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Update
Both TaKe and NarutO have responded to this topic. Citing NarutO's response here as it hopefully resolves the situation.
On November 05 2022 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:
Hello.
This is NarutO. Besides what TaKe already mentioned I just want to sum it up real quick. I am sorry that there was miscommunication and an unfortunate solution. After speaking with everyone again we'll change to the more fitting (and suggested) system:
qualifiers first (paid accomodation/travel)
invite by EPT ranking after
I do hope the people that get invited later on have the support/teams/money to actually travel to HSC. Just adding this thought for the people to understand there was no ill will: Having the invited players not supported meant that qualified players with smaller teams might have the chance to travel instead of declining due to money-issues. I understand this wasn't the best solution.
I hope this is all solved with this.
Edit: After todays show I'll go ahead and will have to revoke the invites made; obviously unpleasant but I hope people will understand.
Link to TaKe's reply.
Please remember to stay civil when discussing things!
TheOneAboveU
Original Post
According to reliable sources, the invited players (according to the EPT rankings) for Home Story Cup XXII will not have extra support on addtional travel support and/or hotel.
On the other hand, the qualified players from qualifiers will have supports from the organizer, as the invite only means players are qualified via EPT rankings and "there is no true invite". Players can choose to decline the invite and play in qualifiers and their invite will go to the next player according to EPT rankings.
Informations can also be referred here(scboy forum)
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I don't know what the organizers are thinking. If it's because of budget constraint why not play the qualifiers first and then go ahead and invite the rest based on EPT points. Now this leads to a dilemma for the players. Players run the risk of not making it out of the qualifiers. And that risk is clearly not one they should take.
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Why is information about HSC on scboy forum? Doesn't make sense
@TakeTV / Naruto
Clarification please
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On November 04 2022 23:47 Harris1st wrote:
Why is information about HSC on scboy forum? Doesn't make sense
@TakeTV / Naruto
Clarification please
Hello, people who provided the source wanted me to have a post on SCboy forum at first but I do not have enough time to post it myself at first so I invited my friends to post it on the forum, after further discussion, he/she(the provider of the source) decided to post on both TL forum and SCboy forum to spread the message further. However I do not know how to use TL forum as it is the first time I am posting here so I quoted SCboy forum's link.
![[image loading]](https://s2.loli.net/2022/11/04/MGTedJ89WQnZYEl.png)
![[image loading]](https://s2.loli.net/2022/11/04/SMfARDxlXGbq2Pv.png)
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Also its the admission for reposting from the source provider ![[image loading]](https://s2.loli.net/2022/11/04/wOqMRietP8oyKLc.jpg)
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SC2 drama, finally
For real tho, it's so weird there is a difference depending of how you qualified
Was it also the case in the past?
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This makes sense to me. Give players the option to qualify based on EPT but encourage them to play through the qualifiers instead. I'll always favor anything that pushes players towards qualifiers rather than just straight up inviting them. Kind of weird to see HSC doing this though since it's historically just been an invite only tournament.
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Germany3367 Posts
I guess it just seems weird because being high in the EPT ranking and getting invited to things is supposed to be a reward, right? But in this case it feels more like a punishment with the additional cost involved. Not saying it's wrong to provide travel support to qualifier winners. The situation just shows that the available resources are rather scarce, I suppose.
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"why not play the qualifiers first and then go ahead and invite the rest based on EPT point"
that's basically what is happening. every player should simply play the qualifiers, then it plays out like that.
i
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Players leaking info before tournaments can announce things themselves / sort it out without public drama is fun.
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Hello everyone,
thanks for opening up this topic and i am happy to jump into this topic on a "highlevel" before NarutO is giving more Konext to the whole situation.
First of all:
We joined EPT with the HomeStoryCup to unite the SC2 Ecosystem more, cause the scene is becoming smaller and in our talks with ESL we decided that adding HSC would bring value to EPT and more chances to earn points for the players.
Beside that it would also bring more traction to HomeStoryCup itself, which we thought would be a great idea.
We had great talks with Shopify back in the days, as we said, if we would join EPT and bring everyone through qualifier, it would be amazing go make Shopify the enabling partner to finance the travel / hotels etcpp. cause for 32 players this would be a BIG cost and make tons of players happy and give them the opporunity to come over.
