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Edit:
Good news. 619 came through and paid the prize money, so the issue is resolved.
Maybe it was just really bad timing on iFU's part to go public about it at this time and cause all this commotion for basically nothing (though given the same circumstances I would do the same).
But the speculations can stop now since 619 kept his word and delivered.
+ Show Spoiler [OP] +Some of you might remember, that Clan SK hosted this team league with a guaranteed overall prize pool of 500$ with 619 as the organizer which started in November last year and finished with the finals on March 11th. iFU won the finals vs SK. So far so good, but the prize money was not paid out up to this point. The facts are as follows. A couple of days after the finals concluded Eonzerg asked when the prize money is going to be paid, 619 reponded that it will be in about 2 weeks. eonzerg - 03/14/2018
yo
WHen are we getting prizes ?
will the semis and finals be cast ?
619 - 03/14/2018
I think they will, just bad time for the casters rn with personal stuff to handle that’s priority. I’ve spoken to them already. And within the next two weeks you will receive payment. Since nothing happened for 3 weeks, Eonzerg asked 619 again about the prize money, having the following conversation: eonzerg - 04/03/2018
hi
any news about prizes ?
619 - 04/03/2018
im actually talking with matcherino right now
waiting for them to fix some things on the page
theres missing 230
it looks like its going to be $732
$7320750
$732-750
is the total
eonzerg - 04/03/2018
what is the prize for first place ?
619 - 04/03/2018
i havent done the math on it yet, was waiting till the number was finalized
but if you take a look it was originally posted for $500, and then possibility of $1652 or something with the products we had availble for purchase.
so 2 items got purcahsed + $180
im going to use that same % once i get the total
eonzerg - 04/03/2018
okay
619 - 04/03/2018
sorry for delay
also going to be paying portions that where supposed to be given from 2 other people that didnt pay. so fuck me lmao i didnt expect to have to pay more but I made promise I wont back out for sure
eonzerg - 04/03/2018
that sux
proly cuz rm hype is dead tt
619 - 04/03/2018
its my fault as well, ill take blame
that fucking kid in the begining of the season really wore me down and honestly i wanted to do this shit to have fun not be stressed out every week with people complaining.
its rough to host this shit and run a team as well, its like double duty. we are a very big active clan so my time is split between both. Since then nothing. When Eonzerg tried to contact him again on Monday April 23rd, he was blocked by 619. So I wrote him a message on Discord on Tuesday regarding the SKTL prize money while he was online listening to Spotify, but I did not receive any answer. The Discord server for SKTL was also deleted in the meantime. Since we were also never asked for any information regarding where the prize should be transferred to, I think it is safe to say at this point that we got conned. Apparently 619 didn't even had the money in the first place even though it was "guaranteed". While this whole thing is very disappointing, judging by the general organization of this league and also the manners by the organizer, it is sadly not too surprising. So if 619 plans to host another tournament with prize money, be aware that you might get scammed.
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Maybe he waits to win STPL to pay out SKTL prizes.
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As I've mentioned in the original thread of the guy running Clan SK's league has a bad reputation of not delivering what he promises, yet people still continue to play his tournaments.
This is the 3rd time the community has fell for his bull shit. You're taking a gamble by spending your time to play in his league, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
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Yeah, really pathetic situation. Looks like SK is done also on the matter of managing their team, especial team A, based on they lack of proper activity in current team league, like STPL. They roster is based only on dewalt and last, and then bunch of players giving v.o for never showing up, which cannot be named a team (or maybe can be named 2v2 team :D). Sucks for iFU, although at least its not that much money giving it would need to be split amongst the players.
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damn that sucks hard for the players who won. if the allegations are true, please ban him like we banned savior.
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Yeah can't say I'm really surprised. Some guys over at the FBW discord warned the SK organizers about 619 and how he's scammed before, it was inevitable it was going to happen again. Shame.
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NaS was not paid 3rd place prize money either
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On April 28 2018 23:01 YPang wrote:
As I've mentioned in the original thread of the guy running Clan SK's league has a bad reputation of not delivering what he promises, yet people still continue to play his tournaments.
This is the 3rd time the community has fell for his bull shit. You're taking a gamble by spending your time to play in his league, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
So I guess Anderson Barrett aka Smi.Athene made for this tournament the new accounts [SK]619 and [SK]fire, but it was him all along.
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You shouldn't make promises that you can't keep.
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We should start checking the bank accounts of people who are organizers. If you already have 10k in your bank account or more, you're likely not going to scam the community because the prize pool means nothing for you. This guy is probably broke as they come and can't pay it out.
A world where we can trust each other and use an honor code doesn't apply to many, unfortunately.
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I hate to point this out but it was super obvious this was gonna happen. SK has:
- Had a known scammer organize SKTL orginally
- Consistently tried to rig their own league to win it by playing around with the rules to their advantage:
- Intentionally tried to stay out of the public eye
- Even after being told multiple times that they can add their events to TL, etc - they refused to advertise their tournaments or leagues and had astronomically low numbers even for a foreign event. Especially considering the "money" they were putting towards the scene. Everything was centralized on their discord server.
And 619 was such a raging moron that he needed someone to do "PR" for him because he couldn't go a week without making it obvious how he was an asshole and a person with obvious problems trying to play fair.
Edit: Also to point out, I believe the weekly $50 tours clan [SK] hosted weren't even paid by [SK], but rather a small niche group called "DPAL" which stands for Dangerous to Play Alone. They footed the bill and paid out the prizes as a sponsor and are great people, but I'm not even sure if SK has a history of ever paying out, it was people doing it for them.
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On April 29 2018 01:22 SCC-Faust wrote:I hate to point this out but it was super obvious this was gonna happen. SK has: - Had a known scammer organize SKTL orginally
- Consistently tried to rig their own league to win it by playing around with the rules to their advantage:
- Intentionally tried to stay out of the public eye
- Even after being told multiple times that they can add their events to TL, etc - they refused to advertise their tournaments or leagues and had astronomically low numbers even for a foreign event. Especially considering the "money" they were putting towards the scene. Everything was centralized on their discord server.
And 619 was such a raging moron that he needed someone to do "PR" for him because he couldn't go a week without making it obvious how he was an asshole and a person with obvious problems trying to play fair. Edit: Also to point out, I believe the weekly $50 tours clan [SK] hosted weren't even paid by [SK], but rather a small niche group called "DPAL" which stands for Dangerous to Play Alone. They footed the bill and paid out the prizes as a sponsor and are great people, but I'm not even sure if SK has a history of ever paying out, it was people doing it for them.
Jordeady agrees.
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Faust pretty much explained it as well as it could be explained. I hope no one is actually shocked at this. A number of people, myself included, repeatedly stated that based on SK and specifically 619's behavior that there would be no prize money ever paid out, and here we now are. Let's see what happens.
Just compare the difference between how this SKTL was run and how Qikz STPL tournament is being run. Qikz is meticulously organized, completely transparent in structure and prize money. When you listen to Qikz and look at the STPL you have absolutely no feeling that anything will ever go wrong. The winning team will likely report back and say how happy they are with how smoothly everything was run because Qikz is a master at that sort of thing. Coincidentally, it's looking like the team that stands a great chance to benefit from Qikz work and effort is... SK.
619, own it up please. Do what you said you were going to do. Be honest and come through for once.
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I don't know anything at all about any of the history of prior scams pointed out this thread. I will say that any time an organizer acts like 619 acts, it's a pretty huge red flag. Douchebags rarely pay.
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this doesn't surprise me at all... haha
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This isn't surprising to me at all, this is why I didn't even bother getting [WHITE] involved with this league lol, what do you expect from this 619 guy? Are you surprised really guys?
We need a players union to prevent things like this, and or a middle man / organization to hold the money to ensure this doesn't happen, other games / sports have done things like this.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On April 29 2018 02:36 GGzerG wrote:
This isn't surprising to me at all, this is why I didn't even bother getting [WHITE] involved with this league lol, what do you expect from this 619 guy? Are you surprised really guys?
We need a players union to prevent things like this, and or a middle man / organization to hold the money to ensure this doesn't happen, other games / sports have done things like this.
That's what Matcherino is. I would speak to them about it.
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Here's our boy
Fraud not only in BW, but in other parts of life as well.
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I think this is going a little overboard lol, we don't really need to bring his personal life into StarCraft, although I guess it does have a correlation and is relative....
Hopefully he pays these people back.
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On April 29 2018 03:37 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2018 02:36 GGzerG wrote:
This isn't surprising to me at all, this is why I didn't even bother getting [WHITE] involved with this league lol, what do you expect from this 619 guy? Are you surprised really guys?
We need a players union to prevent things like this, and or a middle man / organization to hold the money to ensure this doesn't happen, other games / sports have done things like this. That's what Matcherino is. I would speak to them about it.
Well yea, but it seems a certain amount of the prize pool was allotted on 619's end, and if Matcherino isn't more transparent in the scene, then I would assume there would need to be a different type of players union created in the foreign BW scene, if there even is enough money to go around where it would be needed....
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@ GGzerg, hey it's public, plus he's not "guilty" until found guilty in trial per image disclaimer. 
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For real? Holy shit, the guy has some history.
Hope this is all resolved for everyone...
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Makes me glad we choked and didn't win anything, don't have to deal with being a bill collector for months lol
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Germany25657 Posts
I removed the picture because innocent until proven guilty still applies and I doubt people will even read the fine print.
