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On April 22 2014 05:42 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2014 05:35 Greem wrote:On April 22 2014 05:16 Ghanburighan wrote:Kvasnyuk stressed that his movement isn't ready to give up on the idea of Ukraine altogether. "Right now we hope that we can solve our problems ourselves, without help from Moscow," he told me. But what if the government in Kiev doesn't offer quite as much autonomy as the pro-Russians want? "If we don't get federalization," Kvasnyuk told me, "then there won't be any way to preserve the integrity of Ukraine." So, in effect, secession. But what about after that? Would Kvasnyuk want to join Russia? It was here that our conversation took a rather unexpected turn. No, he explained. It would make more sense for the other Russia-oriented parts of Ukraine to join together to form a new country of their own -- a country he referred to as "Novorossiya." His eyes sparkled. "A population of 20 million, with industry, resources." With advantages like that, who needs to become a part of Russia? "By European standards that's already a good-sized country." ... A few days later, on April 17, Russian President Vladimir Putin, no less, suddenly began using the word during his annual televised question-and-answer sessions with the nation. "Under the tsars, this region was called Novorossiya," he said. "These territories were passed on to Ukraine in the 1920s. Why the Soviet government did that, may God judge them." ... Theoretically speaking, then, one can imagine that Russia might be happy to leave Novorossiya on its own (perhaps under the de facto control of some of the Moscow-friendly oligarchs who already control a disproportionate share of eastern Ukrainian industry). In any case, it's not only the gun-toting "little green men" in eastern Ukraine who seem to be keen on the idea. Earlier this week, pro-Russian activists announced the creation of an "Odessa Republic," potentially a first step toward realizing the Novorossiya idea. So far, though, this new entity remains more a creature of the Internet than a political reality. Read the rest on FP*** *** Please do keep using the N word, it makes it easier to see which post(er)s aren't worth reading. Do you even research what you post ? Try to find at least what Durov said about his reasons of selling his VK shares. I believe his statement was expressing the idea that he doesn't want to own anything , and VK shares was last thing that was holding him in this desire, if you don't know him, he got quite a...i dont know a word, a philosophy of life that judges any belongings, in other words he owns no car, no house, nothing, so as i said that was the reaosn, he openly said. And that he sold his shares to his friend( his words, quoting again). Its quite obvious that the ideas of your posts and links stays the same, try looking through a bit more and examining more carefully content. Also try find more info on Durov to confirm that his words are not a result of any threat. A guy who doesn't wanna own anything , have no reason to lie. Phah. I expected this to happen years ago.***
If EuroMaidan was led etc by "nazis", i wonder what these people should be called then.
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On April 22 2014 05:42 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2014 05:35 Greem wrote:On April 22 2014 05:16 Ghanburighan wrote:Kvasnyuk stressed that his movement isn't ready to give up on the idea of Ukraine altogether. "Right now we hope that we can solve our problems ourselves, without help from Moscow," he told me. But what if the government in Kiev doesn't offer quite as much autonomy as the pro-Russians want? "If we don't get federalization," Kvasnyuk told me, "then there won't be any way to preserve the integrity of Ukraine." So, in effect, secession. But what about after that? Would Kvasnyuk want to join Russia? It was here that our conversation took a rather unexpected turn. No, he explained. It would make more sense for the other Russia-oriented parts of Ukraine to join together to form a new country of their own -- a country he referred to as "Novorossiya." His eyes sparkled. "A population of 20 million, with industry, resources." With advantages like that, who needs to become a part of Russia? "By European standards that's already a good-sized country." ... A few days later, on April 17, Russian President Vladimir Putin, no less, suddenly began using the word during his annual televised question-and-answer sessions with the nation. "Under the tsars, this region was called Novorossiya," he said. "These territories were passed on to Ukraine in the 1920s. Why the Soviet government did that, may God judge them." ... Theoretically speaking, then, one can imagine that Russia might be happy to leave Novorossiya on its own (perhaps under the de facto control of some of the Moscow-friendly oligarchs who already control a disproportionate share of eastern Ukrainian industry). In any case, it's not only the gun-toting "little green men" in eastern Ukraine who seem to be keen on the idea. Earlier this week, pro-Russian activists announced the creation of an "Odessa Republic," potentially a first step toward realizing the Novorossiya idea. So far, though, this new entity remains more a creature of the Internet than a political reality. Read the rest on FP*** https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/458337054145773568*** Please do keep using the N word, it makes it easier to see which post(er)s aren't worth reading. Do you even research what you post ? Try to find at least what Durov said about his reasons of selling his VK shares. I believe his statement was expressing the idea that he doesn't want to own anything , and VK shares was last thing that was holding him in this desire, if you don't know him, he got quite a...i dont know a word, a philosophy of life that judges any belongings, in other words he owns no car, no house, nothing, so as i said that was the reaosn, he openly said. And that he sold his shares to his friend( his words, quoting again). Its quite obvious that the ideas of your posts and links stays the same, try looking through a bit more and examining more carefully content. Also try find more info on Durov to confirm that his words are not a result of any threat. A guy who doesn't wanna own anything , have no reason to lie. Phah. I expected this to happen years ago.*** https://twitter.com/Interpreter_Mag/status/458344654283739136
I'm sorry, i thought that this was about a "forced" threat of debatable sell of his shares, which he did all by himself. Now that i checked his VK page, after some bad 1 april joke of resignation, he actually was fired. He did a joke seems on 1 april resigning from general director, but on april 3 got acepted back, i dont understand all the story. Feel free to read VK posts from http://vk.com/durov directly without getting throuh 3rd party opinions.
