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On March 03 2014 22:50 Crushinator wrote:
I find myself having alot of sympathy for Russia, which is strange for me. From what I understand Ukraine does not have a better claim on Crimea than Russia does, Crimea was handed to Ukraine with the understanding that Ukraine was a Russian allied state and Crimea would be autonomous. Now Crimea isn't autonomous, the majority of the population is seperatist and ethnic Russian, and Ukraine is turning away from Russia. The issue of the Crimean tartars is a bit difficult though.
People have already corrected you about autonomy, so I won't repeat it. I want to explain why it makes sense to have Crimea as a part of Ukraine.
Crimea does not have sources of fresh water. Not any major ones at least. They get all their fresh water from a mainland Ukraine, by a channel from the Dnipro river. They also import more than 80% of their electric power from mainland Ukraine.
They don't have any major industry there and their economy is highly dependent on tourism. They mostly live on dotations during the winter season or other times when the conditions are adverse to tourism. Using large part of their territory for military purposes or being occupied by military like now is a very bad thing for financial situation of people who live there.
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On March 03 2014 23:40 MyrMindservant wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 22:50 Crushinator wrote:
I find myself having alot of sympathy for Russia, which is strange for me. From what I understand Ukraine does not have a better claim on Crimea than Russia does, Crimea was handed to Ukraine with the understanding that Ukraine was a Russian allied state and Crimea would be autonomous. Now Crimea isn't autonomous, the majority of the population is seperatist and ethnic Russian, and Ukraine is turning away from Russia. The issue of the Crimean tartars is a bit difficult though. People have already corrected you about autonomy, so I won't repeat it. I want to explain why it makes sense to have Crimea as a part of Ukraine. Crimea does not have sources of fresh water. Not any major ones at least. They get all their fresh water from a mainland Ukraine, by a channel from the Dnipro river. They also import more than 80% of their electric power from mainland Ukraine. They don't have any major industry there and their economy is highly dependent on tourism. They mostly live on dotations during the winter season or other times when the conditions are adverse to tourism. Using large part of their territory for military purposes or being occupied by military like now is a very bad thing for financial situation of people who live there.
Pretty much changed my mind at this point, thanks.
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WhiteRa is against russians and Bly is thinking to leave Ukraine until situation is solved. How about other progamers from Ukraine?
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On March 03 2014 23:55 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
WhiteRa is against russians and Bly is thinking to leave Ukraine until situation is solved. How about other progamers from Ukraine?
Xboct lives in Crimea, Dendi and Funn1k live in western provinces. :3
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On March 03 2014 23:30 BeaTeR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 23:10 darkness wrote:
I think White-Ra also writes in Russian. I don't remember any authentic Ukrainian from him. whitera is from odessa, this city is pro-russian. there are a lot of people of various nationalities living in odessa, and everyone is proud to be a part of such an international society. If you meet someone who speaks ukrainian in Odessa, 99% he came from west regions of the country.
Odessa is Russian speaking, but not pro-russian in a political or ethnical sense. It is rather neutral when it comes to politics and as you have said there are a lot of various nationalities living there.
Here is a translation of an interview with White-Ra:
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1z3bpy/esport_and_politics_a_case_study_on_whitera_and/
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On March 03 2014 23:40 MyrMindservant wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 22:50 Crushinator wrote:
I find myself having alot of sympathy for Russia, which is strange for me. From what I understand Ukraine does not have a better claim on Crimea than Russia does, Crimea was handed to Ukraine with the understanding that Ukraine was a Russian allied state and Crimea would be autonomous. Now Crimea isn't autonomous, the majority of the population is seperatist and ethnic Russian, and Ukraine is turning away from Russia. The issue of the Crimean tartars is a bit difficult though. People have already corrected you about autonomy, so I won't repeat it. I want to explain why it makes sense to have Crimea as a part of Ukraine. Crimea does not have sources of fresh water. Not any major ones at least. They get all their fresh water from a mainland Ukraine, by a channel from the Dnipro river. They also import more than 80% of their electric power from mainland Ukraine. They don't have any major industry there and their economy is highly dependent on tourism. They mostly live on dotations during the winter season or other times when the conditions are adverse to tourism. Using large part of their territory for military purposes or being occupied by military like now is a very bad thing for financial situation of people who live there.
Are you saying that Russia should just annex whole Ukraine as they are dependent on Russia for gas and thus it would make sense to have Ukraine as part of Russia ? 
