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Well.. it's certainly impressive how many people here choose their friendships based on political similarities. Though it does make sense in context of that "us vs them" mentality being cultivated.
Guess Mr. Blow is just one of many rather than some bizarre outlier. I did not know that.
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if i had a friend who still vocally and strongly supported trump at this point i'd probably ditch them tbh. some of the folks i saw over thanksgiving supported him last year, but the 15 minutes exception to no politics featured a "holy shit he actually sucks" which was good.
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On November 28 2017 01:37 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 01:08 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:53 Gahlo wrote:On November 28 2017 00:37 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:11 Gahlo wrote:On November 27 2017 23:40 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:On November 27 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:
Bummer to hear that from a columnist I actually think is pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician. At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world. If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that. Let me get this straight: You side with the person breaking personal relationships over politics and want to say the other side forced you to adopt such an idiotic stance? I don’t care if you want to blame Trump, Nazis, or lizard people for the status quo, I just thought you had more moral agency than this. Aren't you the person that's been saying that Trump is The Left's fault and been hand waiving personal responsibility of people that voted for him? So this was all in reaction to the tweet by a NYT columnist. I wonder if you have a response to that tweet. Agree/disagree? You can’t be friends with people of an opposing political opinion if it involves supporting Trump? I'm not going to disparage people on how they choose their friends, that's up to them. When it comes to my republican friends, we just don't talk politics generally. You talk about your Republican friends like you still intend to keep them as friends. How can you say this when Trump is literally so bad? I’ve just heard some very passionate speeches about genocide and racism in this very forum, but I’m a Republican with many Democrat friends and not the reverse. Do you deny Trump is out to hurt you? Do you think your friends are evil or somewhat racist if they support him in some areas? Where do you get the notion that I agree that it's a necessity? And yes, by Trump's intention to repeal Obamacase I stand to be unable to afford health insurance.
I'm implying that you've seen the arguments against and might have a response. I don't believe my Hillary-supporting friends literally seek my life, so I'm a little removed from understanding your point of view. I'll repeat: You've seen people here call Trump supporters supporters of racism and genocide. Are you of the same opinion and do you think the friends you're keeping are also evil, or racist, or other?
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On November 28 2017 01:46 ticklishmusic wrote:
if i had a friend who still vocally and strongly supported trump at this point i'd probably ditch them tbh. some of the folks i saw over thanksgiving supported him last year, but the 15 minutes exception to no politics featured a "holy shit he actually sucks" which was good.
This is very tailored to people who identify that way when asked. That's why you get on social media and outright declare we can't be friends. Find out which of your friends are Trump supporters and seek to break that friendship because "we don't have anything to talk about and we can't be friends." He would've gotten yawns if he voiced repulsion at MAGA-everything, down with the cucks, strong vocal Trump supporters.
This one struck a nerve. You've seen the backlash when I said that's a stupid thing to break a friendship over.
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On November 28 2017 01:24 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:49 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:41 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On November 28 2017 00:21 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:06 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On November 27 2017 23:45 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 15:23 Wulfey_LA wrote:On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:
[quote]
I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician.
At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world.