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Could have told you this would happen from the beginning. I left SK cause 619 was a piece of shit who asked me to cheat in clanwars (use same players twice on smurf stuff like that) and basically treat other teams poorly. When i wouldn't do it he got enraged ... lol, so i left. He gives 0 shits about the broodwar scene.
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On April 29 2018 07:21 Kingdom[NaS] wrote:
Could have told you this would happen from the beginning. I left SK cause 619 was a piece of shit who asked me to cheat in clanwars (use same players twice on smurf stuff like that) and basically treat other teams poorly. When i wouldn't do it he got enraged ... lol, so i left. He gives 0 shits about the broodwar scene.
I don't doubt this at all. 619 and Magician have been found cheating and smurfing in valar's tournament.
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Being impartial and treating all teams, especially you own team, the same is a basic ground rule as league admin. Really rubs me the wrong way when admins hand out favors to their team.
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I tried to tell people from the beginning that this would happen with SK lol, Kingdom I am guessing you are sLiMpoWeR or?
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Ya,i saw this coming too, they started to change a lot of rules to SK benefit, and we just leave the league, im glad that we didnt spend time in that league......
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On April 29 2018 08:09 GGzerG wrote:
I tried to tell people from the beginning that this would happen with SK lol, Kingdom I am guessing you are sLiMpoWeR or?
correct
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good, iRk- need more members, letz go~
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Need to ban [SK] effectively from all tours and honestly, any players associated on that tag, should also be punished. Because based on what Kingdom is saying, the players are in some way, condoning these actions through their leader.
In my opinion, [SK] should totally disband and all their players, I think Dewalt is the only good/active one left ... just leave and find any team you want 
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Yes, time for SK to disband and their players to join new teams.It will be good for the health of the scene.
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On April 29 2018 01:17 ProtossGG wrote:
We should start checking the bank accounts of people who are organizers. If you already have 10k in your bank account or more, you're likely not going to scam the community because the prize pool means nothing for you. This guy is probably broke as they come and can't pay it out.
A world where we can trust each other and use an honor code doesn't apply to many, unfortunately.
619 smurfed into some newbie tournament 8 months ago presumably to win the $50 winners prize (maybe it was even only $30, cant remember) and people think he was gonna pay out $750? Lol! This guy is broke as a joke.
People who are doing alright financially don't smurf newb tournies for $50 prize or try to scam ex clanmates out of chump change.Heck i earn OK money and theres no way i'd put up $500 of my own money for a BW tournament if i organised it, thats still big money for me.
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On April 29 2018 11:38 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2018 01:17 ProtossGG wrote:
We should start checking the bank accounts of people who are organizers. If you already have 10k in your bank account or more, you're likely not going to scam the community because the prize pool means nothing for you. This guy is probably broke as they come and can't pay it out.
A world where we can trust each other and use an honor code doesn't apply to many, unfortunately. 619 smurfed into some newbie tournament 8 months ago presumably to win the $50 winners prize (maybe it was even only $30, cant remember) and people think he was gonna pay out $750? Lol! This guy is broke as a joke. People who are doing alright financially don't smurf newb tournies for $50 prize or try to scam ex clanmates out of chump change.Heck i earn OK money and theres no way i'd put up $500 of my own money for a BW tournament if i organised it, thats still big money for me.
Worse thing is - you know this guy is probably reading these forums right now too. And he will just come back under some new aka or smurf a few months from now. But it'll be really easy to spot him when he does come back under a new alias.
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Not a big shocker. A negative for the community but hopefully it can work out for a positive thing. [SK] shouldnt be allowed in tournaments, leaving room for more realistic teams. I wouldnt jump to conclusions about the payout but at this point it dosnt seem good. [eMg] welcomes any players who play under [sk] to the team. Skill dosnt matter just gm and a want to learn. Situations like this are horrible but lets try to get players focused on joining teams that keep the game active and fair. I hope there was some crazy mix up and the money is divided like it should.
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On April 29 2018 10:13 ProtossGG wrote:Need to ban [SK] effectively from all tours and honestly, any players associated on that tag, should also be punished. Because based on what Kingdom is saying, the players are in some way, condoning these actions through their leader. In my opinion, [SK] should totally disband and all their players, I think Dewalt is the only good/active one left ... just leave and find any team you want
Yes of course me bonyth terror dewalt condoning these action. LOL
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from what i saw how this person behaves, its no surprise at all that he would pull such a bitch move. i feel sry for ifu.
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I think we as a community can work something out. Maybe hosting a tournament for teams for fun and having all the prize money going towards the real winners of the tournament that was held. Ill see what I can do. Maybe we can have some sponsored matches or a league where the funds go towards the winners of the tournament. Im just throwing ideas out here but if we can turn this negative garbage back into a positive into the community in any way that would be our best interest. It might take some time and it might not be the bulk of what the players lost fund wise but if anyone is interested in helping than lets get something going!!!!
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And by winners of the tournament i ment the original winners of the "sk" tournament that was held. Maybe get a few cool casters, a group of teams /players together and maybe a gofundme community towards the players who didnt receive the money that they should have. If anyone has any ideas about it or want to participate please message me. Lets turn this shit show into something that the TL community can remember!!
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On April 29 2018 14:51 Wadong wrote:
And by winners of the tournament i ment the original winners of the "sk" tournament that was held. Maybe get a few cool casters, a group of teams /players together and maybe a gofundme community towards the players who didnt receive the money that they should have. If anyone has any ideas about it or want to participate please message me. Lets turn this shit show into something that the TL community can remember!!
I think this is a great idea.
I do also want to give some time after such an announcement for 619 to have a chance to step up and potentially clear things up and pay out the money before we collectively lynch him (not saying that this doesn't look good for him already, but now that it's been made public perhaps he will have a greater impetus to make moves). But if things do go south for good, we need to figure out exactly how much was owed to whom and step up as a community to correct the wrong, IMO.
There was recently an incident in SC2 where there was some bullshit between BaseTradeTV and some players that was getting really ugly. In the end, a member of the community stepped up and paid the bill. I think that is a sterling example for how a community should operate in the face of adversity.
Here is the post/thread in question if anyone is interested:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/532710-basetradetv-and-noregret-disagreement-escalates?page=11#216
I also want to say that as a former B-team player for SK, there were of course some things I took issue with over the course of my membership on the team, but 99% of my interactions with other members of the clan have been positive. Don't throw all of SK under the bus just because of the misdeeds of one person. As someone mentioned on the previous page, the majority of the members never cosigned on this kind of situation. There are some truly great people on the SK team, and if worst comes to worst, a simple change in management could keep a very populous and overall positive clan together and on the right track.
But for now, I'm waiting.
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Just an fyi, through my time with SK I made contact with some of the matcherino folks 619 was in contact with. I'm working on getting in contact with them to see if they can hand over the pool to me so we can get it distributed correctly.
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On April 29 2018 15:46 docholiday_tv wrote:
Just an fyi, through my time with SK I made contact with some of the matcherino folks 619 was in contact with. I'm working on getting in contact with them to see if they can hand over the pool to me so we can get it distributed correctly.
That would be awesome, if it can be prevented that at least part of the money goes to 619. For me it is more about the principle and not the money itself. I think we just need to be more careful with unknown tournament organizers and use a trusted member who keeps the prize money in those cases to be safe.
In general this was a rare circumstance for the foreign BW community which consists of mostly mannered people. There were probably at least 100 tournaments hosted which paid out without problems since the last big fiasco that was the Euro-LAN in 2012.
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yea, its BS. i kinda started to see things get shady so i dropped out of the teams caster lineup, which really sucked cuz i really enjoyed casting all of your guyses games despite not being an amazing caster. i tried to actually take over the sktl, but when 619 dropped off the map, and then didnt wanna hand over the reigns, things stopped feeling right. I am sorry though, for my participation in it, because this is actually insane.
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I think it's unfair to claim that the team should be banned, and the team members be dispersed to other teams. Especially since Last and Blacksnow are working hard with organizing and making ends meet. Teams should be allowed to have a rough-patch with out us other teams hovering like vultures.
I think we should stick to the subject; money is missing.
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Seemed we kind of dodged a bullet when 619 asked for a fusion of BWCL and SK-something-league. 619 really seemed strange, nice at first, angry when you wouldn't want to dicuss his ideas of rule bending to favour his team.
However, and this has to be said, the guys that replaced him to organise the line ups and everything else (Blacksnow?) were really nice, followed the rules and did well overall. We never really had problems with their players either, not during BWCL or any other tournament. Going after them would be way over the top. I really don't see how the team should be punished for the actions of their former leader.
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i think it's unfair to claim that the team should be banned, and the team members be dispersed to other teams. Especially since Last and Blacksnow are working hard with organizing and making ends meet. Teams should be allowed to have a rough-patch with out us other teams hovering like vultures.
I think we should stick to the subject; money is missing
I agree with sticking to the main issue of money being missing. Though I dont see the point of [sk] being around if the main creator is a scam artist. Not saying they should nessisarily dispearse but maybe start a new team. A fresh start without the negative side effects of having an [sk] tag on would help any further distrust of the team itself. I understand it was the actions of one player and maybe [sk] can be reworked and continue to be one of the top teams in rm.
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Was it just one person responsible? Because i see from the liquipedia [sk]Magician donated $65 to the prize pool.Is he still in SK? If yes it's very doubtful the money was ever donated (debited from his account) no?