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On March 03 2014 23:40 MyrMindservant wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 22:50 Crushinator wrote:
I find myself having alot of sympathy for Russia, which is strange for me. From what I understand Ukraine does not have a better claim on Crimea than Russia does, Crimea was handed to Ukraine with the understanding that Ukraine was a Russian allied state and Crimea would be autonomous. Now Crimea isn't autonomous, the majority of the population is seperatist and ethnic Russian, and Ukraine is turning away from Russia. The issue of the Crimean tartars is a bit difficult though. People have already corrected you about autonomy, so I won't repeat it. I want to explain why it makes sense to have Crimea as a part of Ukraine. Crimea does not have sources of fresh water. Not any major ones at least. They get all their fresh water from a mainland Ukraine, by a channel from the Dnipro river. They also import more than 80% of their electric power from mainland Ukraine. They don't have any major industry there and their economy is highly dependent on tourism. They mostly live on dotations during the winter season or other times when the conditions are adverse to tourism. Using large part of their territory for military purposes or being occupied by military like now is a very bad thing for financial situation of people who live there.
What does it matter where they get their water and electricity from? That reasoning is wrong on so many levels!
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On March 03 2014 23:58 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 23:55 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
WhiteRa is against russians and Bly is thinking to leave Ukraine until situation is solved. How about other progamers from Ukraine? Xboct lives in Crimea, Dendi and Funn1k live in western provinces. :3
Hvost is from Yalta (southern Crimea), but he currently lives in Kiev as far as I know. Dendi is from Lviv, Funn1k is from Kharkiv.
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On March 04 2014 00:02 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 23:40 MyrMindservant wrote:On March 03 2014 22:50 Crushinator wrote:
I find myself having alot of sympathy for Russia, which is strange for me. From what I understand Ukraine does not have a better claim on Crimea than Russia does, Crimea was handed to Ukraine with the understanding that Ukraine was a Russian allied state and Crimea would be autonomous. Now Crimea isn't autonomous, the majority of the population is seperatist and ethnic Russian, and Ukraine is turning away from Russia. The issue of the Crimean tartars is a bit difficult though. People have already corrected you about autonomy, so I won't repeat it. I want to explain why it makes sense to have Crimea as a part of Ukraine. Crimea does not have sources of fresh water. Not any major ones at least. They get all their fresh water from a mainland Ukraine, by a channel from the Dnipro river. They also import more than 80% of their electric power from mainland Ukraine. They don't have any major industry there and their economy is highly dependent on tourism. They mostly live on dotations during the winter season or other times when the conditions are adverse to tourism. Using large part of their territory for military purposes or being occupied by military like now is a very bad thing for financial situation of people who live there. What does it matter where they get their water and electricity from? That reasoning is wrong on so many levels!
If Ukraine doesn't want to gift Crimea to Russia, what do you think Ukraine will do with the water and electricity it provides to the area? What will happen in response?
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On March 04 2014 00:08 ZeaL. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 00:02 Maenander wrote:On March 03 2014 23:40 MyrMindservant wrote:On March 03 2014 22:50 Crushinator wrote:
I find myself having alot of sympathy for Russia, which is strange for me. From what I understand Ukraine does not have a better claim on Crimea than Russia does, Crimea was handed to Ukraine with the understanding that Ukraine was a Russian allied state and Crimea would be autonomous. Now Crimea isn't autonomous, the majority of the population is seperatist and ethnic Russian, and Ukraine is turning away from Russia. The issue of the Crimean tartars is a bit difficult though. People have already corrected you about autonomy, so I won't repeat it. I want to explain why it makes sense to have Crimea as a part of Ukraine. Crimea does not have sources of fresh water. Not any major ones at least. They get all their fresh water from a mainland Ukraine, by a channel from the Dnipro river. They also import more than 80% of their electric power from mainland Ukraine. They don't have any major industry there and their economy is highly dependent on tourism. They mostly live on dotations during the winter season or other times when the conditions are adverse to tourism. Using large part of their territory for military purposes or being occupied by military like now is a very bad thing for financial situation of people who live there. What does it matter where they get their water and electricity from? That reasoning is wrong on so many levels! If Ukraine doesn't want to gift Crimea to Russia, what do you think Ukraine will do with the water and electricity it provides to the area? What will happen in response?
Nothing. Because the Ukraine is actually depending on Russian gas ...
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On March 04 2014 00:02 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 23:40 MyrMindservant wrote:On March 03 2014 22:50 Crushinator wrote:
I find myself having alot of sympathy for Russia, which is strange for me. From what I understand Ukraine does not have a better claim on Crimea than Russia does, Crimea was handed to Ukraine with the understanding that Ukraine was a Russian allied state and Crimea would be autonomous. Now Crimea isn't autonomous, the majority of the population is seperatist and ethnic Russian, and Ukraine is turning away from Russia. The issue of the Crimean tartars is a bit difficult though. People have already corrected you about autonomy, so I won't repeat it. I want to explain why it makes sense to have Crimea as a part of Ukraine. Crimea does not have sources of fresh water. Not any major ones at least. They get all their fresh water from a mainland Ukraine, by a channel from the Dnipro river. They also import more than 80% of their electric power from mainland Ukraine. They don't have any major industry there and their economy is highly dependent on tourism. They mostly live on dotations during the winter season or other times when the conditions are adverse to tourism. Using large part of their territory for military purposes or being occupied by military like now is a very bad thing for financial situation of people who live there. What does it matter where they get their water and electricity from? That reasoning is wrong on so many levels!