If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that. Non-exhaustive List of those responsible for national disunity: Liberals The Left Colleges The Media The Democrats The Swamp The Cities Ungrateful Minorities Black NFL Players The Intelligence Agencies Anyone living near the coasts Athiests Muslims Mexicans #NeverTrump Closet Trump supporters Elected Republican Legislators who can't pass the President's bills Exhaustive List of those who are upholding national unity and decency in this divisive times: President Trump Open, Proud, and Clapping Trump supporters It’s a trying political time and men and women of sense will debate on the issues and actions. Losers and trolls will continue to play tribal games and claim their opponents are racist douchebags. There’s still another team? Why, they must hate brown people or something! Surely the only logical thing to do is ruin friendships over politics! Yes, that’s the stuff! Maybe they aren't racist, but they openly and knowingly support and vote for someone who vocally is, and has shown time and again that racism will be prevalent in how they conduct themselves in a position of power. Maybe they don't hate people who can't afford healthcare, but they openly and knowingly support and vote for someone who is trying to create a system in which those people will suffer. Maybe they don't hate education and those who provide it, but... Imagine you are on Survivor. Your team is all voting to choose a team leader, and someone says "if you make me leader, I'll repeatedly kick the s*** out of Danglars, and make survivor great again!" and your friend passionately pipes up with "hell yeah I'll vote for this guy! He isn't like all the other team leaders who don't get things done!" How will you feel and react? If you'd be fine with that, then that's damn stupid and the trust and goodwill one associates with any degree of friendship is terribly misplaced. Trump voters, by and large, might not have voted for his blatant racism etc, but to give a massive and arguably undeserved benefit of the doubt, they just didn't care. If someone just doesn't care about the damage their political positions and support does to me, why the hell would I consider them a friend? The same argument extends to basic decency and having moral expectations of those you closely associate with in general. That ones on you, and society is the worse for it. That's the dumbest response I've ever received on a message board in my life. Which is saying a lot. Me - "I don't want to give my friendship to someone literally actively supporting the means to the end of millions of people dying od completely preventable issues in some Randian genocide." You - "OMG no that's a bad thing, you dividing society!1!!" Society is worse for Trump even running for president, let alone winning. Society is worse for millions of people supporting him without giving a damn for the consequences. Society is not worse because I wouldn't trust the moral judgement of such people enough to give them the trust or benefit of friendship. Maybe it’s easier to imagine a country like an episode of “Survivor” for you, but not for me. “Literally Hitler” is outplayed and “literally genocide” is at least as backwards of a means of debate. Go talk a little more to the other side and stop these fantasies where your life is run by politics. can someone please quote the post from (I think?) Danglars a couple weeks ago arguing that people suffering, possibly dying from Obamacare blowing up will happen and that that's needed for the US to get a better system? I can't seem to find it Or am I mistaking him for xDaunt on that point?
I think that was xdaunt; it also makes more sense, as that kind of advanced planning is more likely from xdaunt.
as to the rest happening in the thread: the usual trolling nonsense from the usual suspects. nothing to see in the last several pages.
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On November 28 2017 01:26 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 01:20 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 01:11 Nebuchad wrote:On November 28 2017 01:04 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:48 Nebuchad wrote:On November 28 2017 00:45 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:34 Kickboxer wrote:
Losing friends over support of a candidate who actually won the election sounds like a totally non-divisive thing. Umm ... yeah. I really don't understand people who think they are making the world a better place by acting immature, confrontational and / or self-absorbed. It's really not how progress works, guys. Comparing Trump to the Golden Dawn? What the hell?
Here's a tip for you, if you possess any verbal intelligence and you think Trump is THAT BAD you should be able to slowly convince them to nudge closer to your position or at least accept it. What you are doing makes you appear brainwashed. He won the fucking election. All it takes is a rich white guy to justify “We can’t be friends anymore.” Imagine thinking that Donald Trump is a small leap. Hey, he got elected. Maybe realize that your fellow countrymen (in case of NYT columnist and some American posters here) did so and don’t cast your friends aside over it. There will be more elections in future. He was also a very natural successor to politics as practiced during the Obama regime  Your argument was portraying Trump as a small leap. "All it takes is a rich white guy" implies that there's nothing quite special about Trump support, you would have expected that more would have been needed, while the argument that has been presented to you up until now has been exactly the opposite: that there was something special about Trump support. Effectively what you have done here is ignore the arguments you've been given, treat your opposition as if it already agreed with you, and then conclude that your opposition is weird based on us all agreeing on what you have said. We haven't. I will say for the sake of honesty that I had this policy for the far right in Switzerland long before Trump, and our far right is nowhere as extreme as your right. But then again I'm not a liberal so that helps me with the distance too. Hoping Obama fails in his stated agenda is peanuts compared to saying you can't be friends with Trump supporters. Apparently, there is no standard here and there is only partisan politics. Why is that an answer to this post?
My argument, really my comment to Kickboxer, was that the left lacked standards. They bristled at a mild form of criticism compared to what came next. You missed the boat and excerpted a quote.
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On November 28 2017 01:45 LegalLord wrote:
Well.. it's certainly impressive how many people here choose their friendships based on political similarities. Though it does make sense in context of that "us vs them" mentality being cultivated.
