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On November 28 2017 00:53 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:37 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:11 Gahlo wrote:On November 27 2017 23:40 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:On November 27 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:
Bummer to hear that from a columnist I actually think is pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician. At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world. If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that. Let me get this straight: You side with the person breaking personal relationships over politics and want to say the other side forced you to adopt such an idiotic stance? I don’t care if you want to blame Trump, Nazis, or lizard people for the status quo, I just thought you had more moral agency than this. Aren't you the person that's been saying that Trump is The Left's fault and been hand waiving personal responsibility of people that voted for him? So this was all in reaction to the tweet by a NYT columnist. I wonder if you have a response to that tweet. Agree/disagree? You can’t be friends with people of an opposing political opinion if it involves supporting Trump? I'm not going to disparage people on how they choose their friends, that's up to them. When it comes to my republican friends, we just don't talk politics generally.
You talk about your Republican friends like you still intend to keep them as friends. How can you say this when Trump is literally so bad? I’ve just heard some very passionate speeches about genocide and racism in this very forum, but I’m a Republican with many Democrat friends and not the reverse. Do you deny Trump is out to hurt you? Do you think your friends are evil or somewhat racist if they support him in some areas?
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On November 28 2017 01:06 brian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 01:01 Kickboxer wrote:
I don't understand the "extreme political differences" lingo. What are the totally extreme differences between Trump and Hillary apart from the obnoxious virtue posturing of the democrats, comically failing to deliver in real life? Hollywood, a den of proven real-life rapists, was certainly very loud when it came to attacking him. Yeah, those were the good guys.
Bush was a fucking clown, heir to a cleptocracy groomed by a bone fide war criminal dynasty and he was somehow "ok" enough to keep friends over, but the Dolan is not? The way Trump is portrayed by some is hilarious. No, Trump is not Hitler. If I hear this inane comparison once again I'm busting a nut. "Opposing" Trump is not only highly fashionable but apparently expected in burgeois urban circles, while opposing Adolf got you murdered or deported at 2 AM. He hasn't started any wars, apart from being a buffoon has done minimal damage it seems, he likely saved the country from a completely insane warhawk and her proven rapist husband and opened up some sorely needed discussion topics.
I wanted Bernie to win, but the way Trump is being portrayed by salty progressives is not only indecent and dishonest but kind of funny. You can wrap yourself in a bubble all you want but sooner or later it's going to break, so unless you start addressing specific and serious policy failures crying uncle over moral outrage is about the weakest political strategy I can think of. this post has missed every real criticism of the administration and built a weak straw man of hollywood to knock down. bad!
It also relies on the very stupid idea that we can’t do two things at once.
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On November 28 2017 01:04 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:48 Nebuchad wrote:On November 28 2017 00:45 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:34 Kickboxer wrote:
Losing friends over support of a candidate who actually won the election sounds like a totally non-divisive thing. Umm ... yeah. I really don't understand people who think they are making the world a better place by acting immature, confrontational and / or self-absorbed. It's really not how progress works, guys. Comparing Trump to the Golden Dawn? What the hell?
Here's a tip for you, if you possess any verbal intelligence and you think Trump is THAT BAD you should be able to slowly convince them to nudge closer to your position or at least accept it. What you are doing makes you appear brainwashed. He won the fucking election. All it takes is a rich white guy to justify “We can’t be friends anymore.” Imagine thinking that Donald Trump is a small leap. Hey, he got elected. Maybe realize that your fellow countrymen (in case of NYT columnist and some American posters here) did so and don’t cast your friends aside over it. There will be more elections in future. He was also a very natural successor to politics as practiced during the Obama regime 
Your argument was portraying Trump as a small leap. "All it takes is a rich white guy" implies that there's nothing quite special about Trump support, you would have expected that more would have been needed, while the argument that has been presented to you up until now has been exactly the opposite: that there was something special about Trump support. Effectively what you have done here is ignore the arguments you've been given, treat your opposition as if it already agreed with you, and then conclude that your opposition is weird based on us all agreeing on what you have said.
We haven't.
I will say for the sake of honesty that I had this policy for the far right in Switzerland long before Trump, and our far right is nowhere as extreme as your right. But then again I'm not a liberal so that helps me with the distance too.