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On April 22 2014 05:58 Greem wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2014 05:42 Ghanburighan wrote:On April 22 2014 05:35 Greem wrote:On April 22 2014 05:16 Ghanburighan wrote:Kvasnyuk stressed that his movement isn't ready to give up on the idea of Ukraine altogether. "Right now we hope that we can solve our problems ourselves, without help from Moscow," he told me. But what if the government in Kiev doesn't offer quite as much autonomy as the pro-Russians want? "If we don't get federalization," Kvasnyuk told me, "then there won't be any way to preserve the integrity of Ukraine." So, in effect, secession. But what about after that? Would Kvasnyuk want to join Russia? It was here that our conversation took a rather unexpected turn. No, he explained. It would make more sense for the other Russia-oriented parts of Ukraine to join together to form a new country of their own -- a country he referred to as "Novorossiya." His eyes sparkled. "A population of 20 million, with industry, resources." With advantages like that, who needs to become a part of Russia? "By European standards that's already a good-sized country." ... A few days later, on April 17, Russian President Vladimir Putin, no less, suddenly began using the word during his annual televised question-and-answer sessions with the nation. "Under the tsars, this region was called Novorossiya," he said. "These territories were passed on to Ukraine in the 1920s. Why the Soviet government did that, may God judge them." ... Theoretically speaking, then, one can imagine that Russia might be happy to leave Novorossiya on its own (perhaps under the de facto control of some of the Moscow-friendly oligarchs who already control a disproportionate share of eastern Ukrainian industry). In any case, it's not only the gun-toting "little green men" in eastern Ukraine who seem to be keen on the idea. Earlier this week, pro-Russian activists announced the creation of an "Odessa Republic," potentially a first step toward realizing the Novorossiya idea. So far, though, this new entity remains more a creature of the Internet than a political reality. Read the rest on FP*** https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/458337054145773568*** Please do keep using the N word, it makes it easier to see which post(er)s aren't worth reading. Do you even research what you post ? Try to find at least what Durov said about his reasons of selling his VK shares. I believe his statement was expressing the idea that he doesn't want to own anything , and VK shares was last thing that was holding him in this desire, if you don't know him, he got quite a...i dont know a word, a philosophy of life that judges any belongings, in other words he owns no car, no house, nothing, so as i said that was the reaosn, he openly said. And that he sold his shares to his friend( his words, quoting again). Its quite obvious that the ideas of your posts and links stays the same, try looking through a bit more and examining more carefully content. Also try find more info on Durov to confirm that his words are not a result of any threat. A guy who doesn't wanna own anything , have no reason to lie. Phah. I expected this to happen years ago.*** https://twitter.com/Interpreter_Mag/status/458344654283739136 I'm sorry, i thought that this was about a "forced" threat of debatable sell of his shares, which he did all by himself. Now that i checked his VK page, after some bad 1 april joke of resignation, he actually was fired. He did a joke seems on 1 april resigning from general director, but on april 3 got acepted back, i dont understand all the story. Feel free to read VK posts from http://vk.com/durov directly without getting throuh 3rd party opinions.
Thank you for the additional information and the direct link.
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On April 22 2014 05:58 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2014 05:42 Ghanburighan wrote:On April 22 2014 05:35 Greem wrote:On April 22 2014 05:16 Ghanburighan wrote:Kvasnyuk stressed that his movement isn't ready to give up on the idea of Ukraine altogether. "Right now we hope that we can solve our problems ourselves, without help from Moscow," he told me. But what if the government in Kiev doesn't offer quite as much autonomy as the pro-Russians want? "If we don't get federalization," Kvasnyuk told me, "then there won't be any way to preserve the integrity of Ukraine." So, in effect, secession. But what about after that? Would Kvasnyuk want to join Russia? It was here that our conversation took a rather unexpected turn. No, he explained. It would make more sense for the other Russia-oriented parts of Ukraine to join together to form a new country of their own -- a country he referred to as "Novorossiya." His eyes sparkled. "A population of 20 million, with industry, resources." With advantages like that, who needs to become a part of Russia? "By European standards that's already a good-sized country." ... A few days later, on April 17, Russian President Vladimir Putin, no less, suddenly began using the word during his annual televised question-and-answer sessions with the nation. "Under the tsars, this region was called Novorossiya," he said. "These territories were passed on to Ukraine in the 1920s. Why the Soviet government did that, may God judge them." ... Theoretically speaking, then, one can imagine that Russia might be happy to leave Novorossiya on its own (perhaps under the de facto control of some of the Moscow-friendly oligarchs who already control a disproportionate share of eastern Ukrainian industry). In any case, it's not only the gun-toting "little green men" in eastern Ukraine who seem to be keen on the idea. Earlier this week, pro-Russian activists announced the creation of an "Odessa Republic," potentially a first step toward realizing the Novorossiya idea. So far, though, this new entity remains more a creature of the Internet than a political reality. Read the rest on FP*** https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/458337054145773568*** Please do keep using the N word, it makes it easier to see which post(er)s aren't worth reading. Do you even research what you post ? Try to find at least what Durov said about his reasons of selling his VK shares. I believe his statement was expressing the idea that he doesn't want to own anything , and VK shares was last thing that was holding him in this desire, if you don't know him, he got quite a...i dont know a word, a philosophy of life that judges any belongings, in other words he owns no car, no house, nothing, so as i said that was the reaosn, he openly said. And that he sold his shares to his friend( his words, quoting again). Its quite obvious that the ideas of your posts and links stays the same, try looking through a bit more and examining more carefully content. Also try find more info on Durov to confirm that his words are not a result of any threat. A guy who doesn't wanna own anything , have no reason to lie. Phah. I expected this to happen years ago.*** https://twitter.com/Interpreter_Mag/status/458344654283739136 If EuroMaidan was led etc by "nazis", i wonder what these people should be called then.
brave protectors of russian speakers against the provocation of those sneaky yiddish speakers
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Guess it's justified for israel to annex donetsk now. That "justification" worked for russia according to a couple of people here, guess it would work again.