Anyway i was in there yesterday and 619 is still the head moderator of the sk discord and i don't see him giving that up based on his previous actions.People need to just leave that clan and discord server.
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On April 29 2018 12:57 QuaNTeL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2018 10:13 ProtossGG wrote:Need to ban [SK] effectively from all tours and honestly, any players associated on that tag, should also be punished. Because based on what Kingdom is saying, the players are in some way, condoning these actions through their leader. In my opinion, [SK] should totally disband and all their players, I think Dewalt is the only good/active one left ... just leave and find any team you want Yes of course me bonyth terror dewalt condoning these action. LOL
im not really sure SK players are condoning anything, in fact Bonyth was a really good defender of 619(i suspect is cuz he was paid to join SK from red)i remember asking for the maps of the semifinals 2- 3 times without getting an answer and 619 decided to insult me for free even calling me fat and that he will buy a ticket to my third world country to beat me.cool story discord warrior,i even pmed bonyth how he could join a team like this and he totally ignored me,in fact not a single SK player said shit.and so far it seems dewalt is planing to continue on that team,and it is a bit strange to me cuz i asked dewalt few times if he was paid for sk but he said not and that will ask 619 about it but he never did.Terror already left SK,joined Nas cuz he was not happy with the outcome.
so far the only person that acted the right way is terror,why will u stay in a team with that shady reputation?and that new guy leading SK who knows maybe is the same person as 619 so be careful with qikz starleague.
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On April 29 2018 20:55 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2018 12:57 QuaNTeL wrote:On April 29 2018 10:13 ProtossGG wrote:Need to ban [SK] effectively from all tours and honestly, any players associated on that tag, should also be punished. Because based on what Kingdom is saying, the players are in some way, condoning these actions through their leader. In my opinion, [SK] should totally disband and all their players, I think Dewalt is the only good/active one left ... just leave and find any team you want Yes of course me bonyth terror dewalt condoning these action. LOL 619 decided to insult me for free even calling me fat and that he will buy a ticket to my third world country to beat me.
Wait.....Belgium a third world country? Dfaq? LOL!
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a bit of common sense goes a long way, don't get involved in things with people who have no history within the scene.. especially not in a super long tournament like this.
shitty outcome but at the very least this is a good learning experience for all the parties involved, sadly i've had way worse experiences in SC2 
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I had a feeling and removed my team at the very last moment before the start of the league.
Now I'm happy with my decision.
.. just that TT
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On April 29 2018 20:55 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2018 12:57 QuaNTeL wrote:On April 29 2018 10:13 ProtossGG wrote:Need to ban [SK] effectively from all tours and honestly, any players associated on that tag, should also be punished. Because based on what Kingdom is saying, the players are in some way, condoning these actions through their leader. In my opinion, [SK] should totally disband and all their players, I think Dewalt is the only good/active one left ... just leave and find any team you want Yes of course me bonyth terror dewalt condoning these action. LOL im not really sure SK players are condoning anything, in fact Bonyth was a really good defender of 619(i suspect is cuz he was paid to join SK from red)i remember asking for the maps of the semifinals 2- 3 times without getting an answer and 619 decided to insult me for free even calling me fat and that he will buy a ticket to my third world country to beat me.cool story discord warrior,i even pmed bonyth how he could join a team like this and he totally ignored me,in fact not a single SK player said shit.and so far it seems dewalt is planing to continue on that team,and it is a bit strange to me cuz i asked dewalt few times if he was paid for sk but he said not and that will ask 619 about it but he never did.Terror already left SK,joined Nas cuz he was not happy with the outcome. so far the only person that acted the right way is terror,why will u stay in a team with that shady reputation?and that new guy leading SK who knows maybe is the same person as 619 so be careful with qikz starleague.
Yes, this was my point eonzerg.
The players obviously knew something was going on, but they have incentive if they're getting paid. Bonyth is actually a stand up guy, I know him very well and we're great "bw friends" ... but it is what it is. Do I blame the folks like Bonyth and Dewalt for letting it happen? Kinda, but not really because they're getting paid... if I recall correctly, Bonyth was getting paid something like 150$ a month (correct me if I am wrong). Would you say anything if you were getting free money like that?
Anyways, I agree with the above about let's pool together and see if we can fix the wrongs.
Who are the final payouts to and how much? IFU/SK/NAS? -- In my opinion, only IFU and NAS should get paid now and split the pool that way. ... that's the "punishment" for the SK guys who stayed around (and I'm not saying this because I'm in NaS, I actually told my team they can have my entire share, whatever it is)
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I can only speak for while I was the coach. But bonyth, dewalt, terror, had no idea what was going on. He was very secretive with his bullshit. Often calling me on my cellphone to hide his shit from the people on the team. Again as far as I know, terror, bonyth, dewalt were complete ignorant of what was going on. Yes I saw bonyth defend 619 after some of the shit he did but you have to understand that 619 is two faced as fuck, he acts like an incredible social and helpful guys one minute then he tries to cheat to win the next. He thought sktl would jump to asl level status and he would start making tons of money. When that did not occur... He must have jumped ship. I do not in any way bring any of this blame down on terror, dewalt bonyth or 98% of sk. It's just 619.
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Hi everyone...hard to dodge this post and act like i havent heard anything, but im reading comments and id like to thx everyone who thinks members as nothing to do with that, we did tried our best to participate in a manner way and have fun with you guys! we will be considering whats going on with the team since we will probly be losing a few to many players....we'll try to finish playing in the STPL league..mostly for B team since its the less affected division! Sorry for all that and GL every members and ex members!!
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This sucks, but.. told yas so. Given first hand experience of actually meeting the guy when we did a Clan SK meetup last year, he couldnt even pay for his meal. I guess paying 3 separate alimony checks to 3 women really hurts your bank.
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On April 29 2018 20:37 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Was it just one person responsible? Because i see from the liquipedia [sk]Magician donated $65 to the prize pool.Is he still in SK? If yes it's very doubtful the money was ever donated (debited from his account) no?
Magician is definitely complicit in 619's shitty actions and should be removed from anything 619 is.
He has cheated, smurfed, and I think he lied about his skill level on stream to solicit paid lessons from newer players.
He always claimed to be some high MMR and then would only stream on smurf accounts that are sub-2000. We checked his starlog profile when that website came out for his main account and found out he was boosted by a Protoss player to hit the MMR he claimed he was at. (Magician is a Zerg player for anyone who didn't know).
It is a dumb situation, and I am friends with a lot of [SK] members who in my opinion would never do anything unethical, but at the same time I'm just confused at people who stuck with the clan all this time as everyone else was like "yeah, that is a dumpster fire waiting to happen." You either have to been heavily taken advantage of or have turned a blind eye to this all if you think [SK] wasn't a scummy clan considering there was drama following every topic for SKTL, etc. Like none of this is new or revealing information. The fact that 619 and Magician CHEATED in a low level tourney for a few bucks is about as pathetic as you can get in SC scene.
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@eonzerg Of course the top players that are in SK are only defending 619 and SK because they are and have been being paid a monthly stipend by 619 to play for him, which is another reason why the players shouldn't expect any money from 619, and should really be looking towards Matcherino to collect any possible funds and like a previous poster said, hosting other events to compensate for 619's lack of dividends.
'top' players in SK being paid is the only reason people even stayed, now players should and will most likely disperse to other teams which will be good for the scene over all, because there were too many players in SK to begin with, and now the bubble bursts.
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I'd like to leave a comment as one of SK's less active members, who is on the B team for STPL but hasn't been in any other major tournaments. To start, I had no idea that any of this was going on. It was absolutely not obvious to me that anything shady was going on in the clan, so if this is all true then 619 does a good job of hiding it from us. I'm very disappointed to hear this and will likely be leaving the clan, tho I'd like to comment that it seems unfair to judge all the members of the team for this. The overwhelming majority of players on the team had no idea any of this was happening. I totally understand if you're pissed at 619, but I don't think its reasonable to assume we're all scum for being in the clan, as the majority of my teammates are really standup guys.
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On April 29 2018 20:55 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2018 12:57 QuaNTeL wrote:On April 29 2018 10:13 ProtossGG wrote:Need to ban [SK] effectively from all tours and honestly, any players associated on that tag, should also be punished. Because based on what Kingdom is saying, the players are in some way, condoning these actions through their leader. In my opinion, [SK] should totally disband and all their players, I think Dewalt is the only good/active one left ... just leave and find any team you want Yes of course me bonyth terror dewalt condoning these action. LOL im not really sure SK players are condoning anything, in fact Bonyth was a really good defender of 619(i suspect is cuz he was paid to join SK from red)i remember asking for the maps of the semifinals 2- 3 times without getting an answer and 619 decided to insult me for free even calling me fat and that he will buy a ticket to my third world country to beat me.cool story discord warrior,i even pmed bonyth how he could join a team like this and he totally ignored me,in fact not a single SK player said shit.and so far it seems dewalt is planing to continue on that team,and it is a bit strange to me cuz i asked dewalt few times if he was paid for sk but he said not and that will ask 619 about it but he never did.Terror already left SK,joined Nas cuz he was not happy with the outcome. so far the only person that acted the right way is terror,why will u stay in a team with that shady reputation?and that new guy leading SK who knows maybe is the same person as 619 so be careful with qikz starleague.
well sorry, i didnt know anything about bonyth getting paid before. but i can tell you dewalt wasn't getting paid any money. so you should respect him for his loyality to stay in the team, untill today the leader blacksnow told us that we can leave and join another team because of the issue going on.