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trump just wants to gut social services, civil rights and government oversight but we should totally be cool with that and be cool with people who are cool with that.
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On November 28 2017 00:39 Plansix wrote:
Openly support the campaign that had people wearing shirts saying “Fuck your feelings.” Yet, somehow, people are self absorbed by saying “Fine, we don’t need to talk anymore.”
Now we're at justifying tearing up friendships over what individuals supporters did. I guess you're really wanting to be lumped in with SJW activists and protestors that rioted and set fires after Trump's election.
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On November 28 2017 00:39 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:22 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:10 Plansix wrote:
As always Danglars, you want be able embrace the most divisive form of politics without consequences. We are all only human and can only put in so much effort to understanding people on the other side.. The Trump brand of politics is division and grievance and there is only so much energy people can put in. Between being actively screwed over by the GOP and the day to day grind of life, some people have become too much effort. I put people on notice a long time ago that they best come prepared to justify remaining in my life if they openly supported Trump. And some folks have made it work. Most did not have not. We are all human and must talk to each other’s and strike friendships across the political aisle because we don’t all individually or intra-Party have all the answers. That’s very theoretical and your reasoning breaks down as soon as the example is extreme enough. If you lived in Germany in 1932, you would find it obvious that people could stop being friends over politics and that the whole “strike friendshop across the other aile” wouldn’t work. Politics may be decisive on to whom i give my friendship because i like and admire people with certain qualities, that are incompatible with some political stances. I sincerely cannot have a good friend who likes the idea of torture, or death penalty, or opposes gay people, or has no problem with poor people being unable to aford a healthcare insurance. It’s not that i am narrow minded, bit that i don’t want to be around people whose ideas horrify me; inversely i highly value compassion and tolerance, and i don’t want friends who are unable to display either. So again, it’s not political per say. It’s about people, and what their political opinions says about them. I’ll never befriend a Le Pen supporter because in my view and with my values, you are really not a good person if you think she is great and align with her ideas, that i find simply repulsive.
Why do you have to start with Nazi references to make your point? I consider it a very weak open if Trump isn't declaring American needs lebensraum in Canada and Mexico.
Here's a hint: If the treatment of your political enemies relies on Hitler references, maybe you need to tone down the paranoia and treat fellow citizens as fellow citizens. And maybe remember why you became friends with a certain person to begin with.
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On November 28 2017 00:54 brian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:45 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:34 Kickboxer wrote:
Losing friends over support of a candidate who actually won the election sounds like a totally non-divisive thing. Umm ... yeah. I really don't understand people who think they are making the world a better place by acting immature, confrontational and / or self-absorbed. It's really not how progress works, guys. Comparing Trump to the Golden Dawn? What the hell?
Here's a tip for you, if you possess any verbal intelligence and you think Trump is THAT BAD you should be able to slowly convince them to nudge closer to your position or at least accept it. What you are doing makes you appear brainwashed. He won the fucking election. I heard the Obama refrain “I hope he fails” be called racist and unpatriotic and anti-civilizational and all that. All it takes is a rich white guy to justify “We can’t be friends anymore.” It’s getting more play here that I initially thought. I expected more cautious “if all he does it talk the_Donald” or “he interjects MAGA or cuck into conversations.” Nah, kick them to the curb—their political opinions elected a President that I don’t like and the political is the personal today because that’s how society works in 2017. you’ve written paragraphs defending republican voters endorsing roy moore as a means of protecting a way of life and yet paint this as a liberal problem all over this page, i must be missing something?
You must also have a response to the tweet. I wonder what it is? Do you have Republican friends or Trump voters among your friends and do you think ceasing those friendships is a good thing considering who Trump is? Do you think others that void friendships based on political opinions are justified in their actions, presuming they're otherwise the same friend you knew?
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What would you say is a good reason to tear up a friendship, Danglars?
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On November 28 2017 01:13 ticklishmusic wrote:
trump just wants to gut social services, civil rights and government oversight but we should totally be cool with that and be cool with people who are cool with that.
While doing that, he also wants to attack black NFL players who protest, fathers of NBA players for not being grateful enough, say that literal white supremacist are “fine people” after one of them murders somebody and fill the white house with unqualified goons. I didn’t hear stories about the KKK passing out fliers at high school football games until that clown was elected.