Guess Mr. Blow is just one of many rather than some bizarre outlier. I did not know that.
i mean it’s a direct correlation to the strong identity and social politics of the time. i wouldn’t sooner call it causation before correlation. i generally find myself more attracted to people who share my thoughts on equality, who treat women like they have their own autonomy, and i generally run from any guns, no matter who owns them. as much as i’d like to think so, i can’t imagine i’m too special here. i long for the days where i was so naive as to think people were just voting for how to spend their tax dollars. i just didn’t have enough awareness of other people to realize the implications of the social platforms.
lastly, of course, where you live will also play a strong factor. i just don’t meet many republicans on a daily basis.
anecdote, i once helped a guy move and then i moved his two glocks. we arent friends anymore. his being a conservative was not a factor in this decision.
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On November 28 2017 01:46 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 01:37 Gahlo wrote:On November 28 2017 01:08 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:53 Gahlo wrote:On November 28 2017 00:37 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:11 Gahlo wrote:On November 27 2017 23:40 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:
[quote]
I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician.
At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world.
If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that. Let me get this straight: You side with the person breaking personal relationships over politics and want to say the other side forced you to adopt such an idiotic stance? I don’t care if you want to blame Trump, Nazis, or lizard people for the status quo, I just thought you had more moral agency than this. Aren't you the person that's been saying that Trump is The Left's fault and been hand waiving personal responsibility of people that voted for him? So this was all in reaction to the tweet by a NYT columnist. I wonder if you have a response to that tweet. Agree/disagree? You can’t be friends with people of an opposing political opinion if it involves supporting Trump? I'm not going to disparage people on how they choose their friends, that's up to them. When it comes to my republican friends, we just don't talk politics generally. You talk about your Republican friends like you still intend to keep them as friends. How can you say this when Trump is literally so bad? I’ve just heard some very passionate speeches about genocide and racism in this very forum, but I’m a Republican with many Democrat friends and not the reverse. Do you deny Trump is out to hurt you? Do you think your friends are evil or somewhat racist if they support him in some areas? Where do you get the notion that I agree that it's a necessity? And yes, by Trump's intention to repeal Obamacase I stand to be unable to afford health insurance. I'm implying that you've seen the arguments against and might have a response. I don't believe my Hillary-supporting friends literally seek my life, so I'm a little removed from understanding your point of view. I'll repeat: You've seen people here call Trump supporters supporters of racism and genocide. Are you of the same opinion and do you think the friends you're keeping are also evil, or racist, or other?
I've made my opinion known on the matter previously about whether or not they support that.
The former friends that I had that I found out to be racist I've summarily dropped from my life - and quite abruptly. I don't keep shit people in my life.
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On November 28 2017 01:51 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 01:26 Nebuchad wrote:On November 28 2017 01:20 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 01:11 Nebuchad wrote:On November 28 2017 01:04 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:48 Nebuchad wrote:On November 28 2017 00:45 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:34 Kickboxer wrote:
Losing friends over support of a candidate who actually won the election sounds like a totally non-divisive thing. Umm ... yeah. I really don't understand people who think they are making the world a better place by acting immature, confrontational and / or self-absorbed. It's really not how progress works, guys. Comparing Trump to the Golden Dawn? What the hell?
Here's a tip for you, if you possess any verbal intelligence and you think Trump is THAT BAD you should be able to slowly convince them to nudge closer to your position or at least accept it. What you are doing makes you appear brainwashed. He won the fucking election. All it takes is a rich white guy to justify “We can’t be friends anymore.” Imagine thinking that Donald Trump is a small leap. Hey, he got elected. Maybe realize that your fellow countrymen (in case of NYT columnist and some American posters here) did so and don’t cast your friends aside over it. There will be more elections in future. He was also a very natural successor to politics as practiced during the Obama regime Your argument was portraying Trump as a small leap. "All it takes is a rich white guy" implies that there's nothing quite special about Trump support, you would have expected that more would have been needed, while the argument that has been presented to you up until now has been exactly the opposite: that there was something special about Trump support. Effectively what you have done here is ignore the arguments you've been given, treat your opposition as if it already agreed with you, and then conclude that your opposition is weird based on us all agreeing on what you have said. We haven't. I will say for the sake of honesty that I had this policy for the far right in Switzerland long before Trump, and our far right is nowhere as extreme as your right. But then again I'm not a liberal so that helps me with the distance too. Hoping Obama fails in his stated agenda is peanuts compared to saying you can't be friends with Trump supporters. Apparently, there is no standard here and there is only partisan politics. Why is that an answer to this post? My argument, really my comment to Kickboxer, was that the left lacked standards. They bristled at a mild form of criticism compared to what came next. You missed the boat and excerpted a quote.