Totally sounds like CIA all over again. Damn those guys are busy.
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On April 20 2014 13:05 nunez wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2014 04:33 Sub40APM wrote:On April 19 2014 22:54 nunez wrote:
@acertos
i'm not as concerned with russia, i'm not a russian (you chastise putin enough for the both of us anyway).
more interesting to look at how the west again has failed at capitalizing on protests that could have led to democratic change, but instead devolved into violence because of the strange bedfellows they made. Yes, theoretical fascists with no power are always scarier than actual fascists with actual power. washington pr-team not done apologizing for euromaidan fascists yet? deb already (a month too late) adjusting to realities, figured he'd be the last. sad to see cheerio not responding to allegations of being a bandera apologist. makes sense though. yes, thx oneofthem. that is the sad consequence of your foreign policy. putin be poppin.
guys in tan camo are berkut (which has been berkut uniform exactly never) because nunez says so
kramatorsk city and donetsk city are same place because nunez says so
anti-semitism on pro-russia side is all a vampire CIA hoax because nunez says so
fascists have huge influence in kiev what with their control of the ministries of ecology and natural resources of ukraine, minister of agrarian policy and food, and 1 of 4 prime ministers/first vice prime minister/vice primisters (1 vice prime minister) because nunez says so. this is a whopping 15% of ukraine's cabinet, 3 spots out of 20. one can only imagine what sinister fascist treachery the nazis will be able to work controlling the farming ministry. please tell us nunez you seem to have a really good handle on how fascists can use coal mines and cornfields to swastika up ukraine.
russia was provoked because nunez says so
if saying "we don't want to be your bitches" is valid provocation for dismembering a country or covertly going after it then every US intervention nunez has ever bitched about is 100% justified. but of course it's vampire CIA fascists who manipulated and intimidated ukrainians into wanting to say that to russia i'm sure. if only they weren't being controlled by the endowment for democracy they would dance through the tulips waving russian and ukrainian flags and there would be the most beautiful harmony between father russia and child ukraine. how dare that vampire CIA try to take a child away from its loving father who just wants to take his rightful cut of his child's possessions and earnings and control his child's life forever like all good fathers.
lots of adjusting to reality necessary because nunez says so
unfortunately nothing nunez says is within a country mile of reality so i think most of us are going to have to decline adjusting to nunez's fantasies and flamebaiting people over them. maybe nunez should try rubbing people's noses in kremlin propaganda that much harder, the effort does not seem commensurate to the task right now.
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@DeepElemBlues
I don't have the time to point out all his idiotic statements/contradictions so it's nice that you did it for us. Maybe he'll shut up now.
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On April 22 2014 06:36 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2014 13:05 nunez wrote:On April 20 2014 04:33 Sub40APM wrote:On April 19 2014 22:54 nunez wrote:
@acertos
i'm not as concerned with russia, i'm not a russian (you chastise putin enough for the both of us anyway).
more interesting to look at how the west again has failed at capitalizing on protests that could have led to democratic change, but instead devolved into violence because of the strange bedfellows they made. Yes, theoretical fascists with no power are always scarier than actual fascists with actual power. washington pr-team not done apologizing for euromaidan fascists yet? deb already (a month too late) adjusting to realities, figured he'd be the last. sad to see cheerio not responding to allegations of being a bandera apologist. makes sense though. yes, thx oneofthem. that is the sad consequence of your foreign policy. putin be poppin. guys in tan camo are berkut (which has been berkut uniform exactly never) because nunez says so kramatorsk city and donetsk city are same place because nunez says so anti-semitism on pro-russia side is all a vampire CIA hoax because nunez says so fascists have huge influence in kiev what with their control of the ministries of ecology and natural resources of ukraine, minister of agrarian policy and food, and 1 of 4 prime ministers/first vice prime minister/vice primisters (1 vice prime minister) because nunez says so. this is a whopping 15% of ukraine's cabinet, 3 spots out of 20. one can only imagine what sinister fascist treachery the nazis will be able to work controlling the farming ministry. please tell us nunez you seem to have a really good handle on how fascists can use coal mines and cornfields to swastika up ukraine. russia was provoked because nunez says so if saying "we don't want to be your bitches" is valid provocation for dismembering a country or covertly going after it then every US intervention nunez has ever bitched about is 100% justified. but of course it's vampire CIA fascists who manipulated and intimidated ukrainians into wanting to say that to russia i'm sure. if only they weren't being controlled by the endowment for democracy they would dance through the tulips waving russian and ukrainian flags and there would be the most beautiful harmony between father russia and child ukraine. how dare that vampire CIA try to take a child away from its loving father who just wants to take his rightful cut of his child's possessions and earnings and control his child's life forever like all good fathers. lots of adjusting to reality necessary because nunez says so unfortunately nothing nunez says is within a country mile of reality so i think most of us are going to have to decline adjusting to nunez's fantasies and flamebaiting people over them. maybe nunez should try rubbing people's noses in kremlin propaganda that much harder, the effort does not seem commensurate to the task right now.