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On November 28 2017 00:57 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:54 brian wrote:On November 28 2017 00:45 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:34 Kickboxer wrote:
Losing friends over support of a candidate who actually won the election sounds like a totally non-divisive thing. Umm ... yeah. I really don't understand people who think they are making the world a better place by acting immature, confrontational and / or self-absorbed. It's really not how progress works, guys. Comparing Trump to the Golden Dawn? What the hell?
Here's a tip for you, if you possess any verbal intelligence and you think Trump is THAT BAD you should be able to slowly convince them to nudge closer to your position or at least accept it. What you are doing makes you appear brainwashed. He won the fucking election. I heard the Obama refrain “I hope he fails” be called racist and unpatriotic and anti-civilizational and all that. All it takes is a rich white guy to justify “We can’t be friends anymore.” It’s getting more play here that I initially thought. I expected more cautious “if all he does it talk the_Donald” or “he interjects MAGA or cuck into conversations.” Nah, kick them to the curb—their political opinions elected a President that I don’t like and the political is the personal today because that’s how society works in 2017. you’ve written paragraphs defending republican voters endorsing roy moore as a means of protecting a way of life and yet paint this as a liberal problem all over this page, i must be missing something? Danglars is a guy who wants to attack people like Jeff Flake for choosing what he feels it best country and working with Democrats, but then turns around and says we are terrible for not wanting to be friends with people who still support Trump. He will throw a conservative under the bus the instant they talk about compromise, but we are not allowed to do the same. He holds himself to a very different standard than he holds us.
Woah, attacking people based on their voting record and what you think that holds for the country?
It's almost like I'm holding our political leaders accountable for how they vote as representatives, and not attacking their voters and saying friendships must end. What a novel idea, gentlemen and ladies!
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On November 28 2017 01:11 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 01:04 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:48 Nebuchad wrote:On November 28 2017 00:45 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:34 Kickboxer wrote:
Losing friends over support of a candidate who actually won the election sounds like a totally non-divisive thing. Umm ... yeah. I really don't understand people who think they are making the world a better place by acting immature, confrontational and / or self-absorbed. It's really not how progress works, guys. Comparing Trump to the Golden Dawn? What the hell?
Here's a tip for you, if you possess any verbal intelligence and you think Trump is THAT BAD you should be able to slowly convince them to nudge closer to your position or at least accept it. What you are doing makes you appear brainwashed. He won the fucking election. All it takes is a rich white guy to justify “We can’t be friends anymore.” Imagine thinking that Donald Trump is a small leap. Hey, he got elected. Maybe realize that your fellow countrymen (in case of NYT columnist and some American posters here) did so and don’t cast your friends aside over it. There will be more elections in future. He was also a very natural successor to politics as practiced during the Obama regime Your argument was portraying Trump as a small leap. "All it takes is a rich white guy" implies that there's nothing quite special about Trump support, you would have expected that more would have been needed, while the argument that has been presented to you up until now has been exactly the opposite: that there was something special about Trump support. Effectively what you have done here is ignore the arguments you've been given, treat your opposition as if it already agreed with you, and then conclude that your opposition is weird based on us all agreeing on what you have said. We haven't. I will say for the sake of honesty that I had this policy for the far right in Switzerland long before Trump, and our far right is nowhere as extreme as your right. But then again I'm not a liberal so that helps me with the distance too.
Hoping Obama fails in his stated agenda is peanuts compared to saying you can't be friends with Trump supporters. Apparently, there is no standard here and there is only partisan politics.