That's true, I did excerpt a quote. You did write this quote though, and it was a central part of your response, so the fact that it was either disingenuous or foolish was relevant to your entire post.
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I dropped a friend who posted a picture comparing black women and white women on Facebook. This was during the campaign. He’s a Trump supporter and thinks the Muslims should go home. But I’m sure that’s a negligible portion of Trumps base - a mere downside to Trump being necessary for American politics.
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On November 28 2017 01:45 LegalLord wrote:
Well.. it's certainly impressive how many people here choose their friendships based on political similarities. Though it does make sense in context of that "us vs them" mentality being cultivated.
Guess Mr. Blow is just one of many rather than some bizarre outlier. I did not know that.
In my view, it's more that being a true Trump supporter (not just anti-Hillary or pro conservative judges) reveals a sufficient amount about a person that I can gauge whether or not we will get along on an intellectual or emotional level.
Basically voting for Trump is not enough for me to 'judge' you, but rather I'm interested in the reason. If you're reasoning is something as asinine as "he says it like it is," or "he knows the art of the deal," then we may as well stop talking there.
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On November 28 2017 01:49 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 01:46 ticklishmusic wrote:
if i had a friend who still vocally and strongly supported trump at this point i'd probably ditch them tbh. some of the folks i saw over thanksgiving supported him last year, but the 15 minutes exception to no politics featured a "holy shit he actually sucks" which was good. This is very tailored to people who identify that way when asked. That's why you get on social media and outright declare we can't be friends. Find out which of your friends are Trump supporters and seek to break that friendship because "we don't have anything to talk about and we can't be friends." He would've gotten yawns if he voiced repulsion at MAGA-everything, down with the cucks, strong vocal Trump supporters. This one struck a nerve. You've seen the backlash when I said that's a stupid thing to break a friendship over.
i'm honestly not quite sure what you're trying to say here.
at the core, i base my friendships off of shared values and shared interests. i view those who continue to support trump, despite all the garbage he stands for, as people who don't share the same values or interests as me.
if they continue to be vocal in their support, that's a dealbreaker. doesn't matter if there's a "well trump is awful, BUT..." - arguably, that's even worse because somehow, in their minds, support of trump is justifiable. my math doesn't work that way, and it's not like a "okay if you weigh x this much and y this much i can see how it works" situation. the kind of shit he stands for is a colossal, insurmountable negative.
if they're silent or tacit in their support, that's pretty shitty too.
maybe if there are some people i am very close to supported trump at this point i wouldn't completely cut them out of my life, but it'd push them to the very edge of my social circle. if this was like ck2 or some sort of grand strategy/ diplo game, it's a -100 to reputation sort of thing.
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Danglars' posting is actually quite consistent if you start from the premise that he's a warrior. You will see two separate parts:
One, how he tells you that the enemy should treat him:
- Be closer to him on issues, particularly social (cause you are quite extreme, this is the part where you are a liberal SJW person and the american public has rejected you by voting for Trump)
- Perceive him as a person not a movement (it's wrong to criticize him for anything that Trump or the GOP or the right does, cause he might not agree)
- Accept some diversity in your thoughts (have friends that think like me, value the opinions of those friends, it's important to have a wide range of opinions that you choose from, etc)
So generally, a situation where you compromise and meet him halfway to create unity and less division.
Two, how he actually wants to (and does) deal with his enemies:
- Strong on immigration, strong on defense of conservative values. No willingness to meet people halfway when it comes to values that are different, some are so different that they shouldn't even be present in our western countries.