besides the points you made up yourself, you will find my concerns are mostly mainstream. fascist presence in maidan, western govt and media's failure to deal with it in a proper way, especially the us (shaking hands with svoboda leaders f.ex). us tendency to meddle in foreign affairs through the likes of usaid and ned is well established at this point (recent stories on venezuela and cuba f.ex), brennan's secret visit to kiev also establishes that the cia is involved, and has been involved in ukraine for a good while.
i never denied a fascist / ultra-nationalist presence in eastern ukraine, however the pamphlet story that was disseminated was a hoax at best, and vampire cia propaganda at worst. i'm leaning more towards the latter, as they are the ones who would gain on such a stunt. i even posted the demonstrations in the east mirrors the one in the west, that's quite a damning statement on the ones in the vanguard coming from me no?
i said that what you think is russian troops in eastern ukraine is more likely berkut, you have eye-witness accounts saying berkut is indeed involved in the very same article you posted. you seemed to imply that different uniforms means that they are russian troops, which is a bit... tough to understand. you are maybe too embarrassed to come clean on your confusion at this point since you have avoided the question several times?
you are mixing provocation with legitimacy in your eagerness to flail arms and spittle at me, which should be a pacifying realization for you. the annexation was not legitimate, but claiming that russia did not think it was reacting to provocation is a stretch.
you also fail to mention parubiy and yarosh, the pink elephants in the room, which is an embarrassing and obvious attempt at deceit. also worth noting the push to get fascist militias to join the national guard and then dispatching them to fight the protestors in the east re: parubiy's twitter.
the lower half of your post is a piece of work, i'll give you that.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On April 22 2014 05:58 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2014 05:42 Ghanburighan wrote:On April 22 2014 05:35 Greem wrote:On April 22 2014 05:16 Ghanburighan wrote:Kvasnyuk stressed that his movement isn't ready to give up on the idea of Ukraine altogether. "Right now we hope that we can solve our problems ourselves, without help from Moscow," he told me. But what if the government in Kiev doesn't offer quite as much autonomy as the pro-Russians want? "If we don't get federalization," Kvasnyuk told me, "then there won't be any way to preserve the integrity of Ukraine." So, in effect, secession. But what about after that? Would Kvasnyuk want to join Russia? It was here that our conversation took a rather unexpected turn. No, he explained. It would make more sense for the other Russia-oriented parts of Ukraine to join together to form a new country of their own -- a country he referred to as "Novorossiya." His eyes sparkled. "A population of 20 million, with industry, resources." With advantages like that, who needs to become a part of Russia? "By European standards that's already a good-sized country." ... A few days later, on April 17, Russian President Vladimir Putin, no less, suddenly began using the word during his annual televised question-and-answer sessions with the nation. "Under the tsars, this region was called Novorossiya," he said. "These territories were passed on to Ukraine in the 1920s. Why the Soviet government did that, may God judge them." ... Theoretically speaking, then, one can imagine that Russia might be happy to leave Novorossiya on its own (perhaps under the de facto control of some of the Moscow-friendly oligarchs who already control a disproportionate share of eastern Ukrainian industry). In any case, it's not only the gun-toting "little green men" in eastern Ukraine who seem to be keen on the idea. Earlier this week, pro-Russian activists announced the creation of an "Odessa Republic," potentially a first step toward realizing the Novorossiya idea. So far, though, this new entity remains more a creature of the Internet than a political reality. Read the rest on FP*** https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/458337054145773568*** Please do keep using the N word, it makes it easier to see which post(er)s aren't worth reading. Do you even research what you post ? Try to find at least what Durov said about his reasons of selling his VK shares. I believe his statement was expressing the idea that he doesn't want to own anything , and VK shares was last thing that was holding him in this desire, if you don't know him, he got quite a...i dont know a word, a philosophy of life that judges any belongings, in other words he owns no car, no house, nothing, so as i said that was the reaosn, he openly said. And that he sold his shares to his friend( his words, quoting again). Its quite obvious that the ideas of your posts and links stays the same, try looking through a bit more and examining more carefully content. Also try find more info on Durov to confirm that his words are not a result of any threat. A guy who doesn't wanna own anything , have no reason to lie. Phah. I expected this to happen years ago.*** https://twitter.com/Interpreter_Mag/status/458344654283739136 If EuroMaidan was led etc by "nazis", i wonder what these people should be called then.
Opportunists with an anti-semitic agenda that really don't represent the agenda of the major political groups of Ukraine.
Europe as a whole is pretty strongly anti-semitic, and I don't see why Ukraine would be any different.
