2 new polls on the Blizzard Remastered forum - Page 6
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seriosity
United States214 Posts
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
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seriosity
United States214 Posts
crazy map = sparkle/third world balance doesn't matter except at the very top ^^ | ||
ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On June 28 2019 22:55 seriosity wrote: asymmetrical map = elysion crazy map = sparkle/third world balance doesn't matter except at the very top ^^ huge limitations on map types and serious playstyle limitations on each balance matters at all levels, if it matters at the top it matters for all the levels below where you should play "like the top" to get better results quite likely, unless the top players are still doing something wrong its actually pretty simple, balance matters for the game, it doesn't matter which level you play it you're still playing the same game with the same balance problems^^ bw beats all other RTS easy, the closest I know would be AoE2 but tactically it's quite weak in comparison (which in turn has large implications on limits of strategy). Still bw actually has many limitations. my opinion of course | ||
ninazerg
United States7290 Posts
On June 28 2019 04:07 Jealous wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On June 26 2019 07:23 ninazerg wrote: I feel a Castle-like reaction to your replies here, however, since we have to maintain a veneer of civility, I'd like to explain why I think you are wrong here. + Show Spoiler [Aesthetic spoiler] + What you are essentially forming here is an argumentative style called a "kafka trap", where the more someone disagrees with you, the more it affirms how correct you are. For example, if you said "Hey, we should buff scouts so more people would use scouts, and if you disagree with me, you're an elitist who clings to a hollow, stale meta" and I present a case against the buffing of scouts, you could respond with "See? You don't want to change the meta." That sort of thinking is counter-productive to making an argument in favor of something. I would possibly be able to discuss a potential balance change if you actually made one, but you have not done so. You've argued nothing in a lot of words, but did manage to get in some jabs at the imaginary "bw elitist" boogeyman that is supposedly ruining the game. You've presented us with your anecdotal story about your "8 irl friends" who were so into Brood War that they quit(?). I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with this information. I don't know what anyone is supposed to do with this information. I mean, let's say everyone on this forum said "We're all in agreement: we need to make some arbitrary changes to the game." If for some reason Activision Blizzard even looked at this forum, they would still have to consider how that would change the game for the Korean gamers that comprise 99% of the population playing the game. I'll say this again: there is no evidence that balance changes will bring people into the game. The only thing that grows a game's audience is publicity, which can come by way of advertisements, viral marketing, word-of-mouth, and so on. I've played a bunch of games where there have been lots of balance changes, and for some reason, the population still goes down. If you want balance changes and a new meta, email Blizzard. It's that simple! Post on the Blizzard forums even. If you're feeling really obsessive, start stalking the developers in real life (my lawyer has advised me to say that's I'm kidding, and tell you not to do this). You may go "Well, they're gonna want the community to be behind those changes I propose.", and if you're saying this, then you should be trying to persuade the community to see what you see. Right now, you're calling everyone who disagrees with you 'elitist', 'part of a cult', 'someone who worships the game', 'reactionaries', 'fetishists', and so on. Not really good ways to win people over, I've found. I would highly recommend you change the way you communicate your ideas to the TL community, because so far, your current method does not seem to be working very well. I'd leave you with that, but I want to mention a few miscellaneous things: - DotA was a fluke. There are thousands of UMS maps that have not developed into their own games/genres. - If the statement "Only fanatics are left." is correct, then holy shit, what are you doing - You are more than welcome to make UMS maps with any balance changes you want. In fact, I encourage it. - When we're talking about the "meta", that applies almost exclusively to 1v1 games. A casual player is not going to do well in 1v1 games regardless of whether or not the meta changes, because they are a casual player. - Casual players will NEVER stick around no matter what, because they are casual players. - A small internet forum is not responsible for voluntarily growing a large corporation's game's player-base. If you have stuff that you want to discuss about the game's balance and meta, feel free to open a thread, and write out, in specific detail, what you'd like to see happen. Given our great success as an investigative team in the past, I thought the time was right to again combine your initial interest in a case with my The Stale Meta of Dazed's TL Posts First and foremost, it makes sense to map out a behavioral pattern for the poster in question. Due to the chief complaint seeming to be "stale meta" or "stale map pool," I have taken the liberty of searching for every time Dazed has used the word to try and capture a trend for the usage of the term. The first appearance of the term as used by Dazed in reference to Brood War was in April, 2008. It should be noted that Dazed had only been a member of TL for a month and change, and was already complaining about the staleness of the competitive map pool. This provides us with three possible pieces of information: 1. If nothing else, Dazed's opinion of the map pool/meta is consistent. His opinion that the map pool is stale predates the first pro-level game played on Fighting Spirit by well over a year. As this was the first ever usage of the term by Dazed, is it safe to say that Dazed's opinion is proven to be staler than Fighting Spirit? We'll explore this more below. 