more fucked" when there was major scandels in Italy over paying refs.
And seriously 37/44 vs 27/44 is only a differnece of ten players dude, it's not really that big of a difference. Be honest also, don't you enjoy watching players like juan, riise (man of the match IMO from last champions league game) Julio baptista, and arguebly Romas best forward Vuccinic. Without these players slow, old, Totti has no one to play the ball too with his little tricks
I really like how you choose to ignore parts of my post.  I can admit that I am slightly bitter about being eliminated by ''english'' teams three years in a row, but my view on the whole situation would've been the same regardless.
And 10/44 is quite a big difference; 84% vs 61%. UberMatt; and how many english players did Arsenal start with? 'Pool? Also, Roma would've had more italians if it wasn't for injuries and yellow cards. 57% foreigners in the starting XI's in PL, 40% in Serie A. That's the big picture. And it's also not only about players, as I made clear in the previous post. 50% foreign coaches vs 5% foreign coaches. Once again; Major. Fucking. Difference. I can keep on going forever with stats such as those. Amongst the top scorers 2006/2007 there were 2 english players in the top 10 in PL. In Serie A the same year there were 8 italian players. No english player has been the top scorer in PL since 99/00. Serie A has had italian top scorers the last four years. And once again, just look at the owners of the clubs.
To summarize: there's simply no way anyone in their right mind could argue against the fact that PL is way more dependant on foreign money, forgeign players and foreign coaches than Serie A is. It is a fact, period. If that fact is good or bad is however open for debate. I personally prefer heart and soul before whoring out for money from people overseas calling football soccer, or russian/arabic dudes who drink oil to their meals. I'm in love with Roma for not selling out. I'm in love with Totti for staying in Roma despite countless offers from big clubs who could've given him much more money and titles. I'm in love with that love.
I do enjoy watching Vucinic play, and Riise was indeed brilliant. All the awesome brazilians must of course be allowed to showcase their skills on the big european stage. However, it must not go too far. Clubs should not compromise their identity and integrity in their quest for glory. An english club with a spanish manager, an american owner and 10/11 foreigners on the pitch is not very english, is it? It also hinders younger, home grown players to get through. Why play 18-year old talent John Smith when you've got Berbatov? The english national team will never win anything again if the evolution keeps going in this direction.
Roma had this young talent that was touted as ''The next Totti'', a 16-year old kid named Davide Petrucci. He was poached by United because they were able to pay him much more due to some regulations in italy. The fact that this 16-year old boy left his home, his country, the club that developed him in order to make money in England sums up everything that I dislike about english football perfectly. It's not the evolution I want.
About the scandals in italian football, there is nothing I can say to defend it. It isn't very relevant to the whole foreigner discussion, though. Nobody's perfect. Italy has a great football culture and great passion, but some of them tend to play dirty. They are, however, doing their best to get rid of that aspect (banning the referee's involved, regulations etc). Anyways, at least the ones who cheated were italian. 
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You keep saying 50% foreign coaches, however no one considers a Scottish or Welsh manager a 'foreigner'.
There are four coaches in the premiership from outside the UK.
Also, in response to this paragraph:
"Roma had this young talent that was touted as ''The next Totti'', a 16-year old kid named Davide Petrucci. He was poached by United because they were able to pay him much more due to some regulations in italy. The fact that this 16-year old boy left his home, his country, the club that developed him in order to make money in England sums up everything that I dislike about english football perfectly. It's not the evolution I want."
He was not forced to play for United. He could have easily refused and stayed in Italy, however he wanted a chance to play for the best team in the world. If the La Liga or the Bundesliga had the best league in the world, he would have moved there. Would you then hate spanish football or german football? If the Serie A is not the best league in the world, players that want money over playing inside their native country will continue to leave. This happens all over the world, including young Brazilian players moving to Italy instead of playing in their native league. You can hardly blame 'english football' for that. It sounds to me like you have a problem with the kid: "The fact that this 16-year old boy left his home, his country, the club that developed him in order to make money" moreso than english football
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actually.... lets be completely honest, English football in general is quite fucked up. Liverpool and Chelsea are in so much debt that I can't really see them paying those off in my lifetime, and there is honestly no english players. I am counting solid starters, MU = rooney and Rio and carrick/Hargreaves(if he is still alive), chelsea = Cashly, terry and lampard, pool = gerrard and carragher and arsenal = -_-
Still, that doesn't stop EPL from being the best league as they are more willing to spend. Apart from arsenal, the other three are foreign own (and MC) and this is very very unhealthy. If you think those Americans are coming in and just pumping in huge amount of money then you are wrong. They are just putting all the debt into a holding company and basically just keep refinancing the deals or in chelsea case it is a no-interest loan from the chairman.