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On April 22 2014 08:16 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2014 05:58 m4ini wrote:On April 22 2014 05:42 Ghanburighan wrote:On April 22 2014 05:35 Greem wrote:On April 22 2014 05:16 Ghanburighan wrote:Kvasnyuk stressed that his movement isn't ready to give up on the idea of Ukraine altogether. "Right now we hope that we can solve our problems ourselves, without help from Moscow," he told me. But what if the government in Kiev doesn't offer quite as much autonomy as the pro-Russians want? "If we don't get federalization," Kvasnyuk told me, "then there won't be any way to preserve the integrity of Ukraine." So, in effect, secession. But what about after that? Would Kvasnyuk want to join Russia? It was here that our conversation took a rather unexpected turn. No, he explained. It would make more sense for the other Russia-oriented parts of Ukraine to join together to form a new country of their own -- a country he referred to as "Novorossiya." His eyes sparkled. "A population of 20 million, with industry, resources." With advantages like that, who needs to become a part of Russia? "By European standards that's already a good-sized country." ... A few days later, on April 17, Russian President Vladimir Putin, no less, suddenly began using the word during his annual televised question-and-answer sessions with the nation. "Under the tsars, this region was called Novorossiya," he said. "These territories were passed on to Ukraine in the 1920s. Why the Soviet government did that, may God judge them." ... Theoretically speaking, then, one can imagine that Russia might be happy to leave Novorossiya on its own (perhaps under the de facto control of some of the Moscow-friendly oligarchs who already control a disproportionate share of eastern Ukrainian industry). In any case, it's not only the gun-toting "little green men" in eastern Ukraine who seem to be keen on the idea. Earlier this week, pro-Russian activists announced the creation of an "Odessa Republic," potentially a first step toward realizing the Novorossiya idea. So far, though, this new entity remains more a creature of the Internet than a political reality. Read the rest on FP*** https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/458337054145773568*** Please do keep using the N word, it makes it easier to see which post(er)s aren't worth reading. Do you even research what you post ? Try to find at least what Durov said about his reasons of selling his VK shares. I believe his statement was expressing the idea that he doesn't want to own anything , and VK shares was last thing that was holding him in this desire, if you don't know him, he got quite a...i dont know a word, a philosophy of life that judges any belongings, in other words he owns no car, no house, nothing, so as i said that was the reaosn, he openly said. And that he sold his shares to his friend( his words, quoting again). Its quite obvious that the ideas of your posts and links stays the same, try looking through a bit more and examining more carefully content. Also try find more info on Durov to confirm that his words are not a result of any threat. A guy who doesn't wanna own anything , have no reason to lie. Phah. I expected this to happen years ago.*** https://twitter.com/Interpreter_Mag/status/458344654283739136 If EuroMaidan was led etc by "nazis", i wonder what these people should be called then. Opportunists with an anti-semitic agenda that really don't represent the agenda of the major political groups of Ukraine. Europe as a whole is pretty strongly anti-semitic, and I don't see why Ukraine would be any different.
That kinda sounds pretty much like the svoboda guys, doesn't it? How is one different than the other?
About anti-semetic agendas, i'm from germany. Not much to see here in terms of that, and if someone makes the tiniest of comments, medias (and politicians) ravage the person.
edit: not to mention, they are not "opportunists with an anti-semitic agenda" or some sugarcoating like that. They're as much nazis/fascists as the people that you and others are condemning. Weird to see people in this case telling others that they're "opportunists" (as if EuroMaidan was different oO), and it's okay since europe anyway is pretty anti-semetic.
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On April 22 2014 08:16 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2014 05:58 m4ini wrote:On April 22 2014 05:42 Ghanburighan wrote:On April 22 2014 05:35 Greem wrote:On April 22 2014 05:16 Ghanburighan wrote:Kvasnyuk stressed that his movement isn't ready to give up on the idea of Ukraine altogether. "Right now we hope that we can solve our problems ourselves, without help from Moscow," he told me. But what if the government in Kiev doesn't offer quite as much autonomy as the pro-Russians want? "If we don't get federalization," Kvasnyuk told me, "then there won't be any way to preserve the integrity of Ukraine." So, in effect, secession. But what about after that? Would Kvasnyuk want to join Russia? It was here that our conversation took a rather unexpected turn. No, he explained. It would make more sense for the other Russia-oriented parts of Ukraine to join together to form a new country of their own -- a country he referred to as "Novorossiya." His eyes sparkled. "A population of 20 million, with industry, resources." With advantages like that, who needs to become a part of Russia? "By European standards that's already a good-sized country." ... A few days later, on April 17, Russian President Vladimir Putin, no less, suddenly began using the word during his annual televised question-and-answer sessions with the nation. "Under the tsars, this region was called Novorossiya," he said. "These territories were passed on to Ukraine in the 1920s. Why the Soviet government did that, may God judge them." ... Theoretically speaking, then, one can imagine that Russia might be happy to leave Novorossiya on its own (perhaps under the de facto control of some of the Moscow-friendly oligarchs who already control a disproportionate share of eastern Ukrainian industry). In any case, it's not only the gun-toting "little green men" in eastern Ukraine who seem to be keen on the idea. Earlier this week, pro-Russian activists announced the creation of an "Odessa Republic," potentially a first step toward realizing the Novorossiya idea. So far, though, this new entity remains more a creature of the Internet than a political reality. Read the rest on FP*** https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/458337054145773568*** Please do keep using the N word, it makes it easier to see which post(er)s aren't worth reading. Do you even research what you post ? Try to find at least what Durov said about his reasons of selling his VK shares. I believe his statement was expressing the idea that he doesn't want to own anything , and VK shares was last thing that was holding him in this desire, if you don't know him, he got quite a...i dont know a word, a philosophy of life that judges any belongings, in other words he owns no car, no house, nothing, so as i said that was the reaosn, he openly said. And that he sold his shares to his friend( his words, quoting again). Its quite obvious that the ideas of your posts and links stays the same, try looking through a bit more and examining more carefully content. Also try find more info on Durov to confirm that his words are not a result of any threat. A guy who doesn't wanna own anything , have no reason to lie. Phah. I expected this to happen years ago.*** https://twitter.com/Interpreter_Mag/status/458344654283739136 If EuroMaidan was led etc by "nazis", i wonder what these people should be called then. Opportunists with an anti-semitic agenda that really don't represent the agenda of the major political groups of Ukraine. Europe as a whole is pretty strongly anti-semitic, and I don't see why Ukraine would be any different.
