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TLADT24920 Posts
While likely not your intention Travis, when I read the OP, the first thought I got was that you were thinking this was some doomsday scenario and attributing conspiracy series where there is likely none. Several people have commented on the numbers so I don't have much to add there. In terms of morality, last I checked, it was along the lines of 2% and if I recall properly, SARS was 10%. Not sure what MERS was, but I believe much closer to SARS or more than less. For now, the best thing everyone can do is wash their hands, keep their distance from sick folks and go about living their daily life as they have been. Panicking is the last thing one should be doing and from that perspective, this thread feels like an alarmists' dream lol.
On February 19 2020 14:48 xM(Z wrote:
i'm not seeing info on the actual virus in here or, the topic seems to be about everything but the virus.
where does it come from?, how and why it came to be?, are people out there that do not get infected even when exposed?, are the casualties people with underlying health issues only?, does it do cold climates?, does it immunize(?) people that were infected and pulled through? , etcetcetc.
comparing it with sars and mars, how does it look?.
From my understanding, at first they were talking about snakes to bats transfer or something, but the latest was that it was from pangolins which are used in Chinese medicine. If you want more information, this article I found has some for you from a reputable source: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00364-2. As mentioned, Wuhan in China seems like where it originated which is also why China tried to do a mass quarantine: https://www.businessinsider.com/wuhan-coronavirus-officials-quarantine-entire-city-2020-1
Why it came? Much like SARS, MERS, H1N1, avian flu etc... came, so did it lol. There's also been some conspiracy theories about this being manufactured by a certain country and released or that it escaped from some Chinese lab, but I'm not interested in going into that route. Not sure on the exposed but not infected part since I haven't really kept up, but so far, it seems like most people pull through with the most at risk of complications having pre-existing conditions. I say most since I vaguely recall a healthy 40+ year old guy dying, but more times than not, it's the elderly or those who are already sick.
They have already sequenced the virus afaik too. Now, in terms of treatment, there was a reported case in Thailand where they used a combination of flu med and 2 antivirals and the 74 year old women within 12 hours was feeling much better and could move and such again, but I haven't heard more information about that since. It's quite the interesting cocktail of meds, but quite expensive too: https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1860329/woman-74-recovers-from-virus-after-thai-cocktail
"According to Mr Sathit, the woman was first treated with two anti-HIV medications -- lopinavir and ritonavir -- for five days, but failed to recover. Doctors at Rajvithi Hospital then added the flu drug oseltamivir to her prescription, leading to a marked improvement. Her severe pneumonia abated in 8-12 hours, and after 48 hours she tested negative for Covid-19.
She was given the cocktail of drugs for the next 10 days, and no trace of the virus was found in four subsequent tests over 20 days."
We'll probably get more information as time passes. There's also a long way to go and it's hard to tell where we are in terms of spread.
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I comes from bats. But the is theory that and other animals acts as link between bats and humans.
And they are trying to figure out what animal. My hairdresser told me it was snakes, and people eat snakes i china, and snake eats bats so guess it would make sense. But seen nothing official besides bats.
Regarding the spread and probability to catch or spread corona. The super carrier in Europa infected 11 people over several days for me that doesn't sound highly infectious, but still enough that if a person infected get on the metro system (1 person that had been in china did do that in London) we could have an unstoppable outbreak.
Edit.: Someone beat me to the punch.
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There's been 1 confirmed case in Belgium so far. The guy was quarantained and treated for 14 days, then released. The media outlets made a big fuzz about this guy now being the 'safest person in Belgium' since he had 'really high antibodies' and 'was immune'.
I'm not too worried tbh.
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France12911 Posts
On February 19 2020 18:09 Laurens wrote:
There's been 1 confirmed case in Belgium so far. The guy was quarantained and treated for 14 days, then released. The media outlets made a big fuzz about this guy now being the 'safest person in Belgium' since he had 'really high antibodies' and 'was immune'.
I'm not too worried tbh.
I read somewhere that you can be contaminated again even if you had it before, not sure how true that is though :o.
SInce I'm in Europe there aren't a lot of cases there and I believe we can handle it pretty fine so I'm not really worried.
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Are we seriously at the point where "I read somewhere..." is worth posting?
There is so much misinformation and panic here. I expect this nonsense on Facebook, not TL. Your freaking hairdresser? Are you serious?
Close the thread, go read the WHO advisory and anything your local authorities have put out, and then go about your business. Qualifying wild rumours with "not sure how true that is" and "but seen nothing official" does not stop them being wild rumours.
