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Hi guys.
I have been reading some great content on the forums/reddit and it appears a lot of people are worried about whether Protoss is too weak and/or Zerg is too strong.
While I personally do believe Protoss might be slightly too weak, I would argue that the case of PvZ only requires a very narrow spectrum of perspective and problemsolving in order to see the matchup play out better. I would think it is a mistake to blame things from Zerg from all game stages. (early/mid/lategame)
For now I think Protoss versus Terran requires more testing before an official balance determination can be made.
I believe Protoss has problems securing a third base while Zerg has a relatively easy time going "3-Hatch-before-Pool." Yet by the sound of it, people are also very concerned with the strength of Ultralisk, Lurker and Viper Parasitic Bomb. I think there are reasons to let these unit stay strong to help Zerg with the relatively weak lategame they had in HotS PvZ.
I think we need to take a step back here and focus on the aspect of the game that shows problems first; this will of course be the earlygame and mostly the Protoss ability to take a 3rd base.
The reason, I believe, Protoss not only can not go Nexus-first (like Zerg can Hatch-first safely) but also needs several gateway units or 1-2 tech units to defend a 3rd is because of the Ravager strength. I do believe it is fine that Protoss can not go Nexus-first, but Protoss should be able to go for a 3rd base without preparing immensely for Ravager timings or other timings and thus fall too far behind.
In Heart of the Swarm Protoss would use sim-city at the 3rd base to defend against Speedlings and/or Roach timings. In Legacy of the Void, however, Pylons are very threatened by the damage of Corrosive Bile. This does not only threaten the main Protoss defence, Photon Overcharge, but also limits the Protoss ability to wall off and get warpgates in time to warp in reinforcements for defence. Also Forcefields used to be a huge help in defending in HotS, this is no longer a tool.
I think the ONLY main change with respect to PvZ that should happen now is a Ravager nerf. A nerf that still allows them to be dangerous, but slightly weaker in offensive situations. There are several ways to do this.
1. Decrease the damage from Corrosive Bile to structures to 30 or 20.
This is my personal favourite. This will still allow Ravagers to use splash damage to do some reasonable damage to buildings and make the unit feel more like a support unit rather than a siege unit. They will still do 60 damage to air and ground units.
2. Make the tech requirement for Ravager Morph require lair.
The problem here is that Ravagers may / may not be required to defend certain forcefield strategies. Still it is worth a try.
3. Increase the morph time of Ravagers
I think this is a solution too, but might make reactionary play for Zerg a bit too hard, including the ability to defend sudden spontaenous timings.
4. Make Ravager armored.
I think the problem with armored Ravagers is that they may become too countered in defensive situations to say like Immortal or Adept/Voidray allin. Same could apply in TvZ.
If Ravagers were to receive a nerf, ALL other aspects of the Zerg matchup would be affected to. Protoss will be able to take a 3rd more safely, thus able to deal with Mutalisk/Ultralisk/Lurkers better. I sincerely think we should limit our perspective to the earlygame and do a relatively small and simple nerf to overall improve the entire spectrum of gameplay in the Zerg matchup, mostly versus Protoss.
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Not entirely sure about PvT but as a Z, I think ZvP is pretty terrible for Toss yeah and I know a lot of other Zergs agree. Not entirely sure how I feel about nerfing Ravagers in a specific way given how almost essential (imo) I think they are against Terran and that matchup coming across as even to me.
I think the only realistic way Toss wins in a macro is if they somehow get to Skytoss. It's weird, 2 base all ins as a toss is awk and whether or not a Toss gets a third usually dictates who won or not.
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Wait Ravegers don't require Lair/ Arent Armored???
Damn, I should have paid more attention during beta 
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It's not that Protoss is too weak. It's that Ravager is too strong.
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Russian Federation66 Posts
queen 175hp, 1 armor = unarmored, ravager 120hp, 1 armor = unarmored, viking 125 hp, 0 armor = armored. Dont know how they do it.
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I'm more pro buff then pro nerf, if a race is even in one match (P being even vs. T) and underpowered in another (P vs. Z) and if Zerg is also balanced against Terran, it makes alot more sense to buff Protoss then to nerf Zerg.
But if a nerf truly were needed, I think the first one is the best way to go, something mild, this is the very beginning and everything is OP to everyone when nobody is used to dealing with it, how many "omfg this unit/match up broken" threads do we see and then 6 months later the strategy was figured out and is then easily defended.
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I think its also the map pool. Some of the current ladder maps seem grossly zerg favored.