2. The first professional game played on Python was on June 10th, 2007, meaning that within the scope of less than a year, Dazed had already determined that Python is "stale." This hypothetically puts the shelf life of any given map at around ten months before it goes "stale." 3. Dazed has been unhappy with the state of competitive Brood War for years before the match-fixing scandal, the hybrid league, post-KeSPA lack of new maps, etc. He was hinting at his unhappiness within two months of joining TL in 2008. This equates to over 11 years of playing and watching a game in which you are fundamentally unhappy with the community consensus on core elements and its general direction. Misattributed quotes about insanity aside, one has to question whether the feeling of staleness that Dazed has experienced throughout the years grew exponentially over time, whether each new map did anything to allay those issues (for 10 months or so), so on and so forth. One thing can be said for certain, however, is that Dazed's decision to stay despite a seemingly perpetual state of discontent means that he must be pretty comfortable with misery, which explains his lack of inhibition in sharing it with others through his posts - or, he is an addict, and Brood War is his drug of choice. Could be both. This is actually turning into a pretty tragic case. New title. The Stale Tragedy of Dazed Did someone mention obsessive and fanatical? To address the earlier quandary about whether or not the "staleness" of the game (along with the nature of his posts) according to Dazed is exponential, the above graph demonstrates that it is indeed the case. Perhaps this stands to logic that as a piece of bread stays out on the counter longer and longer, it becomes more and more stale, until it is eventually moldy and inedible. When will Dazed reach that level with Brood War, after over 11 years of nibbling on ever-staler bread? When will the TL community reach that level with Dazed's posts about staleness? When will the staleception become too much? The outlook isn't good. My brief dive into Dazed's post history has unearthed what can only be described as a descent into madness combined with a caustic grumpy war veteran getting more and more fed up with his wife, to the point where civility has begun to elude him. Take a look at the progression (or regression?) of the rhetoric Dazed uses to cushion his claims of Brood War "staleness:" + Show Spoiler [The Descent] + On April 28 2008 11:42 Dazed. wrote: This looks very very fun. I hope ICCUP picks it up for the next season, or that I come across it at least once. I am tired of Python and other standard maps like that. It kind of gets stale, no? The first mention of the topic from Dazed, in a thread about a fan-made map. Here we see the beginnings of both the "staleness" trend, and the trend of Dazed bringing his opinion into vaguely related threads. The bread is fresh out of the bag at this point, and Dazed's post goes off without a hitch. Compare this with the following post, 10 years later: On August 29 2018 11:52 Dazed. wrote: if were gonna vent: started playing bw in 99 and started playing melee seriously in late 05. Never has the game been more stale in terms of the strategies people actually employ in the amateur scene, never has the scene been so stale both in map rotation and map type [can anyone honestly say fighting spirit is a distinct map from cb? im sorry they simply arent]. I thought unoriginal cookie cutter bitches who couldnt think their way out of a paper bag were a problem in 2007; I cant remember the last time I saw someone actually engage in creative thinking, least of all an original build. The issues of 2007 are magnified a million times. Stale games with macro bots who, in fact, have huge holes in their play because they only know one build, one map, no ability to deviate, no ability to think on their feet. Barely even a strategy game at this point. If i wanted mindless macro games I would of stuck to bgh. Notice the hostility, the self-righteous indignation which now consumes Dazed. Here are some more examples: On March 15 2018 07:10 Dazed. wrote: Have you played neo requiem? Not a balanced map, yet it isnt boring to play or watch, and the game play is hardly one dimensional. You dont know what your talking about. One major point of distinction is that in the kespa days the scene hadnt already ossified to the extent where the maps they were retaining had been there for an entire decade, nor were any of the standard maps simply replaceable without any real distinction--- cb and fs have their differences, to be sure, but they and maps of that era are some of the most bland, unoriginal, and similar maps in broodwar history. Played one, you played them all. And its been almost ten years. Ten years of staleness and you still have people complaining that change is happening too quickly. Genuinely pathetic. This post predates the former, and it shows a clear indicator of how severe the condition of cynicism has become in the afflicted. In March of 2018, he admits that CB and FS have their differences. Not even half a year later, he is challenging the TL population to "honestly say" that FS and CB are different maps. Within the span of a few months, Dazed has metaphorically gone from low key conversational racism to burning crosses. On March 15 2018 02:23 Dazed. wrote: Seems interesting. Finally we can move past the seven year stale boring ass meta game of FS and CB trash. I'd take anything over that. Another comment on a map thread. On August 03 2018 01:27 Dazed. wrote: Its awful. often laggy games, definitely never a consistent mmr. waste of time. bored of bw's stale meta anyway, ten years of the same maps. So long and thanks for all the fish! Predating the "venting" post by a few weeks, it seems that Dazed has had enough of Brood War and is moving on, using a famous Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy quote - which, for those that are unaware, alludes contextually to dolphins (who are more intelligent than humans in this series) leaving the Earth. Dazed, perched upon his high throne of peerless intelligence and analysis of the Brood War meta, is bidding us farewell! Bye Dazed! On August 04 2018 06:17 Dazed. wrote: +- 600 mmr with endless rematches, all on decades old maps that were stale and uninspired the day they were released: thats ladder. Yipeee!! Nevermind, 29 hours later Dazed is back to do some more bitching and moaning. Welcome back, I guess! One has to wonder, how many losses does Dazed rack up in between these posts, or at least shortly before them? On September 07 2018 05:47 Dazed. wrote: my analysis: boring and stale. what a cock up given how great third world turned out. incompetents. In another map announcement thread, Dazed shares his peerless wisdom and insight on map making once more. If Dazed's posting habits are to be seen as caused by his perception of the game's/map pool's staleness, then that presents us with an undeniable proof: 1. The longer FS and CB are in the map pool, the exponentially more stale they are according to Dazed. 