Last HomeStoryCup we made really big losses cause of the extended cost of the travel / accomodation (cause of the WAY higher cost of travel and hotels) Back in the days when we agreed on the deal, we had a good calculation for everything, but as you know flights, hotel, food and everything else became way more costy....sadly!
For this season we discussed this with ESL to find a solution to still run this event with EPT points and asked for solutions and if thier is a way to not pay all 32 players all costs....and thier was a way, which is that the invited player don´t have to get paid by us (Cause this is the only way the ruleset allows it) - All qualified people need to get paid by the organizer which is us.
What we wanted to push and came along wrong probably is:
Please play the qualifier, everyone is allowed to play it and make it and get the trip paid!
If you DON´t make it, you can get invited by us, but then have to pay the trip by yourself, cause we basically don´t have the budget to make it work, but found it as the only possible "fair" way to make it work.
Which means, everyone gets the same chance to get a paid trip to the HSC and if you don´t make it, you can still get invited.
I want to highlight, that we are not the biggest fan of this solution, but the other solution from our understanding would be moving out of EPT fully, which we also thought about alot.
So far EPT came with a lot of compromises for us and even downsides, that at our last HSC GSL was moved "last minute" aswell and we lost tons of great korean players and had even more cost of cancelation etcpp.
I hope this clears up the situation for everyone and it is not a punishment for the invited players.
I think cause this is absoltuely new for us aswell and time was running aswell, our communication could have been better to clarify what we wanna achieve and whats the idea behind it.
If you have any more questions, feel free to reach out to me, much love <3
PS:
What i dislike a lot is that the people / players / management that feels wrong about it, is not trying to solve it with us directly and we have to solve it through a forum / socialmedia or whatsoever.
We have nothing to hide and the ultimate goal for TaKeTV and our HomeStoryCup was always to support the scene and have a great experience for everyone who loves Starcraft II and it has been a high effort and cost almost ever since to run this event, but we / i started my company with doing awesome SC2 Content and this community helped me to be at this point nowadays, so that we always want to give back.
So feel free to reach out to us 
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On November 04 2022 23:26 ciwomuli wrote:
I don't know what the organizers are thinking. If it's because of budget constraint why not play the qualifiers first and then go ahead and invite the rest based on EPT points. Now this leads to a dilemma for the players. Players run the risk of not making it out of the qualifiers. And that risk is clearly not one they should take.
This would have been a great solution without actually changing anything about financial issues.
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Hello.
This is NarutO. Besides what TaKe already mentioned I just want to sum it up real quick. I am sorry that there was miscommunication and an unfortunate solution. After speaking with everyone again we'll change to the more fitting (and suggested) system:
qualifiers first (paid accomodation/travel)
invite by EPT ranking after
I do hope the people that get invited later on have the support/teams/money to actually travel to HSC. Just adding this thought for the people to understand there was no ill will: Having the invited players not supported meant that qualified players with smaller teams might have the chance to travel instead of declining due to money-issues. I understand this wasn't the best solution.
I hope this is all solved with this.
Edit: After todays show I'll go ahead and will have to revoke the invites made; obviously unpleasant but I hope people will understand.
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The current players are preparing IEM Katowice.
In this competition, where the winner's EPT Point is 500, there should be no situation where players' results will be turned upside down by any means other than their skill.
We believe the Organization will be able to design this and proceed in a way that all participants can understand. I want the worries of many players to end.
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As a viewer, who likes the korean scene, it doesn't sound like a very good solution for me.
Homestory-Cup NOW is a tournament, which gives Global Ept Points, so there should be a balanced level of participating players from all the regions.
What will happen here, is that we have 6 qualified korean players, which get a paid trip. The other 6 invited koreans might not come, because price money will be low compared to the trip costs from korea.
So we might end up with a 32 players tournament with only 6 koreans. Compared to the strenght of the area thats discriminating, since it should be a GLOBAL event (as the points say).
Since it seems, that there is not enough money to pay all the players, I see two options here:
- Make the tournament smaller (16 players instead of 32)
- Back out from the circuit and give no EPT Points - then you can invite whomever you want!