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imo, that info about the virus should've been in the OP and not the finger pointing, quasi-hysteric lines i had to read through.
looking for more likewise info, i found: "Around the world, influenza remains a major killer. The past two flu seasons have been more severe than expected, said Michael Worobey, a co-author of the study and head of the University of Arizona's department of ecology and evolutionary biology. In the 2017-18 season, 80,000 people died in the U.S., more than in the swine flu pandemic of 2009, he said which to me says a lot about people ability to asses risks based on what's been pushed by the media and/or what's trending.
also A team that included some of the same UCLA and Arizona scientists reported in 2016 that exposure to influenza viruses during childhood gives people partial protection for the rest of their lives against distantly related influenza viruses. Biologists call the idea that past exposure to the flu virus determines a person's future response to infections "immunological imprinting."
overall, this seems to be blown out of proportion to me.
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On February 19 2020 20:08 xM(Z wrote:imo, that info about the virus should've been in the OP and not the finger pointing, quasi-hysteric lines i had to read through. looking for more likewise info, i found: " Show nested quote +Around the world, influenza remains a major killer. The past two flu seasons have been more severe than expected, said Michael Worobey, a co-author of the study and head of the University of Arizona's department of ecology and evolutionary biology. In the 2017-18 season, 80,000 people died in the U.S., more than in the swine flu pandemic of 2009, he said which to me says a lot about people ability to asses risks based on what's been pushed by the media and/or what's trending. also Show nested quote +A team that included some of the same UCLA and Arizona scientists reported in 2016 that exposure to influenza viruses during childhood gives people partial protection for the rest of their lives against distantly related influenza viruses. Biologists call the idea that past exposure to the flu virus determines a person's future response to infections "immunological imprinting." overall, this seems to be blown out of proportion to me.
To you, and a couple people above.
If people think I am inciting panic, that's on them, not me. How someone reacts to information isn't my fault, I am just trying to give people an opportunity.
And yeah if we're fortunate the virus itself won't be a big deal(outside of China). But this is a big deal economically already. Like, it's literally too late. We will already have a recession as a result of this, at best. Is that the end of the world? No. But people who read "end of the world" from my post actually have an issue with their own anxiety and then project it onto others.
To you specifically, you're normally less quick to judge a situation. The comparison to influenza is ridiculous, and all I am going to say is for you to go do more research, because I respect you and know you will if you want to.
Which lines are "quasi-hysteric" anyways?
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Northern Ireland26542 Posts
On February 19 2020 22:22 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2020 20:08 xM(Z wrote:imo, that info about the virus should've been in the OP and not the finger pointing, quasi-hysteric lines i had to read through. looking for more likewise info, i found: " Around the world, influenza remains a major killer. The past two flu seasons have been more severe than expected, said Michael Worobey, a co-author of the study and head of the University of Arizona's department of ecology and evolutionary biology. In the 2017-18 season, 80,000 people died in the U.S., more than in the swine flu pandemic of 2009, he said which to me says a lot about people ability to asses risks based on what's been pushed by the media and/or what's trending. also A team that included some of the same UCLA and Arizona scientists reported in 2016 that exposure to influenza viruses during childhood gives people partial protection for the rest of their lives against distantly related influenza viruses. Biologists call the idea that past exposure to the flu virus determines a person's future response to infections "immunological imprinting." overall, this seems to be blown out of proportion to me. To you, and a couple people above. If people think I am inciting panic, that's on them, not me. How someone reacts to information isn't my fault, I am just trying to give people an opportunity. And yeah if we're fortunate the virus itself won't be a big deal(outside of China). But this is a big deal economically already. Like, it's literally too late. We will already have a recession as a result of this, at best. Is that the end of the world? No. But people who read "end of the world" from my post actually have an issue with their own anxiety and then project it onto others. To you specifically, you're normally less quick to judge a situation. The comparison to influenza is ridiculous, and all I am going to say is for you to go do more research, because I respect you and know you will if you want to. Which lines are "quasi-hysteric" anyways?
1) China is in turmoil. Take the following with a grain of salt, the number could be inaccurate, but I have seen multiple reports that about half of their population is in some state of quarantine. Meaning, about 10% of the world's population is currently in quarantine. Actually stop and think about that for a minute.
2) The actions of the CCP in China, in combination with the virus, is creating civil unrest in China. It is possible we may see large political events and maybe even an attempt at revolution in China. But it is also important to ask why China is taking the extreme actions that it is in response to the virus.
Those parts I guess?
Adding a few qualifiers such as ‘take this with a pinch of salt’ doesn’t mind wipe people to the stuff you’re throwing out there.
Not that you yourself are doing this, but the ‘I’m just asking questions’ form of presentation is a staple of how conspiracy theorists frame things and ‘I’m not telling you to believe x’ does not stop many people believing errant nonsense or unsubstantiated rumours.