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Wow... just wow.. Didnt know anything about this. Cinda hard to know about unless ur Active on forums I guess. Will be leaving the team..
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Bisutopia19234 Posts
In the future if you don't trust a tournament organizer please pm me. As a community member with a proven record I will make sure the tournament funds are there and if it seems sketchy I will gladly hold the money for the event organizer and do the payouts. In this scenario, if you don't get your money I will back it myself because you had my word.
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On April 30 2018 03:31 BisuDagger wrote:
In the future if you don't trust a tournament organizer please pm me. As a community member with a proven record I will make sure the tournament funds are there and if it seems sketchy I will gladly hold the money for the event organizer and do the payouts. In this scenario, if you don't get your money I will back it myself because you had my word.
gecko gonna host super-hockey-tour, big prize pool, bisudagger does the holding-onto-the-money, donate now to: germanmafia@paypal.com?
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Bisutopia19234 Posts
On April 30 2018 04:22 GeckoXp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2018 03:31 BisuDagger wrote:
In the future if you don't trust a tournament organizer please pm me. As a community member with a proven record I will make sure the tournament funds are there and if it seems sketchy I will gladly hold the money for the event organizer and do the payouts. In this scenario, if you don't get your money I will back it myself because you had my word. gecko gonna host super-hockey-tour, big prize pool, bisudagger does the holding-onto-the-money, donate now to: germanmafia@paypal.com?
Not at all sketchy.
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Has anyone been able to reach him at all?
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On April 29 2018 03:37 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2018 02:36 GGzerG wrote:
This isn't surprising to me at all, this is why I didn't even bother getting [WHITE] involved with this league lol, what do you expect from this 619 guy? Are you surprised really guys?
We need a players union to prevent things like this, and or a middle man / organization to hold the money to ensure this doesn't happen, other games / sports have done things like this. That's what Matcherino is. I would speak to them about it.
Mmmm let me clarify that. Matcherino is a tournament funding website for donations/etc. If the money isn't on the $ amount at the top of the tournament page, it's not fair to put any blame on matcherino.
tldr, if you join a tournament and you don't see the big ${prizepool} then have less expectation to be paid. As such, every Have At You, I try to remember to put the $200 up there before the tour begins so people know I won't back out.
I don't think this is anything we need to involve matcherino with... if they handled donations/etc outside of matcherino, that's shady af. It's simpler if you have any matcherino to put it all in there because the prizepool payout is easy as hell.
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United States10154 Posts
Lol. People just figuring out that SK and 619 are shady af and complete assholes. The dude tried to get into a D- newbie league tournament when he was rocking 200+ apm and perfect build orders, then feigns ignorance when I called him out on it. lol.
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UPDATE: Spoke with the matcherino representative that was working with SK on funding the tournament. he's looking into it, and is going to get back to me.
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id just like to say in regards to magicians donation of $65 to the league. i really do not know 619 or magician very well at all so my input on the whole matter is pretty much worthless, the only interactions ive had with magician was when he called all of eMg a piece of shit clan and that we r cowards (behind our backs in SKs discord) but the ironic thing about this was he died to me on destination a few days prior . anyways he seems like the kind of guy to mess around with controversy
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I feel like something like this may have happened before at some point.
Not sure. Got this weird deja vu feeling.
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On May 01 2018 07:52 ninazerg wrote:
I feel like something like this may have happened before at some point.
Not sure. Got this weird deja vu feeling.
Did it involve Wayne Gretzky Rookie cards?
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I remember when at the launch of remastered, 619 came into the scene with big ambitions hoping that he could make some money off of the revitalizing community. Now a year later, he gives up and then settles for scamming a few people for one months rent . If this is all true then the joke is on him.
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Guys I have created a new thread about this, pls give it a read. ty
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Hello everyone. So I have been watching this unfold for a little bit now and I first just want to clarify a few things and an important announcement.
I am not saying that 619 has done everything right, all the time, or even been always reliable, but those issues are irrelevant since this thread as far as I can see is about the SKTLNOT lets everyone voice our grievances about someone.
First of all, everyone in this thread is making a huge assumption that as far as i can see, is completely unsubstantiated, that 619 is not paying people that deserve funds from the tourney.
The first thing I did when this thread came up is I DM'd him because he has been straight with me before and I felt like their might be another side to this coin. I will paste his message to me word for word.
+ Show Spoiler +Dude these guys are some loaded cannons lol. I have been kinda unavailable for the last week but I spoke with eon and told him we where just waiting for Matcherino to fix a $250 error which was fixed literally an hour ago. I told him once it’s done I’ll do payout lol.
721.91 total pp will be paid sooon as I deposit some cash. Got outta work late but I’m off the next two days.
Money’s not an issue. Just using the resources we where given. At the time eon didn’t have an issue lol.
And then he sent me an image of the money:
+ Show Spoiler +https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/363426152431484938/440685724744810496/image.jpg?width=383&height=510
I asked him if I could post this publicly and he agreed, meaning he wants this info to be public.
Eonzerg can respond to whether this was his understanding too.
OK so now that's out of the way, AFAIK 619 has the money, and will send it.
Assuming all goes well, I would like to take this opportunity to have a bit of a soapbox moment.
1. I don't believe 619 is malicious. I am not saying that i think he didn't make mistakes and sometimes serious ones, but alot of y'all made a lot of comments implying malicious intent which is just a different level.
2.I do believe that alot of people gave him such a hard time to do basic stuff. Was their a conflict of interest? Sure that cant be helped because its the SKtl but it was apparent and nobody was forced to join.(seriously so many people acted like entitled jerks because there were some odd decisions) I was in the server since almost day 1 and what I saw was DEFINETLY not blind favoritism, being shady, and one sided behavior. Again this is JUST about SKTL, I wasn't for other things and I can't know what went on in other DM's. I think 619 is a decent guy, from what I've seen.
3. Let's start relaxing a little bit on the BW TL forums. I am admittedly pretty fresh to the forums ( a few years) but wow things like this people get so amped up with claims that arent even Confirmed!! I'm not a Koombyah lets all sit in the circle together type of person but I think we should start treating each other with some more respect. BW is the best game ever created so lets start being the best community.
4. Everything in the above points is my opinon based on my experiences. If you have a different idea or concept By all means share it!! If were really after the truth of this matter than 619 and everyone involved have nothing to fear.
Sorry if It sounds like I'm preachin, but It was on my mind for a bit and I had to say it.
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United States10154 Posts
He's not a decent guy. He's had a bad reputation already from past experiences many people have had with him.
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I hope we are all wrong and he pays out the players but even if this situation were to not occur, people still in majority would hate him Gorgonoth. Do decent people cheat in beginner tournaments for $30? Or intentionally try to rig their own events? Or tell their teammates to cheat? Like how delusional can you be?
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He's off work for the next two days, so people should have their money within the next 24-48 hours?
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People justifying a more than 6 week delay in prize money allocation? LoL!
If $500 was his own money that should have been transferred first week to paypal addresses, latest - Easy.If there was some issue with matcherino coupons then explain the coupons will be sent a little later, but hard to believe some matcherino stuffup has been dragging on for 6 weeks.I don't care what anyone says this payout was obviously very low prority for him.
619's explanation posted a few posts up does not explain why he blocked eonzerg and ignored other correspondances relating to it? Ever think he didn't initiate discussion with matcherino over the supposed $250 glitch because they got in touch with him, because someone a few pages back made a complaint about the situation to matcherino admin?.... Because that seems way more likely to me
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Let me get this straight.
1. Online Tournament.
2. Online Payment.
3. "has the money"
4. Shows picture of...cash? An offline payment?
If I'm running a tournament for online payment, how on earth does showing a stack of cash prove I have the money?
Did they take the money out of their account to prove they have it, but then... they have to put it back in some account to then pay... the winner. My head hurts thinking about this.
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I can assure all of you, I have the money:
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/TuZHVzy.jpg)
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For your information, 619 indeed contacted me yesterday regarding the payment, I will let you guys know, when/if the transaction was done.
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So maybe he does have a soul.
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On May 01 2018 16:23 Cryoc wrote:
For your information, 619 indeed contacted me yesterday regarding the payment, I will let you guys know, when/if the transaction was done.
I guess he had to make a move now that 1/3 of the people have left the clan and the SK discord channel is in disarray.
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after a topic on TL, more than 2 months after league finish and disbanded team....... so what if cryoc never made this topic? xD atleast he said that he will b paying
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Guys the cause of the delay was somewhat on matcherinos end also, he could make any moves until that was fixed which was a few days ago
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On May 01 2018 20:37 Gorgonoth wrote:
Guys the cause of the delay was somewhat on matcherinos end also, he could make any moves until that was fixed which was a few days ago
You should really stop defending 619 and let him speak for himself, you have a great image in this scene, I wouldn't tarnish it by blindly defending 619 every chance you get, let him come forward himself.
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On May 01 2018 23:05 GGzerG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2018 20:37 Gorgonoth wrote:
Guys the cause of the delay was somewhat on matcherinos end also, he could make any moves until that was fixed which was a few days ago You should really stop defending 619 and let him speak for himself, you have a great image in this scene, I wouldn't tarnish it by blindly defending 619 every chance you get, let him come forward himself.