2. The more stale they are according to Dazed, the exponentially greater quantity and lower quality of posts will be made by Dazed about their staleness. 3. The more Dazed posts about their staleness, his posts grow exponentially more stale as a result. What we have here is a doubly exponential process. This gives us the following series of equations, and an alarming conclusion: diosmio.png For those of you not operating on near-Dazed levels of insight, this means that we will be rapidly approaching a singularity of staleness on TL as a result of Dazed's posts, unless FS and CB (and other "standard" "macro" maps) are expressly removed from the map pool. Considering this is entirely outside of our control, we have no option but to be idle observers of this catastrophe. On Consistency We have already addressed the fact that Dazed's opinion, since pre-FS times, has been unwavering. One thing we are missing from our current calculations, however, are all of the posts that allude to the deplorable state of affairs in the game that do not mention the word "stale." I have looked at Dazed's post history over the past 100 posts (~4 months), and have come up with an alarming statistic: If we exclude posts made in the Game of Thrones thread and the SC2 section, 53.75% of Dazed's posts allude to staleness in one way or another - 43 posts in total. The staleness grows... The number of posts he made alluding to the staleness of the game FAR outpace any non-Brood War content, and outpace the non-staleness discussion too. This includes throw-away posts like signing up for leagues, or simply saying "thank you," in response to someone as well. We are past the half-way point. The only question is whether Dazed will increase the ratio of stale to non-stale posts, divert more attention to making stale posts in favor of Game of Thrones posts, make more posts overall, or all three? As we determined above, the staleness has shown no signs of stopping, so at least one of the above are on our radar in the near future. Keep your eyes peeled. Let's take a breather for a moment and examine what happens when Dazed does make his stale posts. Do many of them go unanswered? Yes. I believe many posters have accepted that this is the natural state of things, that every topic that is even tangentially related to the state of Brood War will have a stale Dazed post in it, and that it is best to just ignore it. However, there have been times when people decided to call Dazed out on his assertions. Nina's post above is one example. At times, he has been addressed by numerous people (read on in the thread). One thing that has remained consistent about Dazed throughout these encounters where he gets btfo by players more knowledgeable than him, is that he just stops answering - he slithers away from whence he came, only to resurface a while later in a different thread, repeating the same things. He has done this when in other situations as well. I have personally asked him numerous times why he subjects himself to an environment in which he is unhappy, to no avail. In short, I think that given Dazed's consistency, Nina's queries will go unanswered. More specifically to the content of Nina's post and initial inquiry in to this case: Nina suggests that Dazed make a thread with specific changes that he would suggest that would cure the staleness of Brood War. Of course, he has never done so. In fact, he has never made any thread at all. So, to those who are waiting for Dazed to explain how to deal with the staleness of Brood War (and thus, offer us an escape from the inevitable staleness armageddon), I would say do not hold your breath. Finally, I would like to address a perplexing element of Dazed's remarkable consistency. Despite his statements claiming that the map pool hasn't significantly changed in 10 years, the options for Zerg have all been the same, and that the game is just generally stale, Dazed has not actually improved by any noticeable margin. This is evidenced by his continued participation in noob-oriented leagues for the vast majority of the past 10 years. This is by no means to shame any low level players out there - there is no shame in being a noob, even if you're a noob for 10 years. The main purpose is to raise a question. If everything is so stale, and we have determined that Dazed's staleness increases exponentially over time, shouldn't he be perfectly suited to this environment which he deplores? Is it perhaps the internal struggle of being stale but hating staleness that prevents him from unlocking his true powers and dominating the stale meta? Dare I say that this could all be borne of frustration from the staleness of his skill - losing in (seemingly) the same way every time for over a decade? Or is that the conundrum of staleness - that being more stale is equivalent to approaching a sort of baseline of staleness from which one can never escape? These are questions that unfortunately I do not have the qualifications to answer, but it is interesting to muse them nonetheless. Conclusions Dazed's spirit animal. TL;DR: The "Stale" Apocalypse is coming, and there is nothing we can do to stop it. And it's Dazed's fault. I actually had no idea he'd be going on about this for so long. I remember him being in noob leagues from a few years ago when there were those D/C leagues for iccup. I think I may have commentated on some of his games and from what I could gather, he had the right kinds of ideas about how to deal with different situations, but was hindered by poor mechanics and a general lack of direction in the late game. I know him more from what Stardom/Arya/LightningStrike has said, and if Stardom vouches for someone, I usually trust that they're pretty okay. | ||