- Talk about "the left", "the liberals", "the SJWs"... And of course, you are going to have to defend what these people said cause you're in the same group, or close enough.
- Basically always defend the most rightwing position that is deemed acceptable regardless of circumstances.
So generally, a refusal to give ground on any issue and a strong showing of moral certitude for any situation.
Guys, let me offer a thought here. I don't think he thinks he's giving us good advice.
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On November 28 2017 02:05 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 01:49 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 01:46 ticklishmusic wrote:
if i had a friend who still vocally and strongly supported trump at this point i'd probably ditch them tbh. some of the folks i saw over thanksgiving supported him last year, but the 15 minutes exception to no politics featured a "holy shit he actually sucks" which was good. This is very tailored to people who identify that way when asked. That's why you get on social media and outright declare we can't be friends. Find out which of your friends are Trump supporters and seek to break that friendship because "we don't have anything to talk about and we can't be friends." He would've gotten yawns if he voiced repulsion at MAGA-everything, down with the cucks, strong vocal Trump supporters. This one struck a nerve. You've seen the backlash when I said that's a stupid thing to break a friendship over. i'm honestly not quite sure what you're trying to say here. at the core, i base my friendships off of shared values and shared interests. i view those who continue to support trump, despite all the garbage he stands for, as people who don't share the same values or interests as me. if they continue to be vocal in their support, that's a dealbreaker. doesn't matter if there's a "well trump is awful, BUT..." - arguably, that's even worse because somehow, in their minds, support of trump is justifiable. my math doesn't work that way, and it's not like a "okay if you weigh x this much and y this much i can see how it works" situation. the kind of shit he stands for is a colossal, insurmountable negative. if they're silent or tacit in their support, that's pretty shitty too. maybe if there are some people i am very close to supported trump at this point i wouldn't completely cut them out of my life, but it'd push them to the very edge of my social circle. if this was like ck2 or some sort of grand strategy/ diplo game, it's a -100 to reputation sort of thing.
I like that you start out with a joke. People that share your values and interests can't be Trump supporters. It's half a defense of constructing bubbles and half a Utopian dream that people who share goals must agree on the means or they didn't have that value in the first place.
But thank you for sharing your opinion. I can readily believe you're being honest here in your dealbreakers and thinking silent supporters are pretty shitty too.
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On November 28 2017 01:25 Sermokala wrote:
I don't think I've heard a less.interesting coversation then "is politics more important than friendship?".
For some people no and for some people yes. You people are embarrassing how much you all chase your own tails.
It started out with people saying that they were also upset that politics have come to that, but such is the era Trump’s brand grievance of politics. And that it has become harder to be friends with people who continued to overtly support Trump in late 2017.
Then some folks turned it into “you’re part of the problem! It is so self indulgent to give up close friendships over politics!” That somehow I’m supposed to look past people that continue to openly support stripping my wife’s healthcare benefits away. And that is after I explain it to them.
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On November 28 2017 02:09 Nebuchad wrote:
Danglars' posting is actually quite consistent if you start from the premise that he's a warrior. You will see two separate parts:
One, how he tells you that the enemy should treat him:
- Be closer to him on issues, particularly social (cause you are quite extreme, this is the part where you are a liberal SJW person and the american public has rejected you by voting for Trump)
- Perceive him as a person not a movement (it's wrong to criticize him for anything that Trump or the GOP or the right does, cause he might not agree)
- Accept some diversity in your thoughts (have friends that think like me, value the opinions of those friends, it's important to have a wide range of opinions that you choose from, etc)
So generally, a situation where you compromise and meet him halfway to create unity and less division.
Two, how he actually wants to (and does) deal with his enemies:
- Strong on immigration, strong on defense of conservative values. No willingness to meet people halfway when it comes to values that are different, some are so different that they shouldn't even be present in our western countries.
- Talk about "the left", "the liberals", "the SJWs"... And of course, you are going to have to defend what these people said cause you're in the same group, or close enough.
- Basically always defend the most rightwing position that is deemed acceptable regardless of circumstances.
So generally, a refusal to give ground on any issue and a strong showing of moral certitude for any situation.