Agree. Why hasn't he posted himself yet to simply clear the air? Don't speak for him. He has his owner fingers (I assume) and can type to this forum. Or maybe better yet, create a new thread and address all these concerns if he actually is a decent person.
Until that happens, or if it ever happens, I will post these words to let it soak in.
Maliciousness / deceitfulness / scum
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On May 01 2018 20:37 Gorgonoth wrote:
Guys the cause of the delay was somewhat on matcherinos end also, he could make any moves until that was fixed which was a few days ago
your defense isn't warranted nor is it not appreciated. I see you are on the side of ensuring people come together and play, but the concerns in the thread are also not coming from thin air either. In a situation like this I tend to try and put myself in the situation, and how I would have dealt with it, as well as what I believe to be the correct way in dealing with it. In the past I have seen SC2 tournaments where organizers spend a few extra months ensuring that their prizes are send exactly to the right person, because it is possible to turn around and scam the organizer by claiming to be said winner without proper research.
As an organizer your responsibility is to run the league as well as keep the teams updated with any issues, or updates. Like letting them know any changes to the rules, or if there is a delay in payments. If 619 had any integrity or honor, he would come up and defend himself with a strong statement and apologize for not informing everyone, instead of just eonzerg asking about the payment. The longer he waits, the easier it becomes to believe that he had taken the money and run. The moment he found about this thread, the tone in it would have been more light, he had just posted himself and said something, instead of Gorgonoth speaking on his behalf. It tells me he is afraid, and a bit spineless to let this thread go on this long without even a word, but instead showing a picture of a large stack of money.
+ Show Spoiler +www.tineye.comJust because the picture is real doesn't mean I totally buy it still.
Sure he can be a busy guy, but not that busy to write I will give you guys and update as soon as I get off work.
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LOL that image of the money is the funniest thing I have ever seen in my history of online / gaming tournament payouts.
The fact that 619 has the audacity to send an image of the money and not just handle this issue in a professional manner is proof in itself that him and anyone like him should be permanently banned from here, to preserve and grow this community.
Little shit shows like this that should be miniscule and handled in a quick fashion, shouldn't even happen.
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Ok guys I think I may have made a mistake, I should stop trying to make a personal defense of 619 and from now on he can say whatever he wants. I really just wanted to get what I thought was the truth of the situation out, as long as people know that he will send the money, then I'm done with this and I just wanna forget that this whole tourney ever happened.
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I don't think anyone 'knows' that he'll send the money. I guess we'll find out sometime today, as he's off work today and tomorrow.
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On May 02 2018 00:50 Gorgonoth wrote:
Ok guys I think I may have made a mistake, I should stop trying to make a personal defense of 619 and from now on he can say whatever he wants. I really just wanted to get what I thought was the truth of the situation out, as long as people know that he will send the money, then I'm done with this and I just wanna forget that this whole tourney ever happened.
I think your heart is in the right place. A lot of people indirectly involved with this do.
At this point we should just let actions speak.
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So I received a pm from 619
"ok so this is wahts going to happen terror
I could not get a hold of Dragon to give him the payout for NaS 3rd place $72.19 so I am going to assign you the payout for the $72.19 - can you please give this to dragon. thats is for his player distribution.
also, i just dont have time to collect payment info from quantel and hes unavailable so i couldnt split it evenely through matcherino between (bonyth, dewalt, quantel, and yourself) so I will be sending you 100% of SK-A's winnins for SKTL
can you please send the $54 and some change to bonyth, dewalt, and quantel? the total payout for sk is $216.57.
payout done" .
As I am in the same team with dragon and quantel I will contact them but I need dewalt and bonyth to contact me you can find me in discord or pm here.
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Good news. 619 came through and paid the prize money, so the issue is resolved.
Maybe it was just really bad timing on iFU's part to go public about it at this time and cause all this commotion for basically nothing (though given the same circumstances I would do the same).
But the speculations can stop now since 619 kept his word and delivered.
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Thanks to everyone who participated in the league! I will say that I have been super unavailable due to my work schedule and moving into a new house. When eOn reached out to me I let him know exactly what was going on, and that we where waiting for expired coupons to be reapplied to the matcherino prize pool ($239 value) before we could make the payout. At the time of the conversation I also told him that I would contact him when it gets done and it should be within two weeks. I didn't hear another word from him until today when he sent me confirmation that it was ok to payout Cryoc in full for iFus distribution.
Final SKTL Payout: $721.91
Total 12 month payout between tournaments and SKTL: $4200++++++++++++++++++++
NEVER HAD A PAYOUT ISSUE!
https://matcherino.com/tournaments/8078/description
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On May 02 2018 00:15 GGzerG wrote:LOL that image of the money is the funniest thing I have ever seen in my history of online / gaming tournament payouts. The fact that 619 has the audacity to send an image of the money and not just handle this issue in a professional manner is proof in itself that him and anyone like him should be permanently banned from here, to preserve and grow this community. Little shit shows like this that should be miniscule and handled in a quick fashion, shouldn't even happen.
Why the fuck would I spend my personal money when I spent countless to hours obtain resources to host this kind of event with the possibility of even greater payout? STFU and sit down. I do what the fuck I want with my money.
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On May 02 2018 03:13 619 wrote:
NEVER HAD A PAYOUT ISSUE!
I mean, the fact there's a thread about it and it's 4 months late; you blocked the people involved and then instead of apologizing, decide to curse out people who are suspicious... Yeah, I'd say there's been some issues.
Please never let this happen again. Our scene is too small and fragile to have these types of issues dissuading people from wanting to join team leagues.
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Thats complete bullshit I never blocked anyone. The league ended middle of March and again I was in complete contact with eOn until 04/02 and that was the last conversation we had. I have attached our discord screenshots. Until you know the situation keep your fucking opinions to yourself.
![[image loading]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/432755864311562240/440944655669002250/unknown.png)
The payment was not 4 months late... the league just ended about 6 wks ago... after that I was waiting for matcherino to reapply the credits that where allocated to this event that had been mistakenly removed. if you cant understand this situation and you think that i was dicking around just holding your money, then I dont know what to say to you.
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On May 02 2018 03:41 619 wrote:Thats complete bullshit I never blocked anyone. The league ended middle of March and again I was in complete contact with eOn until 04/02 and that was the last conversation we had. I have attached our discord screenshots. Until you know the situation keep your fucking opinions to yourself. The payment was not 4 months late... the league just ended about 6 wks ago... after that I was waiting for matcherino to reapply the credits that where allocated to this event that had been mistakenly removed. if you cant understand this situation and you think that i was dicking around just holding your money, then I dont know what to say to you.
Bro, maybe you should read the topic. The OP claimed that eonzerg was blocked. No one refuted this until now. Three days after the accusation was made. And it sounded really damning. None of your clanmates had an inkling of a clue what was going on, and you couldn't be arsed to spend 5 minutes to tell people it was not the case.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 28 2018 22:28 Cryoc wrote:
Since then nothing. When Eonzerg tried to contact him again on Monday April 23rd, he was blocked by 619. So I wrote him a message on Discord on Tuesday regarding the SKTL prize money while he was online listening to Spotify, but I did not receive any answer. The Discord server for SKTL was also deleted in the meantime.
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Yeah theres been a bunch of accusations that where complete bullshit and instead of anyone reaching out to me directly they posted in the public drama forums once again to try and crucify someone for bullshit. I was fucking working - doing life. The second I had realized there was an issue was two nights ago I sent messages to Cryoc, Dragon, and everyone from SK that was still around. This shit moved so fast because everyone assumed this accusations where true before asking for any clarification. I was in completely transparent with eonzerg this shit should have never happened period.
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On May 02 2018 03:54 619 wrote:
Yeah theres been a bunch of accusations that where complete bullshit and instead of anyone reaching out to me directly they posted in the public drama forums once again to try and crucify someone for bullshit. I was fucking working - doing life. The second I had realized there was an issue was two nights ago I sent messages to Cryoc, Dragon, and everyone from SK that was still around. This shit moved so fast because everyone assumed this accusations where true before asking for any clarification. I was in completely transparent with eonzerg this shit should have never happened period.
A bunch of people tried to contact you, that is why this topic was made.
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It could have been me offering some bullshit tournament with the sale of my hockey cards and completely scamming everyone. I see alot of people here that supported that clown when he was giving me problems.
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On May 02 2018 03:55 SCC-Faust wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2018 03:54 619 wrote:
Yeah theres been a bunch of accusations that where complete bullshit and instead of anyone reaching out to me directly they posted in the public drama forums once again to try and crucify someone for bullshit. I was fucking working - doing life. The second I had realized there was an issue was two nights ago I sent messages to Cryoc, Dragon, and everyone from SK that was still around. This shit moved so fast because everyone assumed this accusations where true before asking for any clarification. I was in completely transparent with eonzerg this shit should have never happened period. A bunch of people tried to contact you, that is why this topic was made.
I worked 14 hours the day this started, and have no access to a computer. I didnt get home and check discord. I literally got home and fell asleep right away.
Second day I worked 10 hours, got home from work and responded to all the messages from anyone on discord. Also contacted matcherino and let them know that winners where getting impatient.
soon as matcherino applied the credit the payout was complete.
dont know what more you want.