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On November 18 2015 14:49 Jaaaaasper wrote:
I think its also the map pool. Some of the current ladder maps seem grossly zerg favored.
I agree with this. I feel like this map pool is god awful for Protoss. Lots of huge ramps/wide open 3rd's make it hard for Protoss to secure 3 base.
I wish Blizzard had some better maps (I like them, but I am zerg  ) so we could truly know. I think a lot of Protosses aren't doing the best strategies either as they try to figure it out.
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4713 Posts
I'm appalled that after so many years Blizzard still hasn't learned that huge wide open ramps are horrible for natural expansions and quite bad for other expansions too.
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Isnt it a little early to complain about who is weak and who is strong until the pros work it out first. I think it is best to wait for a few tournaments to get played first and as some of you have mentioned the maps may need looking at
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I think it has to do mostly with ridiculous maps as well, but Protoss really got the short stick with the economy changes too.
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Watch Drogo's stream, it is very easy to defend ling/ravager timing.
Put pylons in the front of your third, your army behind, when the zerg attack use many overcharge on pylons that are not attacked.
If the zerg commit you will destroy it because you have like 5 photon overcharge and your army to defend.
If the zerg waits the end of photon overcharge then you have enough time to get your disruptors and now you can destroy the zerg army easily.
You can also go for stargate opening, 1-2 oracles to defend, scout the push and kill some ravagers, then 1 voidray will clean the zerg army because the zerg player has nothing to deal with the voidray.
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i'll blame the maps too, all of the current maps (and blizzard maps in general) are extremely wide open, with almost no chokes except for the center of ulrena.
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On November 18 2015 18:22 FireCake wrote:
Watch Drogo's stream, it is very easy to defend ling/ravager timing.
Put pylons in the front of your third, your army behind, when the zerg attack use many overcharge on pylons that are not attacked.
If the zerg commit you will destroy it because you have like 5 photon overcharge and your army to defend.
If the zerg waits the end of photon overcharge then you have enough time to get your disruptors and now you can destroy the zerg army easily.
You can also go for stargate opening, 1-2 oracles to defend, scout the push and kill some ravagers, then 1 voidray will clean the zerg army because the zerg player has nothing to deal with the voidray.
If you photon overcharge 5 pylons, it will take 11 seconds then zerg can attack again. I do not think you can get enough disruptor by 5:30 to defend with that. At best you can have one, but then you have very few units.
Even if you somehow manage to make 5+ pylons at the 3rd base that speedlings will not beforehand deny, it will delay gateways and all the pylons will be fully exposed. If you clump them it will be better versus lings but much worse versus ravagers.
Also zerg is not forced to dive, he can simply trade with the Ravagers outside of photon overcharge range. Protoss will not have units that can chase by then simply because his army value will be photon overcharge by then.
Voidrays do not do that much damage (Ravagers are not armored) and it is quite limited what oracles can do as they will not have energy to kill 8-9 ravagers from a 3 base ravager 45 drone timing.
It is possible to make enough units from gateways or immortals but it will likely delay the third base for too long (whereas 3 hatch before pool is relatively free) and even then its not just "easy" to defend it. A lategame from that perspective versus non-zerg timings will be problematic.
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Denmark6989 Posts
On November 18 2015 17:46 Destructicon wrote:
I'm appalled that after so many years Blizzard still hasn't learned that huge wide open ramps are horrible for natural expansions and quite bad for other expansions too.
The worst part of it is, that they picked this map pool for the first season of Legacy. It's so obvious that this map pool should be as standard and boring as possible, to figure out, what needs to be fixed. What needs to be buffed and nerfed.
Picking such a non-standard map pool with:
Gold bases en masse
Two ramps into your natural
Big fat ramps that can't be blocked for shit
Is such a massive mistake, that I didn't think it was possible. I actually thought the map pool was a joke at first. But no.
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On November 18 2015 18:36 TheoMikkelsen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 18:22 FireCake wrote:
Watch Drogo's stream, it is very easy to defend ling/ravager timing.
Put pylons in the front of your third, your army behind, when the zerg attack use many overcharge on pylons that are not attacked.
If the zerg commit you will destroy it because you have like 5 photon overcharge and your army to defend.
If the zerg waits the end of photon overcharge then you have enough time to get your disruptors and now you can destroy the zerg army easily.
