The problems I see with modern Broodwar vs 1998 - Page 3

On October 23 2021 02:10 Poopi wrote:
1999 Brood War Season 1 Ladder Tournament
Seems like the same guy, didn't get first place though

On October 23 2021 04:28 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
wtf I had no idea Medusa was already around in 1999! it's the only one that ended up being balanced probably because it has both closed in nats and no easy to abuse by T cliffs
and there are I think two 192x192 maps in there Acropolis and Polaris Prime

On October 23 2021 04:30 Puosu wrote:

lol its def not the same medusa

On October 23 2021 05:18 HaFnium wrote:


This is the 1999 medusa, they do look quite similar

+ Show Spoiler +

On October 23 2021 23:34 Highgamer wrote:


How on earth do they look similar in any way - other than the tileset?

Medusa

On October 24 2021 01:14 M3t4PhYzX wrote:

yeah.. idk what these guys are smoking.. but must be some strong shit

On October 23 2021 22:25 flashimba wrote:
Hey, it's the fast takes more skill meme guy!

For reference: https://reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/jrg60t/starcraft_1_was_more_fun_on_fast_small_maps_and/

"Great job! Ok, you answered em all right, you have a few minutes. Want to end the exam?". I turned the page, "invented division" reasoning it the reverse of multiplication and answered about 12 questions right. The IQ examiners got a fear in their eyes, looked at each other, closed up the book and left.

They would not tell me my IQ, afraid I'd get mind trippin. But they put me in gifted which was awesome! I got lots of friends in that.

I've been coding since 4 yrs old and at 15, tried to make the world's first MMORPG for a few years, before Ultima Online came out and I got into Starcraft.

On the SAT, I think I only missed 1 or 2.

At Carnegie Mellon a #1 world school for sciences at one of the highest levels of physics in my senior year, we were doing rocket science problems. My peers, also the smartest of smart were taking 1.5 hours to do questions and there were 20 of them, so they all fretted they wouldn't get it done before turn in. Besides they got em wrong half the time. They said,"Jim! Why ain't you doing homework? You gonna fail! You have no clue how hard these problems are! Look and try then get to work!" I was given the book, and answered all 20 in a total of 20 minutes total instead of their eta 20 hours. I did em all in my head. They gave me the same look of fear the IQ examiners did.

Anyway God made me this way for a reason. I just tell people Jesus is real and we need to love and not hate.

On October 22 2021 01:53 CrazyJim wrote:
Hello,

This is CrazyJim, a #1 ladder in both Broodwar and Starcraft Van back in 1998-1999 as Protoss and Terran. I was a top zerg too, but didn't enjoy the feel as much as P/T.

I quit Broodwar in the end of 1999 because of win trades, hackers, and was so upset, I studied how to stop this. I emailed blizzard back in the day talking about a "Player police tool to report possible offenders, and arranged match making system." I wasn't aware tournaments were even going on in Korea for years. I thought hackers and win traders killed the game. I was playing Asheron's Call and selling loot on ebay : ) I was the guy who wrote the original macro bots that got people automatically playing the MMO when they slept so when they woke up they had more experience/skills.

I got the Broodwar remastered, but did not like it and I'll explain why:

#1 Small maps or at least rush distances are imperative to keep early pressure on your opponent so they don't do what everyone does in Starcraft 2 of making 3 bases, 200 supply army while defending and drinking an iced tea. Ask casters like Nathanias why he doesn't play SC2 much anymore. It ain't fun to just mine out the whole map for an hour or more and win.

The rush is integral for Starcraft's tech system and macro system to be limited. No pressure, and you have infinite tech and macro. Game designers take things to extremes to weigh if it is good or bad. Imagine a map 20x as big as the largest map you ever played. Would you open the game cutting probes and send your first zealot wandering around for 15 minutes scouting? Nah, you just take like 5 bases while teching like a mad man. That ain't Starcraft. Large maps in 1v1 is one reason why I don't like SC2 and one reason SC1 is not as fun for me any more.

#2 Spider cannons(aka spider mines). Spider mines should be Destroyable by 1 Dragoon almost 100% of the time if the Dragoon is nearby. Right now, Vultures can launch spider cannons right at dragoons to such effect that if the Dragoon does not micro like a crazed idiot, the 75 mineral unit decisively wins vs the 125 mineral 50 gas unit designed to counter Vulture's basic attack type.

The problem is that you combine the longer rush distances we had back in 1998 like River Styx to these 6 player yolo maps, and no one is doing the t1 6marine+4scv vs 3-4 zealot dances anymore. It is almost a universally bad game design to have a higher tier tech be so op that people skip lower tech to rush to it and it always be the right choice. So people are skipping out on zealots and rines, cuz spider cannons are so flippin op.

Solution: Spider mines should be armed with +2 to 3 second burrowing and +2 second before arming when burrowed. In this manner cannot be used "IN YO FACE" offensively.

Terran would take a hit in power, so you'll need to buff them elsewhere. I have a really detailed rundown of how to do this, but it'd make this post too spammy, and besides, I wouldn't trust modern Blizzard to balance a bicycle let alone a brush up a masterpiece.

#3 Faster/Fastest. People think the faster the game, the more skill it takes, right? Wrong. Imagine if the game was 100000x faster than it is now. Then by their logic, it'd take more skill, but the way to win would just be to rally probes to every starting position with attack move. GG. No Re.

When I played on Fast, I literally built my base at the EXACT same time I microed very large battles. The technique was to trick their focus into the battle and slowly retreat , but stay stickied to them so they needed to pay attention. By choosing the ebb and flow of battle with your base building, extended nonsense battles normally meant they had nothing built in base. Of course this was conditional on the game state, but it was super powerful.

Now when fastest came around, people just focused on cranking out army, then chose when to come all in and attack like nubs. I still won a lot on fastest/faster, but it was really a lower skill level game. Just like larger maps is a lower skill cap game. Just like all the rush defense they put in SC2 makes it a lower skill cap game.

These are the problems I see with Modern Broodwar vs 1998 broodwar. Broodwar is still kinda an okay game. But bring back fast mode, or at least just small maps, and nerf spider cannons, and I'd actually play the beast again.

,CrazyJim

On October 23 2021 23:34 Highgamer wrote:


How on earth do they look similar in any way - other than the tileset?

Medusa