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ClydeBOT - Today at 7:43 PM
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i guess since he deleted the SKTL discord channel i couldnt contact him anymore.but is not like he did any effort to contact me or anything.
anyway thanks for keeping your word.gl hf
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Now that you're here 619 and I reckon you'd want to make things clear, and for the sake of wanting to ask and get a better understanding, I hope it's okay if I ask a couple of questions. I don't really mean to accuse, but rather to understand. I'll admit that I don't really like you, but that's based on what I've actually seen from you in various teamleagues. But I think it's important to keep an open mind and just because I don't quite like someone, it doesn't mean everything they do is bad.
Sometimes we're wrong. And I want to make sure I get it right. There are some points that are especially interesting to me.
1. Cryoc mentions that he contacted you on "Tuesday", which I assume was meant as Tuesday the 24th of April (seeing as it was the day after Eonzerg claimed to have been blocked). Why did you not reply to Cryoc until a week later, when this topic was made? You mention 14 and 10 hours work days, but when the payment was already nearly 4 weeks late* from when it was promised it would make sense you'd be aware that they'd need an update. (*Referring to the Discord conversation where you said at March 14th that the money should be paid within 2 weeks.)
2. There are some accusations that you got caught joining tournaments to win 50$ prizes, where you were clearly above the skill level which the tournament was intended for. Is this correct? If not, is there anything in particular that can be said to rebuke the accusations? I find this relevant regarding character, rather than any other relevance to this case.
You might not want to answer all of this, and you might think it's bullshit of me to even ask. But quite frankly I think in a case like this, patience goes a long way. I can easily understand it must be extremely frustrating to see something blow up while being busy, just to see it blow so far out of proportions without being able to do jack shit about it. Which makes it all the more easy to let that frustration seep into the replies.
But I'm not quite convinced about your character yet. Suddenly becoming available and paying it out after being called out could just be poor timing, but it could also be a hope that people would forget that got crushed. I've been wrong abotu people before and I don't mind apologizing even though it stings to be on "the wrong side of history". But I also don't want a chance to interact with you slide.
I'd rather hear your thoughts, than sit alone with mine.
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It's great its paid out. At the end he kept his word.
Here's the real question though - would 619 have paid this out if this was not made public? My opinion is NO. He would not have come out of the depths of mordor and make the payment and a few posts.
I don't trust the character and I don't feel he should be in charge of leagues or holding money. This is just my opinion of the matter. Once something like this happen, people lose trust.
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I'm glad that everything was resolved, and I'm glad that numerous people stepped up to say that making premature judgements after hearing only one side of the story isn't the right way to go about it.
It's of course a suboptimal situation overall, but I have the feeling that even if 619 appeared the same day the thread was posted with screenshots of emails detailing issues with Matcherino and etc., people would still find something to cling to because of pre-existing biases and rumors.
This isn't to say that there's no chance that things were handled suboptimally somewhere in the past month+, but it should at least serve as an example of how "he said, she said" can turn a situation that looks bad on the surface into a massive drama bomb after only one side has had a chance to speak.
I'm aware of the story that 619 participated in the D- tournament; I was actually inquiring about this issue with the tournament organizer, casters, and some of the participants when pursuing a different matter (unrelated to 619). When they said that they think it was 619 who played but on a smurf account, my first thought was "Oh, well he's not too far from that level." No offense, 619. Anyway, now when I hear people saying in this thread that the player in question had 200 APM and perfect build orders, I grow even more skeptical, because that is just not 619's play (again, no offense). Either that person is heavily embellishing the story, which goes along with what I said earlier in this post about drama bombs, or the person who played in the tournament wasn't 619. There is of course the possibility that more than one player smurfed into that tournament, one of which was 619, which was separate from the 200 APM perfect build order player, and the poster just got confused. That goes to show that people should be sure of what they are saying and accusing others of, perhaps with reference links and sources to substantiate their claims.
TL:DR; People should try to focus on the facts and hear both sides of the story before turning into a pack of rabid hyenas, even when the circumstances and testimonies seem to point in a certain direction.
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Hey guys,
This is Michael from Matcherino. I was contacted about this. When I learned that there was an issue, I reached out to x619 whom I had already spoke with in the past about the league many times.
He assured me that the prize was going to be paid out asap and that he had been bogged down by a move. True to his word, he went and paid the prize out.
I can't speak to the past, but I can assure you that in every conversation that I've had with x619 it was clear to me that he was acting in good faith and had no intention of being a fly by night organizer. I'm glad that the issue was resolved and I hope we can continue to support Broodwar events on Matcherino.
Thanks,
Michael
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On May 02 2018 06:17 Jealous wrote:
I'm glad that everything was resolved, and I'm glad that numerous people stepped up to say that making premature judgements after hearing only one side of the story isn't the right way to go about it.
It's of course a suboptimal situation overall, but I have the feeling that even if 619 appeared the same day the thread was posted with screenshots of emails detailing issues with Matcherino and etc., people would still find something to cling to because of pre-existing biases and rumors.
This isn't to say that there's no chance that things were handled suboptimally somewhere in the past month+, but it should at least serve as an example of how "he said, she said" can turn a situation that looks bad on the surface into a massive drama bomb after only one side has had a chance to speak.
I'm aware of the story that 619 participated in the D- tournament; I was actually inquiring about this issue with the tournament organizer, casters, and some of the participants when pursuing a different matter (unrelated to 619). When they said that they think it was 619 who played but on a smurf account, my first thought was "Oh, well he's not too far from that level." No offense, 619. Anyway, now when I hear people saying in this thread that the player in question had 200 APM and perfect build orders, I grow even more skeptical, because that is just not 619's play (again, no offense). Either that person is heavily embellishing the story, which goes along with what I said earlier in this post about drama bombs, or the person who played in the tournament wasn't 619. There is of course the possibility that more than one player smurfed into that tournament, one of which was 619, which was separate from the 200 APM perfect build order player, and the poster just got confused. That goes to show that people should be sure of what they are saying and accusing others of, perhaps with reference links and sources to substantiate their claims.
TL:DR; People should try to focus on the facts and hear both sides of the story before turning into a pack of rabid hyenas, even when the circumstances and testimonies seem to point in a certain direction.
You've always been really good at turning 1 sentence into 3 paragraphs...
TL ; DR - "I'm Defending 619 because I was in his team previously and I feel bad that he now paid the money back, even though he is clearly lying and was dodging PM's"
I also agree with you SuGo ,I was going to write exactly what you wrote there, but I didn't feel the need to stir this up anymore than it already has been, especially after he paid... although it is all too obvious that due to his 'Character', his statements, and even defending himself while bringing up context of Eywa's hockey card incident, it is pretty obvious that he is lying, and was in fact delaying and dodging PM's until he could / would pay, or shit hit the fan like this.
619 I would respond to you, but you basically already responded for me with the level of stupidity shown in your posts lol, kind of funny to see you telling me to STFU... obvious lying defensive rager =P
gl hf GGs
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maybe next time 619 hosts a tournament he should take bisudagger's offer to hold the prize money, he says he's a software engineer so $721 should be peanuts to him
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On May 02 2018 06:34 GGzerG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2018 06:17 Jealous wrote:
I'm glad that everything was resolved, and I'm glad that numerous people stepped up to say that making premature judgements after hearing only one side of the story isn't the right way to go about it.
It's of course a suboptimal situation overall, but I have the feeling that even if 619 appeared the same day the thread was posted with screenshots of emails detailing issues with Matcherino and etc., people would still find something to cling to because of pre-existing biases and rumors.
This isn't to say that there's no chance that things were handled suboptimally somewhere in the past month+, but it should at least serve as an example of how "he said, she said" can turn a situation that looks bad on the surface into a massive drama bomb after only one side has had a chance to speak.
I'm aware of the story that 619 participated in the D- tournament; I was actually inquiring about this issue with the tournament organizer, casters, and some of the participants when pursuing a different matter (unrelated to 619). When they said that they think it was 619 who played but on a smurf account, my first thought was "Oh, well he's not too far from that level." No offense, 619. Anyway, now when I hear people saying in this thread that the player in question had 200 APM and perfect build orders, I grow even more skeptical, because that is just not 619's play (again, no offense). Either that person is heavily embellishing the story, which goes along with what I said earlier in this post about drama bombs, or the person who played in the tournament wasn't 619. There is of course the possibility that more than one player smurfed into that tournament, one of which was 619, which was separate from the 200 APM perfect build order player, and the poster just got confused. That goes to show that people should be sure of what they are saying and accusing others of, perhaps with reference links and sources to substantiate their claims.
TL:DR; People should try to focus on the facts and hear both sides of the story before turning into a pack of rabid hyenas, even when the circumstances and testimonies seem to point in a certain direction. You've always been really good at turning 1 sentence into 3 paragraphs... TL ; DR - "I'm Defending 619 because I was in his team previously and I feel bad that he now paid the money back, even though he is clearly lying and was dodging PM's" I also agree with you SuGo ,I was going to write exactly what you wrote there, but I didn't feel the need to stir this up anymore than it already has been, especially after he paid... although it is all too obvious that due to his 'Character', his statements, and even defending himself while bringing up context of Eywa's hockey card incident, it is pretty obvious that he is lying, and was in fact delaying and dodging PM's until he could / would pay, or shit hit the fan like this. 619 I would respond to you, but you basically already responded for me with the level of stupidity shown in your posts lol, kind of funny to see you telling me to STFU... obvious lying defensive rager =P gl hf GGs
You have got the be the single most unliked person in broodwar. Just cuz you coudlnt make the B team roster dont be salty. Stfu kid.
