On April 22 2014 00:44 BeaSteR wrote: It is amusing following this thread seeing nunez and LegalLord time and time again come to the aid of Russia. The thread has derailed into two sides throwing dirt at each other. Yes svoboda and the "neo-nazis" are bad, but is it not equally bad for heavily armed men to claim government buildings and take hostages? A more nuanced discussion from the pro-Russians please, can you admit that Russia did anything wrong?
Whenever a faulty Russian action is pointed out pro-Russians point to: but the US did that and that. So the US acting police means Russia can behave however it pleases? Ukraine/Kiev = US? Seriously how can anyone believe that the demonstrations leading up to Yanukovych leaving was because of some western conspiracy??
It's hard not to throw dirt at stubborn idiots But after a while it gets boring and I just ignore there posts.
Returning to relevant information, tomorrow Easter is over so in theory Ukraine might try to retake some of the occupied towns. If they do, I really hope they try to retake some of the 'easier' towns, (not Slavyansk). Going for the easy targets first and having some minor victories will boost Ukraine troop moral and lower the moral of the occupants.
Since no diplomatic solution seems acceptable the other solution is to just wait. What do you think would happen if they just waited it out? I think eventually people would just stop caring and leave the buildings. Most people don't support annexation by Russia so even if some referendum were passed, it would remain part of Ukraine for the near future. Only issue is that Ukraine *needs* to hold legitimate elections soon. That's basically impossible given the current situation, so the only option I see is using the army to get rid of the protestors. They brought it on themselves, so the real victims are the inhabitants of this town who simply want to live in peace :/
edit: oops, Easter is a whole week long. I guess things will be relatively quiet for now... except for all the talk and accusations.
go watch the speech from die linke politician, i thought it was an excellent summary of the situation. the lack of nuance is a problem indeed, but you are off the mark. there is no reasonable discussion to be had when you insist on pidgeonholing this conflict into pro-russian / anti-russian. contrary to popular belief i am not pro-russian, but i am thoroughly fed up with us warmongering.
demonstrations are great, putsch by a fascist militia not so much.
i brought up syria not because of the us (this time), but because of ghanburgers tendency to denounce people as trolls and conspiracy theorists, while buying into a conspiracy theory himself. and as it turned out his conspiracy theory was wrong and the conspiracy theorists were probably right. trying to rub his nose into it to make him stop.
On April 22 2014 01:25 nunez wrote: go watch the speech from die linke politician, i thought it was an excellent summary of the situation. the lack of nuance is a problem indeed, but you are off the mark. there is no reasonable discussion to be had when you insist on pidgeonholing this conflict into pro-russian / anti-russian. contrary to popular belief i am not pro-russian, but i am thoroughly fed up with us warmongering.
demonstrations are great, putsch by a fascist militia not so much.
Where is this fascist militia? There was nothing to show that the new Madian backed government would do anything of the sorts prior to the elections. Your line of thinking makes no sense when Madian hasn't been the aggressor since Yankovich was driven out for trying to violently end the protests.
the same fascist milita which the new govt demanded turn in its weapons and join the national guard.
actually there's a whole slew of fascist militas involved in the maidan protests, i remember listing them before.
what is happening in the east, protestors and fascist militias (prolly there as well) occupying govt buildings and the govt response echoes what was happening in the west only 2 months ago.
April 21. Lugansk, Ukraine. A few people, organized by russian special services, are standing for the Russian anthem. An armed terrorists and separatists are hiding right behind them. No doubt.
On April 22 2014 02:34 LocalPredictor wrote: April 21. Lugansk, Ukraine. A few people, organized by russian special services, are standing for the Russian anthem. An armed terrorists and separatists are hiding right behind them. No doubt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLRkTkEPqSc
Silly move, they should be making an emphasis on more autonomy and becoming more like Crimea, not singing Russian national anthem and waving Russian flags around. They are alienating many Ukrainians who are against the current governments and would support them in their cause for more autonomy. I also seriously doubt there is any chance of Russia absorbing Lugansk or Donetsk, even if both sides wanted such outcome.
