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On November 27 2017 18:24 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2017 17:39 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 27 2017 14:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:On November 27 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:
Bummer to hear that from a columnist I actually think is pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician. At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world. If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. I don't understand how people separate advocating policy that destroys someone's life and their "personal relationships" I think this is something that primarily exists where people have differences on political opinion but neither is really threatened by the potential outcomes. If you're trying to get my brother deported after he worked his ass off in this country and paid taxes because of some ignorant and bigoted imperialist mindset, you are not my friend. Doesn't matter if you're otherwise polite and think it's just a difference of opinion. On November 27 2017 14:34 Doodsmack wrote:
Says the guy who helped lie for the Bush Administration to get us into Iraq... I agree but i would go further than that. Your political views say a lot about who you are. It’s not only blue team / red team. I know that someone supporting Le Pen will never be my friend. Not an ennemy, i can have a polite relationship and even do stuff together, but not a friend. And if one of my existing friends started to support Le Pen, I would move on. It’s not a visceral reaction, it’s not hatred or close mindness; just that I couldn’t ever trust someone who believes in her ideas. This is exactly how I feel about people supporting the Sweden Democrats. I have no problem hanging out with people from either side of the left/right spectrum, my friends ranges from the environment activist lefties to the jetsetting stock trader. SD however operates on a different scale and represents ideals and opinions that I feel uncomfortable surrounding myself with. Sure, 'it's just politics', but so is Nazism.
I know that the US is engulfed in complete madness and that it’s actually possible to somewhat have been convinced by Trump without it meaning much about who you are; from the perspective and distance of Scandinavia, supporting or liking him is a deal breaker friendshipwise. Which is fine considering that almost no one does and the people who do are almost all the time hardcore douchebags, SD style.
Europe is still very much on the “horrible politicians are supported by mostly horrible people” side of politics. If you hear that a greek dude supports golden dawn, it tells you well enough he is certainly a fucking asshole. But that seems to have stopped being the case in the US, and that must be exhausting.
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On November 27 2017 23:11 plated.rawr wrote:
I kinda feel bad for all the people whove been using so many years working hard and maneuvering and making friends the right places to get a shot at a White House job - only to have it be realized during the current predidency.
They could have freely said no and tried again with a real administration.
They could have walked out after a month, more then enough stupid stuff happens in a Trump month to know your not going to get listened to.
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On November 27 2017 23:24 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2017 23:11 plated.rawr wrote:
I kinda feel bad for all the people whove been using so many years working hard and maneuvering and making friends the right places to get a shot at a White House job - only to have it be realized during the current predidency. They could have freely said no and tried again with a real administration. They could have walked out after a month, more then enough stupid stuff happens in a Trump month to know your not going to get listened to.
I dunno, I'd sort of expect a WH-job to be a once-in-a-lifetime possibility that a lot of people could only aspire to, and, like some dream of becoming an astronaut, this would be the pinnacle of their goals in life. Saying 'no' when someone's literally offering you the job of your dreams would be madness.
I mean sure, accepting a job in the Trump trainwreck wouldn't be a smart choice, but when it comes to people and dreams, irrationality's the only rational thing to expect. Also, "how bad could it really be?", I'm sure they're telling themselves.
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On November 27 2017 22:33 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
To be fair, that list is a pretty accurate summary of Danglars view.
you could also relabel it as "people who have been mean to donald trump at least once in the last year"
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On November 27 2017 14:41 biology]major wrote:
There is no defense for trump, not at this point. Danglars with the hilarious unity line when our president is one of the best dividers we've seen in quite some time. He may have had some ideas neglected by democrats, which he was able to bring to the forefront with hilarious rhetoric, that's the most I can say about him. He brings out the worst in us as a nation and is the absolute opposite of unity or healing.
Then let me repeat that declaring it is out of the question to support or oppose based on what he’s doing is stupid and destructive.
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On November 27 2017 23:33 plated.rawr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2017 23:24 Gorsameth wrote:On November 27 2017 23:11 plated.rawr wrote:
I kinda feel bad for all the people whove been using so many years working hard and maneuvering and making friends the right places to get a shot at a White House job - only to have it be realized during the current predidency. They could have freely said no and tried again with a real administration. They could have walked out after a month, more then enough stupid stuff happens in a Trump month to know your not going to get listened to. I dunno, I'd sort of expect a WH-job to be a once-in-a-lifetime possibility that a lot of people could only aspire to, and, like some dream of becoming an astronaut, this would be the pinnacle of their goals in life. Saying 'no' when someone's literally offering you the job of your dreams would be madness. I mean sure, accepting a job in the Trump trainwreck wouldn't be a smart choice, but when it comes to people and dreams, irrationality's the only rational thing to expect. Also, "how bad could it really be?", I'm sure they're telling themselves.
when you want to become involved in football and Pjoengjang FC offers you a job you would (or should...) also think twice about accepting it.
