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On March 10 2014 17:36 Go0g3n wrote:I've been reading some rather worrying things on certain Russian forums (note: these are heavily pro-Russian and even pro-Syrian (pro-Assad), so take it with a large grain of salt, however, they are filled with Russians and Ukrainians, mostly ex-military: 1. Ukraine is building up military on the Crimean border, pretty much everything that is still functioning. Today is the last day of preparation and maintenance. Link #2 (the note in the bottom left says to disregard the date)2. Military action will be aimed at preventing the Crimean referendum; however, invasion of the major cities is unlikely. 3, American military personnel flew into the Ukraine and setup the "central command post" in the American embassy. (Note: this is pretty much the exact same thing was reported during the Georgian war) 4. The operation may begin as early as Match 11th or 12th, probably while the current prime minister is visiting the USA. And so on...
Thank you for this information. If there is any legitimacy to this, the Ukrainian military will make a move, and it will be a fatal one both military and politically. Especially politically because it will provide Putin's administration with any "justification" for further action (whatever that would entail). I hope your forum mates on those forums are getting false data on these things, because this is very scary news. Though if I've learned anything about ex-military guys, they always seem to have a lot of insider information.
On March 10 2014 09:58 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2014 08:36 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On March 10 2014 08:11 Monsen wrote:
Now I'll be damned if I'm going to get into this propaganda clusterfuck but can anyone explain to me why the most vehement putin supporters in this thread are all serbian?
I mean I get that they're angry at the west for not being allowed to genocide all over the balkans but man, way to hold a grudge. I think what boggles my mind just as much is how the Americans are extremely chill compared to the Baltic and Ukrainian-descended people in this thread haha. History of these countries with USSR aside, usually Americans are pretty intense (probably the most intense) about beating the anti-Mideast and anti-Russia drums, but admittedly, many Americans on TL are pretty chill. Like Saryph's post points out though, sentiment among many Serbs is positive about Russia (which is nothing new btw). Due to the post-Communist era, religion is a cool thing again, so Orthodoxy and Slavic/Orthodox historical ties are very meaningful things to many Eastern Orthodox people, even between Russians and Ukrainians (hence the general feeling of confusion in both countries). Meanwhile, opposite to Serbs and others in sentiments to Russia are Baltic people, especially due to earlier Soviet history. Not to mention Baltic people (at least in Lithuania and Latvia) are mostly Catholic or Lutheran, and historically even as far back as the Middle Ages, had problems with Russia. The famous German and Lithuanian invasion of Novgorod is one such example. Many people think this is a phenomenon that goes back 20 years or even 70 years, but it goes back for centuries. The worst issue overall on both sides is that people refer to a past where circumstances were radically different rather than the present. These matters are among the primary reasons for when countries have poor relations in the present day. Also, please don't make a ridiculous comment like that about Serbians or joke about genocide like that. It's like me making just as ridiculous a comment that Germans have no sense of humor because they're mad they aren't allowed to kill more Jews and Slavs anymore (obviously no one in Germany has such an intention today as far as I'm aware). Are we looking at the same thread? You have an American so mad over someone calling the maiden protesters fascists he repeated the same thing 3-5 times per page for 150 pages.
I didn't realize he was American. My mistake.
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On March 10 2014 18:36 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2014 17:57 Liman wrote:On March 10 2014 13:48 Roman666 wrote:
That one is good too, from yesterday at Crimea, "the poor Russians defending themselves with bats":
Just because some idiot is wearing it doesnt make it a fashist symbol. The Ribbon of St George or St. George's Ribbon (Russian: георгиевская ленточка georgievskaya lentochka) constitutes one of the most recognised and respected symbols of military valour in modern Russia. It is widely associated with the commemoration of World War II and especially with the units who were awarded the collective Guard battle honours during the conflict. The ribbon consists of a black and orange bicolour pattern, with three black and two orange stripes. Its origins lay back in the times of the Russian Empire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_of_Saint_Georgei say wow to the amount of shit in this thread Yes, you are perfectly correct that the Ribbon is not a fascist symbol per se. So were the swastika and celtic cross until some idiots decided to use them as their symbols. I say wow to the amount of apologists of Russian actions in Crimea in this thread.
