EPTIs Protoss too weak in LotV? - Page 2
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dr3am_b3ing
Canada188 Posts
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K)Vincent
Belarus29 Posts
...and please don't tell me that PvZ wasn't broken in HoTS | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 18 2015 22:57 Mozdk wrote: Well lings weren't removed, and gold still favours zerg, so these things will not become standard. Not without buffing all protoss units. Especially workers  That was the note in the end, that some things haven't changed I partially agree.On November 18 2015 23:13 K)Vincent wrote: I just think that after 3 years of blinkstalker+sentry a-move into freewin protoss now needs more than 1 week to figure out how to win vs zerg. ...and please don't tell me that PvZ wasn't broken in HoTS So the nerf of Swarmhosts happened April 2015 and you tell me the PvZ meta for 3 years was blinkstalker sentry a-move? Are you trolling or what? Don't you remember what PvZ looked like before the nerf? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Patch_2.1.9#Balance_Update After the patch KeSPA cup was literally dominated by Zerg and Terran players, in the finals were 2 Zergs. And we have, for example, DH Stockholm, where 2 of the best Protosses(Rain, sOs) were not in the finals. And we have plenty of second places across the 2015. It doesn't look like free win to me... Edit> Plenty of second places for Zerg. | ||
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TheoMikkelsen
Denmark196 Posts
On November 18 2015 22:37 FireCake wrote: -You must not waste photon overcharge, you need to wait that the zerg engage and then use it, if the zerg retreats he will lose many units. You should do something like using 1 photon overcharge when the zerg is in front of your bases then if he engages uses 2-3-4 more photon overcharge. -You don't want your pylon to be clump even against lings. The goal is not to make a perfect wall so units can't reach your army, the goal is to slow the opponent army with your buildings. -If the zerg simply destroy some pylons and don't commit it is very good for you because he delayed his whole tech (ravager are gas expensive) and probably his economy. It gives you enough time to get a good army then expand/attack -Voidrays are very helpful to defend against ravagers but you obviously can't rely only on this unit. Voidrays force the zerg player to either commit immediatly to an attack and thus lose his whole army because you have 5+ photon overcharge waiting for him, or retreat. How do you mean not waste photon overcharge? Ravagers outrange both cannons and pylons, so I am not 100% sure what you mean? I might be mistaken here, but usually zerg just engages with Ravagers and one-shots 1-2-3 pylons/cannons every 7 second using splash. Yeah I am splitting my pylons but if there are 8-9 ravagers and 30 lings by 5:30 versus 2-4 adepts, a tech unit (immotal,oracle,voidray) and 4-5 pylons + MSC and nothing else, stopping this attack is very, very hard, if not impossible. Protoss literally has to delay his 3rd base and all the pylons required to defend in order to get infrastructure to make units, cuz zerg can simply kill 2 pylons every 7 second untill he can just engage and win. Like the thing is that protoss needs to make a ton of pylons and 80% of his DPS will be pylons, but if they dont hit ravagers, it wont take long before zerg will have overhwhelming numbers. I have not watched petitdrogos stream, but they are all telling me the same problem. | ||
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K)Vincent
Belarus29 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16021 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 18 2015 23:34 K)Vincent wrote: yes I remember the "OP" swarm hosts... that years protoss won 3 gsl in a row, rotfl... also the only foreign vicotries against Code S were in PvZ (Harstem>Solar, Verd>Sacsri, Ptitdrogo>Rogue and so on...), tell me another match up where, in lasts 3 years of hots, a foreign figured out to defeat a code S? I will tell you, only snute did but it was an unique event cause in that tournament a protoss won in a PvP final... I'm not saying that Protoss is fine in LOTV but really you should not cry after only one week I haven't wrote that SH were OP, I disagreed with 3 years of free wins when the eternal kong soO won a tournament and he had to win against herO. Who is one of the best Protoss players and he's really good with stalkers... I don't know why he had the blink icon in SSL when he couldn't get the free win against soO... hmmm... I am not crying. I just think that you are writing BS. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16021 Posts
On November 18 2015 23:13 K)Vincent wrote: I just think that after 3 years of blinkstalker+sentry a-move into freewin protoss now needs more than 1 week to figure out how to win vs zerg. ...and please don't tell me that PvZ wasn't broken in HoTS how was pvz broken? please show some data. And I can't take someone serious who says blink-sentry amove is freewin just like I can't take someone serious who says mass roach amove is freewin. | ||