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On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:On November 27 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:
Bummer to hear that from a columnist I actually think is pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician. At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world. If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that.
Let me get this straight: You side with the person breaking personal relationships over politics and want to say the other side forced you to adopt such an idiotic stance?
I don’t care if you want to blame Trump, Nazis, or lizard people for the status quo, I just thought you had more moral agency than this.
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On November 27 2017 15:23 Wulfey_LA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:On November 27 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:
Bummer to hear that from a columnist I actually think is pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician. At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world. If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that. Non-exhaustive List of those responsible for national disunity: Liberals The Left Colleges The Media The Democrats The Swamp The Cities Ungrateful Minorities Black NFL Players The Intelligence Agencies Anyone living near the coasts Athiests Muslims Mexicans #NeverTrump Closet Trump supporters Elected Republican Legislators who can't pass the President's bills Exhaustive List of those who are upholding national unity and decency in this divisive times: President Trump Open, Proud, and Clapping Trump supporters
It’s a trying political time and men and women of sense will debate on the issues and actions.
Losers and trolls will continue to play tribal games and claim their opponents are racist douchebags. There’s still another team? Why, they must hate brown people or something! Surely the only logical thing to do is ruin friendships over politics! Yes, that’s the stuff!
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It’s a struggle talking about politics with my own brother and addressing or ignoring the slow progression of his white grievance. It is draining for both of us and I would have given up on any other person a while ago.
Political views have consequences, including losing friends for openly expressing them. The Trump camp had people wearing shirts that said “Fuck your feelings.” Welcome to the future where that brand of politics wins. You got exactly what you asked for.
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On November 27 2017 23:48 Plansix wrote:
It’s a struggle talking about politics with my own brother and addressing or ignoring the slow progression of his white grievance. It is draining for both of us and I would have given up on any other person a while ago.
Political views have consequences, including losing friends for openly expressing them. The Trump camp had people wearing shirts that said “Fuck your feelings.” Welcome to the future where that brand of politics wins. You got exactly what you asked for.
You’re deflecting to people that walk around saying “fuck your feelings” or volition-absolving “losing friends.” Author says they can’t be friends for supporting Trump (and we’ll say to any degree.) You’re the one making the choice in this scenario. We can talk about people who only want to talk politics or assign blame later. If it means some subjects become more taboo (ever hear of “politics and religion?,”) you can still decide to keep friends or push them out of your circle.
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On November 27 2017 23:45 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2017 15:23 Wulfey_LA wrote:On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:On November 27 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:
Bummer to hear that from a columnist I actually think is pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician. At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world. If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that. Non-exhaustive List of those responsible for national disunity: Liberals The Left Colleges The Media The Democrats The Swamp The Cities Ungrateful Minorities Black NFL Players The Intelligence Agencies Anyone living near the coasts Athiests Muslims Mexicans #NeverTrump Closet Trump supporters Elected Republican Legislators who can't pass the President's bills Exhaustive List of those who are upholding national unity and decency in this divisive times: President Trump Open, Proud, and Clapping Trump supporters It’s a trying political time and men and women of sense will debate on the issues and actions. Losers and trolls will continue to play tribal games and claim their opponents are racist douchebags. There’s still another team? Why, they must hate brown people or something! Surely the only logical thing to do is ruin friendships over politics! Yes, that’s the stuff!
Maybe they aren't racist, but they openly and knowingly support and vote for someone who vocally is, and has shown time and again that racism will be prevalent in how they conduct themselves in a position of power.
Maybe they don't hate people who can't afford healthcare, but they openly and knowingly support and vote for someone who is trying to create a system in which those people will suffer.
Maybe they don't hate education and those who provide it, but...
Imagine you are on Survivor. Your team is all voting to choose a team leader, and someone says "if you make me leader, I'll repeatedly kick the s*** out of Danglars, and make survivor great again!" and your friend passionately pipes up with "hell yeah I'll vote for this guy! He isn't like all the other team leaders who don't get things done!"
How will you feel and react?
If you'd be fine with that, then that's damn stupid and the trust and goodwill one associates with any degree of friendship is terribly misplaced.
Trump voters, by and large, might not have voted for his blatant racism etc, but to give a massive and arguably undeserved benefit of the doubt, they just didn't care. If someone just doesn't care about the damage their political positions and support does to me, why the hell would I consider them a friend?
The same argument extends to basic decency and having moral expectations of those you closely associate with in general.
