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On May 04 2014 19:05 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2014 17:13 marigoldran wrote:
Ukraine's effectively at war against Russian special op soldiers. The question is how big will this spread and whether Russia will invade. LOL DUDE!! Hehehe! Please please please tell me you're trolling  I apologize, I couldn't control myself. This is probably the best post in the thread besides the Hitler in Euromaidan protests image post way back. Some ragtag angry guys are certainly Russian Spetsnaz, despite there being ZERO evidence of that and everything proving the opposite case. Besides, if these were Spetsnaz, the Ukrainian army would be retreating already. EDIT: Basically what sgtnoobkilla said.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vwuKONO.jpg)
Middle aged pot-belly elite Spetsnaz soldiers with standard issue mismatched uniforms, sticky-taped stock, sticky-taped magazine and leather Walmart shoes. The pride of a military with $87 billion dollars to spend a year.
Isn't it obvious?
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On May 04 2014 20:20 marigoldran wrote:
You're doing a good enough job at trolling that you should be humored. Competence should be rewarded.
To respond to the argument at hand: you can say what you want, but your argument has no credibility because of Crimea. Russia denied using Russian troops in Crimea. And it's very obvious to everyone that he did. Now he denies using troops in East Ukraine. Who would actually believe him?
As I said: even if you are telling the truth, your truth has no credibility.
Your truth has zero basing. I am literally going entirely off of US and British media. Yes, I'm sorry that US and British media supports my position. I am sorry that your entire argument is based off of an entirely absurd extrapolation that has zero basing and zero foundation, and what foundation and basing does exist argues 100% against your claims. Obviously, this is to difficult for your brain to process. Intelligence is lacking these days 
Who would actually believe him?
Apparently all the journalists and observers swarming eastern Ukraine do. All they see are ragtag guys bitching about how Russia doesn't help them at all. No Russian military presence of any kind has been seen, especially not hordes of Spetsnaz like you claim lol. XD
You're doing a good enough job at trolling that you should be humored.
Lol. Okay bro.
On May 04 2014 20:20 SF-Fork wrote:
Hammurabi, stop. You will not get any meaningful answer from this guy. Let's focus on the ukranian crisis again.
Yeah, I was just about done anyways.
On May 04 2014 20:21 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2014 19:05 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On May 04 2014 17:13 marigoldran wrote:
Ukraine's effectively at war against Russian special op soldiers. The question is how big will this spread and whether Russia will invade. LOL DUDE!! Hehehe! Please please please tell me you're trolling I apologize, I couldn't control myself. This is probably the best post in the thread besides the Hitler in Euromaidan protests image post way back. Some ragtag angry guys are certainly Russian Spetsnaz, despite there being ZERO evidence of that and everything proving the opposite case. Besides, if these were Spetsnaz, the Ukrainian army would be retreating already. EDIT: Basically what sgtnoobkilla said. Middle aged pot-belly elite Spetsnaz soldiers with standard issue mismatched uniforms, sticky-taped stock, sticky-taped magazine and leather Walmart shoes. The pride of a military with $87 billion dollars to spend a year. Isn't it obvious?
Not to mention dinosaur-era assault rifles (look like straight up AK-47s / AKMs). The terrifying Russian special forces must be eating a lot of pork and drinking a lot of beer lately.
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
On May 04 2014 20:23 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
Not to mention dinosaur-era assault rifles (look like straight up AK-47s / AKMs). The terrifying Russian special forces must be eating a lot of pork and drinking a lot of beer lately.
they are in Ukraine after all 
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@ zeo To be honest, if I wanted to use Spetsnaz in a covert role, I would select the ones that look the LEAST like Spetsnaz. Do you understand? Somewhat paranoid, but on this issue I think the paranoia is warranted.
@ hammurabi US and British media isn't monolithic. That's why I trust them. Anyone who pretends or talks about it as if it it's monolithic obviously hasn't thought about the issue carefully. The feeling I get from reading the LA times, NY Times and Washington Post is journalists suspect Russian spec ops are involved, but can't say that out loud due to journalistic integrity.
So your argument has some point. But after Crimea, when Russia BLATANTLY used Spec Op troops while BLATANTLY denying it, your argument has no credibility. .
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lol.
I found the argument between Paleman and marigoldran (previous page) very entertaining :p The two most blindly pro-West/pro-Russia posters trading one line arguments about how right they are and how wrong the other side is.