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On November 28 2017 00:49 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:41 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On November 28 2017 00:21 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:06 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On November 27 2017 23:45 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 15:23 Wulfey_LA wrote:On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:On November 27 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:
Bummer to hear that from a columnist I actually think is pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician. At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world. If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that. Non-exhaustive List of those responsible for national disunity: Liberals The Left Colleges The Media The Democrats The Swamp The Cities Ungrateful Minorities Black NFL Players The Intelligence Agencies Anyone living near the coasts Athiests Muslims Mexicans #NeverTrump Closet Trump supporters Elected Republican Legislators who can't pass the President's bills Exhaustive List of those who are upholding national unity and decency in this divisive times: President Trump Open, Proud, and Clapping Trump supporters It’s a trying political time and men and women of sense will debate on the issues and actions. Losers and trolls will continue to play tribal games and claim their opponents are racist douchebags. There’s still another team? Why, they must hate brown people or something! Surely the only logical thing to do is ruin friendships over politics! Yes, that’s the stuff! Maybe they aren't racist, but they openly and knowingly support and vote for someone who vocally is, and has shown time and again that racism will be prevalent in how they conduct themselves in a position of power. Maybe they don't hate people who can't afford healthcare, but they openly and knowingly support and vote for someone who is trying to create a system in which those people will suffer. Maybe they don't hate education and those who provide it, but... Imagine you are on Survivor. Your team is all voting to choose a team leader, and someone says "if you make me leader, I'll repeatedly kick the s*** out of Danglars, and make survivor great again!" and your friend passionately pipes up with "hell yeah I'll vote for this guy! He isn't like all the other team leaders who don't get things done!" How will you feel and react? If you'd be fine with that, then that's damn stupid and the trust and goodwill one associates with any degree of friendship is terribly misplaced. Trump voters, by and large, might not have voted for his blatant racism etc, but to give a massive and arguably undeserved benefit of the doubt, they just didn't care. If someone just doesn't care about the damage their political positions and support does to me, why the hell would I consider them a friend? The same argument extends to basic decency and having moral expectations of those you closely associate with in general. That ones on you, and society is the worse for it. That's the dumbest response I've ever received on a message board in my life. Which is saying a lot. Me - "I don't want to give my friendship to someone literally actively supporting the means to the end of millions of people dying od completely preventable issues in some Randian genocide." You - "OMG no that's a bad thing, you dividing society!1!!" Society is worse for Trump even running for president, let alone winning. Society is worse for millions of people supporting him without giving a damn for the consequences. Society is not worse because I wouldn't trust the moral judgement of such people enough to give them the trust or benefit of friendship. Maybe it’s easier to imagine a country like an episode of “Survivor” for you, but not for me. “Literally Hitler” is outplayed and “literally genocide” is at least as backwards of a means of debate. Go talk a little more to the other side and stop these fantasies where your life is run by politics.
can someone please quote the post from (I think?) Danglars a couple weeks ago arguing that people suffering, possibly dying from Obamacare blowing up will happen and that that's needed for the US to get a better system? I can't seem to find it
Or am I mistaking him for xDaunt on that point?
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I don't think I've heard a less.interesting coversation then "is politics more important than friendship?".
For some people no and for some people yes. You people are embarrassing how much you all chase your own tails.
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On November 28 2017 01:18 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:54 brian wrote:On November 28 2017 00:45 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:34 Kickboxer wrote:
Losing friends over support of a candidate who actually won the election sounds like a totally non-divisive thing. Umm ... yeah. I really don't understand people who think they are making the world a better place by acting immature, confrontational and / or self-absorbed. It's really not how progress works, guys. Comparing Trump to the Golden Dawn? What the hell?
Here's a tip for you, if you possess any verbal intelligence and you think Trump is THAT BAD you should be able to slowly convince them to nudge closer to your position or at least accept it. What you are doing makes you appear brainwashed. He won the fucking election. I heard the Obama refrain “I hope he fails” be called racist and unpatriotic and anti-civilizational and all that. All it takes is a rich white guy to justify “We can’t be friends anymore.” It’s getting more play here that I initially thought. I expected more cautious “if all he does it talk the_Donald” or “he interjects MAGA or cuck into conversations.” Nah, kick them to the curb—their political opinions elected a President that I don’t like and the political is the personal today because that’s how society works in 2017. you’ve written paragraphs defending republican voters endorsing roy moore as a means of protecting a way of life and yet paint this as a liberal problem all over this page, i must be missing something? You must also have a response to the tweet. I wonder what it is? Do you have Republican friends or Trump voters among your friends and do you think ceasing those friendships is a good thing considering who Trump is? Do you think others that void friendships based on political opinions are justified in their actions, presuming they're otherwise the same friend you knew?
as i said, there’s a difference between having voted for trump and continued support.