I think you would find that numbers in this thread are skewed much more toward the anti-Russia side than general populations are.
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On March 10 2014 18:13 Ghanburighan wrote:
More evidence that Germany is moving towards taking a harder line:
I may remember incorrectly, but wasn't there something like that during the last presidential elections in the USA where the USA forbid international observers to "question their elections"!?
So why exactly don't we believe in true and free elections on Crimea?
Germany is quite important in all this, but I think that Leyen or Steinmeier are "just there" for some "nice" quotes. Merkel will have to do the important parts!
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On March 10 2014 18:47 Geisterkarle wrote:I may remember incorrectly, but wasn't there something like that during the last presidential elections in the USA where the USA forbid international observers to "question their elections"!? So why exactly don't we believe in true and free elections on Crimea? Germany is quite important in all this, but I think that Leyen or Steinmeier are "just there" for some "nice" quotes. Merkel will have to do the important parts!
I don't know what you have heard but the OSCE observes US elections: Source.
We don't believe in the Crimean election because:
a) Armed troops of another country are there to influence the result (against international law!),
b) The elections haven't been given enough time,
c) There are reports of tampering (access to media, election officials, etc),
d) The vote in the Crimean parliament was behind closed doors, with some MP's reporting that they were not allowed in,
e) The Ukrainian supreme court judged the elections illegal,
f) it's bloody well being organized by Putin.
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Russian Federation410 Posts
More on the Military buildup:
1. Ukrainian military #1 and a video., both from March 9th.
2. Russian military (vids): #1, #2, #3.
I've noticed, that all of these and older vids feature artillery, service vehicles and personnel vehicles. I am surprised by the lack of tanks, and an abundance of BMP 2s, IMO, indicating the necessity to rapidly move forces.
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On March 10 2014 18:36 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2014 17:57 Liman wrote:Just because some idiot is wearing it doesnt make it a fashist symbol. The Ribbon of St George or St. George's Ribbon (Russian: георгиевская ленточка georgievskaya lentochka) constitutes one of the most recognised and respected symbols of military valour in modern Russia. It is widely associated with the commemoration of World War II and especially with the units who were awarded the collective Guard battle honours during the conflict. The ribbon consists of a black and orange bicolour pattern, with three black and two orange stripes. Its origins lay back in the times of the Russian Empire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_of_Saint_Georgei say wow to the amount of shit in this thread Yes, you are perfectly correct that the Ribbon is not a fascist symbol per se. So were the swastika and celtic cross until some idiots decided to use them as their symbols. I say wow to the amount of apologists of Russian actions in Crimea in this thread.
hahaha nice fact twisting
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On March 10 2014 19:02 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2014 18:47 Geisterkarle wrote:I may remember incorrectly, but wasn't there something like that during the last presidential elections in the USA where the USA forbid international observers to "question their elections"!? So why exactly don't we believe in true and free elections on Crimea? Germany is quite important in all this, but I think that Leyen or Steinmeier are "just there" for some "nice" quotes. Merkel will have to do the important parts! I don't know what you have heard but the OSCE observes US elections: Source..
They should look at other elections too...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_stagnation_in_the_United_States
Those percentages are better than most in Russia!
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On March 10 2014 19:23 Liman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2014 18:36 Roman666 wrote:On March 10 2014 17:57 Liman wrote:Just because some idiot is wearing it doesnt make it a fashist symbol. The Ribbon of St George or St. George's Ribbon (Russian: георгиевская ленточка georgievskaya lentochka) constitutes one of the most recognised and respected symbols of military valour in modern Russia. It is widely associated with the commemoration of World War II and especially with the units who were awarded the collective Guard battle honours during the conflict. The ribbon consists of a black and orange bicolour pattern, with three black and two orange stripes. Its origins lay back in the times of the Russian Empire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_of_Saint_Georgei say wow to the amount of shit in this thread Yes, you are perfectly correct that the Ribbon is not a fascist symbol per se. So were the swastika and celtic cross until some idiots decided to use them as their symbols. I say wow to the amount of apologists of Russian actions in Crimea in this thread. hahaha nice fact twisting
In what way could you possible construe his post as fact twisting?