art_of_turtle
United States1150 Posts
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fazek42
Hungary438 Posts
On June 28 2019 04:07 Jealous wrote: Given our great success as an investigative team in the past, I thought the time was right to again combine your initial interest in a case with my The Stale Meta of Dazed's TL Posts First and foremost, it makes sense to map out a behavioral pattern for the poster in question. Due to the chief complaint seeming to be "stale meta" or "stale map pool," I have taken the liberty of searching for every time Dazed has used the word to try and capture a trend for the usage of the term. The first appearance of the term as used by Dazed in reference to Brood War was in April, 2008. It should be noted that Dazed had only been a member of TL for a month and change, and was already complaining about the staleness of the competitive map pool. This provides us with three possible pieces of information: 1. If nothing else, Dazed's opinion of the map pool/meta is consistent. His opinion that the map pool is stale predates the first pro-level game played on Fighting Spirit by well over a year. As this was the first ever usage of the term by Dazed, is it safe to say that Dazed's opinion is proven to be staler than Fighting Spirit? We'll explore this more below. 2. The first professional game played on Python was on June 10th, 2007, meaning that within the scope of less than a year, Dazed had already determined that Python is "stale." This hypothetically puts the shelf life of any given map at around ten months before it goes "stale." 3. Dazed has been unhappy with the state of competitive Brood War for years before the match-fixing scandal, the hybrid league, post-KeSPA lack of new maps, etc. He was hinting at his unhappiness within two months of joining TL in 2008. This equates to over 11 years of playing and watching a game in which you are fundamentally unhappy with the community consensus on core elements and its general direction. Misattributed quotes about insanity aside, one has to question whether the feeling of staleness that Dazed has experienced throughout the years grew exponentially over time, whether each new map did anything to allay those issues (for 10 months or so), so on and so forth. One thing can be said for certain, however, is that Dazed's decision to stay despite a seemingly perpetual state of discontent means that he must be pretty comfortable with misery, which explains his lack of inhibition in sharing it with others through his posts - or, he is an addict, and Brood War is his drug of choice. Could be both. This is actually turning into a pretty tragic case. New title. The Stale Tragedy of Dazed Did someone mention obsessive and fanatical? To address the earlier quandary about whether or not the "staleness" of the game (along with the nature of his posts) according to Dazed is exponential, the above graph demonstrates that it is indeed the case. Perhaps this stands to logic that as a piece of bread stays out on the counter longer and longer, it becomes more and more stale, until it is eventually moldy and inedible. When will Dazed reach that level with Brood War, after over 11 years of nibbling on ever-staler bread? When will the TL community reach that level with Dazed's posts about staleness? When will the staleception become too much? The outlook isn't good. My brief dive into Dazed's post history has unearthed what can only be described as a descent into madness combined with a caustic grumpy war veteran getting more and more fed up with his wife, to the point where civility has begun to elude him. Take a look at the progression (or regression?) of the rhetoric Dazed uses to cushion his claims of Brood War "staleness:" + Show Spoiler [The Descent] + On April 28 2008 11:42 Dazed. wrote: This looks very very fun. I hope ICCUP picks it up for the next season, or that I come across it at least once. I am tired of Python and other standard maps like that. It kind of gets stale, no? The first mention of the topic from Dazed, in a thread about a fan-made map. Here we see the beginnings of both the "staleness" trend, and the trend of Dazed bringing his opinion into vaguely related threads. The bread is fresh out of the bag at this point, and Dazed's post goes off without a hitch. Compare this with the following post, 10 years later: On August 29 2018 11:52 Dazed. wrote: if were gonna vent: started playing bw in 99 and started playing melee seriously in late 05. Never has the game been more stale in terms of the strategies people actually employ in the amateur scene, never has the scene been so stale both in map rotation and map type [can anyone honestly say fighting spirit is a distinct map from cb? im sorry they simply arent]. I thought unoriginal cookie cutter bitches who couldnt think their way out of a paper bag were a problem in 2007; I cant remember the last time I saw someone actually engage in creative thinking, least of all an original build. The issues of 2007 are magnified a million times. Stale games with macro bots who, in fact, have huge holes in their play because they only know one build, one map, no ability to deviate, no ability to think on their feet. Barely even a strategy game at this point. If i wanted mindless macro games I would of stuck to bgh. Notice the hostility, the self-righteous indignation which now consumes Dazed. Here are some more examples: On March 15 2018 07:10 Dazed. wrote: Have you played neo requiem? Not a balanced map, yet it isnt boring to play or watch, and the game play is hardly one dimensional. You dont know what your talking about. One major point of distinction is that in the kespa days the scene hadnt already ossified to the extent where the maps they were retaining had been there for an entire decade, nor were any of the standard maps simply replaceable without any real distinction--- cb and fs have their differences, to be sure, but they and maps of that era are some of the most bland, unoriginal, and similar maps in broodwar history. Played one, you played them all. And its been almost ten years. Ten years of staleness and you still have people complaining that change is happening too