Wtf is people even thinking about? I've just explained why it probably was given to Ukraine in the first place.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Russia's fleet has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 03:00 GMT (+00:00) (4/3/14) to surrender or "face a storm", according to Interfax news agency.
The ultimatum, from the commander of Russia's Black Sea Fleet Alexander Vitko, has a base in Crimea where Russian forces are now in control.
According to the agency, it reads: "If they do not surrender before 5am (3am GMT) tomorrow, a real assault will be started against units and divisions of the armed forces across Crimea."
Source
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On March 04 2014 00:00 MyrMindservant wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 23:30 BeaTeR wrote:On March 03 2014 23:10 darkness wrote:
I think White-Ra also writes in Russian. I don't remember any authentic Ukrainian from him. whitera is from odessa, this city is pro-russian. there are a lot of people of various nationalities living in odessa, and everyone is proud to be a part of such an international society. If you meet someone who speaks ukrainian in Odessa, 99% he came from west regions of the country. Odessa is Russian speaking, but not pro-russian in a political or ethnical sense. It is rather neutral when it comes to politics and as you have said there are a lot of various nationalities living there. Here is a translation of an interview with White-Ra: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1z3bpy/esport_and_politics_a_case_study_on_whitera_and/
Yanukovich being an awful president made them politically neutral i guess 
People of Odessa were supporting him and his party back in 2004 when the "Orange Revolution" occured. They were hating all this eu and nato stuff back then. I remember a couple of buses with men from west ukraine came to Odessa and tried to remove the monument of Ekaterina. They got beated by locals and were kicked out of the city. Can't say what they are thinking now about russia. But some years ago people prefered russians to be their allies rather than EU.
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On March 04 2014 00:18 Pandemona wrote:Russia's fleet has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 03:00 GMT (+00:00) to surrender or "face a storm", according to Interfax news agency.
Today? If so that deadline has already passed.
Edit:Nevermind You clarified.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On March 04 2014 00:22 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 00:18 Pandemona wrote:Russia's fleet has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 03:00 GMT (+00:00) to surrender or "face a storm", according to Interfax news agency. Today? If so that deadline has already passed.
No 4th March Europe
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Donetsk administrative building being occupied by pro-russian demonstrators.
sources
Not unexpected if Russia sieze the opportunity to claim control of The rest of the eastern provinces. While it was feared that Ukraine might break after the december russian deal and the russian invation was predicted, but very few westerners thought Putin would do what he is doing.
source
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On March 04 2014 00:11 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2014 00:08 ZeaL. wrote:On March 04 2014 00:02 Maenander wrote:On March 03 2014 23:40 MyrMindservant wrote:On March 03 2014 22:50 Crushinator wrote:
I find myself having alot of sympathy for Russia, which is strange for me. From what I understand Ukraine does not have a better claim on Crimea than Russia does, Crimea was handed to Ukraine with the understanding that Ukraine was a Russian allied state and Crimea would be autonomous. Now Crimea isn't autonomous, the majority of the population is seperatist and ethnic Russian, and Ukraine is turning away from Russia. The issue of the Crimean tartars is a bit difficult though. People have already corrected you about autonomy, so I won't repeat it. I want to explain why it makes sense to have Crimea as a part of Ukraine. Crimea does not have sources of fresh water. Not any major ones at least. They get all their fresh water from a mainland Ukraine, by a channel from the Dnipro river. They also import more than 80% of their electric power from mainland Ukraine. They don't have any major industry there and their economy is highly dependent on tourism. They mostly live on dotations during the winter season or other times when the conditions are adverse to tourism. Using large part of their territory for military purposes or being occupied by military like now is a very bad thing for financial situation of people who live there. What does it matter where they get their water and electricity from? That reasoning is wrong on so many levels! If Ukraine doesn't want to gift Crimea to Russia, what do you think Ukraine will do with the water and electricity it provides to the area? What will happen in response? Nothing. Because the Ukraine is actually depending on Russian gas ...
And who controls half of the pipes to Europe? It's been a relatively mild winter and the EU isn't as reliant on Russian gas as it was a few years ago.
Anyways, the original point was that Crimea doesn't really produce anything of value besides being a strategic location.
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"Russia deploys 3500 troops and heavy equipment on Batlic coast in Kaliningrad Oblat near Polish and Lithuanian borders"
lmao where u at NATO?
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On March 04 2014 00:37 whiteLotus wrote:
"Russia deploys 3500 troops and heavy equipment on Batlic coast in Kaliningrad Oblat near Polish and Lithuanian borders"
lmao where u at NATO?
Probably soon doing the same ?
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EPT