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As always Danglars, you want be able embrace the most divisive form of politics without consequences. We are all only human and can only put in so much effort to understanding people on the other side.. The Trump brand of politics is division and grievance and there is only so much energy people can put in. Between being actively screwed over by the GOP and the day to day grind of life, some people have become too much effort. I put people on notice a long time ago that they best come prepared to justify remaining in my life if they openly supported Trump. And some folks have made it work. Most did not have not.
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On November 27 2017 23:40 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:On November 27 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:
Bummer to hear that from a columnist I actually think is pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician. At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world. If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that. Let me get this straight: You side with the person breaking personal relationships over politics and want to say the other side forced you to adopt such an idiotic stance? I don’t care if you want to blame Trump, Nazis, or lizard people for the status quo, I just thought you had more moral agency than this.
Aren't you the person that's been saying that Trump is The Left's fault and been hand waiving personal responsibility of people that voted for him?
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On November 28 2017 00:06 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2017 23:45 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 15:23 Wulfey_LA wrote:On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:On November 27 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:
Bummer to hear that from a columnist I actually think is pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician. At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world. If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that. Non-exhaustive List of those responsible for national disunity: Liberals The Left Colleges The Media The Democrats The Swamp The Cities Ungrateful Minorities Black NFL Players The Intelligence Agencies Anyone living near the coasts Athiests Muslims Mexicans #NeverTrump Closet Trump supporters Elected Republican Legislators who can't pass the President's bills Exhaustive List of those who are upholding national unity and decency in this divisive times: President Trump Open, Proud, and Clapping Trump supporters It’s a trying political time and men and women of sense will debate on the issues and actions. Losers and trolls will continue to play tribal games and claim their opponents are racist douchebags. There’s still another team? Why, they must hate brown people or something! Surely the only logical thing to do is ruin friendships over politics! Yes, that’s the stuff! Maybe they aren't racist, but they openly and knowingly support and vote for someone who vocally is, and has shown time and again that racism will be prevalent in how they conduct themselves in a position of power. Maybe they don't hate people who can't afford healthcare, but they openly and knowingly support and vote for someone who is trying to create a system in which those people will suffer. Maybe they don't hate education and those who provide it, but... Imagine you are on Survivor. Your team is all voting to choose a team leader, and someone says "if you make me leader, I'll repeatedly kick the s*** out of Danglars, and make survivor great again!" and your friend passionately pipes up with "hell yeah I'll vote for this guy! He isn't like all the other team leaders who don't get things done!" How will you feel and react? If you'd be fine with that, then that's damn stupid and the trust and goodwill one associates with any degree of friendship is terribly misplaced. Trump voters, by and large, might not have voted for his blatant racism etc, but to give a massive and arguably undeserved benefit of the doubt, they just didn't care. If someone just doesn't care about the damage their political positions and support does to me, why the hell would I consider them a friend? The same argument extends to basic decency and having moral expectations of those you closely associate with in general.
That ones on you, and society is the worse for it.
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On November 28 2017 00:10 Plansix wrote:
As always Danglars, you want be able embrace the most divisive form of politics without consequences. We are all only human and can only put in so much effort to understanding people on the other side.. The Trump brand of politics is division and grievance and there is only so much energy people can put in. Between being actively screwed over by the GOP and the day to day grind of life, some people have become too much effort. I put people on notice a long time ago that they best come prepared to justify remaining in my life if they openly supported Trump. And some folks have made it work. Most did not have not.
We are all human and must talk to each other’s and strike friendships across the political aisle because we don’t all individually or intra-Party have all the answers.
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On November 28 2017 00:22 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:10 Plansix wrote:
As always Danglars, you want be able embrace the most divisive form of politics without consequences. We are all only human and can only put in so much effort to understanding people on the other side.. The Trump brand of politics is division and grievance and there is only so much energy people can put in. Between being actively screwed over by the GOP and the day to day grind of life, some people have become too much effort. I put people on notice a long time ago that they best come prepared to justify remaining in my life if they openly supported Trump. And some folks have made it work. Most did not have not. We are all human and must talk to each other’s and strike friendships across the political aisle because we don’t all individually or intra-Party have all the answers.
No one is going to 'become friends to find the answers' with someone who wants to deport their friends and kick their wife off of health-care.
There are (some) Republicans who do not wish direct harm on our loved-ones. Sure go make friends with them, but their not the ones still supporting Trump or proclaiming his actions are the fault of the left in an attempt to absolve themselves of the consequences of their actions.
Voters bear responsibility for the actions of those they vote into power. Somewhat of a cornerstone of the democratic process.