Guys, let me offer a thought here. I don't think he thinks he's giving us good advice.
It's a debate thread. I'm going to argue that my stance on the issues is correct. Why do you have such a problem with that?
I'm going to argue that it's important for a society to listen to each other instead of construct bubbles and talk about the feared "other" - those nasty Trump supporters (hilarious that they project the fear of the other onto their political opponents in the first place). I didn't expect much backlash on this point, but you all debate to surprise.
I do expect pushback if you disagree with broad views espoused by the left. It's a left-leaning forum. A lot of people think Trump's bad enough to break friendships over. You're lucky to have only two or three token conservatives you can refer to by name (and Toadesstern still manages to fuck that up). If I say thread leftists think politics is a transcendent force that breaks friendships or families, I allege it's a pervasive outlook and you're free to argue with me about it. Nebuchad, it's okay to argue with me about it. I won't be mad, it's okay.
Also, you're imputing bad motives for no good reason whatsoever. I have to gauge what individuals believe on this forum based on their interactions in this forum. I'm glad fewer than I thought consider an opinion on toxic masculinity to be wrongheaded. I'm sad that so many value friendships so lightly to rend them on politics. These things I discover with news posts and opinion debates.
And you need to take your own advice and stop strawmanning "defend the most rightwing position" and actually listen to people as individuals. It would be a start to your own political moderation, Nebuchad. You sound like an extremist that gets around by labeling other views as extreme.
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In between 2 and 3, news breaks that Flynn is likely negotiating with Mueller, and the next day, Trump has a call with Erdogan and makes a significant concession on funding Kurdish rebels.
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On November 28 2017 02:22 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 02:05 ticklishmusic wrote:On November 28 2017 01:49 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 01:46 ticklishmusic wrote:
if i had a friend who still vocally and strongly supported trump at this point i'd probably ditch them tbh. some of the folks i saw over thanksgiving supported him last year, but the 15 minutes exception to no politics featured a "holy shit he actually sucks" which was good. This is very tailored to people who identify that way when asked. That's why you get on social media and outright declare we can't be friends. Find out which of your friends are Trump supporters and seek to break that friendship because "we don't have anything to talk about and we can't be friends." He would've gotten yawns if he voiced repulsion at MAGA-everything, down with the cucks, strong vocal Trump supporters. This one struck a nerve. You've seen the backlash when I said that's a stupid thing to break a friendship over. i'm honestly not quite sure what you're trying to say here. at the core, i base my friendships off of shared values and shared interests. i view those who continue to support trump, despite all the garbage he stands for, as people who don't share the same values or interests as me. if they continue to be vocal in their support, that's a dealbreaker. doesn't matter if there's a "well trump is awful, BUT..." - arguably, that's even worse because somehow, in their minds, support of trump is justifiable. my math doesn't work that way, and it's not like a "okay if you weigh x this much and y this much i can see how it works" situation. the kind of shit he stands for is a colossal, insurmountable negative. if they're silent or tacit in their support, that's pretty shitty too. maybe if there are some people i am very close to supported trump at this point i wouldn't completely cut them out of my life, but it'd push them to the very edge of my social circle. if this was like ck2 or some sort of grand strategy/ diplo game, it's a -100 to reputation sort of thing. I like that you start out with a joke. People that share your values and interests can't be Trump supporters. It's half a defense of constructing bubbles and half a Utopian dream that people who share goals must agree on the means or they didn't have that value in the first place. But thank you for sharing your opinion. I can readily believe you're being honest here in your dealbreakers and thinking silent supporters are pretty shitty too.
it takes some rather weird math to support trump starting with the values or interests i have i would think. or being charitable, a lot of ignorance. i'm doing 2+2 and getting 4. they're getting 2+2 and getting like 7. then again, magical math does seem to be a core tool in the conservative toolkit though i'd believed until recently such things were limited to paul ryan's tax proposals.
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The problem is that you assume folks like myself are "value(ing) friendships so lightly." That isn't the case.
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On November 28 2017 02:36 Plansix wrote:
The problem is that you assume folks like myself are "value(ing) friendships so lightly." That isn't the case.
How dare you value your wife's well being over a friendship. You monster.
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EPT