I can't even remember the last time we had an english national coach, probably Hoddle but he was sacked after non football related issue and he didn't even commit a crime for god sake. oh yes, McClown doesn't count btw because he is the biggest joker ever. I don't think it is 100% his fault since he was never good and didn't have the reputation. The only thing he has done up to that point where he was hired was to carry a middlesborough team to UEFA final with like 3 games of complete fluke scoring like 5 goals each game.
I would say EPL is not as healthy as spainsh football but really not sure about italian. Lets look at the Milan players as you liked!! You honestly think Maldini/Nesta/Inzaghi/Zambrotta are still top players? they are basically playing because they are in Milan, Nesta/Zambrotta has a chance to be a sub in any other club but thats it! Saying that, the Italian national team has actually won something in recent history and we are still talking about the greatness of 66'
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also, i think another thing worthwhile to think is how many players in each countries respective top club will still play for the club if they don't get paid. To be honest, I think even gerrard or JT will have a very serious think about that but someone like Raul will just stfu and get out onto the pitch.
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is there any websites other than espn360.com that stream European football matches? Watching Telemundo gets old sometimes.
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On March 13 2009 10:17 uberMatt wrote:In the second leg of the last match in Europe: united: 6 british started inter: 2 italians started roma: 4 italians started juventus: 6 italians started sadly, united played more homegrown players than your beloved 'forza roma' and if you look outside the big 4 in each league: aston villa - 22/31 british (4th) everton - 16/31 british (6th) west ham - 17/31 british (7th) man city - 17/31 british (8th) ac milan - 13/29 italians (3rd) fiorentina - 13/26 italians (4th) genoa - 14/22 italians (5th) lazio - 13/30 italians (7th) caligari - 22/27 italians (8th) -- THIS IS A REAL TEAM GENTLEMEN you can't really go on and on about how the premiership is ruining the game with numbers like that, sir
its nice that you ignored: Liverpool (2 british started), Chelsea (3 ) and Arsenal (1)
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On March 13 2009 11:43 ilj.psa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 10:17 uberMatt wrote:In the second leg of the last match in Europe: united: 6 british started inter: 2 italians started roma: 4 italians started juventus: 6 italians started sadly, united played more homegrown players than your beloved 'forza roma' and if you look outside the big 4 in each league: aston villa - 22/31 british (4th) everton - 16/31 british (6th) west ham - 17/31 british (7th) man city - 17/31 british (8th) ac milan - 13/29 italians (3rd) fiorentina - 13/26 italians (4th) genoa - 14/22 italians (5th) lazio - 13/30 italians (7th) caligari - 22/27 italians (8th) -- THIS IS A REAL TEAM GENTLEMEN you can't really go on and on about how the premiership is ruining the game with numbers like that, sir its nice that you ignored: Liverpool (2 british started), Chelsea (3 ) and Arsenal (1)
actually, no arsenal starters were british
aside from united, the rest of the 'big 4' is full of foreigners, no one is disputing that. my point was that the _best_ english team still played just as many british players as any of the top italian teams played italians.
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I have to say that, when the Glazers wanted to take over United there was a massive uprising among the United fans, they lined up the streets and along Malcom Glazer's limo as it traveled to Old Trafford. However the fact is, those who loved ManU the most could not prevent the takeover, it was a business issue. If given the choice it's obvious that no Americans would take charge of any of the historic clubs in the PL.
