EPTUkraine Crisis - Page 482
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marigoldran
219 Posts
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PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
On May 04 2014 17:13 marigoldran wrote: Ukraine's effectively at war against Russian special op soldiers. The question is how big will this spread and whether Russia will invade. sigh | ||
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Mc
332 Posts
On May 04 2014 16:59 PaleMan wrote: i was in suburbs for 3 days, and wasn't following the thread but i'm pretty sure the likes of Ghan already stated that anti-maidan activists in Odessa burned themselves, am i right? video of one of the leaders of pro-maidan activists shooting at the burning building here is the same man asking police officer to let his guys to do "their work" That guy clearly seems to be a police officer. It's clear that molotov cocktails were being thrown from both sides. The fire at the entrance was most likely started by pro-maidan protestors throwing cocktails at the anti-maidan. A separate fire appears to have happened internally on the 2nd floor. This video does a good job showing the situation at the union building : link. Some notable events from the video: 0:00 - 0:11 pro-Russia protestors retreating into building 0:13 - 1:29 pro-maidan gathering outside and setting fire to the pro-Russian tents 1:30 - 1:38 pro-maidan in *unison*, suddenly all start running away at the exact same moment. I don't know what could cause all of these people to retreat so suddenly, but gun-fire from the building seems like a likely candidate. 1:40 - onward, lot's of smoke, some molotov cocktails being thrown into the building. 2:00 - what seems like an explosion that eminates from inside building. There are other videos clearly showing pro-Russian protestors with molotov cocktails inside the building. do you need a link...? this is a pretty reasonable statement and there *are* videos of this It could have been either side that happened to throw the particular molotov cocktails that started the fire and it's probably impossible to determin. As to the pro-maidan consisting of mostly murderous fascists (as you appear to believe), here is a video of the people outside (probably pro-maidan) organizing a rescue of pro-Russians burning in the building. Jump to 12 minutes. http://bambuser.com/v/4585457 | ||
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PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
On May 04 2014 06:11 zeo wrote: This is what Iryna Farion, a member of the current verhovna rada in Kiev had to say last night after she found out about the deaths of 38 people: English (google translate): https://www.facebook.com/IrynaFarion/posts/779547015391702?fref=nf edit: apparently she is a People's Deputy in the Verkhovna Rada Farion is knows as crazy ass nazi bitch Here is the video she visits some kindergarden: Basically she talks to kids how bad is to have russian name, and if someone has one she/he must change it one example; Farion: whats your name Little girl: Alenka Farion: if your name is Alenka you should pack your stuff and go to Moscow ------------- just imagine american congressman while visiting kindergarden finds a kid named Jose and tells him to go to Mexico -------------- but we all know (thanks to westren media) there is no nazis in Ukraine, only "peaceful protesters" | ||
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sgtnoobkilla
Australia249 Posts
On May 04 2014 17:13 marigoldran wrote: Ukraine's effectively at war against Russian special op soldiers. The question is how big will this spread and whether Russia will invade. They aren't at war with Russia. It's the same with saying that CIA agents are operating amongst the pro-Maidan ranks; until proven it's speculation. If anything Putin's abandoned the separatists instead. | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
Personally I'm glad the Kiev government is finally standing up for itself. In a straight fight they'll beat the insurgents, unless Putin chooses to invade... except that if Putin invades he'll pay a hell of a price for it. The Stalinists are trying to rape Ukraine again. If Putin calls the Kiev government Nazis, then Ukrainians should call Putin a Stalinist. What goes around, comes around. | ||
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Roman666
Poland1440 Posts
On May 04 2014 18:56 marigoldran wrote: Pffffft. Look at what happened in Crimea. That was a Russian special operation. No question. This is the same. Personally I'm glad the Kiev government is finally standing up for itself. In a straight fight they'll beat the insurgents, unless Putin chooses to invade... except that if Putin invades he'll pay a hell of a price for it. If the insurgents are Russian Spetsnaz ops as you claim, 50 of such can withstand assault of entire battalion of regular army. Not to even mention that urban warfare makes it even easier for them. So again, if what you claim about involvment of Russian Spetsnaz ops is true, Kiev will not be able to beat the insurgents easily, because by no means there will be no straight fight. | ||
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sgtnoobkilla
Australia249 Posts
On May 04 2014 18:56 marigoldran wrote: Pffffft. Look at what happened in Crimea. That was a Russian special operation. This is the same. Plenty of countries called out on Russia that they were clearly involved in Crimea (apart from the obvious differences in gear, the tactics and units involved stood out clearly). The same can't be said for the rest of eastern Ukraine. If Russian units were involved, the Ukrainian military would have stood no chance in being able to surround Slavyansk, retake Kramatorsk or Mariupol as quickly as they did. The separatists at this point are simply too disorganised and under-supplied to fight the government without outside help. | ||
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Mc
332 Posts