quickly. Genuinely pathetic. This post predates the former, and it shows a clear indicator of how severe the condition of cynicism has become in the afflicted. In March of 2018, he admits that CB and FS have their differences. Not even half a year later, he is challenging the TL population to "honestly say" that FS and CB are different maps. Within the span of a few months, Dazed has metaphorically gone from low key conversational racism to burning crosses. On March 15 2018 02:23 Dazed. wrote: Seems interesting. Finally we can move past the seven year stale boring ass meta game of FS and CB trash. I'd take anything over that. Another comment on a map thread. On August 03 2018 01:27 Dazed. wrote: Its awful. often laggy games, definitely never a consistent mmr. waste of time. bored of bw's stale meta anyway, ten years of the same maps. So long and thanks for all the fish! Predating the "venting" post by a few weeks, it seems that Dazed has had enough of Brood War and is moving on, using a famous Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy quote - which, for those that are unaware, alludes contextually to dolphins (who are more intelligent than humans in this series) leaving the Earth. Dazed, perched upon his high throne of peerless intelligence and analysis of the Brood War meta, is bidding us farewell! Bye Dazed! On August 04 2018 06:17 Dazed. wrote: +- 600 mmr with endless rematches, all on decades old maps that were stale and uninspired the day they were released: thats ladder. Yipeee!! Nevermind, 29 hours later Dazed is back to do some more bitching and moaning. Welcome back, I guess! One has to wonder, how many losses does Dazed rack up in between these posts, or at least shortly before them? On September 07 2018 05:47 Dazed. wrote: my analysis: boring and stale. what a cock up given how great third world turned out. incompetents. In another map announcement thread, Dazed shares his peerless wisdom and insight on map making once more. If Dazed's posting habits are to be seen as caused by his perception of the game's/map pool's staleness, then that presents us with an undeniable proof: 1. The longer FS and CB are in the map pool, the exponentially more stale they are according to Dazed. 2. The more stale they are according to Dazed, the exponentially greater quantity and lower quality of posts will be made by Dazed about their staleness. 3. The more Dazed posts about their staleness, his posts grow exponentially more stale as a result. What we have here is a doubly exponential process. This gives us the following series of equations, and an alarming conclusion: diosmio.png For those of you not operating on near-Dazed levels of insight, this means that we will be rapidly approaching a singularity of staleness on TL as a result of Dazed's posts, unless FS and CB (and other "standard" "macro" maps) are expressly removed from the map pool. Considering this is entirely outside of our control, we have no option but to be idle observers of this catastrophe. On Consistency We have already addressed the fact that Dazed's opinion, since pre-FS times, has been unwavering. One thing we are missing from our current calculations, however, are all of the posts that allude to the deplorable state of affairs in the game that do not mention the word "stale." I have looked at Dazed's post history over the past 100 posts (~4 months), and have come up with an alarming statistic: If we exclude posts made in the Game of Thrones thread and the SC2 section, 53.75% of Dazed's posts allude to staleness in one way or another - 43 posts in total. The staleness grows... The number of posts he made alluding to the staleness of the game FAR outpace any non-Brood War content, and outpace the non-staleness discussion too. This includes throw-away posts like signing up for leagues, or simply saying "thank you," in response to someone as well. We are past the half-way point. The only question is whether Dazed will increase the ratio of stale to non-stale posts, divert more attention to making stale posts in favor of Game of Thrones posts, make more posts overall, or all three? As we determined above, the staleness has shown no signs of stopping, so at least one of the above are on our radar in the near future. Keep your eyes peeled. Let's take a breather for a moment and examine what happens when Dazed does make his stale posts. Do many of them go unanswered? Yes. I believe many posters have accepted that this is the natural state of things, that every topic that is even tangentially related to the state of Brood War will have a stale Dazed post in it, and that it is best to just ignore it. However, there have been times when people decided to call Dazed out on his assertions. Nina's post above is one example. At times, he has been addressed by numerous people (read on in the thread). One thing that has remained consistent about Dazed throughout these encounters where he gets btfo by players more knowledgeable than him, is that he just stops answering - he slithers away from whence he came, only to resurface a while later in a different thread, repeating the same things. He has done this when in other situations as well. I have personally asked him numerous times why he subjects himself to an environment in which he is unhappy, to no avail. In short, I think that given Dazed's consistency, Nina's queries will go unanswered. More specifically to the content of Nina's post and initial inquiry in to this case: Nina suggests that Dazed make a thread with specific changes that he would suggest that would cure the staleness of Brood War. Of course, he has never done so. In fact, he has never made any thread at all. So, to those who are waiting for Dazed to explain how to deal with the staleness of Brood War (and thus, offer us an escape from the inevitable staleness armageddon), I would say do not hold your breath. Finally, I would like to address a perplexing element of Dazed's remarkable consistency. Despite his statements claiming that the map pool hasn't significantly changed in 10 years, the options for Zerg have all been the same, and that the game is just generally stale, Dazed has not actually improved by any noticeable margin. This is evidenced by his continued participation in noob-oriented leagues for the vast majority of the past 10 years. This is by no means to shame