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On May 02 2018 06:34 GGzerG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2018 06:17 Jealous wrote:
I'm glad that everything was resolved, and I'm glad that numerous people stepped up to say that making premature judgements after hearing only one side of the story isn't the right way to go about it.
It's of course a suboptimal situation overall, but I have the feeling that even if 619 appeared the same day the thread was posted with screenshots of emails detailing issues with Matcherino and etc., people would still find something to cling to because of pre-existing biases and rumors.
This isn't to say that there's no chance that things were handled suboptimally somewhere in the past month+, but it should at least serve as an example of how "he said, she said" can turn a situation that looks bad on the surface into a massive drama bomb after only one side has had a chance to speak.
I'm aware of the story that 619 participated in the D- tournament; I was actually inquiring about this issue with the tournament organizer, casters, and some of the participants when pursuing a different matter (unrelated to 619). When they said that they think it was 619 who played but on a smurf account, my first thought was "Oh, well he's not too far from that level." No offense, 619. Anyway, now when I hear people saying in this thread that the player in question had 200 APM and perfect build orders, I grow even more skeptical, because that is just not 619's play (again, no offense). Either that person is heavily embellishing the story, which goes along with what I said earlier in this post about drama bombs, or the person who played in the tournament wasn't 619. There is of course the possibility that more than one player smurfed into that tournament, one of which was 619, which was separate from the 200 APM perfect build order player, and the poster just got confused. That goes to show that people should be sure of what they are saying and accusing others of, perhaps with reference links and sources to substantiate their claims.
TL:DR; People should try to focus on the facts and hear both sides of the story before turning into a pack of rabid hyenas, even when the circumstances and testimonies seem to point in a certain direction. You've always been really good at turning 1 sentence into 3 paragraphs... TL ; DR - "I'm Defending 619 because I was in his team previously and I feel bad that he now paid the money back, even though he is clearly lying and was dodging PM's" I also agree with you SuGo ,I was going to write exactly what you wrote there, but I didn't feel the need to stir this up anymore than it already has been, especially after he paid... although it is all too obvious that due to his 'Character', his statements, and even defending himself while bringing up context of Eywa's hockey card incident, it is pretty obvious that he is lying, and was in fact delaying and dodging PM's until he could / would pay, or shit hit the fan like this. 619 I would respond to you, but you basically already responded for me with the level of stupidity shown in your posts lol, kind of funny to see you telling me to STFU... obvious lying defensive rager =P gl hf GGs
go back to your garbage minimum wage job and hopping on trying to make friends when you sound like your so fucked off from heroin kid.
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On May 02 2018 05:52 ProtossGG wrote:
It's great its paid out. At the end he kept his word.
Here's the real question though - would 619 have paid this out if this was not made public? My opinion is NO. He would not have come out of the depths of mordor and make the payment and a few posts.
I don't trust the character and I don't feel he should be in charge of leagues or holding money. This is just my opinion of the matter. Once something like this happen, people lose trust.
Once something like what happens? Dont worry that $4200 that came from my pocket in the last 12 months wont be going to the BW community again. And if you think for a second I would let one of you guys hold my money to distribute youre higher than jesus himself son.
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On May 02 2018 06:17 Jealous wrote:
I'm aware of the story that 619 participated in the D- tournament; I was actually inquiring about this issue with the tournament organizer, casters, and some of the participants when pursuing a different matter (unrelated to 619). When they said that they think it was 619 who played but on a smurf account, my first thought was "Oh, well he's not too far from that level." No offense, 619. Anyway, now when I hear people saying in this thread that the player in question had 200 APM and perfect build orders, I grow even more skeptical, because that is just not 619's play (again, no offense). Either that person is heavily embellishing the story, which goes along with what I said earlier in this post about drama bombs, or the person who played in the tournament wasn't 619. There is of course the possibility that more than one player smurfed into that tournament, one of which was 619, which was separate from the 200 APM perfect build order player, and the poster just got confused. That goes to show that people should be sure of what they are saying and accusing others of, perhaps with reference links and sources to substantiate their claims.
TL:DR; People should try to focus on the facts and hear both sides of the story before turning into a pack of rabid hyenas, even when the circumstances and testimonies seem to point in a certain direction.
Yeah, because that isn't how it goes. I know that the burden of proof relies on the accuser, but this information is publicly available and is in large part why he has such a bad reputation. Ignorance isn't even an excuse at this point.
Topic where the controversy took place: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/526262-beginner-tournament-4
The discord where the controversy took place: http://discord.gg/bdBT3VS
619 was DQ'd because of how well he played. This is amazing to you because that is contrary to 619's skill level. Common logic suggests he had someone smurf for him. This is why people are also mentioning Magician here.
"Magician" was supposedly trying to enter the tournament as a smurf before it even started in the screenies here:
![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/03fe4f20df5ec3fa62f37d982217a8c7.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/5a61e98ed360414053b3a3b7171d32d7.png)
Account in question:
![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/677bbfb0612dc1cbae3b80dde43e5b7f.png)
I wonder who played on 619's account?
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On May 02 2018 04:36 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
ClydeBOT - Today at 7:43 PM
Your message could not be delivered because you don't share a server with the recipient or you disabled direct messages on your shared server, recipient is only accepting direct messages from friends, or you were blocked by the recipient.
Only you can see this — delete this message.
i guess since he deleted the SKTL discord channel i couldnt contact him anymore.but is not like he did any effort to contact me or anything.
anyway thanks for keeping your word.gl hf
Np. Again, when I contacted you last I said I would let you know when it was complete and we where ready to do payout. Its not like we where friends before, I had no reason to message you until it was completed like we discussed. Whats done is done tho.
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On May 02 2018 06:51 619 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2018 06:34 GGzerG wrote:On May 02 2018 06:17 Jealous wrote:
I'm glad that everything was resolved, and I'm glad that numerous people stepped up to say that making premature judgements after hearing only one side of the story isn't the right way to go about it.
It's of course a suboptimal situation overall, but I have the feeling that even if 619 appeared the same day the thread was posted with screenshots of emails detailing issues with Matcherino and etc., people would still find something to cling to because of pre-existing biases and rumors.
This isn't to say that there's no chance that things were handled suboptimally somewhere in the past month+, but it should at least serve as an example of how "he said, she said" can turn a situation that looks bad on the surface into a massive drama bomb after only one side has had a chance to speak.
I'm aware of the story that 619 participated in the D- tournament; I was actually inquiring about this issue with the tournament organizer, casters, and some of the participants when pursuing a different matter (unrelated to 619). When they said that they think it was 619 who played but on a smurf account, my first thought was "Oh, well he's not too far from that level." No offense, 619. Anyway, now when I hear people saying in this thread that the player in question had 200 APM and perfect build orders, I grow even more skeptical, because that is just not 619's play (again, no offense). Either that person is heavily embellishing the story, which goes along with what I said earlier in this post about drama bombs, or the person who played in the tournament wasn't 619. There is of course the possibility that more than one player smurfed into that tournament, one of which was 619, which was separate from the 200 APM perfect build order player, and the poster just got confused. That goes to show that people should be sure of what they are saying and accusing others of, perhaps with reference links and sources to substantiate their claims.
TL:DR; People should try to focus on the facts and hear both sides of the story before turning into a pack of rabid hyenas, even when the circumstances and testimonies seem to point in a certain direction. You've always been really good at turning 1 sentence into 3 paragraphs... TL ; DR - "I'm Defending 619 because I was in his team previously and I feel bad that he now paid the money back, even though he is clearly lying and was dodging PM's" I also agree with you SuGo ,I was going to write exactly what you wrote there, but I didn't feel the need to stir this up anymore than it already has been, especially after he paid... although it is all too obvious that due to his 'Character', his statements, and even defending himself while bringing up context of Eywa's hockey card incident, it is pretty obvious that he is lying, and was in fact delaying and dodging PM's until he could / would pay, or shit hit the fan like this. 619 I would respond to you, but you basically already responded for me with the level of stupidity shown in your posts lol, kind of funny to see you telling me to STFU... obvious lying defensive rager =P gl hf GGs go back to your garbage minimum wage job and hopping on trying to make friends when you sound like your so fucked off from heroin kid.
First off I never wanted to join [SK] (that is hilarious) secondly I make a lot more than minimum wage, and thirdly I don't do heroin LOL... wtf?
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This guy was dragged through the mud before he had a chance to respond.
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On May 02 2018 06:59 SCC-Faust wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2018 06:17 Jealous wrote:
I'm aware of the story that 619 participated in the D- tournament; I was actually inquiring about this issue with the tournament organizer, casters, and some of the participants when pursuing a different matter (unrelated to 619). When they said that they think it was 619 who played but on a smurf account, my first thought was "Oh, well he's not too far from that level." No offense, 619. Anyway, now when I hear people saying in this thread that the player in question had 200 APM and perfect build orders, I grow even more skeptical, because that is just not 619's play (again, no offense). Either that person is heavily embellishing the story, which goes along with what I said earlier in this post about drama bombs, or the person who played in the tournament wasn't 619. There is of course the possibility that more than one player smurfed into that tournament, one of which was 619, which was separate from the 200 APM perfect build order player, and the poster just got confused. That goes to show that people should be sure of what they are saying and accusing others of, perhaps with reference links and sources to substantiate their claims.