All you showed with that post is that 1 of 450 parliamentarians is an extreme russo-phobe and seems to hate Russians. Good job. According to wikipedia 37 seats belong the Svoboda party. So it could be said that around 10% of Ukrainian parliament is composed of ultra-nationalists. The current *transition* government has a disproportionate % of ultra-nationalists. Is anyone claiming that there are no ultra-nationalists in Ukraine? no. Is anyone claiming that the disproportionate amount of ultra-nationalist in Ukraine (and it's government) is not an issue? no. As long as Ukrainian's government isn't committing radical racist acts against Russians/minorities, I think the best thing to do is move on to elections so they can have a government which is more representative. Some people, are doing all they can to disrupt these elections, even though it's Ukraine's best chance to move forward. BTW, I don't use the term "nazis" to refer to them, because nazis murdered 6 million Jews. I feel that it's disrespectful to use this term for any nationalist who isn't trying to commit mass-genocide. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On May 04 2014 17:13 marigoldran wrote: Ukraine's effectively at war against Russian special op soldiers. The question is how big will this spread and whether Russia will invade. LOL DUDE!! Hehehe! Please please please tell me you're trolling  I apologize, I couldn't control myself. This is probably the best post in the thread besides the Hitler in Euromaidan protests image post way back. Some ragtag angry guys are certainly Russian Spetsnaz, despite there being ZERO evidence of that and everything proving the opposite case. Besides, if these were Spetsnaz, the Ukrainian army would be retreating already. EDIT: Basically what sgtnoobkilla said. | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
Russian soldiers are involved in this. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On May 04 2014 19:07 marigoldran wrote: Before Crimea? I might be agree with you that it's too early to tell. After Crimea? No way. You have to be deaf and dumb, or a Stalinist stooge to think this. Russian soldiers are involved in this. Okay, I guess you weren't trolling LOL! XD Please show me evidence of how all of these insurgents are Russian Spetsnaz. Please I'm begging you! :D I love how you got so aggravated you're calling me deaf, dumb, and a Stalinist stooge haha! Oh man. "If you don't agree with me, I'm going to insult you." Okay bro. | ||
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Roman666
Poland1440 Posts
On May 04 2014 19:07 marigoldran wrote: Before Crimea? I might be agree with you that it's too early to tell. After Crimea? No way. You have to be deaf and dumb, or a Stalinist stooge to think this. Russian soldiers are involved in this. Of course they are involved, just these are not homogenous units of Spetsnaz, because if they were Donetsk would be a part of Russia by now. Don't get me wrong, I am positive that Russia is meddling in Donbas, however it is incorrect to say that Ukraine is fighting regular units of Spetsnaz. | ||
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Mc
332 Posts
Although it is possible that some Russians special ops did participate directly in the unrest, it is really doubtful given the fact that we have *sooo* much video from the region and not one solid proof linking the armed militias directly to Russia. Russia probably has some contacts with some of the leaders, and some FSB on the ground. They might have supplied some weapons/logistics. Equally likely is Yanukovych (a reallly rich man) supplying the separatists with weapons/logistics. Russia's most significant support is simply the troops on the border, the lieing propaganda, and the aggressive rhetoric that gave the separatists (and some tourists) the hope that Russia will intervene. Russia, is happy to sit back and watch Ukraine unravel into chaos, and from time to time might push some buttons to ensure it stays that way. | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
If there's Russian spec ops soldiers in Ukraine they'll do their best to blend in to the crowd and dress scruffily. And they'll succeed because they're pros. You have to be a fool to think otherwise. If you think you can catch one by looking at internet videos, then you have to be naive or a stooge. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On May 04 2014 19:10 marigoldran wrote: Exactly. As I said, it's a Russian special operation. If there's FSB agents and disguised Spec Ops troops on the ground providing contacts and money, what else can you call it? I like how you took this from "Ukraine is fighting Russian special forces troops" to this. But please, proof please. What are you, some kind of Stalinist stooge?  | ||
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Roman666
Poland1440 Posts
On May 04 2014 19:10 marigoldran wrote: Exactly. As I said, it's a Russian special operation. If there's FSB agents and disguised Spec Ops troops on the ground providing contacts and money, what else can you call it? You said that Ukraine is at war with Russian special forces. It is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? It is different than this post of yours which says about the involvement, which I can agree with. | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
The Russians are actively causing trouble in Ukraine. With FSB agents and special troops. People have died and there's more fighting. If this isn't an undeclared war, then what is? | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
On May 04 2014 19:12 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: I like how you took this from "Ukraine is fighting Russian special forces troops" to this. But please, proof please. What are you, some kind of Stalinist stooge? The proof is Crimea. Before Crimea, I might agree with you. After Crimea? No way. The Russians did this in Crimea. Now they're trying the same in East Ukraine. Putin's basic problem is that if he denies that he's using Spec Ops troops in East Ukraine, HE HAS NO CREDIBILITY because of what happened in Crimea. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On May 04 2014 19:17 marigoldran wrote: The proof is Crimea. Before Crimea, I might agree with you. After Crimea? No way. The Russians did this in Crimea. Now they're trying the same in East Ukraine. Yes it happened in Crimea. But Ukraine isn't fighting in Crimea. They're fighting in East Ukraine. Now please show me where all these Spetsnaz guys are in eastern Ukraine and why there is still a Ukrainian military to speak of. | ||
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