Ukraine Crisis - Page 256

On March 10 2014 08:11 Monsen wrote:
Now I'll be damned if I'm going to get into this propaganda clusterfuck but can anyone explain to me why the most vehement putin supporters in this thread are all serbian?
I mean I get that they're angry at the west for not being allowed to genocide all over the balkans but man, way to hold a grudge.

Serbian Fighters Help 'Russian Brothers' in Crimea
A group of Serbian volunteers, self-styled members of the Chetnik movement, has arrived in the Crimean port of Sevastopol on a mission to support the Russian side in the disputed Ukrainian region.
“Our aim is to support the Russian people in the name of the Serbian people,” a Serbian volunteer named Milutin Malisic said.

“We are representing Chetnik movement, which is similar to the Russian Cossacks,” he told the Russian agency Itar Tass.

Malisic, who says his particular group of fighters is called "the Wolves", says they arrived in Crimea on the invitation of Russian fighters - and wanted to repay the Russians for their support for Serbia in the Balkan wars of the 1990s.

“During the wars in Yugoslavia, a lot of volunteers fought on the Serbian side, so we, as their brothers, have decided to help them. That is why we are here,” Malisic continued.

It is not clear how many Serbs have headed for Crimea.

In a YouTube video the Serb fighter in traditional furry hat and beard can be seen addressing a crowd of supporters in Crimea with the aid of a Russian translator, talking of their common Slavic blood and Orthodox faith.

Serbian and Russian nationalists are closely allied - bound by a common Orthodox faith and a similar anti-Western outlook.

Serbian nationalists are not the only ones heading for Crimea in support of the Russian cause, however. Both tend to see the EU, NATO and the US and hostile to their national interests.

All over Russia itself volunteers are being recruited via social media. A group called the "Civil Defence of Ukraine" is asking all men aged 18-45 who are ready to travel to Ukraine to volunteer through VKontakte, the main Russian-language social network.

The page was set up just over a week ago and has more than 7,000 followers. It includes an online form calling for recruits and urges male volunteers to cross the border and offer what it calls "moral support" to Russians whom they believe are now at risk following the recent coup in Kiev.

The Crimea, located on the northern coast of the Black Sea, is currently the subject of a stand-off between Russia and Ukraine, which accuses Russia of occuping the region.

Most locals in Crimea are ethnic Russians, and many say it was wrong of the former Soviet authorities to transfer Crimea from Russia to Ukraine in 1954.

On March 10 2014 08:11 Monsen wrote:
Now I'll be damned if I'm going to get into this propaganda clusterfuck but can anyone explain to me why the most vehement putin supporters in this thread are all serbian?
I mean I get that they're angry at the west for not being allowed to genocide all over the balkans but man, way to hold a grudge.

On March 10 2014 08:23 Saryph wrote:


Source



The image above is one I grabbed from a youtube video of the Serbs speaking in Crimea that can be found in the link above.

On March 10 2014 09:07 Monsen wrote:
Thanks for the info guys, that clears up a lot of things.
+ Show Spoiler +

On March 10 2014 08:23 Saryph wrote:


Source



The image above is one I grabbed from a youtube video of the Serbs speaking in Crimea that can be found in the link above.

On March 10 2014 08:36 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:

I think what boggles my mind just as much is how the Americans are extremely chill compared to the Baltic and Ukrainian-descended people in this thread haha. History of these countries with USSR aside, usually Americans are pretty intense (probably the most intense) about beating the anti-Mideast and anti-Russia drums, but admittedly, many Americans on TL are pretty chill. Like Saryph's post points out though, sentiment among many Serbs is positive about Russia (which is nothing new btw).