On April 22 2014 01:30 nunez wrote: the same fascist milita which the new govt demanded turn in its weapons and join the national guard.
actually there's a whole slew of fascist militas involved in the maidan protests, i remember listing them before.
what is happening in the east, protestors and fascist militias (prolly there as well) occupying govt buildings and the govt response echoes what was happening in the west only 2 months ago.
yes we know they were involved in the protests. That happens when a passive civilian protest turns to anyone willing to help them in the face of violence. But where have they been since? They weren't stirring up trouble in the Crimea when Russia had to swoop in to "save the Russians" there. I have not seen any sign of anything being done by them to warrant aggression from Russia prior to the invasion of the Crimea. If you have actual proof they were and not some RT propaganda I would be glad to hear it.
On April 22 2014 04:38 kukarachaa wrote: I wish people would stop throwing the word nazi around left and right.
That's they beliefs, and its not a insult for them, is who they are. But i understand that is used too much, but the situation is quite tense, so you must expect most harsh and direct words to be used.
Kvasnyuk stressed that his movement isn't ready to give up on the idea of Ukraine altogether. "Right now we hope that we can solve our problems ourselves, without help from Moscow," he told me. But what if the government in Kiev doesn't offer quite as much autonomy as the pro-Russians want? "If we don't get federalization," Kvasnyuk told me, "then there won't be any way to preserve the integrity of Ukraine." So, in effect, secession. But what about after that? Would Kvasnyuk want to join Russia?
It was here that our conversation took a rather unexpected turn. No, he explained. It would make more sense for the other Russia-oriented parts of Ukraine to join together to form a new country of their own -- a country he referred to as "Novorossiya." His eyes sparkled. "A population of 20 million, with industry, resources." With advantages like that, who needs to become a part of Russia? "By European standards that's already a good-sized country."
...
A few days later, on April 17, Russian President Vladimir Putin, no less, suddenly began using the word during his annual televised question-and-answer sessions with the nation. "Under the tsars, this region was called Novorossiya," he said. "These territories were passed on to Ukraine in the 1920s. Why the Soviet government did that, may God judge them."
...
Theoretically speaking, then, one can imagine that Russia might be happy to leave Novorossiya on its own (perhaps under the de facto control of some of the Moscow-friendly oligarchs who already control a disproportionate share of eastern Ukrainian industry). In any case, it's not only the gun-toting "little green men" in eastern Ukraine who seem to be keen on the idea. Earlier this week, pro-Russian activists announced the creation of an "Odessa Republic," potentially a first step toward realizing the Novorossiya idea. So far, though, this new entity remains more a creature of the Internet than a political reality. Read the rest on FP
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Please do keep using the N word, it makes it easier to see which post(er)s aren't worth reading.
On April 22 2014 05:24 Mc wrote: If you just keep repeating that Ukrainians are Nazis or that the Ukrainian government is Nazi you won't convince anyone. Maybe you could try to convince us using links to NEWS ARTICLES (i.e. evidence) of Nazi acts performed by the government in Ukraine? I'll even except RT articles, since that seems like the only news you read.
...or you could just keep repeating Ukraine NAZIS, Maidan NAZIS, bla bla bla.
And RT articles aren't considered passable without reputable 3rd party confirmation because like most media in Russia it's controlled by the Russian government. It's the same with Official White house statements or China's media...
Kvasnyuk stressed that his movement isn't ready to give up on the idea of Ukraine altogether. "Right now we hope that we can solve our problems ourselves, without help from Moscow," he told me. But what if the government in Kiev doesn't offer quite as much autonomy as the pro-Russians want? "If we don't get federalization," Kvasnyuk told me, "then there won't be any way to preserve the integrity of Ukraine." So, in effect, secession. But what about after that? Would Kvasnyuk want to join Russia?
It was here that our conversation took a rather unexpected turn. No, he explained. It would make more sense for the other Russia-oriented parts of Ukraine to join together to form a new country of their own -- a country he referred to as "Novorossiya." His eyes sparkled. "A population of 20 million, with industry, resources." With advantages like that, who needs to become a part of Russia? "By European standards that's already a good-sized country."
...
A few days later, on April 17, Russian President Vladimir Putin, no less, suddenly began using the word during his annual televised question-and-answer sessions with the nation. "Under the tsars, this region was called Novorossiya," he said. "These territories were passed on to Ukraine in the 1920s. Why the Soviet government did that, may God judge them."