voting for trump(or anyone, imo) is fully excusable, i mean you only get two choices right?
continuing support isn’t, for me, no. id rather not befriend people
in favor of his ‘accomplishments,’ and no i don’t find that even remotely weird. he’s done a lot of things that hurt a lot of people. i can’t imagine anything more normal than someone being deported not befriending the guy actively supporting his deportation.
as far as severing existing friendships, i don’t think that’s weird either. all my trump voters actually no longer support him, so i can’t answer to that effect. i don’t often find myself trying to get closer to anyone that votes republican. correlation, not causation. most of my friends like black people, immigrants and gays so i mean i’ve already written off half the pool. if i got into it with my family and they actually supported his positions, yea, i’d avoid them during the holidays.
i can’t help but note you haven’t told me what i’m missing, though. in this case i’d like to assume i am missing something over the alternative, blatant hypocrisy.
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United States42292 Posts
On November 27 2017 23:45 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2017 15:23 Wulfey_LA wrote:On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:On November 27 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:
Bummer to hear that from a columnist I actually think is pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician. At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world. If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that. Non-exhaustive List of those responsible for national disunity: Liberals The Left Colleges The Media The Democrats The Swamp The Cities Ungrateful Minorities Black NFL Players The Intelligence Agencies Anyone living near the coasts Athiests Muslims Mexicans #NeverTrump Closet Trump supporters Elected Republican Legislators who can't pass the President's bills Exhaustive List of those who are upholding national unity and decency in this divisive times: President Trump Open, Proud, and Clapping Trump supporters It’s a trying political time and men and women of sense will debate on the issues and actions. Losers and trolls will continue to play tribal games and claim their opponents are racist douchebags. There’s still another team? Why, they must hate brown people or something! Surely the only logical thing to do is ruin friendships over politics! Yes, that’s the stuff!
If the other team didn't hate brown people we could still have two teams, where neither hate brown people. Most countries manage that. It's not that the idea of a two party system where neither hate brown people is alien, and that we're concluding that one of the two must hate brown people from starting axioms. It's that y'all hate blacks.
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On November 28 2017 01:20 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 01:11 Nebuchad wrote:On November 28 2017 01:04 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:48 Nebuchad wrote:On November 28 2017 00:45 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:34 Kickboxer wrote:
Losing friends over support of a candidate who actually won the election sounds like a totally non-divisive thing. Umm ... yeah. I really don't understand people who think they are making the world a better place by acting immature, confrontational and / or self-absorbed. It's really not how progress works, guys. Comparing Trump to the Golden Dawn? What the hell?
Here's a tip for you, if you possess any verbal intelligence and you think Trump is THAT BAD you should be able to slowly convince them to nudge closer to your position or at least accept it. What you are doing makes you appear brainwashed. He won the fucking election. All it takes is a rich white guy to justify “We can’t be friends anymore.” Imagine thinking that Donald Trump is a small leap. Hey, he got elected. Maybe realize that your fellow countrymen (in case of NYT columnist and some American posters here) did so and don’t cast your friends aside over it. There will be more elections in future. He was also a very natural successor to politics as practiced during the Obama regime Your argument was portraying Trump as a small leap. "All it takes is a rich white guy" implies that there's nothing quite special about Trump support, you would have expected that more would have been needed, while the argument that has been presented to you up until now has been exactly the opposite: that there was something special about Trump support. Effectively what you have done here is ignore the arguments you've been given, treat your opposition as if it already agreed with you, and then conclude that your opposition is weird based on us all agreeing on what you have said. We haven't. I will say for the sake of honesty that I had this policy for the far right in Switzerland long before Trump, and our far right is nowhere as extreme as your right. But then again I'm not a liberal so that helps me with the distance too. Hoping Obama fails in his stated agenda is peanuts compared to saying you can't be friends with Trump supporters. Apparently, there is no standard here and there is only partisan politics.
Why is that an answer to this post?
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On a grand scale, there is no final outcome to stopping two-way communication apart from increasing conflict.
Understanding the complexity of real-life social interactions and dynamics among flesh-and-blood people with all our flaws, hypocrisy and hidden frustrations concealed as moral posturing (great historical case is marxism in theory vs. marxism in practice), there is absolutely no moral high ground to cutting people off for their political stance. It's easier than talking about it, sure, but to put it in Trumpspeak, it's certainly not "gooder".
