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On November 05 2022 04:21 tincer wrote:
As a viewer, who likes the korean scene, it doesn't sound like a very good solution for me.
Homestory-Cup NOW is a tournament, which gives Global Ept Points, so there should be a balanced level of participating players from all the regions.
What will happen here, is that we have 6 qualified korean players, which get a paid trip. The other 6 invited koreans might not come, because price money will be low compared to the trip costs from korea.
So we might end up with a 32 players tournament with only 6 koreans. Compared to the strenght of the area thats discriminating, since it should be a GLOBAL event (as the points say).
Since it seems, that there is not enough money to pay all the players, I see two options here:
- Make the tournament smaller (16 players instead of 32)
- Back out from the circuit and give no EPT Points - then you can invite whomever you want!
Edit: Sry for the double post!
It is the same system as both Dreamhack Events. 16 players are qualified and receive paid travel while the others are open signup though and need to cover their own costs. Not sure if you are aware of that.
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We know that the 16 players of DreamHack have paid travel and it is according to their results. The paid travel is prior to the upper players with their records, further, they should not have a disadvantage when the tournament has EPT point to change extremely their Katowice Situation.
Completely agree about present mention: It is acceptable when the tournament has no ept point or qualifier players and invitation players have same supports. There is no reason for good players to endure this situation to give a damage to Katowice System regardless of their will or skill.
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On November 05 2022 04:41 TeamNVKR wrote:
We know that the 16 players of DreamHack have paid travel and it is according to their results. The paid travel is prior to the upper players with their records, further, they should not have a disadvantage when the tournament has EPT point to change extremely their Katowice Situation.
Completely agree about present mention: It is acceptable when the tournament has no ept point or qualifier players and invitation players have same supports. There is no reason for good players to endure this situation to give a damage to Katowice System regardless of their will or skill.
Please read what we/I wrote. My reply was towards the previous poster. And we use the same system as Dreamhack.
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System in DreamHack I know is that the Upper rank players from GSL or DreamHack regional have the support for travel.
The Same system with DreamHack means that the upper rank players have advantages regardless of result of qualifier right? Guarantees the paid travel to them and the qualifier situation would be after the invite.
We want to make it correct
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On November 05 2022 04:54 TeamNVKR wrote:
System in DreamHack I know is that the Upper rank players from GSL or DreamHack regional have the support for travel.
The Same system with DreamHack means that the upper rank players have advantages regardless of result of qualifier right? Guarantees the paid travel to them and the qualifier situation would be after the invite.
We want to make it correct
There is no ''correct'' in this.. Just a preferred way of doing things? Let TakeTV run their tournament the way they see fit, with the necessary critiques and feedback from players, teams and fans. The final decision lies with them.
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On November 05 2022 04:41 TeamNVKR wrote:
We know that the 16 players of DreamHack have paid travel and it is according to their results. The paid travel is prior to the upper players with their records, further, they should not have a disadvantage when the tournament has EPT point to change extremely their Katowice Situation.
Completely agree about present mention: It is acceptable when the tournament has no ept point or qualifier players and invitation players have same supports. There is no reason for good players to endure this situation to give a damage to Katowice System regardless of their will or skill.
Although I also do not like this change, but the impact of KR players not able to travel due to lack of accomodation and missing out on EPT pts is VERY minimal. The reason being that KR players got 4 extra spots in IEM in addition to the regular number of spots (5 + 7) due to winning GSL and DH Valencia.
Plus, players like Reynor and Astrea should be qualified into IEM through their EU/NA region spots instead of KR so that means 2 more spots should be available for KR players. That means MOST of active players in KR should be able to play in IEM regardless of what happen in the coming HSC. The seeding will obviously will be messed up a little bit but that should not matter much because seeding of group or bracket in IEM has been a joke (see this past IEM where Maru, Clem and Reynor are top players at each of tier and get put into the same group anyway).
So, yeah, no point to panic about it for KR players participate in IEM.
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On November 05 2022 04:54 TeamNVKR wrote:
System in DreamHack I know is that the Upper rank players from GSL or DreamHack regional have the support for travel.
The Same system with DreamHack means that the upper rank players have advantages regardless of result of qualifier right? Guarantees the paid travel to them and the qualifier situation would be after the invite.
We want to make it correct
The system @ Dreamhack says: 16 players are qualified and receive travel support. Everyone else is OPEN sign-up.