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On November 28 2017 00:22 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:10 Plansix wrote:
As always Danglars, you want be able embrace the most divisive form of politics without consequences. We are all only human and can only put in so much effort to understanding people on the other side.. The Trump brand of politics is division and grievance and there is only so much energy people can put in. Between being actively screwed over by the GOP and the day to day grind of life, some people have become too much effort. I put people on notice a long time ago that they best come prepared to justify remaining in my life if they openly supported Trump. And some folks have made it work. Most did not have not. We are all human and must talk to each other’s and strike friendships across the political aisle because we don’t all individually or intra-Party have all the answers.
I grew up with an Irish Democrat for a father and my Republican grandfather. Politics were debated at thanksgiving every year. My own family spans the political spectrum. Trump and Bannon brought in a section of Americans to the GOP that are repugnant to even the Republicans in my family. When I reach across to the other side of politics, it is to people like Jeff Flake or Lindsey Grahm. People who say that voting for Moore is a bridge to far and its better to vote for a Democrat than let him into the senate.
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Losing friends over support of a candidate who actually won the election sounds like a totally non-divisive thing. Umm ... yeah. I really don't understand people who think they are making the world a better place by acting immature, confrontational and / or self-absorbed. It's really not how progress works, guys. Comparing Trump to the Golden Dawn? What the hell?
Here's a tip for you, if you possess any verbal intelligence and you think Trump is THAT BAD you should be able to slowly convince them to nudge closer to your position or at least accept it. What you are doing makes you appear brainwashed. He won the fucking election.
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On November 28 2017 00:11 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2017 23:40 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 15:10 NewSunshine wrote:On November 27 2017 14:06 Danglars wrote:On November 27 2017 11:59 doomdonker wrote:On November 27 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:
Bummer to hear that from a columnist I actually think is pretty good. I don't think there's anything wrong with his statement. Its not a binary statement where if you don't support Trump, you support the Democratic Party. You can still support, say, Mike Pence or choose some other conservative politician. At this point, you're dumber than a sack of bricks if you STILL support Trump. We're talking about a man who clearly understands little about the world, who barely does his job, is obsessed with the media instead of America, doesn't give a shit about the people he specifically campaigned for, is flipflopping around what he campaigned for and is busy trying enrich himself and his family through the most powerful office in the world. If you look at all of this and still think "fake news", there's nothing to talk to you about because you're living in a different reality. He's an utter legislative failure whose only achievement is getting a SC appointed, despite having majorities in both the house and senate. Which wasn't even his success but rather McConnell pulling the strings. You can't even say that he's like Jimmy Carter either because Trump is objectively a terrible person. It's a very dangerous thing to declare there is only one opinion left to have on the situation, and to ruin personal friendships over politics. I still think he's worthy of support on some issues and opposition on others. He has helpfully made great progress bringing attention to some of society's discarded topics (in ways where polite discourse just gets dismissed, you racist bigots). If you declare there is no reason to support him whatsoever and will politicize your interpersonal friendships, there's less reason to hope for a period of national healing and unity in the future. Talk to the other side and don't rely on the right or left's propaganda to color your judgments. It's fine to preach healing and unity, but you're choosing the wrong person to blame. The blame lies with the person actively sowing the damage and the disunity. The blame lies with the person who launches a social media war against anyone and everyone who says things he disagrees with. The blame lies with the person who calls for brown people to be fired when they make a statement about racism, and conveniently ignores white people who do the same. The blame lies with the person who campaigned on a wall, to keep the rapists out of our country, that the rapists would pay for. The blame lies with the man who sides with a sex offender and pedophile, silencing women when it's convenient for him politically. The blame lies with the person who says he'll drain the swamp, then hires people who are even deeper in companies' pockets, threatening our free speech. You're absolving the president of a lot of responsibility in what he has done when you think "the left" is to blame for everything. He's gotten where he is by sowing chaos and discord among Americans, inciting and encouraging hate crimes and marginalizing people who just want to be treated the same as you. He has a very loud mouth, and people like you listen to him. Consider that. Let me get this straight: You side with the person breaking personal relationships over politics and want to say the other side forced you to adopt such an idiotic stance? I don’t care if you want to blame Trump, Nazis, or lizard people for the status quo, I just thought you had more moral agency than this. Aren't you the person that's been saying that Trump is The Left's fault and been hand waiving personal responsibility of people that voted for him?
So this was all in reaction to the tweet by a NYT columnist. I wonder if you have a response to that tweet. Agree/disagree? You can’t be friends with people of an opposing political opinion if it involves supporting Trump?
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I'm not sure in what concrete way society is made worse by people rejecting individual friendships based on extreme political differences. It just seems like kind of a natural thing to do for me.
Isn't there also some friction between this point and the common rightwing talking point that people from some other cultures won't be able to integrate into our societies because they are too conservative?
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EPT