Due to the post-Communist era, religion is a cool thing again, so Orthodoxy and Slavic/Orthodox historical ties are very meaningful things to many Eastern Orthodox people, even between Russians and Ukrainians (hence the general feeling of confusion in both countries). Meanwhile, opposite to Serbs and others in sentiments to Russia are Baltic people, especially due to earlier Soviet history. Not to mention Baltic people (at least in Lithuania and Latvia) are mostly Catholic or Lutheran, and historically even as far back as the Middle Ages, had problems with Russia. The famous German and Lithuanian invasion of Novgorod is one such example. Many people think this is a phenomenon that goes back 20 years or even 70 years, but it goes back for centuries. The worst issue overall on both sides is that people refer to a past where circumstances were radically different rather than the present. These matters are among the primary reasons for when countries have poor relations in the present day.


Also, please don't make a ridiculous comment like that about Serbians or joke about genocide like that. It's like me making just as ridiculous a comment that Germans have no sense of humor because they're mad they aren't allowed to kill more Jews and Slavs anymore (obviously no one in Germany has such an intention today as far as I'm aware).

Путин на такую реакцию и рассчитывает. Возможно, он считает, что предупредил коллег достаточно: о том, что элите пора национализироваться, было сказано не раз. Некоторые запреты, впрочем легко избегаемые, существуют и на уровне закона, например запрет госслужащим иметь счета в зарубежных банках. Но Путин и его «партия бескорыстных» (имена подставьте сами), конечно, не рассчитывают на законы. Они рассчитывают на страх.

Putin is expecting the Western reaction. Its possible, he thinks, that to warn his colleagues: elites have been repeatedly warned that its time for them to become national ones(no more hiding stuff abroad). Some of the new laws, easily avoided so far, exist on the level of laws, for example forbidding government employees from owning foreign bank accounts. But Putin isnt depending on these laws, he is depending on fear.

Если то, что делает Путин сейчас, не блеф, то это будет иметь огромные последствия для всей системы власти в России и ее взаимодействия с миром. Это будет означать, что Путин сделал какой-то важный выбор. Это выбор между привлечением капитала и его мобилизацией, что в пределе может означать выбор между рыночной и административно-командной экономикой, между разговором и принуждением, между естественными процессами и форсированными: не меньше ручного управления, а больше.

If what Putin is doing right now isnt a bluff, this will have huge repercussions for the whole system of power in Russia and its relationship with the world. It will mean that Putin has made a major selection. This choice between inviting capital and mobilizing it from abroad, a choice between market economics and administrative-command economics, between conversation and force, between real processes and force, not less control levers but more.

There is no indication, though, that the internet has done much to change people’s minds about Ukraine’s revolution; it seems instead to intensify the opinions people already hold. If you put the word ‘Maidan 1 December’ in Cyrillic in Google’s video search box, you get clips of stirring calls to revolution from radicalised moderates, a vast peaceful crowd singing the Ukrainian national anthem, Ukrainian revolutionary rap, a video of a savage Rodney King-style assault by Ukrainian policemen on a defenceless civilian, and as much more in the same vein as your eyes can bear. If you replace ‘Maidan’ with ‘Banderovtsy’, the catch-all term opponents of the revolution use to refer to its activists (after Stepan Bandera, the Ukrainian nationalist leader who tried to use Nazi backing to create a Ukrainian state in the 1940s), you get a different set of clips, reinforcing your pre-existing view that fascist bully-boys are taking over Ukraine. ‘How They’re Turning the Schoolkids of Lviv into Future Fascists,’ is there, as is ‘Banderovtsy Wipe Their Feet on the Soviet Flag’; there is film of people who say they were beaten by ‘Banderovtsy’ in Kiev for wearing the orange and black St George’s ribbon, the symbol of Soviet victory in the Second World War, and film of actual young Banderovtsy marching through the Ukrainian capital.


When Putin spoke of ‘chaos’ in Kiev and Ukraine as a whole, in his press conference a few days after the Crimean invasion, he must have realised that his foreign audience, as well as the citizens of Kiev and all the people of Ukraine who favoured the revolution, knew there was no chaos. His audience were those who both believed and wanted to believe the ‘Banderite’ revolution had brought anarchy: neo-Soviets on both sides of the border who yearn for an enlarged Russophone space – socially conservative, militarily strong, inheritors of the cherished myths, martyrs and achievements of imperial and Soviet times – but who nonetheless don’t feel bound by the old Soviet restrictions on travel, Orthodox Christian piety or consumerism.