@JudicatorHammurabi
why did you intervene... you could have just let them keep going at it until they solved the issue.
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@ Paleman You've got to be an idiot to believe that covert Spetznaz troops will actually LOOK LIKE Spetznaz troops.
EDIT: I find this highly entertaining too. Glad I can be of service, MC.
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On May 04 2014 20:31 Mc wrote:
lol.
I found the argument between Paleman and marigoldran (previous page) very entertaining :p The two most blindly pro-West/pro-Russia posters trading one line arguments about how right they are and how wrong the other side is.
@JudicatorHammurabi
why did you intervene... you could have just let them keep going at it until they solved the issue.
Perhaps I should have, but I felt a slight need to judicate Don't worry. I'll interrupt no futher. I'm going to sleep now anyways.
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On May 04 2014 20:32 marigoldran wrote:
@ Paleman You've got to be an idiot to believe that covert Spetznaz troops will actually LOOK LIKE Spetznaz troops.
EDIT: I find this highly entertaining too. Glad I can be of service, MC.
You would really send your elite soldiers into action with Korean War era sticky-taped guns? Look at them, one guy doesn't even have a pair of kneepads, only one.
If you had said Afgani war vets were crossing the border on their own... hell even saying FSB is involved would be more believable than military spec-ops.
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If you're doing a covert mission, the LAST thing you want to do is to dress up like some sort of super Spec Op soldier. Does that make sense to you? Or do I have to explain this concept more?
EDIT: Oh. Looks like I do have to explain some more. Look, if I was Putin and I wanted to hide the involvement of Spetznaz, I WOULD send in soldiers with large potbellies carrying antiquated weapons who look like Ukrainian militia-men. It sort of makes sense if you think about it.
EDIT 2: In those pictures that you see of pot-bellied "Ukrainian" militiamen: how many of them are actually Ukrainian. Or a militia-men? How exactly do you tell apart between a Russian and a Ukrainian in a freaking picture? They have potbellies, but so what? I'm pretty sure there are pot-bellied Spetznaz soldiers specifically trained for situations like this.
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On May 04 2014 20:39 marigoldran wrote:
If you're doing a covert mission, the LAST thing you want to do is to dress up like some sort of super Spec Op soldier. Does that make sense to you? Or do I have to explain this concept more?
EDIT: Oh. Looks like I do have to explain some more. Look, if I was Putin and I wanted to hide the involvement of Spetznaz, I WOULD send in soldiers with large potbellies carrying antiquated weapons who look like Ukrainian militia-men. It sort of makes sense if you think about it.
EDIT 2: In those pictures that you see of pot-bellied "Ukrainian" militiamen: how many of them are actually Ukrainian. Or a militia-men? How exactly do you tell apart between a Russian and a Ukrainian in a freaking picture? They have potbellies, but so what? I'm pretty sure there are pot-bellied Spetznaz soldiers specifically trained for situations like this.
Russian army so far ahead of the current meta it's unreal.
By your logic I could just say they are navy seals pretending to be mossad, pretending to be spetznaz, pretending to be ordinary old people, acting like they do not know what they are doing half of the time and doing everything as inefficiently as possible to make it believable.
I'm just waiting for the post that claims Putin is in Kiev bayoneting babies.
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The old "you're being paranoid" argument. I would normally agree with you, but I think when it comes to Russia, Ukraine, and Putin, the paranoia is justified. Most people would agree with me on this.
You do realize that Mossad agents REGULARLY dress up as Palestinians, right? It's really not that hard for a Russian to pretend to be a Ukrainian.
EDIT: Are you claiming that the Russians are somehow NOT ahead of the current meta when it comes to spywork? The basic flaw in your "you're crazy" argument is that when it comes to Russia, my argument actually sounds reasonable.
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On May 04 2014 20:53 marigoldran wrote:
The old "you're being paranoid" argument. I would normally agree with you, but I think when it comes to Russia, Ukraine, and Putin, the paranoia is justified. Most people would agree with me on this.
You do realize that Mossad agents REGULARLY dress up as Palestinians, right? It's really not that hard for a Russian to pretend to be a Ukrainian.
EDIT: Are you claiming that the Russians are somehow NOT ahead of the current meta when it comes to spywork?