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You keep talking about a possible (global) governement conspiracy, an incoming pandemic, and now also an economic recession (or worse), and you're surprised people say you're inticing panic? While many things you say seem to be based on facts, the overall tone of your messaging is very much panic-heavy.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
Numbers - it's a new virus, the testing machinery isn't ready. Thus they test only what they can handle. China cannot handle the amount of suspicious people. So, the question is - who do you wanna test? The dead? The alive?  So, that's why and how the numbers "lie". Imagine they can handle 5k tests/day but since the virus is highly contagious and spreads like a wildfire they can have 10k/20k/80k(e.g.) daily increase in the group of people who "may have it but we can't tell". And of those people you want to test mostly the really sick people who have complications.
Quarantine - the virus has roughly 14-day long spread time when the contagious person isn't sick. On average this person can spread it to 4 - 8 people. Think about that.
The basic reproductive ratio(R0) is expected between 4 - 8 (flu is 2,5, ebola 1,5, mumps 5, chickenpox 10) and the number is still growing. The number means how many people can be infected on average by 1 infected person. The doubling time(the time in which the amount of sick people doubles in the early time of infection) is 6,2 days.
Just wanted to mention this. Should explain a lot. Sorry if it was already mentioned, but won't hurt to read it twice
Edit> the biggest obstacle is the up-to-14-day infection period when the infected person isn't showing any symptoms, that's the biggest issue currently AFAIK. (can be shorter than 14 days )
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On February 19 2020 22:41 PoulsenB wrote:
You keep talking about a possible (global) governement conspiracy, an incoming pandemic, and now also an economic recession (or worse), and you're surprised people say you're inticing panic? While many things you say seem to be based on facts, the overall tone of your messaging is very much panic-heavy.
Well, if you have any advice on how I can convey the exact same opinions without sounding as panic-heavy, I will take it to heart. But I've been trying. It's difficult to say the things I want to say without people receiving it that way.
Anyways my main goal is to get people's attention while not being dishonest to what I think, while simultaneously not trying to incite panic or fear. I feel like it's a difficult balancing act and it can also be tough because you end up getting a lot of shit for it when genuinely what I want is to help people. This topic may actually end up being really important for some people, but if I can't even get them to stop and start learning about it, then I will not be helping them.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
Also I would love to add that the later you get infected the bigger the chance to survival. The reason for this is that the evolution of viruses removes the most deadly strains so the infected can survive longer and infect more people.
This should calm things down 
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There are lots of data and other important info for this virus in the imgur link below.
Keep calm and carry on with your life. You have higher odds of getting into a car accident than this new virus strain.
https://imgur.com/gallery/Iu8Pat0
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TLADT24920 Posts
On February 19 2020 22:41 PoulsenB wrote:
You keep talking about a possible (global) governement conspiracy, an incoming pandemic, and now also an economic recession (or worse), and you're surprised people say you're inticing panic?
Pretty much. It's funny that he's attributing it to people's anxiety or whatever when most people who posted in this thread are much more calm and are nowhere as concerned as he is. Furthermore, he's trying to act as a beacon of knowledge when there was barely any in the OP or in subsequent posts aside from a % or so.
If you want to make people see your side of the story, you have to post well and back things up with reputable sources. Stating things like "We will already have a recession as a result of this, at best." as a matter of fact without even backing it up will not help your case at all OP. You could've provided data to show that imports and exports and such have dropped due to coronavirus for instance. Also, that link you posted from Event 201 does not say anything about a coverup. If anything, what was said is common and logical. The whole thing can be literally summarized as: Combat any misinformation if it arises during an outbreak because that affects everything, including livelihood of folks, especially with the widespread use of social media.
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So you want me to spend hours and hours to try to tell people something? How about no, i opened up a discussion and if they are interested then they can do some of the work too. My message is to try to get people interested.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On February 20 2020 02:38 travis wrote:
So you want me to spend hours and hours to try to tell people something? How about no, i opened up a discussion and if they are interested then they can do some of the work too. My message is to try to get people interested.
What? This is a joke, right? You are the one who opened this thread and was trying to say that there is a chance that there are global conspiracies and a recession that is coming due to this virus, not us. The onus is on you to provide evidence to try and prove your statements, but so far, you have provided little.
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I believe travis.
His viewpoints align with mine.
Have an open mind.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37071 Posts
Closing this thread for the following reasons:
1) While the subject of the Coronavirus is a very serious matter and definitely deserves a discussion thread, this one started off in a disastrous manner, has now become a train wreck, and did not deliver in the end.
2) To travis and anyone else, if you wish to open a discussion thread, the Opening Post needs to be rock solid. It cannot contain opinions and statements from unnamed sources. An opening post should provide solid facts that are backed up by sources that people can refer to.
3) The discussion taking place in this thread right now seems more like a breeding ground for conspiracy theory discussions and general fear mongering. If a new thread about this topic is opened, then let's try to focus more on facts and helping the public out, instead of making them needlessly fear for their lives.
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EPT