You can also go for stargate opening, 1-2 oracles to defend, scout the push and kill some ravagers, then 1 voidray will clean the zerg army because the zerg player has nothing to deal with the voidray. If you photon overcharge 5 pylons, it will take 11 seconds then zerg can attack again. I do not think you can get enough disruptor by 5:30 to defend with that. At best you can have one, but then you have very few units. Even if you somehow manage to make 5+ pylons at the 3rd base that speedlings will not beforehand deny, it will delay gateways and all the pylons will be fully exposed. If you clump them it will be better versus lings but much worse versus ravagers. Also zerg is not forced to dive, he can simply trade with the Ravagers outside of photon overcharge range. Protoss will not have units that can chase by then simply because his army value will be photon overcharge by then. Voidrays do not do that much damage (Ravagers are not armored) and it is quite limited what oracles can do as they will not have energy to kill 8-9 ravagers from a 3 base ravager 45 drone timing. It is possible to make enough units from gateways or immortals but it will likely delay the third base for too long (whereas 3 hatch before pool is relatively free) and even then its not just "easy" to defend it. A lategame from that perspective versus non-zerg timings will be problematic.
-You must not waste photon overcharge, you need to wait that the zerg engage and then use it, if the zerg retreats he will lose many units. You should do something like using 1 photon overcharge when the zerg is in front of your bases then if he engages uses 2-3-4 more photon overcharge.
-You don't want your pylon to be clump even against lings. The goal is not to make a perfect wall so units can't reach your army, the goal is to slow the opponent army with your buildings.
-If the zerg simply destroy some pylons and don't commit it is very good for you because he delayed his whole tech (ravager are gas expensive) and probably his economy. It gives you enough time to get a good army then expand/attack
-Voidrays are very helpful to defend against ravagers but you obviously can't rely only on this unit. Voidrays force the zerg player to either commit immediatly to an attack and thus lose his whole army because you have 5+ photon overcharge waiting for him, or retreat.
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4713 Posts
On November 18 2015 22:30 Mozdk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 17:46 Destructicon wrote:
I'm appalled that after so many years Blizzard still hasn't learned that huge wide open ramps are horrible for natural expansions and quite bad for other expansions too. The worst part of it is, that they picked this map pool for the first season of Legacy. It's so obvious that this map pool should be as standard and boring as possible, to figure out, what needs to be fixed. What needs to be buffed and nerfed. Picking such a non-standard map pool with: Gold bases en masse Two ramps into your natural Big fat ramps that can't be blocked for shit Is such a massive mistake, that I didn't think it was possible. I actually thought the map pool was a joke at first. But no.
Yeah I agree, its the exact same issue as WoL, but at least in Wings we didn't know any better. I hope KeSPA just give Blizzard the finger and use their own maps for SPL, S2SL and GSL.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 18 2015 22:30 Mozdk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 17:46 Destructicon wrote:
I'm appalled that after so many years Blizzard still hasn't learned that huge wide open ramps are horrible for natural expansions and quite bad for other expansions too. The worst part of it is, that they picked this map pool for the first season of Legacy. It's so obvious that this map pool should be as standard and boring as possible, to figure out, what needs to be fixed. What needs to be buffed and nerfed. Picking such a non-standard map pool with: Gold bases en masse Two ramps into your natural Big fat ramps that can't be blocked for shit Is such a massive mistake, that I didn't think it was possible. I actually thought the map pool was a joke at first. But no.
Thanks to the changes in economy and units, the standard doesn't exist anymore and has to be established. Though some things haven't changed(e.g. agoraphobia of Protoss(fear of open spaces  )
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Denmark6989 Posts
On November 18 2015 22:54 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 22:30 Mozdk wrote:On November 18 2015 17:46 Destructicon wrote:
I'm appalled that after so many years Blizzard still hasn't learned that huge wide open ramps are horrible for natural expansions and quite bad for other expansions too. The worst part of it is, that they picked this map pool for the first season of Legacy. It's so obvious that this map pool should be as standard and boring as possible, to figure out, what needs to be fixed. What needs to be buffed and nerfed. Picking such a non-standard map pool with: Gold bases en masse Two ramps into your natural Big fat ramps that can't be blocked for shit Is such a massive mistake, that I didn't think it was possible. I actually thought the map pool was a joke at first. But no. Thanks to the changes in economy and units, the standard doesn't exist anymore and has to be established. Though some things haven't changed(e.g. agoraphobia of Protoss(fear of open spaces )
Well lings weren't removed, and gold still favours zerg, so these things will not become standard. Not without buffing all protoss units. Especially workers 
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David Kim killed Protoss in LotV
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I just think that after 3 years of blinkstalker+sentry a-move into freewin protoss now needs more than 1 week to figure out how to win vs zerg.