Funny you mention that, as the head rabi of ukraine said neither him nor any of the ukranian jews felt threatened in any way, and then of course once russia marched into crimea they started marking and burning tatar property, and now as soon as russian funded/russian "seperatist" fascist millitia takes over some cities they go straight into anti semitism.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On April 22 2014 08:29 m4ini wrote:That kinda sounds pretty much like the svoboda guys, doesn't it? How is one different than the other?
Dunno. Not really sure enough about what's going on there to make judments like that.
On April 22 2014 08:29 m4ini wrote:About anti-semetic agendas, i'm from germany. Not much to see here in terms of that, and if someone makes the tiniest of comments, medias (and politicians) ravage the person.
That's more like suppressed anti-semitism than real acceptance of Jews. But that's really quite beside the point.
On April 22 2014 08:29 m4ini wrote:edit: not to mention, they are not "opportunists with an anti-semitic agenda" or some sugarcoating like that. They're as much nazis/fascists as the people that you and others are condemning. Weird to see people in this case telling others that they're "opportunists" (as if EuroMaidan was different oO), and it's okay since europe anyway is pretty anti-semetic.
Who said I was supporting them?
I just think they're a fringe element, not part of the major group, that's all. Even the US hasn't tried to pin that on the pro-Russian movement, and with good reason.
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On April 22 2014 08:16 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2014 05:58 m4ini wrote:On April 22 2014 05:42 Ghanburighan wrote:On April 22 2014 05:35 Greem wrote:On April 22 2014 05:16 Ghanburighan wrote:Kvasnyuk stressed that his movement isn't ready to give up on the idea of Ukraine altogether. "Right now we hope that we can solve our problems ourselves, without help from Moscow," he told me. But what if the government in Kiev doesn't offer quite as much autonomy as the pro-Russians want? "If we don't get federalization," Kvasnyuk told me, "then there won't be any way to preserve the integrity of Ukraine." So, in effect, secession. But what about after that? Would Kvasnyuk want to join Russia? It was here that our conversation took a rather unexpected turn. No, he explained. It would make more sense for the other Russia-oriented parts of Ukraine to join together to form a new country of their own -- a country he referred to as "Novorossiya." His eyes sparkled. "A population of 20 million, with industry, resources." With advantages like that, who needs to become a part of Russia? "By European standards that's already a good-sized country." ... A few days later, on April 17, Russian President Vladimir Putin, no less, suddenly began using the word during his annual televised question-and-answer sessions with the nation. "Under the tsars, this region was called Novorossiya," he said. "These territories were passed on to Ukraine in the 1920s. Why the Soviet government did that, may God judge them." ... Theoretically speaking, then, one can imagine that Russia might be happy to leave Novorossiya on its own (perhaps under the de facto control of some of the Moscow-friendly oligarchs who already control a disproportionate share of eastern Ukrainian industry). In any case, it's not only the gun-toting "little green men" in eastern Ukraine who seem to be keen on the idea. Earlier this week, pro-Russian activists announced the creation of an "Odessa Republic," potentially a first step toward realizing the Novorossiya idea. So far, though, this new entity remains more a creature of the Internet than a political reality. Read the rest on FP*** https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/458337054145773568*** Please do keep using the N word, it makes it easier to see which post(er)s aren't worth reading. Do you even research what you post ? Try to find at least what Durov said about his reasons of selling his VK shares. I believe his statement was expressing the idea that he doesn't want to own anything , and VK shares was last thing that was holding him in this desire, if you don't know him, he got quite a...i dont know a word, a philosophy of life that judges any belongings, in other words he owns no car, no house, nothing, so as i said that was the reaosn, he openly said. And that he sold his shares to his friend( his words, quoting again). Its quite obvious that the ideas of your posts and links stays the same, try looking through a bit more and examining more carefully content. Also try find more info on Durov to confirm that his words are not a result of any threat. A guy who doesn't wanna own anything , have no reason to lie. Phah. I expected this to happen years ago.*** https://twitter.com/Interpreter_Mag/status/458344654283739136 If EuroMaidan was led etc by "nazis", i wonder what these people should be called then. Opportunists with an anti-semitic agenda that really don't represent the agenda of the major political groups of Ukraine. Europe as a whole is pretty strongly anti-semitic, and I don't see why Ukraine would be any different.
The Jewish community in Russia went from two million people in the 90's to 200k today. Russia is best buddies with Iran, if I'm allowed to remember you that's the country that has repeatedly stated that it wants to 'wipe Israel off the map'. But thank god we have Russia protecting everyone from anti-semitic Europe.
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That's more like suppressed anti-semitism than real acceptance of Jews. But that's really quite beside the point.
It is. And no, it's not "suppressed anti-semitism", we kinda have our past. The comments i was talking about were in regards to people critizising israel for the westbank etc, like justified criticism - you can't do that here since you're labeled anti semit for that already (and yeah, by that definition, i am antisemitic as well).
And i never said you "support" them. I said you're sugarcoating it, playing it down. Justifying it with "europe is pretty anti-semitic anyway", while still calling the guys in kiev fascists/nazis. By the "definition" you gave me, those people are not "nazis" either, but "opportunists".