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On March 10 2014 18:46 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2014 18:36 Roman666 wrote:On March 10 2014 17:57 Liman wrote:Just because some idiot is wearing it doesnt make it a fashist symbol. The Ribbon of St George or St. George's Ribbon (Russian: георгиевская ленточка georgievskaya lentochka) constitutes one of the most recognised and respected symbols of military valour in modern Russia. It is widely associated with the commemoration of World War II and especially with the units who were awarded the collective Guard battle honours during the conflict. The ribbon consists of a black and orange bicolour pattern, with three black and two orange stripes. Its origins lay back in the times of the Russian Empire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_of_Saint_Georgei say wow to the amount of shit in this thread Yes, you are perfectly correct that the Ribbon is not a fascist symbol per se. So were the swastika and celtic cross until some idiots decided to use them as their symbols. I say wow to the amount of apologists of Russian actions in Crimea in this thread. I think you would find that numbers in this thread are skewed much more toward the anti-Russia side than general populations are.
IMHO, even one of them is one too much. There is no amount of words that would justify what Russia is currently doing in Crimea.
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On March 10 2014 20:10 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2014 18:46 mcc wrote:On March 10 2014 18:36 Roman666 wrote:On March 10 2014 17:57 Liman wrote:Just because some idiot is wearing it doesnt make it a fashist symbol. The Ribbon of St George or St. George's Ribbon (Russian: георгиевская ленточка georgievskaya lentochka) constitutes one of the most recognised and respected symbols of military valour in modern Russia. It is widely associated with the commemoration of World War II and especially with the units who were awarded the collective Guard battle honours during the conflict. The ribbon consists of a black and orange bicolour pattern, with three black and two orange stripes. Its origins lay back in the times of the Russian Empire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_of_Saint_Georgei say wow to the amount of shit in this thread Yes, you are perfectly correct that the Ribbon is not a fascist symbol per se. So were the swastika and celtic cross until some idiots decided to use them as their symbols. I say wow to the amount of apologists of Russian actions in Crimea in this thread. I think you would find that numbers in this thread are skewed much more toward the anti-Russia side than general populations are. IMHO, even one of them is one too much. There is no amount of words that would justify what Russia is currently doing in Crimea.
A lot of people see this as another West vs Russia confrontation and consider Ukraine failed state anyway. This attitude is quite prevalent and then of course it is no surprise that governments do PR moves at best, but nothing substantial as their population is not really supporting any strong anti-Russian moves.
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On March 10 2014 19:03 Go0g3n wrote:More on the Military buildup: 1. Ukrainian military #1 and a video., both from March 9th. 2. Russian military (vids): #1, #2, #3. I've noticed, that all of these and older vids feature artillery, service vehicles and personnel vehicles. I am surprised by the lack of tanks, and an abundance of BMP 2s, IMO, indicating the necessity to rapidly move forces.
Even more so than BMP's, the number of BTR 60-90's on both sides in the videos(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTR-60) is pretty insane. You almost see more of the armored personnel carriers than you do trucks.
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WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Barack Obama and Chinese President Xi Jinping (shee jihn-peeng) have agreed on the importance of upholding Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity. Source.
The Chinese position is so very confusing.
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Chinese position is on the side of winning.
there is nothing to gain from choosing sides now and everything to gain by playing both sides.
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Every statement I have seen from China has claimed that Ukraine's territorial integrity is important/key.
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Nothing new.
Intersting view from "the other side":
http://m-simonyan.livejournal.com/63637.html
(scroll down for English version)
Money Quote:
"These are the people who were the first to tell their country about the Occupy movement, who were detained at the protest rallies, handcuffed for hours and then tried in court for doing their job."
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
who cares what china publicly says pls. is there money or soemthing about keeping taiwan/tibet etc in the issue? if not they don't even care
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EPT