...and please don't tell me that PvZ wasn't broken in HoTS
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 18 2015 22:57 Mozdk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 22:54 deacon.frost wrote:On November 18 2015 22:30 Mozdk wrote:On November 18 2015 17:46 Destructicon wrote:
I'm appalled that after so many years Blizzard still hasn't learned that huge wide open ramps are horrible for natural expansions and quite bad for other expansions too. The worst part of it is, that they picked this map pool for the first season of Legacy. It's so obvious that this map pool should be as standard and boring as possible, to figure out, what needs to be fixed. What needs to be buffed and nerfed. Picking such a non-standard map pool with: Gold bases en masse Two ramps into your natural Big fat ramps that can't be blocked for shit Is such a massive mistake, that I didn't think it was possible. I actually thought the map pool was a joke at first. But no. Thanks to the changes in economy and units, the standard doesn't exist anymore and has to be established. Though some things haven't changed(e.g. agoraphobia of Protoss(fear of open spaces ) Well lings weren't removed, and gold still favours zerg, so these things will not become standard. Not without buffing all protoss units. Especially workers
That was the note in the end, that some things haven't changed I partially agree.
On November 18 2015 23:13 K)Vincent wrote:
I just think that after 3 years of blinkstalker+sentry a-move into freewin protoss now needs more than 1 week to figure out how to win vs zerg.
...and please don't tell me that PvZ wasn't broken in HoTS
So the nerf of Swarmhosts happened April 2015 and you tell me the PvZ meta for 3 years was blinkstalker sentry a-move? Are you trolling or what? Don't you remember what PvZ looked like before the nerf?
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Patch_2.1.9#Balance_Update
After the patch KeSPA cup was literally dominated by Zerg and Terran players, in the finals were 2 Zergs.
And we have, for example, DH Stockholm, where 2 of the best Protosses(Rain, sOs) were not in the finals.
And we have plenty of second places across the 2015. It doesn't look like free win to me...
Edit> Plenty of second places for Zerg.
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On November 18 2015 22:37 FireCake wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 18:36 TheoMikkelsen wrote:On November 18 2015 18:22 FireCake wrote:
Watch Drogo's stream, it is very easy to defend ling/ravager timing.
Put pylons in the front of your third, your army behind, when the zerg attack use many overcharge on pylons that are not attacked.
If the zerg commit you will destroy it because you have like 5 photon overcharge and your army to defend.
If the zerg waits the end of photon overcharge then you have enough time to get your disruptors and now you can destroy the zerg army easily.
You can also go for stargate opening, 1-2 oracles to defend, scout the push and kill some ravagers, then 1 voidray will clean the zerg army because the zerg player has nothing to deal with the voidray. If you photon overcharge 5 pylons, it will take 11 seconds then zerg can attack again. I do not think you can get enough disruptor by 5:30 to defend with that. At best you can have one, but then you have very few units. Even if you somehow manage to make 5+ pylons at the 3rd base that speedlings will not beforehand deny, it will delay gateways and all the pylons will be fully exposed. If you clump them it will be better versus lings but much worse versus ravagers. Also zerg is not forced to dive, he can simply trade with the Ravagers outside of photon overcharge range. Protoss will not have units that can chase by then simply because his army value will be photon overcharge by then. Voidrays do not do that much damage (Ravagers are not armored) and it is quite limited what oracles can do as they will not have energy to kill 8-9 ravagers from a 3 base ravager 45 drone timing. It is possible to make enough units from gateways or immortals but it will likely delay the third base for too long (whereas 3 hatch before pool is relatively free) and even then its not just "easy" to defend it. A lategame from that perspective versus non-zerg timings will be problematic. -You must not waste photon overcharge, you need to wait that the zerg engage and then use it, if the zerg retreats he will lose many units. You should do something like using 1 photon overcharge when the zerg is in front of your bases then if he engages uses 2-3-4 more photon overcharge. -You don't want your pylon to be clump even against lings. The goal is not to make a perfect wall so units can't reach your army, the goal is to slow the opponent army with your buildings. -If the zerg simply destroy some pylons and don't commit it is very good for you because he delayed his whole tech (ravager are gas expensive) and probably his economy. It gives you enough time to get a good army then expand/attack -Voidrays are very helpful to defend against ravagers but you obviously can't rely only on this unit. Voidrays force the zerg player to either commit immediatly to an attack and thus lose his whole army because you have 5+ photon overcharge waiting for him, or retreat.