Corruption. Not Bandera, not Russia, not Europe – corruption. I asked the political scientist Olexiy Haran whether there might not be some advantage to Ukraine in a Russian takeover of Crimea, in the sense that it had the potential to unite the country. ‘Cynically, we can survive without Crimea; it might even be better from the voting point of view,’ he said. ‘The problem is the Crimean Tatars. They don’t want to go to Russia.’ Besides, he pointed out, there was another problem: a country that needs to change can’t be united. Somebody has to yield. It should have been the handful of extremely wealthy men who treat politics as a branch of business – the oligarchs. ‘Without Russian pressure, we would have put pressure on the oligarchs,’ he said. ‘With Russian pressure, we find ourselves having to make compromises with them in order to keep the country whole.’

In the course of our conversation I found out something interesting about Skoropadsky. He’s not Ukrainian: he’s a Russian, from Moscow, although he’s applied for Ukrainian citizenship. ‘I moved here after the Orange Revolution, because Ukraine still has the chance to become a European state, and Russia is a totalitarian police state,’ he said. ‘It’s advantageous to Russian propaganda to present us as fascists and terrorists. The Putin regime is very frightened about what’s happened here.’

On March 10 2014 17:36 Go0g3n wrote:
I've been reading some rather worrying things on certain russian forums (note: these are heavily pro-russian and even pro-syrian (pro-Assad), so take it with a large grain of salt, however, they are filled with russians and ukrainians, mostly ex-military:

1. Ukraine is building up military on the crimean border, pretty much everything that is still functioning. Today is the last day of preparation and maintnance. Link #2 (the note in the bottom left says to disregard the date)
2. Military action will be aimed at preventing the crimean referreundum, however, invasion of the major cities is unlikely.
3, American military personnel flew into the Ukraine and setup the "central command post" in the American embassy. (Note: this is pretty much the exact same thing was reported during the Georgian war)
4. The operation may begin as early as Match 11th or 12th, probably while the current prime minister is visiting the USA.

And so on...

On March 10 2014 13:48 Roman666 wrote:


That one is good too, from yesterday at Crimea, "the poor Russians defending themselves with bats":

https://twitter.com/Ukrainolution/statuses/442783134262632448

The Ribbon of St George or St. George's Ribbon (Russian: георгиевская ленточка georgievskaya lentochka) constitutes one of the most recognised and respected symbols of military valour in modern Russia. It is widely associated with the commemoration of World War II and especially with the units who were awarded the collective Guard battle honours during the conflict. The ribbon consists of a black and orange bicolour pattern, with three black and two orange stripes. Its origins lay back in the times of the Russian Empire.

On March 10 2014 09:14 Liman wrote:

monsen you should really know more about serbian people before posting shit like that.
you are very primitive

as for those five idiots who left to crimea from serbia,they are just that,idiots.
they are just loudmouths who never seen combat and never will.

im not pro russian or pro western,just telling my point of view

RIGA, Latvia—Russian Ambassador Aleksandr Veshnyakov created a new wave of concern in Latvia with recent remarks saying it may soon become easier for ethnic Russians in Latvia to obtain Russian citizenship.

Mr. Veshnyakov told Latvian Radio 4, a Russian-language public broadcasting channel, that proposed legislation in Russia would allow granting Russian citizenship to ethnic Russians in Latvia to "save the Latvian noncitizens out of poverty by giving them citizenship and a pension without having to stay in Russia." Russians constitute 27.6% of Latvia's population of 2 million, the largest ethnic group among the minorities living in Latvia.
Source.

On March 10 2014 17:57 Liman wrote:

Just because some idiot is wearing it doesnt make it a fashist symbol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_of_Saint_George

i say wow to the amount of shit in this thread