...
Theoretically speaking, then, one can imagine that Russia might be happy to leave Novorossiya on its own (perhaps under the de facto control of some of the Moscow-friendly oligarchs who already control a disproportionate share of eastern Ukrainian industry). In any case, it's not only the gun-toting "little green men" in eastern Ukraine who seem to be keen on the idea. Earlier this week, pro-Russian activists announced the creation of an "Odessa Republic," potentially a first step toward realizing the Novorossiya idea. So far, though, this new entity remains more a creature of the Internet than a political reality. Read the rest on FP
Please do keep using the N word, it makes it easier to see which post(er)s aren't worth reading.
Do you even research what you post ? Try to find at least what Durov said about his reasons of selling his VK shares. I believe his statement was expressing the idea that he doesn't want to own anything , and VK shares was last thing that was holding him in this desire, if you don't know him, he got quite a...i dont know a word, a philosophy of life that judges any belongings, in other words he owns no car, no house, nothing, so as i said that was the reaosn, he openly said. And that he sold his shares to his friend( his words, quoting again). Its quite obvious that the ideas of your posts and links stays the same, try looking through a bit more and examining more carefully content. Also try find more info on Durov to confirm that his words are not a result of any threat. A guy who doesn't wanna own anything , have no reason to lie.
Kvasnyuk stressed that his movement isn't ready to give up on the idea of Ukraine altogether. "Right now we hope that we can solve our problems ourselves, without help from Moscow," he told me. But what if the government in Kiev doesn't offer quite as much autonomy as the pro-Russians want? "If we don't get federalization," Kvasnyuk told me, "then there won't be any way to preserve the integrity of Ukraine." So, in effect, secession. But what about after that? Would Kvasnyuk want to join Russia?
It was here that our conversation took a rather unexpected turn. No, he explained. It would make more sense for the other Russia-oriented parts of Ukraine to join together to form a new country of their own -- a country he referred to as "Novorossiya." His eyes sparkled. "A population of 20 million, with industry, resources." With advantages like that, who needs to become a part of Russia? "By European standards that's already a good-sized country."
...
A few days later, on April 17, Russian President Vladimir Putin, no less, suddenly began using the word during his annual televised question-and-answer sessions with the nation. "Under the tsars, this region was called Novorossiya," he said. "These territories were passed on to Ukraine in the 1920s. Why the Soviet government did that, may God judge them."
...
Theoretically speaking, then, one can imagine that Russia might be happy to leave Novorossiya on its own (perhaps under the de facto control of some of the Moscow-friendly oligarchs who already control a disproportionate share of eastern Ukrainian industry). In any case, it's not only the gun-toting "little green men" in eastern Ukraine who seem to be keen on the idea. Earlier this week, pro-Russian activists announced the creation of an "Odessa Republic," potentially a first step toward realizing the Novorossiya idea. So far, though, this new entity remains more a creature of the Internet than a political reality. Read the rest on FP
Please do keep using the N word, it makes it easier to see which post(er)s aren't worth reading.
Do you even research what you post ? Try to find at least what Durov said about his reasons of selling his VK shares. I believe his statement was expressing the idea that he doesn't want to own anything , and VK shares was last thing that was holding him in this desire, if you don't know him, he got quite a...i dont know a word, a philosophy of life that judges any belongings, in other words he owns no car, no house, nothing, so as i said that was the reaosn, he openly said. And that he sold his shares to his friend( his words, quoting again). Its quite obvious that the ideas of your posts and links stays the same, try looking through a bit more and examining more carefully content. Also try find more info on Durov to confirm that his words are not a result of any threat. A guy who doesn't wanna own anything , have no reason to lie.
On April 22 2014 04:06 nunez wrote: you're really rose-paiting for these nazis gorsameth. why is that?
you are suggesting that the russian annexation of crimea was unprovoked?
you are really suggesting that the russian annexation of crimea was provoked?
i guess if one considers ukraine's sovereignty to be subordinate to what russia wants... but in that case why can't any other country be that way as well towards weaker countries
EPT
But after a while it gets boring and I just ignore there posts. 