Edit: Sry for the double post!
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On November 05 2022 04:21 tincer wrote:
As a viewer, who likes the korean scene, it doesn't sound like a very good solution for me.
Homestory-Cup NOW is a tournament, which gives Global Ept Points, so there should be a balanced level of participating players from all the regions.
What will happen here, is that we have 6 qualified korean players, which get a paid trip. The other 6 invited koreans might not come, because price money will be low compared to the trip costs from korea.
So we might end up with a 32 players tournament with only 6 koreans. Compared to the strenght of the area thats discriminating, since it should be a GLOBAL event (as the points say).
Since it seems, that there is not enough money to pay all the players, I see two options here:
- Make the tournament smaller (16 players instead of 32)
- Back out from the circuit and give no EPT Points - then you can invite whomever you want!
Edit: Sry for the double post!
It is the same system as both Dreamhack Events. 16 players are qualified and receive paid travel while the others are open signup though and need to cover their own costs. Not sure if you are aware of that.
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We know that the 16 players of DreamHack have paid travel and it is according to their results. The paid travel is prior to the upper players with their records, further, they should not have a disadvantage when the tournament has EPT point to change extremely their Katowice Situation.
Completely agree about present mention: It is acceptable when the tournament has no ept point or qualifier players and invitation players have same supports. There is no reason for good players to endure this situation to give a damage to Katowice System regardless of their will or skill.
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On November 05 2022 04:41 TeamNVKR wrote:
We know that the 16 players of DreamHack have paid travel and it is according to their results. The paid travel is prior to the upper players with their records, further, they should not have a disadvantage when the tournament has EPT point to change extremely their Katowice Situation.
Completely agree about present mention: It is acceptable when the tournament has no ept point or qualifier players and invitation players have same supports. There is no reason for good players to endure this situation to give a damage to Katowice System regardless of their will or skill.
Please read what we/I wrote. My reply was towards the previous poster. And we use the same system as Dreamhack.
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System in DreamHack I know is that the Upper rank players from GSL or DreamHack regional have the support for travel.
The Same system with DreamHack means that the upper rank players have advantages regardless of result of qualifier right? Guarantees the paid travel to them and the qualifier situation would be after the invite.
We want to make it correct
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On November 05 2022 04:54 TeamNVKR wrote:
System in DreamHack I know is that the Upper rank players from GSL or DreamHack regional have the support for travel.
The Same system with DreamHack means that the upper rank players have advantages regardless of result of qualifier right? Guarantees the paid travel to them and the qualifier situation would be after the invite.
We want to make it correct
There is no ''correct'' in this.. Just a preferred way of doing things? Let TakeTV run their tournament the way they see fit, with the necessary critiques and feedback from players, teams and fans. The final decision lies with them.
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On November 05 2022 04:41 TeamNVKR wrote:
We know that the 16 players of DreamHack have paid travel and it is according to their results. The paid travel is prior to the upper players with their records, further, they should not have a disadvantage when the tournament has EPT point to change extremely their Katowice Situation.
Completely agree about present mention: It is acceptable when the tournament has no ept point or qualifier players and invitation players have same supports. There is no reason for good players to endure this situation to give a damage to Katowice System regardless of their will or skill.
Although I also do not like this change, but the impact of KR players not able to travel due to lack of accomodation and missing out on EPT pts is VERY minimal. The reason being that KR players got 4 extra spots in IEM in addition to the regular number of spots (5 + 7) due to winning GSL and DH Valencia.
Plus, players like Reynor and Astrea should be qualified into IEM through their EU/NA region spots instead of KR so that means 2 more spots should be available for KR players. That means MOST of active players in KR should be able to play in IEM regardless of what happen in the coming HSC. The seeding will obviously will be messed up a little bit but that should not matter much because seeding of group or bracket in IEM has been a joke (see this past IEM where Maru, Clem and Reynor are top players at each of tier and get put into the same group anyway).
So, yeah, no point to panic about it for KR players participate in IEM.