TL:DR; People should try to focus on the facts and hear both sides of the story before turning into a pack of rabid hyenas, even when the circumstances and testimonies seem to point in a certain direction. Yeah, because that isn't how it goes. I know that the burden of proof relies on the accuser, but this information is publicly available and is in large part why he has such a bad reputation. Ignorance isn't even an excuse at this point. Topic where the controversy took place: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/526262-beginner-tournament-4The discord where the controversy took place: http://discord.gg/bdBT3VS619 was DQ'd because of how well he played. This is amazing to you because that is contrary to 619's skill level. Common logic suggests he had someone smurf for him. This is why people are also mentioning Magician here. "Magician" was supposedly trying to enter the tournament as a smurf before it even started in the screenies here: Account in question: I wonder who played on 619's account?
Honestly theres like 3 people in the clan that knew my logins before I put on 2 step verification. I didnt even know this was happening when it did - and after he got caught I just wasnt going to throw him under the bus and I was willing to take the blame. Good to know people hating on me because of that still. xd
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On May 02 2018 07:08 GGzerG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2018 06:51 619 wrote:On May 02 2018 06:34 GGzerG wrote:On May 02 2018 06:17 Jealous wrote:
I'm glad that everything was resolved, and I'm glad that numerous people stepped up to say that making premature judgements after hearing only one side of the story isn't the right way to go about it.
It's of course a suboptimal situation overall, but I have the feeling that even if 619 appeared the same day the thread was posted with screenshots of emails detailing issues with Matcherino and etc., people would still find something to cling to because of pre-existing biases and rumors.
This isn't to say that there's no chance that things were handled suboptimally somewhere in the past month+, but it should at least serve as an example of how "he said, she said" can turn a situation that looks bad on the surface into a massive drama bomb after only one side has had a chance to speak.
I'm aware of the story that 619 participated in the D- tournament; I was actually inquiring about this issue with the tournament organizer, casters, and some of the participants when pursuing a different matter (unrelated to 619). When they said that they think it was 619 who played but on a smurf account, my first thought was "Oh, well he's not too far from that level." No offense, 619. Anyway, now when I hear people saying in this thread that the player in question had 200 APM and perfect build orders, I grow even more skeptical, because that is just not 619's play (again, no offense). Either that person is heavily embellishing the story, which goes along with what I said earlier in this post about drama bombs, or the person who played in the tournament wasn't 619. There is of course the possibility that more than one player smurfed into that tournament, one of which was 619, which was separate from the 200 APM perfect build order player, and the poster just got confused. That goes to show that people should be sure of what they are saying and accusing others of, perhaps with reference links and sources to substantiate their claims.
TL:DR; People should try to focus on the facts and hear both sides of the story before turning into a pack of rabid hyenas, even when the circumstances and testimonies seem to point in a certain direction. You've always been really good at turning 1 sentence into 3 paragraphs... TL ; DR - "I'm Defending 619 because I was in his team previously and I feel bad that he now paid the money back, even though he is clearly lying and was dodging PM's" I also agree with you SuGo ,I was going to write exactly what you wrote there, but I didn't feel the need to stir this up anymore than it already has been, especially after he paid... although it is all too obvious that due to his 'Character', his statements, and even defending himself while bringing up context of Eywa's hockey card incident, it is pretty obvious that he is lying, and was in fact delaying and dodging PM's until he could / would pay, or shit hit the fan like this. 619 I would respond to you, but you basically already responded for me with the level of stupidity shown in your posts lol, kind of funny to see you telling me to STFU... obvious lying defensive rager =P gl hf GGs go back to your garbage minimum wage job and hopping on trying to make friends when you sound like your so fucked off from heroin kid. First off I never wanted to join [SK] (that is hilarious) secondly I make a lot more than minimum wage, and thirdly I don't do heroin LOL... wtf?
Really kid? You never wanted to join SK? [SK]Agent420 ? That wasnt you? Bitch stfu and go get drunk and try and start another "TL ill meet you in person brawl" you little bitch. Dont be coming to me with your basket full of bullshit lies.
User was temp banned for this post.
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You are welcome to come to me when you need more advise for an idea, dont talk shit behind my back though you chump.
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On May 02 2018 06:34 GGzerG wrote:
619 I would respond to you, but you basically already responded for me with the level of stupidity shown in your posts lol, kind of funny to see you telling me to STFU... obvious lying defensive rager =P
gl hf GGs
On May 02 2018 06:51 619 wrote:
go back to your garbage minimum wage job and hopping on trying to make friends when you sound like your so fucked off from heroin kid.
On May 02 2018 07:16 619 wrote:
Honestly theres like 3 people in the clan that knew my logins before I put on 2 step verification. I didnt even know this was happening when it did - and after he got caught I just wasnt going to throw him under the bus and I was willing to take the blame. Good to know people hating on me because of that still. xd
On May 02 2018 03:55 619 wrote:
It could have been me offering some bullshit tournament with the sale of my hockey cards and completely scamming everyone. I see alot of people here that supported that clown when he was giving me problems.
"I'm not as bad as this other guy."
On May 02 2018 03:54 619 wrote:
Yeah theres been a bunch of accusations that where complete bullshit and instead of anyone reaching out to me directly they posted in the public drama forums once again to try and crucify someone for bullshit. I was fucking working - doing life.
"I have a life, you nerds. That's why it took four weeks and a thread calling me out to pay up."
On May 02 2018 06:27 JambonRoseM wrote:
Hey guys,
This is Michael from Matcherino.
I was hoping for Michael from Vsauce, but I guess this is okay, too.
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On May 02 2018 07:20 619 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2018 07:08 GGzerG wrote:On May 02 2018 06:51 619 wrote:On May 02 2018 06:34 GGzerG wrote:On May 02 2018 06:17 Jealous wrote:
I'm glad that everything was resolved, and I'm glad that numerous people stepped up to say that making premature judgements after hearing only one side of the story isn't the right way to go about it.
It's of course a suboptimal situation overall, but I have the feeling that even if 619 appeared the same day the thread was posted with screenshots of emails detailing issues with Matcherino and etc., people would still find something to cling to because of pre-existing biases and rumors.
This isn't to say that there's no chance that things were handled suboptimally somewhere in the past month+, but it should at least serve as an example of how "he said, she said" can turn a situation that looks bad on the surface into a massive drama bomb after only one side has had a chance to speak.
I'm aware of the story that 619 participated in the D- tournament; I was actually inquiring about this issue with the tournament organizer, casters, and some of the participants when pursuing a different matter (unrelated to 619). When they said that they think it was 619 who played but on a smurf account, my first thought was "Oh, well he's not too far from that level." No offense, 619. Anyway, now when I hear people saying in this thread that the player in question had 200 APM and perfect build orders, I grow even more skeptical, because that is just not 619's play (again, no offense). Either that person is heavily embellishing the story, which goes along with what I said earlier in this post about drama bombs, or the person who played in the tournament wasn't 619. There is of course the possibility that more than one player smurfed into that tournament, one of which was 619, which was separate from the 200 APM perfect build order player, and the poster just got confused. That goes to show that people should be sure of what they are saying and accusing others of, perhaps with reference links and sources to substantiate their claims.
TL:DR; People should try to focus on the facts and hear both sides of the story before turning into a pack of rabid hyenas, even when the circumstances and testimonies seem to point in a certain direction. You've always been really good at turning 1 sentence into 3 paragraphs... TL ; DR - "I'm Defending 619 because I was in his team previously and I feel bad that he now paid the money back, even though he is clearly lying and was dodging PM's" I also agree with you SuGo ,I was going to write exactly what you wrote there, but I didn't feel the need to stir this up anymore than it already has been, especially after he paid... although it is all too obvious that due to his 'Character', his statements, and even defending himself while bringing up context of Eywa's hockey card incident, it is pretty obvious that he is lying, and was in fact delaying and dodging PM's until he could / would pay, or shit hit the fan like this. 619 I would respond to you, but you basically already responded for me with the level of stupidity shown in your posts lol, kind of funny to see you telling me to STFU... obvious lying defensive rager =P gl hf GGs go back to your garbage minimum wage job and hopping on trying to make friends when you sound like your so fucked off from heroin kid. First off I never wanted to join [SK] (that is hilarious) secondly I make a lot more than minimum wage, and thirdly I don't do heroin LOL... wtf? Really kid? You never wanted to join SK? [SK]Agent420 ? That wasnt you? Bitch stfu and go get drunk and try and start another "TL ill meet you in person brawl" you little bitch. Dont be coming to me with your basket full of bullshit lies.
lol dude agent420[SK] was a joke, I never wanted to be in your team nor is it allowed with the clan i'm already in, it was an obvious joke, who would take the name ' agent420 ' seriously? You really have some issues kid, get off your high horse, you are not even good at this game....and you try to bring in someone's personal life that isn't even real lol...
I don't drink either anymore, because I get cluster headaches actually, I stopped drinking quite some time ago...I only smoke if you care to know
Asking you for advice? I talk to a lot of people about ideas / thoughts for the scene, don't feel special lol.
Good job you paid, but I guess your shit show is over now, your clan is dead, and no one will trust you with events anymore. GL.
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@619 No point in responding to the village idiot whose sole MO seems to be attempting to make other people more hated than him by any means necessary so that he isn't at the bottom of the barrel.
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Croatia9500 Posts
Jesus, when did this turn into Clan X17 channel?
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EPT![[image loading]](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/363426152431484938/440685724744810496/image.jpg?width=383&height=510)
![[image loading]](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/440989183482527764/441001286683590671/unknown.png?width=1248&height=702)