How do you mean not waste photon overcharge? Ravagers outrange both cannons and pylons, so I am not 100% sure what you mean? I might be mistaken here, but usually zerg just engages with Ravagers and one-shots 1-2-3 pylons/cannons every 7 second using splash.
Yeah I am splitting my pylons but if there are 8-9 ravagers and 30 lings by 5:30 versus 2-4 adepts, a tech unit (immotal,oracle,voidray) and 4-5 pylons + MSC and nothing else, stopping this attack is very, very hard, if not impossible. Protoss literally has to delay his 3rd base and all the pylons required to defend in order to get infrastructure to make units, cuz zerg can simply kill 2 pylons every 7 second untill he can just engage and win.
Like the thing is that protoss needs to make a ton of pylons and 80% of his DPS will be pylons, but if they dont hit ravagers, it wont take long before zerg will have overhwhelming numbers.
I have not watched petitdrogos stream, but they are all telling me the same problem.
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yes I remember the "OP" swarm hosts... that years protoss won 3 gsl in a row, rotfl... also the only foreign vicotries against Code S were in PvZ (Harstem>Solar, Verd>Sacsri, Ptitdrogo>Rogue and so on...), tell me another match up where, in lasts 3 years of hots, a foreign figured out to defeat a code S? I will tell you, only snute did but it was an unique event cause in that tournament a protoss won in a PvP final... I'm not saying that Protoss is fine in LOTV but really you should not cry after only one week
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The warpgate nerf was also huge because it severely reduces protoss ability to pressure in the early game and weakens their general mapcontrol in the lategame.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 18 2015 23:34 K)Vincent wrote:
yes I remember the "OP" swarm hosts... that years protoss won 3 gsl in a row, rotfl... also the only foreign vicotries against Code S were in PvZ (Harstem>Solar, Verd>Sacsri, Ptitdrogo>Rogue and so on...), tell me another match up where, in lasts 3 years of hots, a foreign figured out to defeat a code S? I will tell you, only snute did but it was an unique event cause in that tournament a protoss won in a PvP final... I'm not saying that Protoss is fine in LOTV but really you should not cry after only one week
I haven't wrote that SH were OP, I disagreed with 3 years of free wins when the eternal kong soO won a tournament and he had to win against herO. Who is one of the best Protoss players and he's really good with stalkers... I don't know why he had the blink icon in SSL when he couldn't get the free win against soO... hmmm...
I am not crying. I just think that you are writing BS.
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On November 18 2015 23:13 K)Vincent wrote:
I just think that after 3 years of blinkstalker+sentry a-move into freewin protoss now needs more than 1 week to figure out how to win vs zerg.
...and please don't tell me that PvZ wasn't broken in HoTS
how was pvz broken? please show some data.
And I can't take someone serious who says blink-sentry amove is freewin just like I can't take someone serious who says mass roach amove is freewin.
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Denmark6989 Posts
On November 18 2015 23:13 K)Vincent wrote:
I just think that after 3 years of blinkstalker+sentry a-move into freewin protoss now needs more than 1 week to figure out how to win vs zerg.
...and please don't tell me that PvZ wasn't broken in HoTS
3 years of blink stalker sentry? I don't know how time works where you are from, but blink + sentry hasn't been the meta for very long.
I don't have to tell you that PvZ wasn't broken. The stats of pro-games should be enough to tell you that.
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I think it's way too early to say and the maps suck.
But I always was for Ravagers at lair and Hydras at hatch (hydra upgrade is still lair tech).
Edit: Btw from what I've watched on Korean streams the game looks pretty balanced right now and I just think we need at least 4 weeks of pros grinding games and a few tournaments, before any balance tweeks are made.
KR ladder looks fine as well. http://nios.kr/sc2/kr/1v1/wol/grandmaster/ (#YearofHarstem)
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Denmark6989 Posts
On November 18 2015 23:34 K)Vincent wrote:
yes I remember the "OP" swarm hosts... that years protoss won 3 gsl in a row, rotfl... also the only foreign vicotries against Code S were in PvZ (Harstem>Solar, Verd>Sacsri, Ptitdrogo>Rogue and so on...), tell me another match up where, in lasts 3 years of hots, a foreign figured out to defeat a code S? I will tell you, only snute did but it was an unique event cause in that tournament a protoss won in a PvP final... I'm not saying that Protoss is fine in LOTV but really you should not cry after only one week
No one claimed HS to be OP. You however claimed blink and sentry was meta for 3 years, and that it was broken, when that is simply not the case.