Forcing Trump supporters into tribal mode will do nothing to change their perspective, in fact, the opposite. Since that is likely around 100 million people (most of whom are now silent because they're ashamed, but when the election comes, will again fucking vote Trump because for them, the reasons why they voted for Trump obviously have not gotten better and they voted for him in the first place) this is not a society improving strategy.
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On November 28 2017 01:08 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:53 Gahlo wrote:On November 28 2017 00:37 Danglars wrote:On November 28 2017 00:11 Gahlo wrote:On November 27 2017 23:40 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:On November 27 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:
Bummer to hear that from a columnist I actually think is pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician. At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world. If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that. Let me get this straight: You side with the person breaking personal relationships over politics and want to say the other side forced you to adopt such an idiotic stance? I don’t care if you want to blame Trump, Nazis, or lizard people for the status quo, I just thought you had more moral agency than this. Aren't you the person that's been saying that Trump is The Left's fault and been hand waiving personal responsibility of people that voted for him? So this was all in reaction to the tweet by a NYT columnist. I wonder if you have a response to that tweet. Agree/disagree? You can’t be friends with people of an opposing political opinion if it involves supporting Trump? I'm not going to disparage people on how they choose their friends, that's up to them. When it comes to my republican friends, we just don't talk politics generally. You talk about your Republican friends like you still intend to keep them as friends. How can you say this when Trump is literally so bad? I’ve just heard some very passionate speeches about genocide and racism in this very forum, but I’m a Republican with many Democrat friends and not the reverse. Do you deny Trump is out to hurt you? Do you think your friends are evil or somewhat racist if they support him in some areas?
Where do you get the notion that I agree that it's a necessity?
And yes, by Trump's intention to repeal Obamacase I stand to be unable to afford health insurance.
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On November 28 2017 01:25 Sermokala wrote:
I don't think I've heard a less.interesting coversation then "is politics more important than friendship?".
For some people no and for some people yes. You people are embarrassing how much you all chase your own tails.
I'll stand for friendships transcending political disagreements any day. My friendships from across the aisle bless my life and I value them. When I hear a NYT reporter + Show Spoiler + speaking that it's impossible for him to remain friends, it saddens me. When the forum does similar politicization of friendships, I'm saddened more.
And, no, I didn't think simply electing Trump would burst the bubbles many of these reporters find themselves in.
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Appearing on New Day, Breitbart‘s Joel Pollak made an argument he’s used before in defense of the Senate candidate, that seven of Moore’s eight accusers were at or above 16 — the legal age of consent in Alabama — at the time of the alleged incidents. New Day anchor Chris Cuomo noted that a 16-year-old Moore accuser, while above the age of the consent, would still have been extremely young to face advances from a man in his 30s.
And that was when Pollak cited the Ringo Starr number .
“You know, in 1973, Ringo Starr hit No. 1 on the Billboard charts with the song; You’re Sixteen, You’re Beautiful, and You’re Mine,” Pollak said. “And it was a remake of an earlier song. He was 30-something at the time, singing about a 16-year-old. You want to take away Ringo Starr’s achievement?”
Cuomo was visibly stunned.
“You can’t be serious,” Cuomo said, sternly. “You can’t be serious.”
“You can’t be serious,” Pollak replied.
“Oh, I’m dead serious. You think that Ringo Starr’s song is supposed to be a nod towards allowing 30-year-old men to prey on teenagers?” Cuomo said. “You don’t believe that, Joel. You’re a parent. You don’t believe that.”
Pollak did not offer a direct answer to Cuomo’s question.
“You’re also a parent,” Pollak said. “And you know when you raise sons, the risk that our sons face today, that they’re going to be exposed to accusations that may or may not be true. And that’s a new thing. You talk about raising daughters, you always worry about your daughters, the kind of risks they’re going to face. But what our sons have to worry about is what you’re talking about — where you’re lumping in allegations of illegal behavior with legal conduct. And it’s part of a campaign of character assassination that the mainstream media’s been a part of.”
Watch above, via cnn
www.mediaite.com
Another defense to throw on the pile
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EPT