So I could just say that all the armed people in eastern Ukraine are actually right sector thugs from Lviv and Kiev and all this is and elaborate plan to justify sanctions against Russia? And I can say this because I don't need proof, Kiev is willing to do anything?
I highly doubt anyone here knows what Russia or NATO are capable of in terms of spying. You would most likely be dead if you knew.
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Straw man. Did I say "all"?
I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of your comment. Try again.
Competence should be rewarded. Incompetence... not rewarded. Too obvious. Given your experience at trolling, I expect you to do better.
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On May 04 2014 21:00 marigoldran wrote:
Straw man. Did I say "all"?
I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of your comment. Try again.
Competence should be rewarded. Incompetence... not rewarded. Too obvious. Given your experience at trolling, I expect you to do better.
Touche, maybe I should have worded differently. But at the end of the day Kiev started arming thugs off the street during their 'mobilization' because the regular army wouldn't listen to them. The forces attacking eastern cities have maybe 10 conscripts to every 1 regular soldier. If the guys defending were really spetznaz, would they really have suffered all those losses compared to the poorly trained but better armed guys in the Maidan militia?
I actually like you, at least you don't twitter spam and whitewash nazi's like some people in this thread.
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The whole point of a draft is to arm people off the streets, correct? Last time I checked Russia did that during WWII. And during Afghanistan too, I think.
You can call it whatever you want, but a draft is... a draft. Everyone did it. Even Russia. EDIT: Are you arguing that because Russian soldiers were drafted therefore they're thugs?
And regarding your second point: if Spetznaz troops are fighting in the front lines, they're doing it wrong. The goal of the Spetznaz isn't to fight the Ukrainian military. That would be stupid. Their job is to stay in the background and encourage "under-armed and poorly trained militia" to do the fighting (and the dying). That way, Russia has a pretext for invasion.
The more casualties that 'Ukrainian militia-men" suffer, the better it is for Russia.
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On May 04 2014 21:12 marigoldran wrote:
The whole point of a draft is to arm people off the streets, correct? Last time I checked Russia did that during WWII. And during Afghanistan too, I think.
You can call it whatever you want, but a draft is... a draft. Everyone did it. Even Russia. EDIT: Are you arguing that because Russian soldiers were drafted therefore they're thugs?
And regarding your second point: if Spetznaz troops are fighting in the front lines, they're doing it wrong. The goal of the Spetznaz isn't to fight the Ukrainian military. That would be stupid. Their job is to stay in the background and encourage "under-armed and poorly trained militia" to do the fighting (and the dying). That way, Russia has a pretext for invasion.
The more casualties that 'Ukrainian militia-men" suffer, the better it is for Russia.
The point I was trying to make was that drafted thugs should be no match for spetznaz, even with sticky-taped weapons.
And anyway, why would they send spetznaz if they arn't going to be doing any fighting? Why not FSB? Why not army logistical personal? The whole point of special forces is to engage, no? I won't post anymore on this subject, it seems to be going around in circles.
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Spetznaz, FSB, whatever. I'm sure there are people who are both. EDIT: This is why I'm calling them Spec Ops. Arguing about this is simply semantics.
But to answer your question: NO. The whole point of special forces (most of the time) is NOT to engage. Their primary job is reconnaissance or spywork. And for the really special troops, the ones that are in Ukraine, their job is to encourage and set the proper political conditions for a possible Russian invasion. If they actually engage in firefights, they've been caught and made a mistake. For example, there's a high chance that shooting those Ukranian helicopters down was a Spetznaz mistake. Some of them got caught in the open by the helicopters and they responded in self-defense.
Once you understand their way of thinking, they're actually very easy to understand.
Their job ISN'T to fight the Ukrainian military. Their job is to provoke the Ukrainian military into making a bloody mistake, thereby giving the ACTUAL Russian military a pretext for invasion. This is something the Russians are always accusing the CIA of doing, so of course they're doing it themselves.
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Thank you! Glad I can be of service. I enjoy teaching and explaining.
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I would repost DrCoopers picture, but not worth the trouble i might get into for it.
I'm just glad there's a "anti-zeo" or "anti-paleman" now. Must be fun for them to experience what people deal with if they try to discuss something with them.
Not that marigold has any points, but i promise you guys, you'll get used to it quick.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/rdogg1026/a-1.gif)