any low level players out there - there is no shame in being a noob, even if you're a noob for 10 years. The main purpose is to raise a question. If everything is so stale, and we have determined that Dazed's staleness increases exponentially over time, shouldn't he be perfectly suited to this environment which he deplores? Is it perhaps the internal struggle of being stale but hating staleness that prevents him from unlocking his true powers and dominating the stale meta? Dare I say that this could all be borne of frustration from the staleness of his skill - losing in (seemingly) the same way every time for over a decade? Or is that the conundrum of staleness - that being more stale is equivalent to approaching a sort of baseline of staleness from which one can never escape? These are questions that unfortunately I do not have the qualifications to answer, but it is interesting to muse them nonetheless. Conclusions Dazed's spirit animal. TL;DR: The "Stale" Apocalypse is coming, and there is nothing we can do to stop it. And it's Dazed's fault. Hahahaha, this made me laugh out loud so much! Thank you very much for this post | ||
iwanabana
26 Posts
Is gameplay visually clearer and less cluttered after Remastered HD Graphics? Sometimes I can't even tell a red zergling from a blue zergling, as many HD legs there are. And vultures lack the edge, hatcheries look duller...so on so forth. | ||
BlueStar
Bulgaria1151 Posts
On July 09 2019 20:35 iwanabana wrote: The only poll i'd like to see is Is gameplay visually clearer and less cluttered after Remastered HD Graphics? Sometimes I can't even tell a red zergling from a blue zergling, as many HD legs there are. And vultures lack the edge, hatcheries look duller...so on so forth. just hit f5 and go back to the roots. I personally have no problems with HD - looks clearer and crispier on the monitors nowadays. Idk, if you are with Win XP and CRT monitor? | ||
Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On June 28 2019 22:32 ProMeTheus112 wrote: Dude. Dont speak heresy like that on this site. Jelous and some guy with a series of letters and numbers in his name will harass you, follow your post history through years, and send you pm's telling you to kill yourself. Heresy is SERIOUS on this site. Any suggestion of changing broodwar at all must be done in hushed whisper.i think ideally almost any type of map would be playable, such as open maps, maps without a natural, with a bunch of ramps to main, perhaps more different sizes, etc. Even if we're a bit crazy, assymetrical maps. And importantly, more strategies playable. But bw's balance isn't THAT good. Overall at this point I'm more interested in finding a new RTS game which doesn't yet exist. Still may play more bw. Protect thyself. On July 01 2019 13:08 art_of_turtle wrote: Anyone so obsessed with a video game as to think any change, however minor, is heretical, probably has a lot of...social problems... so it really shouldnt surprise anyone.Babo has a lot of time on his hands. | ||
Cele
Germany4012 Posts
On July 09 2019 22:54 BlueStar wrote: just hit f5 and go back to the roots. I personally have no problems with HD - looks clearer and crispier on the monitors nowadays. Idk, if you are with Win XP and CRT monitor? Except the low graphics setting is strictly worse than 1.6 graphics. You get close-ish to old graphics using the right filter setting, but i still feel it's a downgrade. My pc is to old to handle hd settings btw, tho i like em. @dazed: if you received pm's with that content, thats a serious problem. Based on the exact context of what was written by whom; i'd consider forwarding it to a mod. Im just saying this in a general sense because i have no idea about the context of what you wrote there. | ||
AntiHack
Switzerland552 Posts
On June 28 2019 04:07 Jealous wrote: Given our great success as an investigative team in the past, I thought the time was right to again combine your initial interest in a case with my The Stale Meta of Dazed's TL Posts First and foremost, it makes sense to map out a behavioral pattern for the poster in question. Due to the chief complaint seeming to be "stale meta" or "stale map pool," I have taken the liberty of searching for every time Dazed has used the word to try and capture a trend for the usage of the term. The first appearance of the term as used by Dazed in reference to Brood War was in April, 2008. It should be noted that Dazed had only been a member of TL for a month and change, and was already complaining about the staleness of the competitive map pool. This provides us with three possible pieces of information: 1. If nothing else, Dazed's opinion of the map pool/meta is consistent. His opinion that the map pool is stale predates the first pro-level game played on Fighting Spirit by well over a year. As this was the first ever usage of the term by Dazed, is it safe to say that Dazed's opinion is proven to be staler than Fighting Spirit? We'll explore this more below. 2. The first professional game played on Python was on June 10th, 2007, meaning that within the scope of less than a year, Dazed had already determined that Python is "stale." This hypothetically puts the shelf life of any given map at around ten months before it goes "stale." 3. Dazed has been unhappy with the state of competitive Brood War for years before the match-fixing scandal, the hybrid league, post-KeSPA lack of new maps, etc. He was hinting at his unhappiness within two months of joining TL in 2008. This equates to over 11 years of playing and watching a game in which you are fundamentally unhappy with the community consensus on core elements and its general direction. Misattributed quotes about insanity aside, one has to question whether the feeling of staleness that Dazed has experienced throughout the years grew exponentially over time, whether each new map did anything to allay those issues (for 10 months or so), so on and so forth. One thing can be said for certain, however, is that Dazed's decision to stay despite a seemingly perpetual state of discontent means that he must be pretty comfortable with misery, which explains his lack of inhibition in sharing it with others through his posts - or, he is an addict, and Brood War is his drug of choice. Could be both. This is actually turning into a pretty tragic case. New title. The