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On November 05 2022 04:54 TeamNVKR wrote:
System in DreamHack I know is that the Upper rank players from GSL or DreamHack regional have the support for travel.
The Same system with DreamHack means that the upper rank players have advantages regardless of result of qualifier right? Guarantees the paid travel to them and the qualifier situation would be after the invite.
We want to make it correct
The system @ Dreamhack says: 16 players are qualified and receive travel support. Everyone else is OPEN sign-up.
For HSC we will use qualified players (6 KR, 6 EU, 2 NA, 1 of each other region) and travel support. (18).
The other 14 players are 'INVITED' / qualified based on their EPT ranking AFTER qualifiers and have to cover their own trip.
For example:
Maru
Dark
herO
Creator
RagnaroK
ByuN
DRG
Rogue
Solar
Bunny
GuMiHo
Astrea (ALREADY NA)
Cure
Lets say:
Maru, herO, Creator Rogue, Solar and Bunny qualify. = paid travel.
DARK, RagnaroK, ByuN, DRG, GuMiHo & Cure would receive invite due to EPT points (current situation) = no paid travel. That is the same as "open signup" with Dreamhack, but we don't have an open qualification but a EPT ranked system that will qualify players to play.
We understand that in a perfect scenario, 32 players would receive paid travel but its impossible. This is not mandatory/no requirement for the tournament based on EPT ruling though. Same as Dreamhack only provides travel support for 16 qualified and offers an open-signup. If you don't have the money, the open signup also favors players with teams/money over players that cannot afford it. Its not perfect either.
I hope this clears this up.
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Players are in hard competitions to advance IEM Katowice and HSC is the official tournament to make big effects to their ranks. If these big tournaments make an confusion to the rank according to pariticipate, Players would have an large damage for their effort.
This is an important championship, Many players are worried about this situation. Players hope to be admitted their pariticipate in respect by their result, if there is no special, Just want to be equal compared to qulaifier. Financial damage is so large to participate if they are not qulalifiered but this official tournament could change all of situation for Katowice.
And, Korean players are wondering that any korean player could not response to invite, those seats would be changed to qualifier or other regional players have that invitation.
+ Now, there is a hard competition in KR progressing, Advancing to directly main stage or going to Round of 36 is the hot topic among themselves. Advancing to Katowice, Main stage or Round of 36, Everything can be decided
+ As you know, DreamHack 16 Players had the paid travel but they did not qualify. They had the advantages according to the related season result. They are respected to their achivement in the next and related tournament .
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On November 05 2022 05:01 TeamNVKR wrote:
Players are in hard competitions to advance IEM Katowice and HSC is the official tournament to make big effects to their ranks. If these big tournaments make an confusion to the rank according to pariticipate, Players would have an large damage for their effort.
This is an important championship, Many players are worried about this situation. Players hope to be admitted their pariticipate in respect by their result, if there is no special, Just want to be equal compared to qulaifier. Financial damage is so large to participate if they are not qulalifiered but this official tournament could change all of situation for Katowice.
And, Korean players are wondering that any korean player could not response to invite, those seats would be changed to qualifier or other regional players have that invitation.
+ Now, there is a hard competition in KR progressing, Advancing to directly main stage or going to Round of 36 is the hot topic among themselves. Advancing to Katowice, Main stage or Round of 36, Everything can be decided
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/602718-there-is-no-true-invitation-for-hscxii?page=2#27
does this resolve the issue for you ? If not I am not sure why you are only looking to criticize HSC but not the whole circuit system?
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On November 05 2022 04:32 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2022 04:21 tincer wrote:
As a viewer, who likes the korean scene, it doesn't sound like a very good solution for me.
Homestory-Cup NOW is a tournament, which gives Global Ept Points, so there should be a balanced level of participating players from all the regions.
What will happen here, is that we have 6 qualified korean players, which get a paid trip. The other 6 invited koreans might not come, because price money will be low compared to the trip costs from korea.
So we might end up with a 32 players tournament with only 6 koreans. Compared to the strenght of the area thats discriminating, since it should be a GLOBAL event (as the points say).
Since it seems, that there is not enough money to pay all the players, I see two options here:
- Make the tournament smaller (16 players instead of 32)
- Back out from the circuit and give no EPT Points - then you can invite whomever you want!