For HSC we will use qualified players (6 KR, 6 EU, 2 NA, 1 of each other region) and travel support. (18).
The other 14 players are 'INVITED' / qualified based on their EPT ranking AFTER qualifiers and have to cover their own trip.
For example:
Maru
Dark
herO
Creator
RagnaroK
ByuN
DRG
Rogue
Solar
Bunny
GuMiHo
Astrea (ALREADY NA)
Cure
Lets say:
Maru, herO, Creator Rogue, Solar and Bunny qualify. = paid travel.
DARK, RagnaroK, ByuN, DRG, GuMiHo & Cure would receive invite due to EPT points (current situation) = no paid travel. That is the same as "open signup" with Dreamhack, but we don't have an open qualification but a EPT ranked system that will qualify players to play.
We understand that in a perfect scenario, 32 players would receive paid travel but its impossible. This is not mandatory/no requirement for the tournament based on EPT ruling though. Same as Dreamhack only provides travel support for 16 qualified and offers an open-signup. If you don't have the money, the open signup also favors players with teams/money over players that cannot afford it. Its not perfect either.
I hope this clears this up.
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Players are in hard competitions to advance IEM Katowice and HSC is the official tournament to make big effects to their ranks. If these big tournaments make an confusion to the rank according to pariticipate, Players would have an large damage for their effort.
This is an important championship, Many players are worried about this situation. Players hope to be admitted their pariticipate in respect by their result, if there is no special, Just want to be equal compared to qulaifier. Financial damage is so large to participate if they are not qulalifiered but this official tournament could change all of situation for Katowice.
And, Korean players are wondering that any korean player could not response to invite, those seats would be changed to qualifier or other regional players have that invitation.
+ Now, there is a hard competition in KR progressing, Advancing to directly main stage or going to Round of 36 is the hot topic among themselves. Advancing to Katowice, Main stage or Round of 36, Everything can be decided
+ As you know, DreamHack 16 Players had the paid travel but they did not qualify. They had the advantages according to the related season result. They are respected to their achivement in the next and related tournament .
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On November 05 2022 05:01 TeamNVKR wrote:
Players are in hard competitions to advance IEM Katowice and HSC is the official tournament to make big effects to their ranks. If these big tournaments make an confusion to the rank according to pariticipate, Players would have an large damage for their effort.
This is an important championship, Many players are worried about this situation. Players hope to be admitted their pariticipate in respect by their result, if there is no special, Just want to be equal compared to qulaifier. Financial damage is so large to participate if they are not qulalifiered but this official tournament could change all of situation for Katowice.
And, Korean players are wondering that any korean player could not response to invite, those seats would be changed to qualifier or other regional players have that invitation.
+ Now, there is a hard competition in KR progressing, Advancing to directly main stage or going to Round of 36 is the hot topic among themselves. Advancing to Katowice, Main stage or Round of 36, Everything can be decided
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/602718-there-is-no-true-invitation-for-hscxii?page=2#27
does this resolve the issue for you ? If not I am not sure why you are only looking to criticize HSC but not the whole circuit system?
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On November 05 2022 04:32 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2022 04:21 tincer wrote:
As a viewer, who likes the korean scene, it doesn't sound like a very good solution for me.
Homestory-Cup NOW is a tournament, which gives Global Ept Points, so there should be a balanced level of participating players from all the regions.
What will happen here, is that we have 6 qualified korean players, which get a paid trip. The other 6 invited koreans might not come, because price money will be low compared to the trip costs from korea.
So we might end up with a 32 players tournament with only 6 koreans. Compared to the strenght of the area thats discriminating, since it should be a GLOBAL event (as the points say).
Since it seems, that there is not enough money to pay all the players, I see two options here:
- Make the tournament smaller (16 players instead of 32)
- Back out from the circuit and give no EPT Points - then you can invite whomever you want!
Edit: Sry for the double post! It is the same system as both Dreamhack Events. 16 players are qualified and receive paid travel while the others are open signup though and need to cover their own costs. Not sure if you are aware of that.
No, I did not know that.
Also: Thanks for all your work with organizing Sc2-Tournaments. I'm watching Sc2 since the very beginning and am very happy, that there is still a scene!
Still: Doesn't have to be a good solution, only cause Dreamhack does it the same way. I can understand players complaining.