Stale Tragedy of Dazed Did someone mention obsessive and fanatical? To address the earlier quandary about whether or not the "staleness" of the game (along with the nature of his posts) according to Dazed is exponential, the above graph demonstrates that it is indeed the case. Perhaps this stands to logic that as a piece of bread stays out on the counter longer and longer, it becomes more and more stale, until it is eventually moldy and inedible. When will Dazed reach that level with Brood War, after over 11 years of nibbling on ever-staler bread? When will the TL community reach that level with Dazed's posts about staleness? When will the staleception become too much? The outlook isn't good. My brief dive into Dazed's post history has unearthed what can only be described as a descent into madness combined with a caustic grumpy war veteran getting more and more fed up with his wife, to the point where civility has begun to elude him. Take a look at the progression (or regression?) of the rhetoric Dazed uses to cushion his claims of Brood War "staleness:" + Show Spoiler [The Descent] + On April 28 2008 11:42 Dazed. wrote: This looks very very fun. I hope ICCUP picks it up for the next season, or that I come across it at least once. I am tired of Python and other standard maps like that. It kind of gets stale, no? The first mention of the topic from Dazed, in a thread about a fan-made map. Here we see the beginnings of both the "staleness" trend, and the trend of Dazed bringing his opinion into vaguely related threads. The bread is fresh out of the bag at this point, and Dazed's post goes off without a hitch. Compare this with the following post, 10 years later: On August 29 2018 11:52 Dazed. wrote: if were gonna vent: started playing bw in 99 and started playing melee seriously in late 05. Never has the game been more stale in terms of the strategies people actually employ in the amateur scene, never has the scene been so stale both in map rotation and map type [can anyone honestly say fighting spirit is a distinct map from cb? im sorry they simply arent]. I thought unoriginal cookie cutter bitches who couldnt think their way out of a paper bag were a problem in 2007; I cant remember the last time I saw someone actually engage in creative thinking, least of all an original build. The issues of 2007 are magnified a million times. Stale games with macro bots who, in fact, have huge holes in their play because they only know one build, one map, no ability to deviate, no ability to think on their feet. Barely even a strategy game at this point. If i wanted mindless macro games I would of stuck to bgh. Notice the hostility, the self-righteous indignation which now consumes Dazed. Here are some more examples: On March 15 2018 07:10 Dazed. wrote: Have you played neo requiem? Not a balanced map, yet it isnt boring to play or watch, and the game play is hardly one dimensional. You dont know what your talking about. One major point of distinction is that in the kespa days the scene hadnt already ossified to the extent where the maps they were retaining had been there for an entire decade, nor were any of the standard maps simply replaceable without any real distinction--- cb and fs have their differences, to be sure, but they and maps of that era are some of the most bland, unoriginal, and similar maps in broodwar history. Played one, you played them all. And its been almost ten years. Ten years of staleness and you still have people complaining that change is happening too quickly. Genuinely pathetic. This post predates the former, and it shows a clear indicator of how severe the condition of cynicism has become in the afflicted. In March of 2018, he admits that CB and FS have their differences. Not even half a year later, he is challenging the TL population to "honestly say" that FS and CB are different maps. Within the span of a few months, Dazed has metaphorically gone from low key conversational racism to burning crosses. On March 15 2018 02:23 Dazed. wrote: Seems interesting. Finally we can move past the seven year stale boring ass meta game of FS and CB trash. I'd take anything over that. Another comment on a map thread. On August 03 2018 01:27 Dazed. wrote: Its awful. often laggy games, definitely never a consistent mmr. waste of time. bored of bw's stale meta anyway, ten years of the same maps. So long and thanks for all the fish! Predating the "venting" post by a few weeks, it seems that Dazed has had enough of Brood War and is moving on, using a famous Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy quote - which, for those that are unaware, alludes contextually to dolphins (who are more intelligent than humans in this series) leaving the Earth. Dazed, perched upon his high throne of peerless intelligence and analysis of the Brood War meta, is bidding us farewell! Bye Dazed! On August 04 2018 06:17 Dazed. wrote: +- 600 mmr with endless rematches, all on decades old maps that were stale and uninspired the day they were released: thats ladder. Yipeee!! Nevermind, 29 hours later Dazed is back to do some more bitching and moaning. Welcome back, I guess! One has to wonder, how many losses does Dazed rack up in between these posts, or at least shortly before them? On September 07 2018 05:47 Dazed. wrote: my analysis: boring and stale. what a cock up given how great third world turned out. incompetents. In another map announcement thread, Dazed shares his peerless wisdom and insight on map making once more. If Dazed's posting habits are to be seen as caused by his perception of the game's/map pool's staleness, then that presents us with an undeniable proof: 1. The longer FS and CB are in the map pool, the exponentially more stale they are according to Dazed. 2. The more stale they are according to Dazed, the exponentially greater quantity and lower quality of posts will be made by Dazed about their staleness. 