Russia is best buddies with Iran, if I'm allowed to remember you that's the country that has repeatedly stated that it wants to 'wipe Israel off the map'.
Not to mention, had one of the most famous holocaust-deniers as a leader until recently.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On April 22 2014 09:00 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +That's more like suppressed anti-semitism than real acceptance of Jews. But that's really quite beside the point.
It is. And no, it's not "suppressed anti-semitism", we kinda have our past. The comments i was talking about were in regards to people critizising israel for the westbank etc, like justified criticism - you can't do that here since you're labeled anti semit for that already (and yeah, by that definition, i am antisemitic as well). And i never said you "support" them. I said you're sugarcoating it, playing it down. Justifying it with "europe is pretty anti-semitic anyway", while still calling the guys in kiev fascists/nazis. By the "definition" you gave me, those people are not "nazis" either, but "opportunists".
Actually, it's more that I don't want to pin the blame on anyone. Whoever is spreading anti-semitism is definitely no better than the Bandera etc.
On April 22 2014 08:52 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2014 08:16 LegalLord wrote:On April 22 2014 05:58 m4ini wrote:On April 22 2014 05:42 Ghanburighan wrote:On April 22 2014 05:35 Greem wrote:On April 22 2014 05:16 Ghanburighan wrote:Kvasnyuk stressed that his movement isn't ready to give up on the idea of Ukraine altogether. "Right now we hope that we can solve our problems ourselves, without help from Moscow," he told me. But what if the government in Kiev doesn't offer quite as much autonomy as the pro-Russians want? "If we don't get federalization," Kvasnyuk told me, "then there won't be any way to preserve the integrity of Ukraine." So, in effect, secession. But what about after that? Would Kvasnyuk want to join Russia? It was here that our conversation took a rather unexpected turn. No, he explained. It would make more sense for the other Russia-oriented parts of Ukraine to join together to form a new country of their own -- a country he referred to as "Novorossiya." His eyes sparkled. "A population of 20 million, with industry, resources." With advantages like that, who needs to become a part of Russia? "By European standards that's already a good-sized country." ... A few days later, on April 17, Russian President Vladimir Putin, no less, suddenly began using the word during his annual televised question-and-answer sessions with the nation. "Under the tsars, this region was called Novorossiya," he said. "These territories were passed on to Ukraine in the 1920s. Why the Soviet government did that, may God judge them." ... Theoretically speaking, then, one can imagine that Russia might be happy to leave Novorossiya on its own (perhaps under the de facto control of some of the Moscow-friendly oligarchs who already control a disproportionate share of eastern Ukrainian industry). In any case, it's not only the gun-toting "little green men" in eastern Ukraine who seem to be keen on the idea. Earlier this week, pro-Russian activists announced the creation of an "Odessa Republic," potentially a first step toward realizing the Novorossiya idea. So far, though, this new entity remains more a creature of the Internet than a political reality. Read the rest on FP*** https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/458337054145773568*** Please do keep using the N word, it makes it easier to see which post(er)s aren't worth reading. Do you even research what you post ? Try to find at least what Durov said about his reasons of selling his VK shares. I believe his statement was expressing the idea that he doesn't want to own anything , and VK shares was last thing that was holding him in this desire, if you don't know him, he got quite a...i dont know a word, a philosophy of life that judges any belongings, in other words he owns no car, no house, nothing, so as i said that was the reaosn, he openly said. And that he sold his shares to his friend( his words, quoting again). Its quite obvious that the ideas of your posts and links stays the same, try looking through a bit more and examining more carefully content. Also try find more info on Durov to confirm that his words are not a result of any threat. A guy who doesn't wanna own anything , have no reason to lie. Phah. I expected this to happen years ago.*** https://twitter.com/Interpreter_Mag/status/458344654283739136 If EuroMaidan was led etc by "nazis", i wonder what these people should be called then. Opportunists with an anti-semitic agenda that really don't represent the agenda of the major political groups of Ukraine. Europe as a whole is pretty strongly anti-semitic, and I don't see why Ukraine would be any different. The Jewish community in Russia went from two million people in the 90's to 200k today. Russia is best buddies with Iran, if I'm allowed to remember you that's the country that has repeatedly stated that it wants to 'wipe Israel off the map'. But thank god we have Russia protecting everyone from anti-semitic Europe.
There are only two countries in the world that could be called friendly to Jews. Russia is not one of them.
That being said: I am familiar enough with the Jewish migration from the USSR to say that nationalist terrorists in the smaller republics and economics had at least as much to do with their departure as any mistreatment by Russia.
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edit: too stupid to quote, sigh
Well, then feel yourself excluded from that comment i made. Still leaves others who it fits to. Thanks for clarifying.
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@LegalLord
I don't get what you guys are talking about with this lack of "Jew friendliness". Most non-Muslim developed countries are what I would say Jew-neutral (i.e. treat them like normal people). In a lot of these countries there is a small minority of people who have anti-Semitic views. I'd say there is only ONE Jew-friendly country and that is Israel. In the USA most people are Jew-neutral, we do have some neo-nazis, and although are government has harboured a pro-Isreal policy that doesn't make our society Jew-friendly.
So Jew-neutral is all of the Americas, W. Europe, Asia, etc.
In E. Europe you could label many countries as Jew unfriendly, where a very significant part of the population has some negative attitudes towards Jews (like "they control businesses or media" etc.).