It might have been hard for you to deal with, but that really doesn't account for balance of the game. I'm very sorry to burst your bubble.
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HOOOOOOOOLLLLLDDDDD ONNNNNNN...
Ravagers are not armored????
FUCK.
I think PvT favors T a bit but they're just having trouble with early game at the moment. Once they figure out how to hold our harass shenanigans they'll get better. But that MU is probably okay to play out for a little.
Z is way too strong, IMO. Ravager's ability is too oppressive, especially against Terran. Lurker range is too high. Parasitic bomb should not stack and it should be easier to tell which unit is affected (possibly in the UI at the bottom?) so that you can micro it away.
My biggest issue with Z honestly is how strong the Ultralisk is. Nothing kills it fast enough.
In late game scenarios where you trade army and they just make 10 ultras there is nothing you can do short of having 10 robos all ready to start pumping Immortals...
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Denmark6989 Posts
Yes if more top players play Protoss it could be.
And wanting the game not to be balanced, because you think it used to be imbalanced is crazy.
You're still not dealing with what we are saying about what you actually said... And I'm guessing you can't.
Enough hijack of thread because of one man's sick views on justice in gaming.
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If you watch what Korean P is doing right now, using Stasis trap and baiting attacks being just one example, P is finding ways to kill it at a high level. Just gotta wait for lesser P to learn and it will seem less imba I believe. Likely there will need to be a minor tweak to something as well, but lets put down the Nerf-torch and the pitchforks for a bit please. The game has been out for a week. Suck it up and figure it out for a while.
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rotfl I just said don't whine after 1 week giving you statistics that shows how protoss were the strongest race in hots
i think this is pretty clear
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Can't believe ravagers are not armored lol, never noticed before this thread.
They are bigger roaches ffs.
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Denmark6989 Posts
On November 19 2015 00:03 K)Vincent wrote:
rotfl I just said don't whine after 1 week giving you statistics that shows how protoss were the strongest race in hots
i think this is pretty clear
Still not arguing to the point. You should go into politics.
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herO and sOs won 10 of those.
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Denmark6989 Posts
On November 19 2015 00:05 Salteador Neo wrote:
Can't believe ravagers are not armored lol, never noticed before this thread.
They are bigger roaches ffs.
Might be why some have gone back to phoenix openers.
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On November 19 2015 00:03 Crushgroove wrote:
If you watch what Korean P is doing right now, using Stasis trap and baiting attacks being just one example, P is finding ways to kill it at a high level. Just gotta wait for lesser P to learn and it will seem less imba I believe. Likely there will need to be a minor tweak to something as well, but lets put down the Nerf-torch and the pitchforks for a bit please. The game has been out for a week. Suck it up and figure it out for a while.
Game's been in its current form for a lot more than a week.
My platinum level opponents are setting off my stasis wards with single Zerglings... I don't think they'll be effective for long...
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Russian Federation66 Posts
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On November 19 2015 00:06 DinoMight wrote:herO and sOs won 10 of those.
also Life and Innovation won 50%+ of those... sorry you failed
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On November 19 2015 00:14 K)Vincent wrote:also Life and Innovation won 50%+ of those... sorry you failed
You can't just look at tournament winners and expect 33% across the board. That would be perfectly evenly distributed but even in a fully bald game there is a high chance that the results are skewed one way or another.
You could get into statistics and confidence intervals etc. but the results that you're indicating are pretty acceptable IMO especially when you look one step back at the finalists (way more even).
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p=/=z, don't think wasnt fine cause 90% of pvz finals was in p favor... terran sucked vs both z/p last year I know, pretty sure they were the weakest race but this doesnt means pvz was balanced sorry
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On November 19 2015 00:18 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2015 00:14 K)Vincent wrote:On November 19 2015 00:06 DinoMight wrote:herO and sOs won 10 of those. also Life and Innovation won 50%+ of those... sorry you failed You can't just look at tournament winners and expect 33% across the board. That would be perfectly evenly distributed but even in a fully bald game there is a high chance that the results are skewed one way or another. You could get into statistics and confidence intervals etc. but the results that you're indicating are pretty acceptable IMO especially when you look one step back at the finalists (way more even).
mathematically protoss won +100% tournaments than other 2 races... I don't call this a slightly difference
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Italy12246 Posts
Closing this thread, it's mostly balance whining with hardly any constructive discussion.
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EPT