Edit: Sry for the double post! It is the same system as both Dreamhack Events. 16 players are qualified and receive paid travel while the others are open signup though and need to cover their own costs. Not sure if you are aware of that.
No, I did not know that.
Also: Thanks for all your work with organizing Sc2-Tournaments. I'm watching Sc2 since the very beginning and am very happy, that there is still a scene!
Still: Doesn't have to be a good solution, only cause Dreamhack does it the same way. I can understand players complaining.
Anyways: Looking forward for the tournament and I'm going to drag some people into watching it! KR fighting!!! 🙃
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On November 05 2022 05:01 TeamNVKR wrote:
+ As you know, DreamHack 16 Players had the paid travel but they did not qualify. They had the advantages according to the related season result. They are respected to their achivement in the next and related tournament .
This is untrue. The players can qualify for the regions and the regionals are used as qualification for the main Atlanta event as can be seen here:
 ESL Pro Tour/2022/23/Masters/Atlanta/Regionals
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On November 05 2022 05:17 tincer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2022 04:32 TaKeTV wrote:On November 05 2022 04:21 tincer wrote:
As a viewer, who likes the korean scene, it doesn't sound like a very good solution for me.
Homestory-Cup NOW is a tournament, which gives Global Ept Points, so there should be a balanced level of participating players from all the regions.
What will happen here, is that we have 6 qualified korean players, which get a paid trip. The other 6 invited koreans might not come, because price money will be low compared to the trip costs from korea.
So we might end up with a 32 players tournament with only 6 koreans. Compared to the strenght of the area thats discriminating, since it should be a GLOBAL event (as the points say).
Since it seems, that there is not enough money to pay all the players, I see two options here:
- Make the tournament smaller (16 players instead of 32)
- Back out from the circuit and give no EPT Points - then you can invite whomever you want!
Edit: Sry for the double post! It is the same system as both Dreamhack Events. 16 players are qualified and receive paid travel while the others are open signup though and need to cover their own costs. Not sure if you are aware of that. No, I did not know that. Also: Thanks for all your work with organizing Sc2-Tournaments. I'm watching Sc2 since the very beginning and am very happy, that there is still a scene! Still: Doesn't have to be a good solution, only cause Dreamhack does it the same way. I can understand players complaining. Anyways: Looking forward for the tournament and I'm going to drag some people into watching it! KR fighting!!! 🙃
The alternative is not paying anyone to travel which is far from perfect but at least fair. Unfortunately that isn't intented by the EPT circuit ruling. We understand and would love to support all 32 players with travel but that simply doesn't work / isnt manageable for us.
Cutting the tournament to 16 players as was suggested previously simply cuts out more players to begin with so I don't see how this would solve anything. (wasn't suggested by you I believe).
Also thank you for the feedback. WE are never angry about feedback. We try to find the best solution and sometimes there is no PERFECT solution (or no perfect viable solution)
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Yes. As you showed!
KR region is top 6 of GSL S3, and EU/NA/Other regions are same system. Those players recorded the achivement and they are respected by that to DremHack with paid travel!
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On November 05 2022 05:21 TeamNVKR wrote:
Yes. As you showed!
KR region is top 6 of GSL S3, and EU/NA/Other regions are same system. Those players recorded the achivement and they are respected by that to DremHack with paid travel!
You can have a very high ranking in EPT and still don't qualify for Atlanta. Last Dreamhack Serral failed to qualify for Dreamhack, because he lost to HeroMarine. He would not have gotten travel support. It is just a bigger qualification process.
For HSC you will have several qualifiers per region and if you place highly there, you qualify and get support. The only difference is that after qualification, we reward players that are highly ranked in EPT and give them a chance to travel (without support). This benefits them, because it only excludes other (lower tier players). While in Atlanta, lower-tier players could also travel.
I still don't understand the criticism here. In any case, this is the solution that will be used and I hope we could clear up all or most of it.
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Ok, Thanks for invitation.
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This doesn't really seem like a big controversy. It seems like it's being handled well and everybody is trying to make things as fair as possible. I hope that high-ranked players who can get their travel expenses covered by their teams will take the invites so that the qualifier spots can go to the players who need them.