Anyways: Looking forward for the tournament and I'm going to drag some people into watching it! KR fighting!!! 🙃
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On November 05 2022 05:01 TeamNVKR wrote:
+ As you know, DreamHack 16 Players had the paid travel but they did not qualify. They had the advantages according to the related season result. They are respected to their achivement in the next and related tournament .
This is untrue. The players can qualify for the regions and the regionals are used as qualification for the main Atlanta event as can be seen here:
 ESL Pro Tour/2022/23/Masters/Atlanta/Regionals
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On November 05 2022 05:17 tincer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2022 04:32 TaKeTV wrote:On November 05 2022 04:21 tincer wrote:
As a viewer, who likes the korean scene, it doesn't sound like a very good solution for me.
Homestory-Cup NOW is a tournament, which gives Global Ept Points, so there should be a balanced level of participating players from all the regions.
What will happen here, is that we have 6 qualified korean players, which get a paid trip. The other 6 invited koreans might not come, because price money will be low compared to the trip costs from korea.
So we might end up with a 32 players tournament with only 6 koreans. Compared to the strenght of the area thats discriminating, since it should be a GLOBAL event (as the points say).
Since it seems, that there is not enough money to pay all the players, I see two options here:
- Make the tournament smaller (16 players instead of 32)
- Back out from the circuit and give no EPT Points - then you can invite whomever you want!
Edit: Sry for the double post! It is the same system as both Dreamhack Events. 16 players are qualified and receive paid travel while the others are open signup though and need to cover their own costs. Not sure if you are aware of that. No, I did not know that. Also: Thanks for all your work with organizing Sc2-Tournaments. I'm watching Sc2 since the very beginning and am very happy, that there is still a scene! Still: Doesn't have to be a good solution, only cause Dreamhack does it the same way. I can understand players complaining. Anyways: Looking forward for the tournament and I'm going to drag some people into watching it! KR fighting!!! 🙃
The alternative is not paying anyone to travel which is far from perfect but at least fair. Unfortunately that isn't intented by the EPT circuit ruling. We understand and would love to support all 32 players with travel but that simply doesn't work / isnt manageable for us.
Cutting the tournament to 16 players as was suggested previously simply cuts out more players to begin with so I don't see how this would solve anything. (wasn't suggested by you I believe).
Also thank you for the feedback. WE are never angry about feedback. We try to find the best solution and sometimes there is no PERFECT solution (or no perfect viable solution)
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Yes. As you showed!
KR region is top 6 of GSL S3, and EU/NA/Other regions are same system. Those players recorded the achivement and they are respected by that to DremHack with paid travel!
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On November 05 2022 05:21 TeamNVKR wrote:
Yes. As you showed!
KR region is top 6 of GSL S3, and EU/NA/Other regions are same system. Those players recorded the achivement and they are respected by that to DremHack with paid travel!
You can have a very high ranking in EPT and still don't qualify for Atlanta. Last Dreamhack Serral failed to qualify for Dreamhack, because he lost to HeroMarine. He would not have gotten travel support. It is just a bigger qualification process.
For HSC you will have several qualifiers per region and if you place highly there, you qualify and get support. The only difference is that after qualification, we reward players that are highly ranked in EPT and give them a chance to travel (without support). This benefits them, because it only excludes other (lower tier players). While in Atlanta, lower-tier players could also travel.
I still don't understand the criticism here. In any case, this is the solution that will be used and I hope we could clear up all or most of it.
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Ok, Thanks for invitation.
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This doesn't really seem like a big controversy. It seems like it's being handled well and everybody is trying to make things as fair as possible. I hope that high-ranked players who can get their travel expenses covered by their teams will take the invites so that the qualifier spots can go to the players who need them.
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I want to invite TaKeTV join a party hold on my home,China.But I can't afford the travel fees,sorry.
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Seems like a fair solution! Everyone has a shot at getting their flight paid for.
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So is the qualifier going to be region-locked?
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On November 05 2022 22:08 tigera6 wrote:
So is the qualifier going to be region-locked?
Yes. EPT ruling requires region based qualifiers. (And would allow to add global ones)
6 slots EU
6 slots KR
2 slots NA
1 slot each CN - OCE - TW/HK - LA
after qualifiers:
6 highest EPT players from: EU and KR are allowed to travel to HSC on their own costs as well as 2 from NA.
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EPT