However, this is all somewhat irrelevant to the issue at hand. Jew unfriendliness is one thing, neo-nazism and Jew *hating* is another. These are groups that actively promote an anti-Jewish stance, commit hate crimes, empathize with Hitler.
Jew-hating is the issue with some of the nationalists in Ukraine, a long with some of the "protestors" in E. Ukraine. The two groups (Ukranian nationalist party members, and pro-Russia protestors) are generally speaking the same group of people. They are *both* nationalists but one is pro-Russia, the other pro-Ukraine. They both harbour anti-Jewish feelings to some degree. They are composed of mainly working class people, with the men being affected by hyper-masculinity (propensity for shaved heads, violence, soccer hooliganism, etc.) I know I am generalizing a lot, but I think anybody who has lived in E. Europe knows what I'm talking about.
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On April 22 2014 05:58 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2014 05:42 Ghanburighan wrote:On April 22 2014 05:35 Greem wrote:On April 22 2014 05:16 Ghanburighan wrote:Kvasnyuk stressed that his movement isn't ready to give up on the idea of Ukraine altogether. "Right now we hope that we can solve our problems ourselves, without help from Moscow," he told me. But what if the government in Kiev doesn't offer quite as much autonomy as the pro-Russians want? "If we don't get federalization," Kvasnyuk told me, "then there won't be any way to preserve the integrity of Ukraine." So, in effect, secession. But what about after that? Would Kvasnyuk want to join Russia? It was here that our conversation took a rather unexpected turn. No, he explained. It would make more sense for the other Russia-oriented parts of Ukraine to join together to form a new country of their own -- a country he referred to as "Novorossiya." His eyes sparkled. "A population of 20 million, with industry, resources." With advantages like that, who needs to become a part of Russia? "By European standards that's already a good-sized country." ... A few days later, on April 17, Russian President Vladimir Putin, no less, suddenly began using the word during his annual televised question-and-answer sessions with the nation. "Under the tsars, this region was called Novorossiya," he said. "These territories were passed on to Ukraine in the 1920s. Why the Soviet government did that, may God judge them." ... Theoretically speaking, then, one can imagine that Russia might be happy to leave Novorossiya on its own (perhaps under the de facto control of some of the Moscow-friendly oligarchs who already control a disproportionate share of eastern Ukrainian industry). In any case, it's not only the gun-toting "little green men" in eastern Ukraine who seem to be keen on the idea. Earlier this week, pro-Russian activists announced the creation of an "Odessa Republic," potentially a first step toward realizing the Novorossiya idea. So far, though, this new entity remains more a creature of the Internet than a political reality. Read the rest on FP*** https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/458337054145773568*** Please do keep using the N word, it makes it easier to see which post(er)s aren't worth reading. Do you even research what you post ? Try to find at least what Durov said about his reasons of selling his VK shares. I believe his statement was expressing the idea that he doesn't want to own anything , and VK shares was last thing that was holding him in this desire, if you don't know him, he got quite a...i dont know a word, a philosophy of life that judges any belongings, in other words he owns no car, no house, nothing, so as i said that was the reaosn, he openly said. And that he sold his shares to his friend( his words, quoting again). Its quite obvious that the ideas of your posts and links stays the same, try looking through a bit more and examining more carefully content. Also try find more info on Durov to confirm that his words are not a result of any threat. A guy who doesn't wanna own anything , have no reason to lie. Phah. I expected this to happen years ago.*** https://twitter.com/Interpreter_Mag/status/458344654283739136 If EuroMaidan was led etc by "nazis", i wonder what these people should be called then.
+ Show Spoiler +
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An OSCE team “has been in Donetsk but has not yet made progress,” one diplomat said. “They are trying to get back into Slovyansk, but pro-Russian demonstrators have been blocking the way.” An OSCE assessment released Monday described the situation as “very tense” in Donetsk and as “deteriorating” in Slovyansk, where “the entire town is under the control of armed groups.” Free passage of the monitors and the disarming of separatists were key elements of the agreement reached in Geneva on Thursday among the United States, Russia, Ukraine and the European Union, and the very terms that U.S. officials said would be the primary test of whether Russia intended to comply with the accord. U.S. officials said late last week that they expected to see results by Monday. Collapse of the agreement — which Lavrov on Monday accused Ukraine of violating — would almost certainly lead to additional U.S. sanctions against Russian individuals. But a U.S. response is unlikely until at least after Vice President Biden returns home Wednesday from a visit to the Ukrainian capital, Kiev, according to a senior State Department official speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal policy deliberations. Source
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Nice article on the tactics used by Russian forces in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.
Secretary of State John Kerry has accused Russia of behaving in a “19th-century fashion” because of its annexation of Crimea. But Western experts who have followed the success of Russian forces in carrying out President Vladimir V. Putin’s policy in Crimea and eastern Ukraine have come to a different conclusion about Russian military strategy. They see a military disparaged for its decline since the fall of the Soviet Union skillfully employing 21st-century tactics that combine cyberwarfare, an energetic information campaign and the use of highly trained special operation troops to seize the initiative from the West. Keep reading here.
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As a response to some of these Linke posts in this thread:
The link is in German.
(And this comes from a left-leaning magazine in Germany).
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More on the treatment of Tatars.
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You shouldn't link crap like this. It's obvious, what opinion i have on the whole thing, but..
Yeah, no. This article is based on nothing really, it's an editors rant. He's discrediting and namecalling people who vote left, not much more. It's an opinion, as much as anyone elses.
Don't go too much into these "indi-pages", 95% of what you can read there is utter bs.
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EPT