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
On November 18 2015 23:13 K)Vincent wrote: I just think that after 3 years of blinkstalker+sentry a-move into freewin protoss now needs more than 1 week to figure out how to win vs zerg. ...and please don't tell me that PvZ wasn't broken in HoTS 3 years of blink stalker sentry? I don't know how time works where you are from, but blink + sentry hasn't been the meta for very long. I don't have to tell you that PvZ wasn't broken. The stats of pro-games should be enough to tell you that. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
But I always was for Ravagers at lair and Hydras at hatch (hydra upgrade is still lair tech). Edit: Btw from what I've watched on Korean streams the game looks pretty balanced right now and I just think we need at least 4 weeks of pros grinding games and a few tournaments, before any balance tweeks are made. KR ladder looks fine as well. http://nios.kr/sc2/kr/1v1/wol/grandmaster/ (#YearofHarstem) | ||
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
On November 18 2015 23:34 K)Vincent wrote: yes I remember the "OP" swarm hosts... that years protoss won 3 gsl in a row, rotfl... also the only foreign vicotries against Code S were in PvZ (Harstem>Solar, Verd>Sacsri, Ptitdrogo>Rogue and so on...), tell me another match up where, in lasts 3 years of hots, a foreign figured out to defeat a code S? I will tell you, only snute did but it was an unique event cause in that tournament a protoss won in a PvP final... I'm not saying that Protoss is fine in LOTV but really you should not cry after only one week No one claimed HS to be OP. You however claimed blink and sentry was meta for 3 years, and that it was broken, when that is simply not the case. It might have been hard for you to deal with, but that really doesn't account for balance of the game. I'm very sorry to burst your bubble. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
Ravagers are not armored???? FUCK. I think PvT favors T a bit but they're just having trouble with early game at the moment. Once they figure out how to hold our harass shenanigans they'll get better. But that MU is probably okay to play out for a little. Z is way too strong, IMO. Ravager's ability is too oppressive, especially against Terran. Lurker range is too high. Parasitic bomb should not stack and it should be easier to tell which unit is affected (possibly in the UI at the bottom?) so that you can micro it away. My biggest issue with Z honestly is how strong the Ultralisk is. Nothing kills it fast enough. In late game scenarios where you trade army and they just make 10 ultras there is nothing you can do short of having 10 robos all ready to start pumping Immortals... | ||
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K)Vincent
Belarus29 Posts
so if it tooks 2 years for the protoss nerf, why should you whine after only 1 week? | ||
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
On November 18 2015 23:51 K)Vincent wrote: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments : 26 tournaments won by P, 13 by Z, 14 by T in last 2 years of HoTS, is this balanced? so if it tooks 2 years for the protoss nerf, why should you whine after only 1 week? Yes if more top players play Protoss it could be. And wanting the game not to be balanced, because you think it used to be imbalanced is crazy. You're still not dealing with what we are saying about what you actually said... And I'm guessing you can't. Enough hijack of thread because of one man's sick views on justice in gaming. | ||
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Crushgroove
United States793 Posts
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K)Vincent
Belarus29 Posts
i think this is pretty clear | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
They are bigger roaches ffs. | ||
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
On November 19 2015 00:03 K)Vincent wrote: rotfl I just said don't whine after 1 week giving you statistics that shows how protoss were the strongest race in hots i think this is pretty clear Still not arguing to the point. You should go into politics. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On November 18 2015 23:51 K)Vincent wrote: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments : 26 tournaments won by P, 13 by Z, 14 by T in last 2 years of HoTS, is this balanced? so if it tooks 2 years for the protoss nerf, why should you whine after only 1 week? herO and sOs won 10 of those. | ||
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
On November 19 2015 00:05 Salteador Neo wrote: Can't believe ravagers are not armored lol, never noticed before this thread. They are bigger roaches ffs. Might be why some have gone back to phoenix openers. | ||
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