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I want to invite TaKeTV join a party hold on my home,China.But I can't afford the travel fees,sorry.
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Seems like a fair solution! Everyone has a shot at getting their flight paid for.
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So is the qualifier going to be region-locked?
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On November 05 2022 22:08 tigera6 wrote:
So is the qualifier going to be region-locked?
Yes. EPT ruling requires region based qualifiers. (And would allow to add global ones)
6 slots EU
6 slots KR
2 slots NA
1 slot each CN - OCE - TW/HK - LA
after qualifiers:
6 highest EPT players from: EU and KR are allowed to travel to HSC on their own costs as well as 2 from NA.
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I actually don't see a problem with this. It's way better than how HSC used to do things just handing out arbitrary invitation spots.
Qualifying players get the preferential treatment, as long as the tournament is open and anyone can qualify for their region, then this is how things should be. Filling up the tournament via EPT points afterward makes sense. No one is gonna go unless it's convenient for them or if they desperately need the points to qualify for Katowice. This also makes sense to me.
All in all I think this is a good look for HSC.
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On November 07 2022 03:33 Vindicare605 wrote:
I actually don't see a problem with this. It's way better than how HSC used to do things just handing out arbitrary invitation spots.
Qualifying players get the preferential treatment, as long as the tournament is open and anyone can qualify for their region, then this is how things should be. Filling up the tournament via EPT points afterward makes sense. No one is gonna go unless it's convenient for them or if they desperately need the points to qualify for Katowice. This also makes sense to me.
All in all I think this is a good look for HSC.
I think so too. I also don't really understand the critique. Of course, it would be awesome if every player could enjoy covered travel and lodging. But I doubt that's the norm for tournaments, even though I don't know.
Anyway, I'm very happy and grateful TakeTV still makes HSCs happen. Thank you, TakeTV Team & anybody making HSC possible <3
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Thanks for the honest feedback. We always appreciate it
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On November 05 2022 02:22 WardiTV wrote:
Players leaking info before tournaments can announce things themselves / sort it out without public drama is fun.
The tournament is responsible. How they structure things, whom they trust, ect... this is all on them.
None of this had to happen and only the tournament is responsible.
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Apologies if you explained it already, but why not use the DH Valencia model where the initial phase is online and the final phase is offline? Then all the finalists get their travel costs paid and the bar for entry is lower.
Also, why are there so few Koreans accepting invites?
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On December 08 2022 11:44 lurker33112 wrote:
Apologies if you explained it already, but why not use the DH Valencia model where the initial phase is online and the final phase is offline? Then all the finalists get their travel costs paid and the bar for entry is lower.
Also, why are there so few Koreans accepting invites?
I will start by saying:
+ Show Spoiler +I am happy they are doing whatever it takes to get 32 players there :D
Forgive me if I am wrong, as I am just a viewer.
However, Dreamhack seems to follow a very standard tournament-style environment.
Homestory cup is more of an event and experience for the players and the viewers.
Die-hard fanning spoiler box:
+ Show Spoiler +The only thing standard about Homestory cup is the event it self, and it's only standard is normalized by the many homestory cups before it.
I love homestory cup. I love the energy. I love the casting couch, I love the player interactions, and I feel like I am there with my favorite players, even though I am sitting at home watching the action unfold on a computer monitor.
This atmosphere, at least from my viewer perspective, has to be just as amazing in person as part-taking in the actual event is, and there in lies why people may be more willing to pay to go even when the points don't matter.
I believe that the organizers know this, based on the amount of work they put into the tournament, and they want to invite 32 players, and if that means everyone declines until some low GM, one-off winner with half an EPT gets an invite, then I am about to learn about a new player, and that is exciting!
In my biased opinion, solely based on watching many StarCraft 2 events, I think the answer to your question:
To preserve the overall experience. (I hope it is as enjoyable for the players as it is for me as a viewer.)
So how biased am I?
If I was told I could only ever watch one more live starcraft 2 event, hands down, homestory cup.
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United States33420 Posts
renamed and closed thread because this is literally semantics
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EPT