Those rich businessmen in choosing the PL says something, it's because PL has the most fans, PL has the biggest TV contracts, PL makes the most money. It is not the players nor the fans fault that those business men ripped away the souls of a lot of clubs because they saw an opportunity to make even more money or rather to use their money to play FM in real life. No one is to blame but the owners. If some rich Arab offered to pay off all of Roma's loan, pay for a new stadium, and provide extravagant amounts of transfer funds in exchange for partial decision over manager and player transfers, Roma would have a new owner, there is nothing love can do, money is always more powerful.
As to the other issue of foreign influence, it is indeed a problem. After failing to qualify for Euro 2008, the FA has put into plans (I think) to focus more on grassroots talent. I haven't been a football fan for long enough to talk about how exactly this foreign invasion happened, to my knowledge it has been a gradual process.
From the perspective of a loyal Man United fan, I don't care about the foreigners, but of course I am not English (though I support the English national team). I was very against the Glazer takeover primarily because it put the club into massive debt, however results speak for themselves. In addition, the club has not changed much at all, there has definitely been more foreign players coming in, but I think it is a reaction to the overall direction taken by the top 4 to import talent from all over the world. Still, Cristiano Ronaldo is as loved as Beckham was, talent wins hearts, regardless of nationality.
Man U of course is one of the better if not best example of foreign influence on a major domestic club. Chelsea and Man City have had their souls reworked by money. They are completely different clubs now compared to before their respective takeovers. That is something I admit I dislike intensely as a football fan, not as a Man U fan. It messes with the dynamic of the league, and provides an unhealthy example for other clubs, as if trophies can be bought, not earned. However, as we all see, money can have at most a partial effect on results, talent, management, and most importantly chemistry are still king. So in the end, the only direct effect foreign management can have is by providing clubs with money, if the club has a soul, it will not change, thus the money will only be a positive influence.
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On March 13 2009 11:48 uberMatt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 11:43 ilj.psa wrote:On March 13 2009 10:17 uberMatt wrote:In the second leg of the last match in Europe: united: 6 british started inter: 2 italians started roma: 4 italians started juventus: 6 italians started sadly, united played more homegrown players than your beloved 'forza roma' and if you look outside the big 4 in each league: aston villa - 22/31 british (4th) everton - 16/31 british (6th) west ham - 17/31 british (7th) man city - 17/31 british (8th) ac milan - 13/29 italians (3rd) fiorentina - 13/26 italians (4th) genoa - 14/22 italians (5th) lazio - 13/30 italians (7th) caligari - 22/27 italians (8th) -- THIS IS A REAL TEAM GENTLEMEN you can't really go on and on about how the premiership is ruining the game with numbers like that, sir its nice that you ignored: Liverpool (2 british started), Chelsea (3 ) and Arsenal (1) actually, no arsenal starters were british aside from united, the rest of the 'big 4' is full of foreigners, no one is disputing that. my point was that the _best_ english team still played just as many british players as any of the top italian teams played italians.
yea and I admire Man.U for that , i respect them, but wether they are the best team is just subjective. Really I have nothing against the EPL , i hear a lot about how british people themselves are arguing that "there are too many foreigners" or "focus on national values". This has been a debate for a long time, which btw i don't agree with it because the point of making a good team is looking all over the world , but just point out how this has been an issue mostly on britain.
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Hopefully there wont be any top matches too soon
like barca vs manu would be so sad .. this would be the perfect final..
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i can't believe pool is winning..... mu defense at the shittest of the whole season
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Great game and Liverpool is just that good ...
really
And Manu isnt that good today
Red card was right decision I think..
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World chances and football chances also. Every1 should just deal with this fact. U need 11 players to national team(+ some subs).
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Wow, just watched Liverpool-United... what a great game! 4-1 Liverpool.
Liverpool were really good and totally deserved to win.
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Does it look like Ferguson was using this match to give those subbed 3 some practice?
Risk losing this game, less injury, win everything in the final stages. Hmm... will it work? 
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France15446 Posts
ManU basically fell apart after that huge mistake from Vidic leading to Pool's 1st goal. That shouldn't have happened. :/
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On March 14 2009 23:54 Aerox wrote:Does it look like Ferguson was using this match to give those subbed 3 some practice? Risk losing this game, less injury, win everything in the final stages. Hmm... will it work?
? No it was 2-1 at the time and he was trying to turn the game.
Scholes, Giggs and Berbatov are attacking options.
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EPT