3. The more Dazed posts about their staleness, his posts grow exponentially more stale as a result. What we have here is a doubly exponential process. This gives us the following series of equations, and an alarming conclusion: diosmio.png For those of you not operating on near-Dazed levels of insight, this means that we will be rapidly approaching a singularity of staleness on TL as a result of Dazed's posts, unless FS and CB (and other "standard" "macro" maps) are expressly removed from the map pool. Considering this is entirely outside of our control, we have no option but to be idle observers of this catastrophe. On Consistency We have already addressed the fact that Dazed's opinion, since pre-FS times, has been unwavering. One thing we are missing from our current calculations, however, are all of the posts that allude to the deplorable state of affairs in the game that do not mention the word "stale." I have looked at Dazed's post history over the past 100 posts (~4 months), and have come up with an alarming statistic: If we exclude posts made in the Game of Thrones thread and the SC2 section, 53.75% of Dazed's posts allude to staleness in one way or another - 43 posts in total. The staleness grows... The number of posts he made alluding to the staleness of the game FAR outpace any non-Brood War content, and outpace the non-staleness discussion too. This includes throw-away posts like signing up for leagues, or simply saying "thank you," in response to someone as well. We are past the half-way point. The only question is whether Dazed will increase the ratio of stale to non-stale posts, divert more attention to making stale posts in favor of Game of Thrones posts, make more posts overall, or all three? As we determined above, the staleness has shown no signs of stopping, so at least one of the above are on our radar in the near future. Keep your eyes peeled. Let's take a breather for a moment and examine what happens when Dazed does make his stale posts. Do many of them go unanswered? Yes. I believe many posters have accepted that this is the natural state of things, that every topic that is even tangentially related to the state of Brood War will have a stale Dazed post in it, and that it is best to just ignore it. However, there have been times when people decided to call Dazed out on his assertions. Nina's post above is one example. At times, he has been addressed by numerous people (read on in the thread). One thing that has remained consistent about Dazed throughout these encounters where he gets btfo by players more knowledgeable than him, is that he just stops answering - he slithers away from whence he came, only to resurface a while later in a different thread, repeating the same things. He has done this when in other situations as well. I have personally asked him numerous times why he subjects himself to an environment in which he is unhappy, to no avail. In short, I think that given Dazed's consistency, Nina's queries will go unanswered. More specifically to the content of Nina's post and initial inquiry in to this case: Nina suggests that Dazed make a thread with specific changes that he would suggest that would cure the staleness of Brood War. Of course, he has never done so. In fact, he has never made any thread at all. So, to those who are waiting for Dazed to explain how to deal with the staleness of Brood War (and thus, offer us an escape from the inevitable staleness armageddon), I would say do not hold your breath. Finally, I would like to address a perplexing element of Dazed's remarkable consistency. Despite his statements claiming that the map pool hasn't significantly changed in 10 years, the options for Zerg have all been the same, and that the game is just generally stale, Dazed has not actually improved by any noticeable margin. This is evidenced by his continued participation in noob-oriented leagues for the vast majority of the past 10 years. This is by no means to shame any low level players out there - there is no shame in being a noob, even if you're a noob for 10 years. The main purpose is to raise a question. If everything is so stale, and we have determined that Dazed's staleness increases exponentially over time, shouldn't he be perfectly suited to this environment which he deplores? Is it perhaps the internal struggle of being stale but hating staleness that prevents him from unlocking his true powers and dominating the stale meta? Dare I say that this could all be borne of frustration from the staleness of his skill - losing in (seemingly) the same way every time for over a decade? Or is that the conundrum of staleness - that being more stale is equivalent to approaching a sort of baseline of staleness from which one can never escape? These are questions that unfortunately I do not have the qualifications to answer, but it is interesting to muse them nonetheless. Conclusions Dazed's spirit animal. TL;DR: The "Stale" Apocalypse is coming, and there is nothing we can do to stop it. And it's Dazed's fault. I got banned for fighting that mentally shaken troll once | ||
Jealous
9968 Posts
On July 09 2019 23:26 Dazed. wrote: Dude. Dont speak heresy like that on this site. Jelous and some guy with a series of letters and numbers in his name will harass you, follow your post history through years, and send you pm's telling you to kill yourself. Heresy is SERIOUS on this site. Any suggestion of changing broodwar at all must be done in hushed whisper. Protect thyself. Anyone so obsessed with a video game as to think any change, however minor, is heretical, probably has a lot of...social problems... so it really shouldnt surprise anyone. Sir, I have never harassed you or sent you a PM telling you to kill yourself or anything even remotely similar to this. Please keep your lies to yourself. As for "following your post history through years," I believe this, like many of the things you say is just poorly written, because it implies that I specifically followed your posts for years when in reality I just took an hour to look back throughout the years of posts you've made. I wasn't aware that you had been whining about the same thing for over a decade when I started this project. So immediately after flaunting your persecution complex, you accuse me of having "social problems" because I think that a game shouldn't arbitrarily change? Careful Dazed, you're skirting that line again! I'm sorry that I conclusively proved that your opinion is more stale than Fighting Spirit, I know that must have stung. By the way, what were those changes that you thought would save us from the stalepocalypse again? Care to share your proposed patch notes? | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48898 Posts
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